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top 200 commentsshow 500

[–]Flaxmoore 120 points121 points ago

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Wow...

Do a little looking at that guy's medal rack.

Order of Berlin, for taking part in the Berlin invasion. 20 years a veteran- medals for 10, 15 and 20. Liberation of either Belgrade or Vienna- can't quite tell. Looks like maybe their Courage medal, as well.

Guy was THERE.

[–]ofd25 12 points13 points ago

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There is a blur of like red and yellow. How can you possibly name that many medals from just that? You literally can't see anything else...

[–]DownWithADD 28 points29 points ago

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Replace the "4" in the URL with a "3". :)

[–]yumcax 18 points19 points ago

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[–]ofd25 8 points9 points ago

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Gratzi!

[–]timatom 5 points6 points ago

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I think it's part of a set, and the other pics may have a better view.

[–]TheCannon 700 points701 points ago

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My Grandpa was a veteran of the European Theater during WWII, including the beach landings on D-Day.

He died at the age of 85. A few years before he went, he saw Saving Private Ryan. When I asked him what he thought, he said he spent a good portion of the movie fighting tears. I asked him what it was about the film that caused him so much difficulty, and all he had to say was that "it never goes away".

[–]soothfast 223 points224 points ago

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My husband works in the film industry. He was doing some work on original D-day footage held by the imperial war museum. The stuff that never gets shown in public and is more used for research purposes. He said that even in black and white it was horrific. Landing craft exploding in body parts etc. Private Ryan is the closest a film has come to depicting the reality. But even then, the reality was more shocking.

[–]Animal40160 104 points105 points ago

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I have always wanted to view some of those old rarely seen combat films.

[–]Gamer_pyle 80 points81 points ago*

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Yea, that kinda stuff will probably never be released to the general public.

Closest you'll get for WW2 is that HD collection.

It's still crazy to see some of the footage...

[–]maxfrank 282 points283 points ago

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It's a weird sentiment that they even can hold something like that from the general public. Are they the protectors of history? Rubbing away the icky parts of life so the general public shouldn't be bothered with seeing what actually transpired.

[–]Gamer_pyle 113 points114 points ago

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You make a very interesting point. And furthermore, who are "they" that have decided we are not to watch this footage? Are they not elected officials supposed to represent us? And are they not human just like us?

If they are us, how is it they can deem things either good or bad for us without actually asking us?

[–]farkdog 52 points53 points ago

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Most of this stuff is available - you simply need to make an appointment to go see the material.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points ago

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I've actually seen some of it; My great grandfather was a veteran in World War 1; Canadian at Vimy Ridge. I have so many books on the topic, but nothing compared to what I saw.

We aren't a war family or anything, but it affected me so deeply and I had so much respect for my grandfather that we were both in tears while we watched most of it.

Speak with a local museum, even. A lot of them actually have some excellent material, or will be able to make the proper connections. It might be more difficult these days though.

[–]Sle 12 points13 points ago

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Actually the stuff in the Imperial war museum is freely available, you just have to go in and ask. I managed to get footage of San Marino for a friend of a friend quite easily.

[–]EmpressK 33 points34 points ago

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I'm pretty sure it's more for the families. All those "body parts" still have living friends and relatives.

[–]liveart 24 points25 points ago

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What about the modern day soldiers and their families? Don't you think they have a right to know what it is they're getting into?

[–]papasconqueso 34 points35 points ago

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Before I even joined the Army I made it a point to view every graphic picture of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan injured, blown up, on fire, missing limbs etc. and to view every graphic piece of film I could, including the beheading of various reporters and IED blasts. I did this specifically to reconcile the reality of war with myself, and to decide whether I could risk all of what I saw in order to take a job that my family desperately needed. My love for my family and my need to provide for them overcame my fears of all I saw. Nonetheless I think it is very important to all modern day soldiers to view the NSFL things because it is a reality they must reconcile with themselves. I am not half as shaken up by what I saw here in Iraq as I would have been have I not viewed those things.

tl;dr: We do have a right to see what we are getting ourselves into, and we also have a desperate need for it.

[–]f-dapolice 54 points55 points ago

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My grandfather was in a unit (forgot which one) which landed on D-Day. He got dysentary (pretty oregon trail stuff) and wasn't able to participate in the landing. His entire unit was killed.

When he recovered, he spent the rest of his time in Europe on the unit that liberated concentration camps just after the Nazis had abandoned them.

He never spoke of the war, ever... I can't imagine how it affected him. His only outward emotion I saw was when East/West Germany reunified, and he commented that he hopes the evils of the past aren't repeated.

I have a picture of him from an army camp in New Orleans just before him and all the other young guys in his unit were shipped off to Europe. They're 18 year old kids, doing shots and smoking cigars. The haunting part is I know every person in that picture was killed not long after except my grandfather, and to look at it in that regard is incredibly sad.... 18 year old kids, trying to enjoy what last moments they may have.

[–]escent 41 points42 points ago

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My grandfather was the same way about the war - he never spoke of it. Apparently he received a medal and he always claimed that he had "accepted it for a friend" and I believed him as a child. I remember mentioning it to my mother a few years ago and she set me straight. The medal was his, he just didn't like talking about it that much.

He was a pilot, though. He did partake in D-Day, just up in the air. I really wish he were still alive so I could ask him about it, about him, now that I'm "old enough." Slightly teary now. I miss the man.

[–]ColorMute 5 points6 points ago

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My Grandfather also flew on D-day, he was a B-24 co-pilot, flew 69 missions throughout WWII, got shot down 3 times, once behind enemy lines. Never talked about the war, always just said it was a time he wished to forget. I remember watching "Memphis Belle" with him when I was a kid, he just sat there tight lipped and face clenched till it was over then walked out of the room.

He was pretty famous in his hometown of Kutztown because on the day before he was to be discharged from the Air Force he stole his plane from the air base and followed the river North 3 hours back to Kutztown where he proceeded to "buzz" the town for 30 minutes. Old timers still talk about how he flew so low that he tore shingles off the houses. By the time the Air Force realized what had happened he had already been discharged, he was a legend.

[–]polychromie 4 points5 points ago

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Mine too--he never talked about it, for the rest of his life. All I know is that he was in Japan, and that he threw away all of his uniforms and whatnot the minute he could.

And now my brother is at West Point... I don't even want to think about what he's going to have to do when he graduates.

[–]od_9 3 points4 points ago

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My uncle was a Sargent in the 2nd Ranger Battalion of the 29th Infantry division on D-Day. He never spoke about it except one time he showed me a yearbook of sorts from his group and went through the pages telling me where each one died. He got through D-Day essentially uninjured, but got shot and paralyzed from the waist down in a latter engagement (second battle of the bugle?) which kinda forced him out of the army.

Here's the after action report: http://29infantrydivision.org/WWII-Documents/29th_Division-115th_Regiment-After_Action_report-44-June.html

http://29infantrydivision.org/They_did_D-Day/They_did_d-day-001.htm

[–]TheHoboFish 113 points114 points ago

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Similar story: an old neighbor of mine was stationed on one of the ships that loaded up the transport boats on D-Day. After it all started he refused to send any more troops to the shore, and his officer ordered him to keep loading the boats at gunpoint. He walked out of Saving Private Ryan almost as soon as it started because he couldn't stand to see what happened to the men he sent off.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]NomadofExile 16 points17 points ago

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It's one of those questions that will never get answered (except in an alternate universe). Sometimes a "failed assault" turns into "resounding success" because orders were ignored because they were wrong, or followed when they were wrong, or misunderstood. History is loaded with these examples.

[–]Obidom 68 points69 points ago

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My grandfather was with the para's and participated in Operation Market Garden, I once got him to talk about it and after he told me about fighting in the streets and a mortar landing in front of him and taking his friends face off and the look I saw on his face I did not ask again, He suffered nightmares for 50 years until he died of a heart attack pushing his car home when all he needed to do was tighten the battery terminal :(

[–]dontgimmenobullshit 49 points50 points ago

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My grandfather wrote his battlefield will in France in 1916. The will is dated a few days after his 20th birthday. His Canadian battalion all wrote these wills just before being deployed to the front for the first time.

He was one of the "lucky" ones. He suffered severe mortar wounds and almost lost his leg. One of the few things he talked about was fighting the surgeons who wanted to amputate. He won that battle but limped for the rest of his days. And my grandmother picked shrapnel out of his wound sites periodically for many years afterwards.

He did tell her a little about what happened the day he was wounded. It was during one of the many Somme battles. The mortar landed behind them just as they went over the top of the trench. He told her he lay in the muck for hours, back and buttocks shredded and one leg hanging by skin. During those hours, he said, all he knew was that he was surrounded by, and wearing, the remains of his friends and a strange peace stole over him as he waited for death. He said that was the last peace he'd ever known.

My father remembers the nightmares. He remembers the sound of shrapnel tinking into a bowl as my grandmother removed the bits that migrated up through the tissue over the years. My father remembers the scars, and the fist-sized hole in my grandfather's buttock.

I remember the day my grandfather died, in 1974. I came home and found my father crying. My gramps had been acting strangely, telling my grandmother he loved her and apologizing for whatever he felt he had to apologize for. That day, he went to city hall to put his affairs in order. He got that done and left the building, walked halfway down the steps and dropped dead of a heart attack. The mounted police officer who happened to witness the whole thing said it looked like he was dead before he hit the ground.

[–]KING246 10 points11 points ago

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you're grandfather is hard as fuck. (army lingo)

[–]bowery_boy 156 points157 points ago

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My grandfather said SPR wasn't realistic enough and nothing could replicate the horror

[–]TheCannon 174 points175 points ago

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Of course there is no way to replicate the horrors of war, but just about anything can trigger an emotional response.

I, for one, cannot imagine the shit these guys went through or what emotional scars they wore for the vast majority of their lives.

[–]IMasturbateToMyself 151 points152 points ago

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The scariest thing that happened in my petty little life was playing Amnesia.

[–]Theonenerd 67 points68 points ago

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Same for me and I'm really fucking glad that's the case.

[–]Tofuboy 42 points43 points ago

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Day[9]'s other Reddit account found.

[–]GumbySloth 57 points58 points ago

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A friend of my fathers recently passed away from an alcoholism-related disease. He did 3 tours of Vietnam with the SAS. Really fucked him up. His coping mechanism after he got back was to be drunk pretty much 24/7. It eventually killed him a few months ago. Really sad, war just rips the spirit out of guys.

[–]ours 58 points59 points ago

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The Australian and New Zealand SAS killed at least 492 and as many as 598 and losing only two men killed in action and three fatalities from friendly fire.

Wow.

[–]bracobama 32 points33 points ago

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Yeah our SAS is pretty top notch.

[–][deleted] 48 points49 points ago

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Thy really are. And those accents.. Lulls the enemy into a sense of safety.

[–]CroSSGunS 2 points3 points ago

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Our SAS are the best SAS, including the English.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points ago

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you definitely have more sass

[–]TipyTheFertile 23 points24 points ago

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does this mean that the SAS killed more SAS than their enemies?

[–]ours 5 points6 points ago

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That comes from being such badasses I guess. Only SAS can inflict significant casualties to SAS.

That or crappy weather and them going "meh, let's do it anyway" from what I've read of their history. Sandstorm? Jump anyway, 50% casualties on first mission. Arctic storm? Chopper in anyway, change mind, chopper out and lose 2 out of 3 choppers.

They do dare.

[–]justarandomperson123 41 points42 points ago

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I share your feelings. For some, war is shit. For some, it's the shit.

Two stories:

My uncle and father fought in the WWII against Russians. In such "small scale" wars known here in Finland (just a minor country, where Nokia is from. Yes, it is that "small" phone company) as "Winter War" and "Continuation War".

My uncle was wounded badly in the head, survived for about 25 years after the war (was able to work), then died in DUI (alcohol related) car accident.

My father just had his 88th birthday. Saw pretty bad shit between ages 16 and 21. Fought in the same regiment as famous Lauri Törni a.k.a. Larry Thorne. (Told me that he saw him once IRL, and I know, regiments are big units, so it was quite coincidence...). Survived both wars, sometimes barely, sometimes by skill and sometimes by blind luck. Still lives. Has 5 children. Multiple grandchildren (e.g. my son).

So, I am sad for my uncle (never saw him, died before I was born), and on the other hand, glad that my father was able to put that shit behind. Two different sides of the same ol' coin.

Just my two cents.

[–]Pride_Of_Scotland 9 points10 points ago

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I said this yesterday, but I'll say it again- Many make it home, but few ever come back home.

[–]DonAlonzo 35 points36 points ago

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I've heard Full Metal Jacket brings Veterans to tears.

[–]itsactuallynot 103 points104 points ago

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My dad was watching it in the theater. During the scene where the Marines are on patrol in Hue City, he involuntarily said "Oh shit!" the instant we see a pink children's toy in the middle of the rubble. Then, as the Marine walks over to pick it up: "No no no no no!"

He left the theater soon after.

[–]Zushii 15 points16 points ago

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That's my reaction when I watch movies like that and I'm no soldier.

[–]Slick37c 28 points29 points ago

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BITCH! DON'T GO IN DAT TUNNEL! YOU STUPID!?

[–]Dcoil1 12 points13 points ago

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"Thanks, Ollie."

[–]Spoonofdarkness 14 points15 points ago

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Most of the kids that I've seen go through junior rotc in school can't wait to join the military because of "how awesome full metal jacket is."

I always try to instill in them the concept that all the "funny, bad language" from the first half is only a small part of war. They never seem to grasp the severity of the post-boot camp portion of the movie.

[–]funkstrong 14 points15 points ago

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My grandpa landed on Omaha beach on D-day and there was no way in hell he'd go near that movie.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points ago

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Great-Grand father was the same. It's tragic how much suffering those men endured and carried with them... They are heroes one way or another.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points ago

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My Granddad was in the RAF in the UK fighting during the Battle of Britain. Some of the stories he told were heartbreaking. He always got a bit misty eyed at films depicting the war.

[–]stooney 37 points38 points ago

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My great grandfather was a German SA, forced against his own will. He fought for four years, got shot a few times, and still had to fight. He even fought in Stalingrad. My grandmother went to the movie theater, and usually before the show started they would have updates of the war. She saw my great grandfather marching his way to Stalingrad... she never went to a movie theater again. Upon my great grandfathers return of four years of fighting and being wounded several times, SS agents gathered all the returning soldiers and held a trial for them. Their was about 200 soldiers in all they hung, and it all happened on someones farm. My great grandfathers charges was stealing a pack of cigarettes. After all the soldiers were hung, the farmer was horrified, but had it in him to dig every soldier a separate grave. Upon coming to my great grandfather, he saw he had a ring on. It was his wedding ring, and inside the ring was his wives named engraved, and was returned to her. My great grandfathers own people killed him for 'not dying for Hitler'. Sad isn't it?

[–]waffleburner 4 points5 points ago

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Most war stories I read about peoples' grandfathers is that they got lucky and barely got away with their lives. Or that all of their friends died. That's tragic that your great grandfather was one of the unlucky ones who had to be killed for show in order to appease Hitler and provide a scapegoat for a failed operation.

I'm sorry. I can hardly imagine what that would've been like.

[–]SuitUp 1161 points1162 points ago

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The sacrifice the people of Eastern Europe and Russia overall gave in the Second World War is invaluable. It is a crime that we don't acknowledge this enough in our school systems when educating the youth about these horrific events. This picture speaks for itself.

[–]kimchifart 361 points362 points ago

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Russia lost 14% of its population during WWII

[–]kenzie0201 137 points138 points ago

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Poland was pretty similar, its hard to imagine what it would be like if just over 1 in 10 of the people you know are going to die in a war.

[–]username103 132 points133 points ago

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The city of Warsaw had more dead than the total casualties of the US and the UK.

And if you look at this table on wikipedia it lists 16% for PL

[–]kenzie0201 39 points40 points ago

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I was amazed at how developed Warsaw is in spite of being almost completely destroyed.

[–]username103 30 points31 points ago

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It's a shame that we'll never be able to see this Warsaw

[–]JayZeus 28 points29 points ago

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But you can see this Warsaw everyday :)

[–]billyblaze 8 points9 points ago

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Looks like Gotham

[–]kenzie0201 11 points12 points ago

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There is a place that I think still has this feel to it, Kraków

[–]anoraq 5 points6 points ago

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Warsaw's Old City is to a large extent rebuilt, some of it even with the original stone rubble.

[–]JSLEnterprises 7 points8 points ago

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and a lot of it was caused by the red army surprisingly.

[–]okurok 28 points29 points ago

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Belarus lost about 25% of it's population, being in the middle of action, like Poland

[–]DIGGYRULES 69 points70 points ago

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Textbooks are biased. That's a fact. I'm sure they are biased in Russia as well. The real truth is that there is very limited time in which to teach history. I have 48 minutes per day (per class) to try to teach American History from pre-exploration through Reconstruction. Add in all of the times I have to stop teaching the curriculum and focus on Patriot's Day, Constitution Day, Freedom Week, Black History Month, Veteran's Day, Career Exploration week, etc. etc. etc. and it is next to impossible to teach the kids more than a TINY fraction.

The best I can do...and what I STRIVE to do every single day...is to create enough interest in the subject to encourage students to go out and seek answers and facts for themselves.

At the end of the day, isn't that what education is really all about? Learning that there are 2 sides to every argument? For every glorious victory, somebody suffered a heartbreaking defeat? My brave patriots are your bloody tyrants.

We teachers can only try our best to encourage an open and inquisitive mind.

[–]Comedian70 144 points145 points ago

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I'm 41 and went to American public schools, graduating HS in 88'. I basically grew up with Reagan telling us every day about the bad ol' USSR. It wasn't until 92' or so that I got into White Wolf's World of Darkness games line and read Rage Across Russia. That book spends a great deal of time providing historical and cultural background on Russia before it resets the whole thing in terms of the game environment. It wasn't until I read that book that I finally learned about the scale of WW2 on the Eastern front. About the amount of lives lost. About the battle of Kursk. About the eternal flames burning in every village that was utterly destroyed, it's people killed down to the last child. I was never one who bought into all the stupid propaganda we were inundated with in the 80's. (Fuck Stallone, fuck Chuck Norris, and fuck a whole lot of the assholes who made Red Dawn.) But I never realized what the Russians had gone through until a FUCKING GAME COMPANY finally educated me.

[–]Krusmir 17 points18 points ago

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It might be a shame, but White Wolf has taught me about history than many courses in high school and non specialized courses in college.
Hell, I passed most courses remembering the factual parts of White Wolf books.

One specially creepy yet accurate book about WWI (not II) is Wraith The Great War. Some quotes and anecdotes of the book still creep me out to this day and still reminds me how brutal WWI was.

[–]MrJay235 746 points747 points ago

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In America, we were too busy explaining how we saved the day to focus on Russia's contribution... /shame

[–]lotushusker 481 points482 points ago

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or maybe, most of the textbooks are based on writers/info from the cold war area where they de-humanize anything from the big red menace.

[–]XTC-FTW 401 points402 points ago*

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I recently took a course in Russian history under Stalin's regime, it's honestly amazing what these soliders went through, they were never allowed to retreat or fall back and if they did they were shot by their own officers... if they got lost from their group they were hung because deserting and they were sent into many pointless battles dying,

Lest we forget

[–]BroadStreetElite 204 points205 points ago

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Not to mention the number of Soviet civilians who fought in the war effort as well, no nation lost more people in that war than the Soviet Union, its upwards of 20 million people which is hard to even think about.

[–]Moxie1 95 points96 points ago

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The Russian partisans were a dreadful drain on the Wehrmacht. German patrols dreaded being captured by Russian irregulars.

[–]beyondtherapy 49 points50 points ago

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I wrote a final paper on this in my history course, its arguable that without partisans the Wehrmacht would have gotten way further into the Soviet Union and fucked up a lot more shit than they did.

[–]syuk 27 points28 points ago

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Could we read it please? I am ignorant of most of the Russian irregular contribution. It was never really taught when I was at school either (GCSE, England).

[–]SleepyBoy 9 points10 points ago

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What were the Russian Partisans?

[–]throwaway19111 34 points35 points ago

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People conducting guerilla warfare well behind enemy lines. In some ways, think the Iraqi Insurgency, with less suicide.

The Nazi's rolled across Eastern Europe, the now conquered people didn't like that. So many of them resorted to attacking supply lines, small groups of soldiers, train lines, and anything else they could damage. The Nazi's, of course, killed many random civilians in retaliation and to try to scare them into stopping.

More info on Wikipedia: Link

[–]lcmt 58 points59 points ago

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my Grandpa was one of the Partisans.

he was only 19 when the Nazis occupied his village. he had a choice – to live quietly under the Germans, or to fight for his country as a Partisan. he never spoke of the war, but I know from my Grandma that he and his guerilla comrades derailed trains and attacked Luftwaffe airfields. they lived in constant fear that they could be uncovered (it meant death sentence for them).

when that lands was liberated, Grandpa was awarded with medals and orders.

until the end of his life he regretted that he had to kill people, and some of them weren't even bad guys – they were regular Germans forced by Nazis to fight against us.

one of my few memories about him – we were visiting the monument dedicated to his fallen comrades, and he cried.

I am proud of him.

PS I'm really sorry for my poor English

[–]andrewthemexican 20 points21 points ago*

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No no, your English was just fine.

Someone must be cutting some onions here in the apartment or something.

[–]babbish 16 points17 points ago

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War sucks no matter what side you're on.

[–]xavieradde 140 points141 points ago

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Also don't forget, that there are 2 sides of every story - they weren't only defending their nation - WWII was a clash of titans, with Stalin being the one that didn't care how much resources he sacrifices. People from Eastern Europe or Finland will never even consider remembering him as a good guy who won with Hitler - he and his people will always be held responsible for everything from famine in Ukraine (6mln dead?), through complete chaos wherever red army showed, to Gulags and mass murdering of finest native people.

[–]TMoneytron 43 points44 points ago*

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Thanks for saying this. A lot of people from Ukraine welcomed the Germans. I almost chuckled, but then felt bad, when in Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands he described a scene at a river crossing where the Polish were fleeing the USSR towards the Germans and the Jews were running to get away from said Germans.

Don't forget the sacrifice of these soldiers. But it's not as black and white as people make it out to be. I don't think anyone wanted the rest of Europe under Stalin's thumb. He did enough to taint reputations of formerly prosperous countries.

EDIT: For anyone who would like to see a movie that expresses a lot of this serious ambiguity you should watch "Europa Europa". It basically replicates the exact same river crossing scene I mentioned above. It's a really great German movie where a Jewish boy pretends he's not Jewish to survive in the Hitler youth, after being captured and forced to be a Cosmnonot. The amount of allegiance flipping almost made my head explode. Apparently, it's a true story as well.

[–]totally_not_a_zombie 11 points12 points ago

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Indeed, not as black and white.

Although in Slovakia, we hated the Nazis and were thankful for the red army heroes, it wasn't all that great.

Nazis may have been occupying us, but they were usually not that harsh to simple people (at least to non-Jews). They were pretty civilized after all. The soviets, on the other hand, were rather wild and barbaric in their ways. Violently taking everything they wanted along the way, robbing homes and forcing the owners to sleep on the ground, enjoying the comfort of beds with the words "we are rescuing you from the Nazis, you should give us whatever we want and thank us".

In the end, they are still heroes. But it's not all that black and white.

[–]impablomations 5 points6 points ago

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Thats pretty much how I heard it from my GF's father (he was Polish).

He hated the Russians even more than the Germans. When the Germans occupied his town it was pretty much business as usual "don't fuck with us and we won't fuck with you", when the Russians 'liberated' them - it was wholesale rape & robbery. His family fled Poland not to escape the Germans, but to escape the Russians. Of 2 adults and 4 children, only 1 adult and 2 children made it to England.

He said the town he grew up in is now part of Russia.

That was the only time he would ever talk about his childhood in Poland and his families escape. My GF thinks Russian soldiers did something to his mother & grandmother but he would never talk about it.

[–]Laerpni 46 points47 points ago*

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Stalin's own son, Yakov, was captured and when the Germans offered to exchange him for German officials Stalin refused because he surrendered and the official policy of the Soviet Union was that Soviet soldiers who surrendered were declared enemies of the state.

[–]dukwbutter 2 points3 points ago

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did not know.

[–]Cosmic_Charlie 41 points42 points ago

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I taught a Soviet history course (*) a couple years ago. I prefaced the course with a sad joke: The Russian people are almost always being killed by their leaders. Every now and then, you just change the leaders.

(*) I'm no expert, I was assigned by the department to fill in for a Professor who had gotten horribly sick. Rough semester that was.

[–]Eoiny 59 points60 points ago

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Read Antony Beevor's Stalingrad if you get the chance. Any Russian soldier wounded in the hand or the foot was often assumed to have inflicted the wound on himself and was therefore summarily executed.

In the Battle of Stalingrad, there were several large bands of wounded Russian soldiers caught between the opposing Nazi and Soviet armies, who faced execution of they were captured by either side. Which is a fucking insane situation, when you think about it.

[–]darkbird22 72 points73 points ago

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I asked my grandfather questions once about the Stalingrad after the movie "enemy at the gates" He actually fought at Stalingrad and went all the way to Berlin.

Where the movie was wrong :

The battle was in 1943 when the ammo wasn't a problem

They had assault rifles ppshs

He wasn't aware about executions

They were fighting for their own land and were very motivated

Strafniki (penal battalions) were treated better than the movie's portrayal

[–]val_kyrie 39 points40 points ago

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My grandfather fought there too, on the German side. He won't speak about the war at all.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points ago

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Understandably. I used to work with old pesons (germans), and it always gave me shivers when one of them proudly talked about his war adventures.

The majority of them is like your grandfather though, I think.

[–]Quisquilian 7 points8 points ago

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My grandfather (mother's side) was 16 when he was conscripted. There are two stories he told me, and I never asked for more, because those two times were the only occasions on which I saw my grandfather cry, and as a kid I didn't know how to handle that. He was shot twice and a POW in the USSR. He was caught when he was separated from his unit in a wood, still suffering from the badly patched up first gunshot wound, happened upon another kid fighting for the soviet army, and wasn't able to shoot him. He said that the soviet kid reminded him of his brother and looked even younger than 16. When I asked him how all this ended, he told me of his time as a soviet POW and especially about the group of women who smuggled Christmas trees and soup into the camp for the German and Austrian POWs, and spoons and shoes. He said that they made him feel human again. My grandfather was ashamed for the rest of his life because he felt he had failed his fatherland. He never managed to completely leave his childhood indoctrination behind. At the same time, he refused to play any game with me that was even tangentially concerned with war. He was generally inconsistent and held paradoxically opposite opinions about the Nazi era. My grandmother (mother's side, too) was in the BDM, but that was more or less mandatory. She claimed until she died that she had no clue what was happening. She organised parties for soldiers and later helped with food distributions, but claims that she never knew of the uglier side of Nazism. I don't know if I believe that, but then again she was 19 when the war ended, and had been responsible for her two younger sisters since she had been 15, as her mother died at the beginning of the war of some unrelated illness and her father died early on the eastern front, so perhaps she was just to busy (and naive) to really think about her life.

The other side of my family was active in the resistance. My father's grandfather was summarily executed for printing anti-Nazi pamphlets in 1943. He was the owner of the only printing press in his area, and the local schoolmaster. My father's aunt was sent to a concentration camp because she wouldn't shut up about the lynching of young deserters she witnessed one day. We have no idea what happened to her. My father's mother is still angry about the people in her village, and how they tried to act as if nothing had happened after the war. She still distinctly remembers the neighbours trying to invite her mother and her for supper to talk about the "accidents" and "tragedies" her family suffered. Her best friend when she was a small child was a Jewish girl. Officially, she "emigrated", but my grandmother thinks she remembers when the local police came to take the family away. She is the only one in my family who experienced the Nazi era and is still alive, but she was so young then, the above is pretty much all she really remembers.

So I guess I have both in my ancestry - old people who were in a strange manner semi-proud and ashamed of the times simultaneously, and staunch resistance fighters. Coincidentally, my girlfriends family is similar. Her father's family were opposed to the Nazi regime, while her mother's were opportunists and bettered their social standing.

[–]Darko33 5 points6 points ago

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I learned about Pavlov's House in that book. Crazy stuff.

[–]Airazz 15 points16 points ago

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Well, since my own country was occupied by those soldiers, I don't think that they are so amazing. Really, most of them were just plain douchebags, stealing whatever they can on their way.

[–][deleted] 83 points84 points ago

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Lest we forget*

[–]chaotic2050 23 points24 points ago

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But at the least, some people forget.

[–]dustyrhoades 19 points20 points ago

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they were never allowed to retreat or fall back and if they did they were shot by their own officers... if they got lost from their group they were hung because deserting and they were sent into many pointless battles dying

Which is at least part of the reason we were so adamantly opposed to the Soviet Union after the war. They were led by some vicious brutal sons of bitches.

[–]InterPunct 31 points32 points ago

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I grew up in the US and went to public schools during the height of the cold war and we learned about Russia's incredible sacrifices in WW-II.

[–]radicallymoderate 15 points16 points ago

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Me too.

[–]fuglystick 15 points16 points ago

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Get on board, this is Reddit--"American schools suck; ergo, Americans are idiots." Don't deviate from the script.

[–]indiejesus 6 points7 points ago

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What about Poland's contribution in both World War's, you will be surprised by the figures. No one ever seems to mention them.

[–]rbbdrooger 45 points46 points ago

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The fact that the US and the Sovjet Union became arch enemies during the decades after WWII certainly didn't help with that. I'm pretty sure Russian kids weren't being told about the heroics of American soldiers either.

[–]snottlebocket 32 points33 points ago

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What they should be teaching you is how America wasn't even particularly interested in intervening until it became clear that the war would eventually reach American shores if the allies failed to secure victory.

Rather a lot of European and non European nations committed long before the Americans did.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points ago

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Not sure who your "America" is, here. At the start of the war, some Americans didn't want to become involved, and some (like Roosevelt) did. And Roosevelt did have us intervening long before our formal entry into the war.

[–]inthegarden5 45 points46 points ago

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Having sent millions of men to the useless bloodbath that was WWI, seen the Treaty of Versailles push Germany towards fascism, and watched Stalin kill millions through starvation (Ukraine) and the gulag, many americans didn't see the point of getting involved in other in a continuing series of European wars (Napoleon, Bismarck, WWi, etc).
As for European nations - of course they got involved, they didn't really have a choice.
Most if not all non-European nations involved early in the war were tied in one way or the other to UK - Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, etc.
Not to mention that some of these nations (and many others) had a completely different war to be worrying about: Japan invaded Manchuria before Germany invaded Poland.

[–]Onatel 8 points9 points ago

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You're forgetting things like lend-lease and various sanctions on belligerents that Roosevelt enacted. True the majority of US civilians didn't want to get involved, but it largely didn't concern them. As mentioned already, the counties that were not threatened that got involved were mostly tied to countries that were threatened, like Canada and India were tied to the UK.

[–]norembo 11 points12 points ago

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well, my grandfather was an ordinary Lithuanian who was put in a concentration camp by the Russians. So I am not thankful for their contribution. War is hell.

[–]schabrackentapir 16 points17 points ago

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Right in this moment, browsing Reddit keeps me from finishing my paper about the reason why the USA have such a crooked image of WW2 in Eastern Europe. It's a bit complicated, but I'll try to keep it short:

Directly after WW2, american historians tried to maintain as much information as possible about the war to write an official history. Interrogations with german soldiers helped much, so as soon as january 1946, the "Operational History (German) Section" was founded. This was a section of about 300 ex-Wehrmacht-officers, led by the former General Franz Halder who was still facing the menace to be trialed in Nuremberg. This Section wrote over 2000 manuscripts of the events they had survived in the war which were directly used by the US Army to a) write their official history and b) train US soldiers for the possible experience of a war in Russia. By the year 1953, every Army Junior Leader had a small book handed out with advise on how to survive and fight as small groups in the soviet regions.

By that time, the west germans were no more enemies, but allies against the enemy Soviet Union, or, to quote William S. Nye: „They [The germans] have been motivated mainly by professional interest and by the desire to promote western soiidarity and mutual defense.”

[–]prof_doxin 16 points17 points ago

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Russia did some bad things to Poland (and others). Let's tell the whole story.

[–]festtt 2 points3 points ago

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While we're at it, let's drop "Russia" all together. It's the Soviet Union. Half the population was not Russian, and among them were also heroes and villains and normal people.

[–]bobwhiz 23 points24 points ago

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Who would the Germans rather give themselves over to at the end of the war? The US or the Russians?

The Russians paid such a high price that rape was a big part of what they did to exact revenge, and no German unarmed man was left alive... most died when they surrendered to Russians.

War is hell.

[–]Gsicht 30 points31 points ago

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Who is "we"? I learned all about this in school.

[–]johnconnor8100 18 points19 points ago

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True Russia's people gave a great sacrifice

[–]GrooveCombo 130 points131 points ago

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The horrors he must have witnessed.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points ago

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Yeah, many people don't know how horrendous the Soviet people struggled during WW2. It's said that they were so unsupplied on the Eastern Front that it was one rifle between every two men.

Everyone suffered during these times, but the Soviets and Chinese had it the worst.

[–]Mako_Eyes 77 points78 points ago

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Over 12 million Soviet civilians died as a direct result of WW2. That's civilians, mind you. The military losses account for over 8 million more, putting the total Soviet population loss at over 26 million people.

Ever since I learned this in college, I wondered why they never mentioned this during the many occasions where we studied WW2 in grade school. All we heard about was the Jews. I don't mean to downplay the terrible tragedies that the Jewish people went through in the Holocaust, but we often forget that there were a lot of other people suffering at that time in history.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]viralizate 5 points6 points ago

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Sad but interesting point.

[–]filthgrinder 62 points63 points ago

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Is there some story we can read about him and finding this tank? Would be interesting.

[–]kn1ght7 50 points51 points ago

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Unfortunately that's all there was on it :/ Here's the article

[–]MontegoBarbados 12 points13 points ago

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Kinda weird seeing boobs at the bottom of the article.

[–]stupidalias 26 points27 points ago

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I'm ashamed to admit I probably wouldn't have 'read' the article without that motivation.

[–]potatoinstitute[S] 64 points65 points ago

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Sorry, only got this: "This is so touching: an old WW2 Russian tank army veteran has finally found his own tank on which he passed through all the war standing in small Russian town as a monument and got emotionally shocked that people worried his heart won’t be able to cope with this."

[–]PoppaCappucino 19 points20 points ago

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There's just something so beautiful about this that you can't quite explain. I simply can't take my eyes off it.

[–]firemeboy 16 points17 points ago

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I lived in Russia for a semester. It seemed like everybody I talked to had lost a father, uncle, grandfather, or close relative in the war. Russians understand the high, high cost of war.

[–]BabyWookie 3 points4 points ago

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Well, obviously. Nearly an entire generation of men was wiped out.

[–]Wootsat 50 points51 points ago

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He's getting the hide-a-key and then he's gonna tear shit up.

[–]polerix 19 points20 points ago

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NOW let's see those kids on my lawn!

[–]bloog 149 points150 points ago

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I wish I could look at an elderly person and see them as they were in their prime.
I can't change my perception though.
I see them as the old, physically weak, pitiable person they are instead the strong and able person they once were.
I feel bad about this.
Especially, since I'll be old some day soon, and no one will care that I once was young. :\
Kind of tangential, but this picture made me feel really guilty in that regard.

[–]MontegoBarbados 64 points65 points ago

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That's the rub. By the time you finally understand the world from their point of view, your youth is long gone.

"Youth is wasted on the young."

[–]elperroborrachotoo 26 points27 points ago

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Growing old still beats the alternatives on offer.

[–]farkdog 8 points9 points ago

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Immortality?

[–]elperroborrachotoo 6 points7 points ago

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"So many long for immortality and don't know what to do on a rainy sunday afternoon."

[–]bisonsphere 11 points12 points ago

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This series of photos actually helped change my perception:

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

(Photographer's site)

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points ago

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oh pshaw. I am 60 and would NEVER want to be 20 again. trust me.

[–]whiffybatter 9 points10 points ago

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Don't worry about this -- the old really were young once, and they once felt just as you did -- they understand, because they are and were just the same. I say this as a quickly-becoming-old-ish person.

[–]tomllm 2 points3 points ago

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The papers in Britain often pick up on stories like '85 year old grandfather fights off would be store robbers with his walking stick.'

It's so easy to forget that when he was my age he had just finished with such a massive war (or any of the myriad conflicts during the 40s/50s) that the loss of an entire company or two barely merited a footnote in a report. The scale of the destruction can't really be fathomed any more.

Smacking a delinquent over the head probably doesn't seem like much if you've been in a trench during an artillery barrage.

[–]BridgetteBane 19 points20 points ago

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This, so much this. The movie UP made me cry for like 3 hours because I obsess over these things.

[–]Supervisor194 3 points4 points ago

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You're not alone.

[–]i_quit 81 points82 points ago*

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i just got home from afghanistan a week and a half ago. combat arms MOS so i wasn't sitting on a FOB, behind the wire. i can't stand it here. i come home and brats are rioting at an expensive college. they're not protesting exorbitant tuition or anything like that. they're pissed because a goddam coach got fired for protecting a filthy, despicable boy-toucher. the writers of Toy Story are trying to turn Farmville into a movie. and i'm shuffling through walmart and trying not to cringe at every loud noise. i hate it here. i want to go back.

edit: sorry if this isn't the forum for this particular rant. it was just the first thing i saw when i signed on, this morning.

[–]malmac 26 points27 points ago

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Well, fuck rich kids at expensive colleges, ignore the stupid crap in the news, it's not like you can do anything about it, there are more mature movie choices out there, and by all means avoid Walmart.

And thank you for your sacrifice and service, and your initial displeasure notwithstanding, welcome back home.

[–]zulan[!] 11 points12 points ago

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Don't let the media shape your view of America. There is a lot of good out there.

Give yourself some time. Let the shit unwind a bit and re-connect with friends and family. It will get better.

And if it lingers, by all means get some professional help. There is no shame in coming back from a war zone a little rocky.

[–]Blah2500 9 points10 points ago

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As a current veteran the power of this photo cannot be exemplified in words.

[–]DarkSideofOZ 18 points19 points ago

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Imgur link? For some odd reason my workplace firewall thinks the cold war is still on and is blocking the site.

[–]ValleyOfTheMountain 7 points8 points ago

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This photo hit me harder than any of the other memorial photos on Reddit lately. I just put myself in his shoes, seeing his friends die when he was just a kid... and a felt a clenching feeling in my chest and moistness in the eyes.

Fuck war.

[–]skyrouter 9 points10 points ago

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It's a shame so many must die because of but a few men

[–][deleted] 192 points193 points ago*

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This is so touching: an old WW2 Russian tank army veteran has finally found his own tank on which he passed through all the war standing in small Russian town as a monument and got emotionally shocked that people worried his heart won’t be able to cope with this.

This is extremely unlikely to be literally true, especially the part about this being the tank "on which he passed through all the war". Tanks just didn't last very long in WWII. More likely, this was just the type of tank (most likely a T-34) that he was in, and the story was mistranslated.

Edit: Going by the turret schematics here, this is a T34-85 built in 1945.

[–]brainburger 32 points33 points ago*

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I wonder where the serial number of a T-34 is located? I doubt it is on the side, visible to this guy in this position?

It was the most common tank of WW2, so it's rather more likely that he is seeing a T-34 for the first time in years, rather than one he served in.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points ago

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One of the items in your link said it was stamped on the glacis, so it might have been right where he was standing. There are also some vertical marks at the base of the turret which might represent "kills" put there by the crew. Probably not, though.

That photo is interesting, though. I've seen it written frequently that the finish of the T-34 was considered extremely crude by Western standards. In most (non-closeup) photos, that's not readily apparent, but in this photo you can really see it (the turret in particular looks like it was made in my junior high school shop class).

[–]fantasmoslam 46 points47 points ago

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Such a buzzkill.

[–]chaotic2050 8 points9 points ago

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RudeBegger often goes by the name of Captain Buzzkill.

[–]GooglesYourUsername 225 points226 points ago

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[–]orangelinerider 178 points179 points ago

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That kid is a future banker.

[–]SquareRoot 42 points43 points ago

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Kids can be the meanest bastards. Ever.

[–]krebsicle 44 points45 points ago

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Kids are tiny sociopaths. I do not mean that metaphorically. Their brain development is not "there" yet.

[–]IMasturbateToMyself 30 points31 points ago

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That kid. ಠ_ಠ

p.s. do me!

[–]GooglesYourUsername 29 points30 points ago

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[–]IMasturbateToMyself 20 points21 points ago

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YAY :D You are welcome, reddit.

[–]Chester_b 14 points15 points ago

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Faye Reagan is awesome.

[–]Mysteryman64 13 points14 points ago

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It could very well have been the last tank he used. Not every single tank would have been destroyed.

[–]RaovacAAA 14 points15 points ago

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Vehicle identification number & proof of registration or it didn't happen.

[–]reon-_ 7 points8 points ago

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[–]Mushashi 6 points7 points ago

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You guys need to read history better.Stalin was not hitlers' ally in usual sence of the word.These two gangsters knew each other on sight.Stalin had liquidated the cream of his officer corps when war came he had to play for time.Then there was the game within the game.Who would Germany invade first England or Russia.Churchill actually shared intel with Stalin about operation Barabossa but he didnt believe it.He thought clever devious Chruchill was trying to manipulate him into invading Germany.You guys have this simplistic good guy bad guy thing to these people its chess and millions of people are just pawns. One dead man is tragedy a million dead men is stastitc.

[–]eltigretom 7 points8 points ago

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The thing about ww2 history is that there is so much that happened you couldn't possibly learn it all and focus on the many aspects due to the amount of information there is. I suppose you would have to study in college, or history in general to go more in depth about Russia and the rest of the eastern front. I don't think it is entirely pro American propaganda. I can't imagine that Russians, Germans, French, or the English spend large portions of ww2 history focusing what America did in the pacific (maybe some due). I'm sure they hit the gist of It, but probably not nearly as in depth as we do in the states, given it is a part of our country's history that bears slightly more significance than Russians parts of the war. Once again, simply because it's our country's part in the war. None of this is to down play anything or anyones ones contributions and sacrifices on either side. I just think this is all the reality of studying history. You're likely to learn what bears more significance to where you are (from an American public education perspective, not collegiate). In our case, the American parts in the war.

[–]Steelhorsecowboy 7 points8 points ago

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"Only the dead have seen the end of war"

[–]Wrym 21 points22 points ago

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This is the tanks I get?

[–]toomanydeadirish 15 points16 points ago

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More Russians were killed in Leningrad than the combined losses of both Britain and the United States during WWII. The Russians won the war for us at a cost that the west has never respected. Read some history other than your 8th grade history book.

[–]BridgetteBane 19 points20 points ago

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This Image shows that our gentleman appears to have more bling than a bar full of guidos. This man apparently now sells onions. So many onions.

[–]thecatdoesdrugs 24 points25 points ago

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The distance between myself and this man just blindsided me. I'll never know that desolation.

I hope someone was there to help him back to his feet.

[–]Recnepsbaby 6 points7 points ago

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What does the text near his shoe say?

[–]LesEnfantsTerribles 14 points15 points ago

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It's not Greeks who fight like heroes, but heroes who fight like Greeks. -Churchill

[–]malakies 13 points14 points ago

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Not to mention Stalin himself stated the Russians could not have fought back the Germans unless the Greeks had held them up long enough to allow winter to set in during their assault into Russia.

Greece lost 1 million of it's 9 million people during the war. Rough stuff! Another forgotten heroic war effort...

[–]jittwoii 12 points13 points ago

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Even Hitler admitted: "For the sake of historical truth I must verify that only the Greeks, of all the adversaries who confronted us, fought with bold courage and highest disregard of death."

[–]derkrieger 5 points6 points ago

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I'm interested in hearing more about this, Greece is one of those countries that I really haven't looked into the history of during WW2.

[–]jittwoii 4 points5 points ago

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Yeah, Greeks in WWII are never put in videogames or modern films for some reason haha. Thousands of Cypriots also volunteered to join the effort, even though they resented the British colony that was governing the island at the time. Churchill promised to return sovereignty to the Cypriots but he kind of backed out afterwards which is why EOKA was formed and fought the British. They are still considered as a terrorist group by the British I think despite their main targets being military. People from Cyprus however hold them in highest regard, but I digress!

[–]thegreatgazoo 5 points6 points ago

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The Hardcore History podcast has several episodes on the Eastern Front war. After listening to it I'm surprised they were as nice to the Germans as they were after the war was over. And they weren't exactly nice.

[–]Mike762 10 points11 points ago

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Anyone ever seen the movie, Come and See? It's probably one of the best and most brutal WW2 movies I've seen.

Fun Fact: Live ammo was used instead of blanks to add realism.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/

[–]potatoinstitute[S] 5 points6 points ago

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Great movie. Must see.

[–]Austerlitz1805 15 points16 points ago

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The Eastern Front during WWII was just hell on earth. And so many epic battles took place there (Kursk anyone?). When you compare the American dead to the Russian dead at the end of the war it puts things into perspective.

[–]jkh77 9 points10 points ago

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USSR losses and destruction on the Eastern Front in WW2 was unimaginable. Without the USSR, the rest of the Allies would have lost, I have no doubt. Read No Simple Victory by Norman Davies, he takes a very data-heavy look at the cost of the war, specifically on the Eastern Front, because that's where 75% of WW2 happened.

[–]grink 4 points5 points ago

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[–]svl0822 3 points4 points ago

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First time I upvoted anything on reddit. been lurking for 6 months. Almost shed a tear.

[–]Ktmouse 3 points4 points ago

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My grandfather was a paratrooper, who broke his leg the last practice jump before D-Day. His entire chalk was killed and it is speculated the plane was shot down. He always used to say he wished he went with them.

[–]Punkwasher 17 points18 points ago

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fuck war.

[–]imgur-mirror-bot 25 points26 points ago

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[–]alexisnotonfire 13 points14 points ago

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the lord's work etc. etc.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]timeintheocean 3 points4 points ago

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That's about as much emotion as you could get in a photo! I was moved.

[–]TalkingBackAgain 2 points3 points ago

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You can start a story with that picture.

[–]SikhGamer 4 points5 points ago

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Holy shit, my heart stirred. Look at the pain on his face. We will never understand, as much as we might try.

[–]Blueprint-LFE 1 point2 points ago

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This is a one and a million chance for something like this to happen. In every war there are people on both sides. I did a tour in Afghanistan with the marines and I have seen to many kids and mothers get killed by IEDs. Heartbreaking.

[–]Karoisi 3 points4 points ago

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For all who have family involved in this horrible past. We are so lucky to be able to even be here. Our grandfathers made that happen and his their pain from us so we can be happy stupid kids. These poor men and families. It's sick. My childhood was spent growing up in Poland in a town which was once a work camp. Best years of my life. Running around in the fields where people were butchered. Holding my grandfathers hand as we walk through a town he saw his family be murdered. And right now, I'm writing this comment on a fucking IPhone. It's gross.

[–]Siberian_644 8 points9 points ago

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It's sad to see that bunch of russophobic idiots find this topic too. If u dislike Russia - it's your own right, guys. But try not to disturb honor of our grandfathers.

[–]quantumcipher 6 points7 points ago

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Just when I was going to complain about reddit becoming too emotive.. you just had to show me a picture of an old man with a cane on his knees crying.

Damn you, reddit, for being right again.

[–]bowery_boy 2 points3 points ago

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Well, if it's the exact tank I wouldn't be surprised.... Tankers have a knack for knowing their vehicles..... Weird but true. The look, the damage.... The general appearance.

It's like looking at a cars and being able to pick out which one is theirs.

On the other hand..... Could be a bad translation.... Or could be a stock photo with a made up story

[–]Necromas 2 points3 points ago

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Don't forget to check out the rest of englishrussia, really amazing site.

[–]creepingdeathv2 2 points3 points ago

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thank you sir for protecting us against the nazis. hope we can make you proud of us through our advancements and making a brighter future..