This quote changed my life. They had it down in 300 BC. Till this day, were still beating a dead horse.

Cituke · 10 months

Well the first point I should make is that this is actually in the collage of overdone images I made for the FAQ. That doesn't mean this is a bad thing as having a conversation over this is worth doing more than once.

Outside of that, I'll put it into a more syllogistic form:

Evil exists
God doesn't stop it
Either God can't or won't
If God can't then He's not all powerful, if He won't He's not all good.

The standard apologetic response is to say that God may have a sufficient reason for allowing evil. Some leave it at that, but doing so doesn't do us justice for several reasons:

We can talk about possible all day. If we're going to talk about probable, then the problem is still ever looming. Is it probable that God had a perfectly good reason to allow the holocaust. It intuitively doesn't seem so. Even minor suffering such as butt sweat on a hot april evening needs justification, and I'd hate to try and connect the dots as to how my swampass brings about a greater good.

Others try to extrapolate with explanations like Free-will and what not. Every explanation has its own problems, but the one they share in common is that they're presupposing what God finds sufficient to allow evil for.

We could say that God just happens to like terrible tsunamis and that's why he allows them even though they cause suffering.

threejd · 10 months

[deleted]

CejusChrist · 10 months

I saw this quote while I was in a bad place in my life. Jobless, about to be homeless, having dug myself so far into the ground. I contemplated my life, and didn't see much left in me. I read this, and for some reason I began to think, and from that thinking, I gained a new view on life. Now I live in my own apartment, work a great job, and even volunteer 3 days of my week to truly helping others. Life still isn't easy, But at least now I have a good idea about what I can accomplish.

metalmusicatheism · 10 months

we're

awayathrowaway · 10 months

Lurker on reddit for several years; never felt compelled to respond to a post before. Not sure if this is just a case of me feeling that "someone on the internets is WRONG" but I feel like I need to at least attempt to set the OP and commenters straight (and Epicurious, for that matter) on why reformed Christians like myself think that view is wrong.

The quote from Epicurious is basically a logic-based expression of the question "Why does God allow evil things?" The quote purports to answer the question logically through a Socratic dialogue, but the assumptions that underly the logic are distinctly HUMAN assumptions which torpedo any of the supposed "answers" that the reasoning yields.

Basically, Epicurious (and all of the other commenters who inevitably base their lack of belief in an infinitely good Christian God on the existence of bad things in the world) has fallen into the very human, very selfish trap of thinking that the Christian God serves US, that we humans DESERVE no pain and no suffering and no death simply because God is in a position to provide those things.

Think of small children who beg the parents for candy. As a parent there a number of reasons not to give in to the begging. The parent may be concerned with making sure that the child forms healthy eating habits or simply that the child learn that he/she can't have everything that he/she wants. The child could (and frequently does) deduce that the parent simply "does not love him/her"; however, I think reddit is smart enough to see that this would almost assuredly NOT be the case, even if it does make sense logically to the child.

Similarly, with Epicurious, the commenters here on reddit, and every other person who has ever struggled with this question, the first problem is believing that we, the creation, somehow know better than the creator what our place and role is in the entire plan. The second problem is believing that we, the creation, know better than the creator how this role should be played. The third and final problem is believing that there is no creator (or that the creator doesn't care about his creation) because the creator doesn't follow creation thinking with regard to problems #1 and #2. God certainly capable of giving us all a comfortable existence free of bad things (the candy) but doesn't because of reasons that we cannot and do not comprehend as humans.

It boils down to failing to see and appreciate the sovereignty of God, which is ultimately a problem of selfishness. "I don't see how an infinitely good God can allow bad things in my existence; ergo, no infinitely good God can exist." What Epicurious, the OP, and other commenters miss is that God's purpose in creating the creation was NOT to glorify the creation but to glorify the creator. Understanding this purpose is not easy; it is much easier to read through a 6 line syllogism and decide that God doesn't exist. True understanding demands that one constantly fight the temptations of selfish thinking and smugness that often accompanies human logic and WORK to find the deeper unity that ties together the often superficial contradictions.

Downvote away!

spammeaccount · 10 months

You just need to look at the US to realize how Ancient Greece could discover the atom, steam engine, democracy, advanced math, circumference of the Earth, principles of gravity, sun centered solar system, causes of eclipses, the science of diseases, yet still be 99% full of superstitious ignoramus morons. Yep Religion. http://i.imgur.com/ju7Cq.jpg

ComputerSavvy · 10 months

Why does God need a spaceship? - Kirk

Volsunga · 10 months

The problem I have with the Epicurean dilemma is that you need to define what "evil" means first. You need to agree on a system of morality before this can be applied. Since some theists define "evil" as anything that's not God, this dilemma is irrelevant because from that set of definitions, it's self contradictory.

Thefallacydetective · 10 months

Just popping in to say that this quote most likely was not said by Epicurus. It doesn't follow any of his teachings at all. He taught that the gods were completely neutral and did not effect the daily lives of people. It was probably made up and then attributed to Epicurus so it could be used as an appeal to authority.

Fuqwon · 10 months

Old school Greeks were so much better than present day Greeks. Old school guys were some of the greatest philosophers ever. Present day guys give us trendy yogurt and economic instability.

mromblesomble · 10 months

What if God has a heavenly sense of humor?

DeathHamsterDude · 10 months

This was one of my favourite quotes when I was in secondary school. Summed everything up nicely.

pablothesnail · 10 months

I dont know about in the christian tradition, but the old testament god is clearly not omnipotent- though he creates the universe and all that, he has no power over the free will of humans. Since man is created in god's image, humanity possess independent thought in the same way god does, and that is not something he can exercise control over- hence Adam and Eve's ejection from Eden, the existence of sin, and so on. God constantly struggles to control humanity's selfish desires but eventually he realizes that man is inherently evil and decides that there is no way from him to stop the existence of violence. The only reason he decides to keep humanity alive, rather than just ending his failed experiment, is through his covenant with Abraham and the creation of the chosen people. Obviously, if God is so insecure that he feels the need to make a binding contract with these people then he acknowledges that, despite his role as the creator, there really isn't that much he can do to curb the thoughts and action of mankind. Religion, then, isn't just the worship of him, but a binding agreement, by which both parties benefit. By pledging faith to him, you gain his promise of protection, and by obeying his laws you help his goal of preventing evil. Though people say the god of the old testament is such an asshole, he's really much nicer than zeus or most ancient gods, who just don't seem to give a fuck either way.

chbrules · 10 months

You cannot reason with those who do not value logic. You must simply ridicule them and push them as far away from positions of wealthy and power as you can.

MrGunny · 10 months

The sad thing is that a lot of people trick themselves into believing that things couldn't be this simple.

[deleted] · 10 months

I am a Christian who visits /r/atheism often. While I suppose that you might not like me being there, I'd still like you to at least read this before downvoting: The question of what is evil and what is not is very subjective, I think everyone can agree to this. While there are many things that are purely evil, the question of whether atheists are evil or not is not so easy to answer-while I think that one's religion doesn't determine how 'good' or 'bad' he is, I think God you are making fun of in this subreddit would have other opinions, i.e., that atheists are evil. If he was able(and willing!) to stop the evil, I guess atheists would be the first he'd go against, but that would be a fight against freedom of choice, even if we all thought that believing in God is the only correct choice. The same goes with everything, really. Would you really want GOD to determine what is evil and what is not? Prove me wrong, if you want, I am willing to defend my point and also to give in if I see that what I have written here is some 'Christian bullshit'

Fatbuster · 10 months

There never was a horse to beat in the first place.

Helpxer · 10 months

Long time lurker, never really comment or on any site but felt I should share. As a Christian I've asked these same questions. I don't claim to have all the answers but I heard an explanation that I liked: for love to be real, there has to be freedom not to love. God gave us the freedom to not love him, but if choose to do this, there is suffering. Most people then think that if they choose to follow God, all of their problems will go away and they will have "happiness". I think are perception of happiness is often construed. Suffering can make us better people, stronger, wiser and lead to lasting happiness. We don't realize this. We think we know what's best. I think people just need to realize they don't know everything and don't even know what's best for them. That's my opinion anyways. I'm trying not to be the typical Christian that judges and thinks they're better than others. I see a lot of Christians defend their faith like they do their favorite sports team or political party. It become about defending their ego and not about the welfare of the other person and possibly bringing them peace and joy.

titlickingfuck · 10 months

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

devries · 10 months

I've copy-pasted the following on multiple occasions here:

This quote needs to be properly attributed.

It is sad that I have to say this again and again...

For the record...Epicurus never said this, as far as we know. Called "theological lying", when David Hume wanted to say blasphemous things, the would either assume the voice of a historical atheist or, just make up a character to represent his views (i.e, Philo) in order that he not be persecuted for saying blasphemous things himself.

Hume assumes the voice of Epicurus in part 11 of his "Enquiry" in order to assert many of the same atheistic arguments that he makes in the "Dialogues" that Hume has Philo paraphrase Epicurus in Hume's "Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion" (ch. 10), saying:

"EPICURUS's old questions are yet unanswered. Is he willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" This is the source. Epicurus might have likely agreed, but we have no record of him saying this.

People need to stop reposing this every other day; misquoting is the modus operandi of the creationists, and is unbecoming of atheists who simply delight in eristic and schadenfreude.

balr · 10 months

300 BCE*

you do realize you're posting in r/atheism right?

fashizzIe · 10 months

Free will.

ninjedit: To elaborate, my solution to that if I were a theist would be "He doesn't prevent evil because that would contradict our free will."

Ginnerben · 10 months

Till this day, were still beating a dead horse

No, we're really not. This quote is the atheist equivalent of the crocoduck. The only people convinced by it are people who already held that position, or people who aren't particularly well educated on the subject. As far as theology and philosophy is concerned, Plantinga answered this already. If you want to have a discussion about the problem of evil, you need to do it in terms of his solution.

Plantinga:

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

Now the responses that usually come out of r/atheism when this is brought up are the problem of natural evil and debates about the meaning of omnipotence. For the first, Plantinga does answer it by saying essentially pushing the problem back to supernatural entities. Basically, demons cause earthquakes/floods/plagues, etc. While this might be a problem for some branches of Christianity, its not for Plantinga since he's just talking about the logical problem of evil and an omnipotent being, rather than a defence of Christianity.

For the second, it essentially turns into "Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it", which hasn't been a theological problem in a long time ("Can God create a world in which everyone does good things but still has free will?"). The idea of a God whose omnipotence doesn't allow him to ignore logic doesn't seem to be a problem for most religious folks.

Believe me, if I had a decent argument against this (besides how unsatisfying it is) I'd be submitting it to journals and profiting.

db2 · 10 months

As much as I love this quote... the truth is, God is just a dick.

Dr_Scientist_ · 10 months

The word for this is called sisyphean.

DrummingBum · 10 months

Hmm- I once wrote a paper on this- granted I'm an amateur, and more agnostic than anything, but it made perfect sense to me this way:

If god DOES have a reason for allowing evil, assuming that god is all that they say he is (omnipotent, benevolent, omniscient), it would be to allow us the benifit of knowing what Good is, and allowing us the FREEDOM to choose whether to choose to do Good, or choose to do Bad.

Eliminating Evil would, in an effect, take away our free will as human beings. If free will is what makes humans human, than by all means- god gives that to us in a most simple form- the choice between good and evil.

More than that, people have argued that there is by far more evil in the world than there is good- which has also been countered by the theory that god gave us that propensity to do evil, because if we had the propensity to do good, than why wouldn't we?

Having a temptation for performing evil makes choosing good that much more rewarding.

Of course there are so many holes is this logic it's almost funny- but it's still a theory. Personally, I have no clue, I don't worry about it too much.

Andreslargo1 · 10 months

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwwOYgXPhGk

bsonk · 10 months

Epicurus was a boss.

Gijuany · 10 months

This is genius but what if what's evil to us is good to this god guy hence "good die young"

tellerotales · 10 months

When I discovered this quote in college I was very pleased, as it mirrored my own conclusions (and I'm a big classical nerd).

While I am not an atheist, it did help me separate my analytical and spiritual sides and be comfortable with both. My spiritual side is constantly evolving as I consider what we discover through science et al, and my rational side is fortified by the belief that we may someday find our own answers to these "ultimate questions."

For now I vacillate between the "creator-thing isn't good or evil" and "creator-thing wants the best for us but is not all-powerful." In fact my favorite personal belief is that some kind of intelligence set in motion our universe (and our sentience) hoping to someday bring about something equal to or greater than itself (lonely god + singularity?)

painperdu · 10 months

It's interesting that some posters here pretend to acknowledge the logic behind the quote but then go on to state why they believe god is above it.

de·lu·sion/diˈlo͞oZHən/ Noun: An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality,...

[deleted] · 10 months

Yes, you are beating a dead horse. Generally, one who has reached this point is recommended to stop.

Melner · 10 months

I would've commented something logical but I get the "you're doing that too much. try again in x minutes" reddit message. Research shows this is throttling when people downvoted your comments in the subreddit before. So this subreddit effectively doesn't want to hear any differing opinions, even logical ones. Good-bye; my last comment in r/atheism.

ZoeBlade · 10 months

The Epicureans even had a fantastic word, "ataraxia". From Wikipedia:

For the Epicureans, ataraxia was synonymous with the only true happiness possible for a person. It signifies the state of robust tranquility that derives from eschewing faith in an afterlife, not fearing the gods because they are distant and unconcerned with us, avoiding politics and vexatious people, surrounding oneself with trustworthy and affectionate friends and, most importantly, being an affectionate, virtuous person, worthy of trust.

addmemoirs · 10 months

This quote misses one major factor. Maybe God tried for awhile and got bored/frustrated/fed up. The idea that God is a unchanging being is a relatively new one. Maybe he gave it his best shot, tried a few times (old testament flood re-do) and eventually said "screw this".

At that point he basically said to his per-pubesccent omni-powerful entity son, JC, "you take it from here, I love you guys, but I am pretty much done"

corruptionism · 10 months

What about "not willing because it wont do any good for the development of humans/humanity" ? I am not religious, just saying. Also, there are many other possibilities ...

caster · 10 months

The problem, sir, is that the horse is not actually dead yet.

Seife · 10 months

Thats teodicy , that's normal religion class stuff.

h22keisuke · 10 months

I bet you'd like Staring at the Sun by Irvine Yalom

Vilvos · 10 months

While this argument does refute specific theologies, it isn't a good argument against the existence of a god; the heretical gnostic movement, for example, argued for a flawed creator god.

ShadowBelmont · 10 months

If you were God what would you do?

Ultra-ChronicMonstah · 10 months

So far, the best answer I've seen is "God is none of these things. He is more" which doesn't make any fucking sense.

7952 · 10 months

When you do things right; people won't be sure you have done anything at all.

ravenouscraving · 10 months

God has a plan. He knows what we'll do tomorrow.
We have free will.

God knows all your thoughts and your hearts desires. He knew you before you were born.
You must talk to him and pray to him. Prayer will change your life.

God is perfect, and does not make mistakes.
Wipes out first batch of creation and promises not to do it again.

We were designed intelligently by God our creator.
Swallow food and drink through the same orifice through which we breathe. Sewage line runs right through the playground.

The universe and all of creation was designed by God for man.
99.9(repeating) of the universe is uninhabitable vacuum. Most of everything else is massive balls of fusion, inescapable gravity wells, and chunks of ice and rock hurtling through wide, empty space. If no air, no heat, and all that chaos doesn't kill you, the radiation certainly would.

timmaeus · 10 months

Ah, the Job problem.

hachuri · 10 months

I guess he just epi'cured'us!

Redskyvar · 10 months

I think I have a response to this.

God is good and all powerful (potentially). God allows for free-will, and so he holds back on his power. The evil is therefore a result of man. God chooses not to interfere for the sake of our freedom. In other words, God limits his own power. This limit on God's power is not something that is fixed, but that at any time God can reassert his power and remove all evil. The problem is that all freedom is gone as well.

So there is no contradiction between being all good and all powerful.

Evil and freedom go hand in hand often, but the potential for good is also possible as a concept, when it is contrasted with evil. So evil can be used to develop an understanding of good. This is mostly speculation. In other words, freedom allows for the possibility of good and evil. God desires freedom, as without freedom we are all slaves, and the concept of the good is meaningless. But with freedom, there is the possibility of evil.

There is also no logical reason that being omniscient is not compatible with determinism, even though it may appear highly unlikely. So free will is compatible with an all knowing God. Put simply, just because you know what I'm going to do, doesn't mean I didn't choose to do it.

Btw, I don't understand the concept of God, nor am I a Christian, just throwing some thoughts out. (Edit* I just found out from the post above by Ginnerben that Plantinga had said this stuff already.)

omgnazi · 10 months

There's a fucking context to that quote that is routinely (and in this case) left out, ignored, or simply not acknowledged that completely changes what that means, you dumb fuck.

Since your all so very, very clever I'll leave it to you to discover on your own. Mind you that it will take a fair amount of reading and you'll need to cross-reference other philosophical schools of thought on the question of evil to truly understand what Epicurus is talking about.

But you won't. You'll just use it as a banner to your cause that really just cries out, "I AM AN IGNORANT FUCK WHO CANNOT BE PISSED TO READ".

wtf...

Digibella · 10 months

I have a problem with statement number one. Please define evil and prove that it "exists". There are those who define evil as the absence of God's love. What is your definition?

Uraeus · 10 months

"Is he able, but not willing"

I believe this statement does not make him (if he exists at all) malevolent. I'd rather have my child learn from experience, touch the burning plate if that's what it takes to learn, but I will not interfere. I bet you won't touch another hotplate for the rest of your life (intentionally). He also knows what happens when he tells us not to do something (apples anyone?).

How does non-interference make you evil? Does that make Star Fleet evil?

iknowadude · 10 months

you're putting to much thought into this

sortanos · 10 months

It's called the problem of evil. Just to post a source.

adzug · 10 months

you realize this means this god damned fight weve been having with those who are superstitiously inclined has been going on for thousands of years and prolly will be in the future. but we are getting stronger.

jagedlion · 10 months

This, as you say is very old. In fact, you will find it raised by people who studied religion just as often as by those who don't. It's a trivial question, with a million responses, all of which are equally old.

If you want to be ignorant, then by all means, be convinced, if you want to learn, it should have taken you all of 30 seconds to find countless meaningful answers to this quandary. By posting here, I see that your only goal is to be ignorant all your life.

pawsforbear · 10 months

If "why does evil exist?" was your hang-up for religion, then religion really wasn't for you in the first place. I'm not a religious person, but I was raised up to be one... and I find this the silliest argument as to why there is no god.

Trvth_Jvstice · 10 months

Free will -Man is responsible for the crap hole he's built for himself.

Hihowareyoutoday · 10 months

I haven't really read all the responses, but heres my two cents.

I am religious, but not christian, and heres how my religion puzzles out this riddle.

Think of life on this earth as a school, and the afterlife is life. Think of suffering as homework. We can say that "If the teacher want to and cant prevent homework, then they do not hold much power in the school system" and so on. But homework/suffering is there as a teaching tool; Why else would there be life on earth then an afterlife? To TEST us? Test our what?!

No, suffering is a teaching tool for when we move onto another realm of much less suffering, to understand why its important to help others, what it feels like to lose something firsthand, and so on and forth.

sefsefsefsef · 10 months

Able&&!Willing-->Malevolent doesn't hold. That's illogical unless you make some pretty weird assumptions. It assumes that forcibly stopping evil is a greater virtue than not destroying free will. This is one of the dumbest quotes ever.

drebik · 10 months

That's pretty primitive thinking, well not primitive but deals with primitive religions like these from middle East. Far East religions are much more sophisticated when it comes to problem of suffering and benevolent God. Read up.

Icky-organ · 10 months

Why am I hungry all of a sudden?

theayeinthesky · 10 months

You're assuming that God concerns Himself with every trifling matter.. like swampass. Free will was God's gift to man. Constantly correctly evil throughout the world would null that. How else do you let people live their own lives?

myshambar · 10 months

Okay, I follow points 1, 2, and 4 well, but I don't know if I can agree with the logic of the third point. If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, but does not, is this saying that evil comes from God? Or is it actually posing a question to the reader, as in, where would evil come from then?

To me, a God that is both able and willing to prevent evil, but does not, would seem to fall in line with the idea in Christianity of a God that is able to intervene in the lives of people, but does not, allowing people to make their own decisions regarding life, ethics, etc. I'm not saying that the third idea is what God should be like, but I feel like the third point is actually a confirmation of what Christians believe in.

The question, then whence cometh evil? could almost be taken, in the eyes of the religious, as a question that can be answered with the Devil, Satan, etc. Obviously, Epicurus not being a native English speaker, I am sure that the third point made much more sense in his native tongue than in the translation, so I can't really say I disagree with him. However, I think a more logical argument would flow like this:

God willing but not able? Not omnipotent. Able but not willing? Malevolent. Not able or willing? Why call him God? (Of this world, as inability to prevent evil almost denotes association with another world/not involved with creation/maintenance of this existence/world. Unwillingness to prevent evil would also seem to denote non-involvement with this world, as what God would bother with something he had no part in?) Able and willing but wont? That would denote the existence of another God, equally as powerful as the first.

I switched the 3rd and last point, as I felt the last seemed more of a talking point than an actual argument. I feel the lack of ability or willingness to prevent would seem to denote something more of a polytheistic creation, where different gods are assigned to different existences, and a God or gods that have no desire or power to change this world for the better/worse would not have any association with this existence and the morality/behavior of its people.

I think that if there existed a God that was able and willing to prevent evil, but could not, would seem to denote the existence of another God (e.g. Satan) that is consistently stopping him. At this point, about twenty minutes into racking my brains for an alternative to the third point, I'm pretty sure I just reworded the third point and didn't really come up with an alternative at all. So fuck me.

TL;DR - Don't even bother =(

Antonius42 · 10 months

That quote runs in the heart of more religious people than I think they care to admit. Religion has had its hand in defining and re-defining what is considered to be good and acceptable, attempting to establish a set of moral codes to live by. However, given the current state of affairs in the US and around the world, any sentient individual must question how atrocities are committed every single minute of every single day. Where is the all-knowing, omnipotent, all loving God in the grand scheme of things? Why isn’t He stopping all this “evil”?

I think we need to remove ourselves from the concept of good and evil as something from divine origins. Good and evil is a human condition, not something that we have been plagued by metaphysical entities to test our moral character. I believe in personal responsibility rather than attaching blame to an outside force. We have to accept the short and long term repercussions of our actions. We are all interconnected. Our decisions certainly have an impact on our lives and may an affect on others. Why do horrible situations happen in life? It would be fruitless to try to come with an answer, as every situation and the motivating factors are as unique as the individuals who had their hand in them. We all have a hand in what could be considered good or evil, it is up to us to make the right choice…or as the saying goes…the better choice of the lesser of two evils.

icefox44 · 10 months

I guess that if anyone was a believer and following His rules (attributed to Him), the "evil", whatever it is, would be reduced in proportion. But I should not say that in /r/atheism :)

HumanEvolutionn · 10 months

I made this!

http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/aarongabriel1/funny/?action=view&current=EPICURUS---300-BCE.jpg

okinawanmatt · 10 months

http://memegenerator.net/instance/10845105

EveryDamage · 10 months

we beat dead horses because the modern transit system has eliminated the utility of live ones.

krobarrox · 10 months

We will surely test you through some fear, hunger, and loss of money, lives, and crops. Give good news to the steadfast. [Quran 2:155]

[deleted] · 10 months

don't ever quote epicurus on this stuff, both because epicurus never said that, and because his philosophy was a purely ethical philosophy - he himself believed both the theology and the science he espoused to be false, but in the hellenistic period it wasn't about being right, it was about making a 'feel good' ethics which would make you happy to be wrong - and it was from this same ethical turn in philosophy that Christianity spawned as one of the many 'mystery cults' offering personal salvation as a foil to the detached and impersonal 'state religion' of the roman empire.

M0b1u5 · 10 months

Fuck you and your retarded English. Fuck you very much.

Doomdoomkittydoom · 10 months

My crack at the problem of evil for the modern Christian god:

When people list examples of evil, they mostly offer examples of physical suffering and anguish.

In popular Christian mythology, the physical world is not what is truly important, it merely plays a role for our spiritual selves, our souls. Our physical lives are comparatively a brief moment in our non-physical existence. And not only is God not-physical and omni-uber-super, but He also understands the big picture.

So I don't see what the dilemma is with evil, if evil is defined by the pain suffered by the short, physical existences. Evil so defined is myopic and selfish. As analogy, a young child brought to a doctors office only knows it as a scary place where pain and indignation is experienced. They wail and cry and resent the doctor and the parents not understanding the purpose of the visit.

In short, there is no problem, you meat bags are just a bunch of pussies.

[deleted] · 10 months

Goosebumps

butt_sexual · 10 months

we're*

drphenol · 10 months

This coming from a guy named "Epicurus"


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Help Atheist Organizations!

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