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The Secular Student Alliance, Camp Quest, and Foundation Beyond Belief were all nominated for the Chase Community Giving program, which awards grants based on the votes of the public. Everyone gets 2 votes on Facebook, plus an additional one if they share a CCG page. The links for them are:
SSA | CQ | FBB
Voting runs from September 6-19
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My first trip into r/christianity.. (i.imgur.com)
submitted 10 months ago by shawnpeps
[–]crackeddagger 36 points37 points38 points 10 months ago
I'm pretty sure the direction "back away slowly" has appeared in more simpsons scripts than any other television show.
[–]acemnorsuvwxz 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago
Also, "shudder".
[–]johnsmithindustries 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Do you know what episode this is from?
[–]thechapattack 8 points9 points10 points 10 months ago
I think it's "Homer Loves Flanders" S5:E16
[–]KinkyShelf 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
It is, which makes it more relevant.
[–]Yiggs 31 points32 points33 points 10 months ago
Every once in a while I go over to r/christianity for fun. They're pretty nice, but what makes me walk backwards into the hedge is when I run into the threads where they're asked to justify their belief in Christianity and it boils down to "I believe because I want to."
[–]EmptyAndFrantic 12 points13 points14 points 10 months ago
It's not the way they behave (because most of them are really nice) or how they justify their beliefs (I don't care if they want to have "faith" as long as it doesn't affect me), but the way some of them feel about certain issues that makes me want to back away slowly from it.
I'm not talking about gay marriage or other similar issues; rather, I'm talking about the fact that almost every time I go there, there is someone talking about how they feel bad about, say, watching porn or some other incredibly natural, healthy behavior. They're completely torn up about it because they think that their God really cares if they masturbate. They honestly feel guilty about it.
I'm not saying they shouldn't have the right to feel this way. I'm saying that it is incredibly sad (to me, anyway) that people are taught that their God is against something that is so incredibly... normal (not to mention fun).
There are other things that people say that just kind of make me sad, but that seems to be the popular one. I dunno. Anyone else feel that way?
[–]ZeroNihilist 7 points8 points9 points 10 months ago
It's like a sickly little bird. The door to the cage is open, but it never flies out. It so desperately wants to please its owner that it stays in the cage and shivers slightly. It can see the undomesticated birds outside, flying where they please and eating what they wish, finding other birds with desirable plumage and mating. But it wants none of that, because soon the owner will return.
Any second now...
[–]cheshire137 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
X-Files, man.
[–]erythro 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
everyone believes what they want to
here
[–]ptsaq 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Faith...can't prove it, can't go to heaven without it.
[–]daeger -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 months ago
why not? don't you choose not to believe because you want to?
[–]Yiggs 21 points22 points23 points 10 months ago
If one is to be intellectually honest, the complete lack of evidence compels me to not believe.
[–]daeger 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
And that's a fair conclusion.
But to me, I feel like that goes both ways. Lack of evidence for a God doesn't equate to evidence for a lack of God. When you get down to it, since there's no overwhelming logical pull to either option, an individual has to sit down, weigh their thoughts and believes and decide for themselves. I did that myself and ended up believing in God, and I'm sure many atheists here have done the same with the opposite result. Just my thoughts on the subject. Also, sorry for the mass of text.
[–]Anghammarad 9 points10 points11 points 10 months ago
Sure, but you seem to be straying into the a/gnostic area. Few atheists claim that there definitely aren't any gods based on the lack of evidence for them. Just that, on a balance of probability, it's unlikely that there are any.
[–]daeger 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
Hmm, and maybe that's where my misconception lies, because I always interpreted Atheism as kind of a cut-and-dry "There is no God".
I have trouble seeing myself as agnostic though, simply because in the back of my mind it just translate to this indecisive, apathetic gray-matter view. Rejecting or believing God is an important stance for a person to take imo, even if there's not much in the world that leans to either being correct.
[–]gaze 9 points10 points11 points 10 months ago
Rejecting or believing God is an important stance for a person to take imo, even if there's not much in the world that leans to either being correct.
Why? I'm totally happy not knowing. It'd be, again, intellectually dishonest to take a stance without evidence.
[–]Anghammarad 5 points6 points7 points 10 months ago
It might be helpful for you to check out the r/atheism FAQ for a good explanation of gnosticism and how it relates to theism and atheism. A simple explanation is that gnostic and agnostic are adjectives- they deal with knowledge and certainty.
If you're 100% sure that there is a God, then you're a gnostic theist. If you're not 100% sure, but still think there is a God, then you're an agnostic theist. The reverse applies for atheism. You'll find that the majority of atheists are agnostic atheists (or 'weak' atheists).
Here's a very informative site the FAQ links to about gnosticism.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Don't worry, that's pretty much a Reddit-wide misconception, given how often people smugly post "isn't believing in no god just as faith-based as believing in one?" whenever people start complaining about r/atheism.
It's also a good way for people who dislike atheism to try to frame it in a way that makes it seem like just another religion.
[–]holloway 6 points7 points8 points 10 months ago
Lack of evidence for a God doesn't equate to evidence for a lack of God.
Sure but the lack of evidence makes it indistinguishable from Thor, Yetis, Loch Ness Monster, Invisible Pink Unicorns, etc.
[–]Yiggs 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago*
I think the logical pull is in the direction of not believing that which has no evidence, to exist. Dragons are common in folklore, and there is no evidence for or against them, but am I justified in my belief that they exist because there is no evidence to the contrary? There is also not an equal chance between their existence and non-existence. In light of no evidence, the intellectually honest thing to do would hold a position of neutrality/no belief.
[–]ColdShoulder 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
If you mean a deistic god, then you're right that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Unfortunately, that isn't the god we're discussing. We're talking about the omnipotent, omni-benevolent, and omniscient god of Christianity. In that case, yes, absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Certainly, if he were all good and all powerful, we would be able to see evidence of his work. As he appears absent in the face of overwhelming tragedy all over the world, it is far beyond reasonable to assume that no omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-benevolent god exists. Think about it for a second. If such a being were to exist, there would be no question of his existence. It simply isn't reasonable to believe that an all powerful, all seeing, all loving god could exist without the slightest bit of evidence.
[–]h00pla 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Certainly, if he were all good and all powerful, we would be able to see evidence of his work.
What exactly is your support for this assertion?
It simply isn't reasonable to believe that an all powerful, all seeing, all loving god could exist without the slightest bit of evidence.
It isn't reasonable that an all power being could exist without us knowing? Doesn't that kind of make him not 'all powerful'
[–]ColdShoulder 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
No, if we can't tell the difference between a universe with an all-good, all-powerful, and all-knowing god and one without him, then it's likely he doesn't exist.
[–]Hawtre 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
You're born an atheist. Why make the jump to becoming religious without any compelling evidence?
When you get down to it, since there's no overwhelming logical pull to either option
This is not correct. There is loads of proof and evidence for science which conflicts with the bible, categorically. Something is assumed false until proven otherwise. Lack of evidence of something not existing does not offer evidence it does exist. If you want to believe, good, I do, but do not try and prove anything. It is impossible. For one, if you do actually have faith, the idea of proving God is viewed as a pathetic exercise in futility. How do you prove...is? That is why it is called faith, and always will be faith. Proof involves some type of independent confirmation.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
What if one believes Christianity even though they do not want to?
[–]Yiggs 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
honestly, I don't even know HOW that would work.
[–]Uberche 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Fear
[–]Tself 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
You do not choose to be an atheist, but you can choose to open your mind and be educated about religion/science...which usually leads to secularism.
[–]Lodur -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 months ago
Why is that an issue? Christianity can give someone tangible benefits which may make believing worth it. Atheism gives you something that you find good, so you are involved in this subreddit.
For those who get nothing from either group go 'fuck it' and do something else, ignoring both sides.
[–]sapienwaste 18 points19 points20 points 10 months ago
This isn't about what makes your life feel awesome. This is about what is reality.
[–]WereAboutToArgue 6 points7 points8 points 10 months ago
Because as a group, believers on one side can shape and enforce social issues that negatively effect the other. It's not something that simply benefits the individual; it's a prevailing attitude that reaches across communities.
[–]stinkyp00t 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Christianity can give someone tangible benefits
Prove it.
[–]kral2 9 points10 points11 points 10 months ago
Well, for one, you can be elected president of America.
[–]stinkyp00t 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
Well played.
[–]IConrad 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
More importantly; demonstrate that those individual benefits outweigh the total social cost of Christian belief.
[–]redditacct 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
That is my contention, that the people that christianity has targeted, tortured, enslaved, destroyed their culture/history (Easter Island being one example) and/or made to suffer for being sinners or blasphemers or whatever far outweigh any social good.
[–]IConrad 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
While looking to the past is certainly demonstrative of past harm, I believe it is unnecessary to demonstrate that even today the balance of religiosity is negative in utility.
[–]redditacct 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
I guess I am including abortion clinic workers, gays, and all others persecuted by current (and past 50 or 60 years) of Christianity.
[–]ptsaq 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
I think they are implying that if their belief in Christianity gives them a moral compass or inner strength to accomplish something they would otherwise feel unable to do without God being with them. Tangible to them. In that case, whether God exists is almost irrelevant since the belief in him being there may give someone the intestinal fortitude to take a chance for the positive. It is kind if like a safety net that allows people to do something they think they could not do on "their own".
[–]RedAero 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Mental placebo.
That's cute and all but tangible means tangible. Tangibility is not subjective. It either is or it isn't.
I agree, but if the entity that would in a tangible result is debatable would not the tangible result itself be subjective?
[–]stinkyp00t 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
would not the tangible result itself be subjective
Not according to the dictionary.
[–]ptsaq -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
tangible can also be subjective. If I feel like I proved my point here, as far as I would like to, I may feel a tangible satisfaction without any need to verify that result by an admission that I was correct. I do not think tangible has to be something you can hold up and show, it may, but can also be a mental satisfaction. Which may not be seen, felt or agreed by all
tangible can also be subjective
Actually, it can't. You clearly have no idea what tangible means. Thanks for playing. Crack a book and try again sometime.
[–]ptsaq -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago*
The result...is real, hence tangible. The reason for the result is what is subjective. Therefore the actual result as tangible is subjective to if you believe in the causation. If a person accomplishes something, that is real. If they believe they accomplish this as a result of God, that is a tangible result of their belief in God. If the existence of God is subjective, which it obviously is, then the result by the nature of the means to achieve that result is subjective. A religious person may see not dying a car accident they are involved in, while others do, as a tangible result of their prayers and faith. A non believer would most likely state this is a not a result of anything, just happenstance therefore not a tangible result of anything. A dead body vs. a live body would be a tangible result. You're assuming that God is not real, therefore there can be no tangible result. If that is your assumption then this entire debate is pointless. You have to, for the sake of the argument, assume God is real somewhat to even debate. You're stating a person who claims this type of situation as a tangible result is false b/c their belief system is false, not b/c there is no tangible result. You're arguing that someone's tangible result is not real b/c they assign it to God which would make it an actual tangible result of belief. The original claim was Wait...isn't the religious person supposed to be the close minded moron?
You didn't read the definition did you?
Wow, just wow. You obviously did not read anything I wrote. This is pointless. You cannot possible be this pathetically stupid. This is not even about religion, simple reading comprehension. Please get your troll stupidity away from me. close minded fail
[–]redditacct 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago*
The history of the Southern USA, is proof - they used the bible as an excuse to enslave people and get their labor for free, later (to present time) they use it to create stratified social classes, which if you are in the strata(s) chosen by god then there are tangible benefits of having a manufactured underclass - manufactured by the bible/christian leaders/christianity.
[–]YesImSardonic 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
they used the bible as an excuse to enslave people
Secularists of the time weren't exactly paragons of egalitarianism, either. Just read Thomas Jefferson. It's fucking disgusting.
[–]Lodur 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Rely on a belief system to give you the courage to do something you're uncomfortable with? A sense of community? A feeling that life isn't a shitty, short, brutal thing to endure which almost all of us piss away?
Maybe a small feeling of forgiveness, even when you know you're being irrational and stupid for wanting to be forgiven for something like being broken?
Just because you elect to use Atheism as your internal drive and way to keep you feeling like the world isn't shit because you can reason your way out of feeling bad doesn't mean everyone else can. And placebos have tangible benefits. If I want to take the placebo, like hell you can tell me not to.
I never told you not to. While I do recommend against it, I was merely making a tongue-in-cheek remark that most of the theists posting in this thread (including yourself) never bothered to look up the definition of tangible.
Those tangible benefits can be found through other means that don't involve a bunch of hokum. There are secular avenues to everything a religion offers outside of what is offered in dogma.
[–]MrChaoticfist -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
Why is that an issue? Cocaine can give someone tangible benefits which may make using worth it. Christianity gives you something that you find good, so you are involved in that subreddit.
I never said cocaine was bad, nor any drugs. They can give tangible benefits which outweigh the costs.
[–]Leroytankin 88 points89 points90 points 10 months ago
The people in /r/christianity are actually quite more open minded than your average Christian.
[–]prattja8 244 points245 points246 points 10 months ago
And the winners of the special Olympics are pretty athletic compared to the average.
[–]I_RAPE_GUINEAPIGS 53 points54 points55 points 10 months ago
Oh god I laughed.
[–]jakebluu 37 points38 points39 points 10 months ago
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU RAPE A GUINEA PIG?
[–]Kliffoth 18 points19 points20 points 10 months ago*
You have to wrap duct tape around them so they don't explode...
or so I've heard.
*edit: spelling
[–]5in1K 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Mancow?
[–]dietotaku 32 points33 points34 points 10 months ago
very carefully.
[–]Phar-a-ON 12 points13 points14 points 10 months ago
this kills the rodent.
[–]sirus20x6 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOT RAPE A GUINEA PIG?
[–]DaffyDuck 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
They may be consenting and he just doesn't understand them.
[–]confusionion 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Very small penis.
[–]ConstipatedNinja 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
You asked for it.
[–]Teacup_Kitsune 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
That's it, enough internet today. Caio
[–]jakebluu 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
WHAT THE FUCK AAHGHAHAHAHHHHH WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST SEE HOLY SHIT!
[–]allegedlyyours 7 points8 points9 points 10 months ago
logged back in to upvote and then feel terribly about upvoting.
[–]prattja8 -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
well played sir, well played.
[–]atrocity_exhibition 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Soda-out-the-nose...
[–]pjdog -32 points-31 points-30 points 10 months ago
I logged in just to say fuck you!
Well....
Fuck you
[–][deleted] -21 points-20 points-19 points 10 months ago
Chesterton's mind is, without question, far more brilliant than yours. Oh, you simply made the intellectual decision to become atheist? How challenging that must have been! That is something I managed to do as a young teenager and hardly speaks to one's abilities. How enlightened you must be! How did you ever manage to climb that mountain?!
[–]prattja8 10 points11 points12 points 10 months ago
I assume you're referring to GK Chesterton, but I'm not sure why that's relevant (especially considering he is an anti-intellectual douche). The OP was about open mindedness not intellect or ability, nor is making a spiritual decision a contest. But since you brought it up in such a context, what do you think takes more critical thinking: To obey whatever cult your parents indoctrinated you into or to actually read the religious text and decide for yourself to believe it based on evidence?
[–]BigTimer5 -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
The latter, but the thing is hardly any decide for themselves. I WAS no exception. I never really bought into religion but became full blown atheist after some mild brainshampooing, which I later broke from.
[–]prattja8 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
but the thing is hardly any decide for themselves
Utter ignorance. I'm afraid this is a straw man religious people love to use, not a single atheist I know has become atheist without significant thought and/or critical thinking. Many at the peril of their family relationships with still more wishing it were true like a child learning about santa claus.
I don't care what you did personally, I dont care about your personal relationships with whatever god or gods you hope exists. I care about reasonable evidence to support the truth of your claims; the likes of which you do not possess.
[–]BigTimer5 -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago
I should not have said that hardly any, BUT out of the multi-handfuls that I do know and am familiar with, they at least started out gobbling up everything they heard like ramen.
[–]YesImSardonic 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Chesterton's mind is, without question, far more brilliant than yours.
An appeal to authority? I haven't seen that fallacy in ages!
Oh, you simply made the intellectual decision to become atheist?
No, actually, I became one when the evidence for theism was demonstrated to be nonexistent.
How challenging that must have been!
Red herring. The challenge of the thing is irrelevant, not that it was particularly easy, mind.
That is something I managed to do as a young teenager
Ad hominem. Neither your nor prattja8's ages are relevant.
How enlightened you must be!
Sarcastic insult. Damages ethos.
How did you ever manage to climb that mountain?!
What mountain?
[–]d00m3d_d00d 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
Its the extremists that we dislike. Most extremists are too dumb to use a computer, thats why they're extremists.
[–]unearth52 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
We dislike moderates too, if you subscribe to the Sam Harris school of thought.
[–]mopecore 13 points14 points15 points 10 months ago
This is true.
But it isn't really saying much, is it?
[–]Leroytankin 26 points27 points28 points 10 months ago
Actually it is, MOST Christians in my experience are pretty decent people. My entire family is christian and has been ok with my atheism.
[–]mopecore 32 points33 points34 points 10 months ago
"Most christians in your experience" are not "most christians". There are, I'm sure, hundreds of thousands (if not more) perfectly pleasant, reasonable christians. Their decency is largely either unrelated to, or in spite of their superstition.
The disposition of "most christians" is irrelevant, christianity is intolerant, exclusionary, vicious, and, most importantly of all, not a remotely accurate reflection of reality.
I've heard this so many times, but why exactly is a Christian's positive qualities unrelated to and despite their religion, while all of their negative qualities are because of it?
We're atheists, we love evidence. Is there any reason at all to think that religion causes these things?
[–]mopecore 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
I never said all of their negative qualities were the product of their religion. Religion does foster some negative traits though, by it's insular nature and inability to tolerate skepticism.
I'm pretty certain religion fosters the intolerance of a lack of religion. We can also point to the various executions for heresy over the centuries.
And you would be pointing out correlations, and in no way demonstrating causation. Do religions foster intolerance for the lack of religion, or does everyone have an instinct to dislike people who aren't like them? I can guarantee you more people have been executed for heresy because they practiced a religion differently than the mainstream than were executed because they were an open atheist. Atheists are really good at spotting logical fallacies when it doesn't involve atheism.
And you would be pointing out correlations, and in no way demonstrating causation.
Perhaps for heathens. Monotheism seems to correlate with religious intolerance quite tightly.
Do religions foster intolerance for the lack of religion, or does everyone have an instinct to dislike people who aren't like them?
Without religion, there's no religion to quabble over. It's sort of tautological, but there you have it.
I can guarantee you more people have been executed for heresy because they practiced a religion differently than the mainstream than were executed because they were an open atheist.
This I'll grant you, if only because atheism was at the time nigh unheard-of. It's interesting to note, however, that Christians were condemned in Rome for being atheists, and the obviously-theistic Socrates, as well.
My point about the heretics was that without religion there are no differences in religion to fight over, and no appeals to deity to back up irrational hatred.
But none of this means that religion actually causes conflicts (even though I always thought the Socrates atheism bit was funny).
Monotheism seems to correlate with religious intolerance quite tightly.
I understand there might be a tight correlation, but even tight correlation doesn't prove causation.
no appeals to deity to back up irrational hatred
The irrational hatred is there, and people back it up however they can. People have fought over lots of things in the past, and again, just because people fight over religion, that doesn't mean people fight because of religion. I know it's really intuitively appealing to think so, but the reason people stress that correlation does not equal causation is because it's really intuitive to think so.
[–]ScizRGaming -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 months ago
Super intolerant
"No matter who you are, if you accept the lord as your savior, you will be saved"
Fuck that intolerance!
"But, if you don't accept it, if the whole proposition sounds ridiculous to you, or if you have the misfortune of being born into a time and place where Christianity isn't the accepted superstition, then fuck you in ass. With fire. Forever.
Oh, also, if you don't buy this ridiculous fairy tale, you're the worst kind of person."
Here's an analogue for you: among the interwar (between the first and second World Wars) authoritarian conservative dictatorships, dissent was crushed, but the politically neutral were left alone. You could run a business, raise your kids, etc., if you would just not rock the boat. Germany under National Socialism and the USSR under Stalin changed this, and not only crushed dissent, but demanded that all citizens actively support the ruling party; if you weren't with them, you were an enemy. Now, Hitler had ethnic and racial restrictions (to put it mildly), but in Stalin's Russia, all you had to was accept and support the socialist revolution and the Communist Party, and you would be saved... from deportation and/or execution. I hope you can see the connection here. Are we do consider Stalinism As tolerant?
[–][deleted] -13 points-12 points-11 points 10 months ago
You just sounded outrageously intolerant.
[–]dementedsnake 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
I don't see how....
[–]mopecore 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
I "tolerate" theism just fine, though I find it contemptible, and in no way respect it.
[–]Nosyarg_Kcid -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 months ago
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Christianity is very tolerant. It's just that the loudest voices are the ones most often heard. These views do not represent the views of any intelligent Christian I have ever spoken to.
[–]RedAero 5 points6 points7 points 10 months ago
Christianity is very tolerant.
Christians might be very tolerant, but Christianity is as intolerant as any religion, if not more so. Reference: old testament, specifically the role of women.
[–]Nosyarg_Kcid 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
You have to remember that many instances of intolerance in the old testament where negated by the new covenant with Jesus Christ. True Christians should realize that Christ spoke a message of tolerance, love, and forgiveness. Personally I believe Jesus would be very unhappy with the intolerance that has been committed in His name...Like flipping over tables and hitting people with a whip unhappy.
[–]Izicata 7 points8 points9 points 10 months ago
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)
"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)
The old testament is still binding, and will be binding until the earth is destroyed. All scripture is literal and should be taught, as it is all inspired by god.
[–]Nosyarg_Kcid 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago*
I agree with you that the scripture of the old testament is binding, but Christ's orders are binding as well. Humanity does not reserve the authority to judge another's sins for we possess sin ourselves and are unworthy of doing such. This requires us to be tolerant of things we do not agree with.
[–]Izicata 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
The Bible requires you to be intolerant. Anyone who worships any gods but your god must be killed.
Exodus 22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 “If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness. The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
Not only that, but Leviticus 18:22 states "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
You are commanded by the bible to be intolerant.
Matthew 5:18-19 Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.
So, it seems pretty clear that all of the hatred and violence of the OT is still in play, no?
[–]Nosyarg_Kcid 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.
In the Kingdom of Heaven, not on Earth. Humans are not the judge, Jesus is. Humans are required to be tolerant because we do not have the authority, or wisdom to judge others.
That sentence follows from the first, which is to say that Mosaic law is still effective.
These views do not represent the views of any intelligent Christian I have ever spoken to.
Right, because your average, intelligent, compassionate christian doesn't actually take their religion very seriously, or explore its tenets very deeply.
Let's assume the core of christianity is correct, there is a heaven and a hell. "Good" people go to heaven, and the only way to get to heaven is through devotion to and acceptance of christ as savior. Therefore, christian doctrine is infinitely intolerant of everyone who doesn't accept its dogma.
Modern christian sects have softened their deity, and have created a fuzzier, cuddlier god, but their bible, the source of their belief system is extremely clear: those who do not accept the dogma as literal truth will burn, and they will deserve it.
That isn't terribly tolerant to me.
Also, consider groups like WBC. Of course, their views don't align with mainstream christians, but what label would you apply to people the WBC? What modifier is most commonly applied to describe their brand of christianity? They aren't called "anomalous christians" or "divergent christians," but "fundamentalist" or "extremist" christians, and for good reason.
[–]nigganigga -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago
I find their reflection of reality is the least important of all actually...
That tolerate some looney ideas and acts
[–][deleted] 10 months ago
[deleted]
[–]tracerbullet__pi 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
I've always wondered whether or not religion is the cause of this. Do their beliefs cause this hatred? Or is religion just an excuse for people to be hateful?
[–]CodeRedFox 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago*
Depends if your religion for example says rape is ok because woman are things and should have no rights then yes its religion. If your religion say homosexuals are bad in one tiny area of a huge book and you make it the main point of your presidential bid then no its because that person is a piece of shit.
[–]BigTimer5 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Which many times is the result of brainwashing and social conditioning.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago*
Both. Our morals are shaped by societal pressures and parental upbringing. If you hated group X for whatever (ir)rational reason, and everybody told you that belief was despicable, or if it was like murder and rape where everybody being disgusted by it is taken as red, then you're going to be more likely to reevaluate that line of thinking or at least keep it out of polite conversation.
Meanwhile, if your society encourages this thinking (race-based apartheid laws), or at least doesn't stop it ("love the sinner, hate the sin") then you're fostering this sort of belief.
Religion in many parts of the world is still a major force in the morals and values of a society. For example, even moderate Christianity in the United States still teaches that homosexuality is wrong (and then weasels out of it by saying homsexuals aren't evil, just the sex) which means that there isn't really any backlash or admonishing of holding bigoted beliefs against them and these beliefs are allowed to remain and grow.
Granted, this doesn't make bigotry an exclusively religious thing, and I don't think any rational person would argue that it does, but religions aren't helping things any given their inherent focus on tradition and source-books that contain some pretty vile stuff.
[–]strategosInfinitum 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
They are decent in spite of their Christianity not because of it
[–]HPDerpcraft 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Reddit is typically more progressive and educated than the average internets. It makes them nice people, but it doesn't make their beliefs any less absurd. I would retreat into shrubbery too, and I'm a recovering Catholic.
[–]Tself 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago
The last conversation I just had in there involved people thinking homosexuality is a choice and that death is unnatural.
[–]aijoe 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago*
Can you demonstrate that the average person in r/Christianity is more open minded than Christians in general? I'm just curious to know what the methodology is for determining what the openmindedness of a group of people is and what your sample size was. Note: Not claiming you are wrong or right till I know how you arrived at this conclusion.
[–]Mordred19 7 points8 points9 points 10 months ago
that's basically what I did when a theist said that god was an example of a great scientist.
[–]themcp 24 points25 points26 points 10 months ago
I remember when I was a kid, some friends took me to church to try to get me converted. I made the mistake of thinking it was a conversation, in which people discuss and care about factual correctness, and I talked back to the preacher who was trying to convert me. At one point I quoted Asimov about something (I forget what but it was a pretty tame point of fact) and I was told very firmly that Asimov was a liar and wrong about everything he said about anything and I was NOT PERMITTED TO MENTION HIM AGAIN IN THAT CHURCH.
I will remember it forever. That was the very moment I realized that religion is a form of mass insanity and that religious zealots are dangerous people regardless of what religion and vowed that I will never ever be religious like that.
I stood up and walked out of the place, in genuine fear that these nutballs might harm me if I stayed and tried to talk to them.
[–]shawnpeps[S] 9 points10 points11 points 10 months ago
I don't know everybody seems to think I think the people there are shitty or bad people. All I did was post the photo as a joke. I thought it was funny.
What made me post it were the first two threads I saw - one more or less talking about how the Plan B pill is bad and the other how atheists are annoying and don't let them explain themselves.
I'm sure they're fine people and I'm sure the subreddit is fine - just not for me. Please don't take what I posted so out of context.
[–]6ix5hooter 5 points6 points7 points 10 months ago
Upvoted for using my favorite Simpsons moments.
[–]johnsmithindustries 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
[–]joeknowswhoiam 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago
1F14, Season 5 Episode 16, "Homer loves Flanders".
Homer: Hey! What's up for today, Neddy? Ned: Uh, er, Homer, we're gonna visit the boys' grandmother. Family only, you know? Homer: Right! No reporters. Ned: No, I, I...I mean just the Flanders family. Homer: [slowly] Oh, OK. [goes back through the hedge] Todd: Oh boy! Grandma! Ned: We're not goin' anywhere. Todd: But you said -- Ned: Er...sometimes to keep from hurting someone's feelings, you have to say things that aren't exactly -- Rod: Lies make baby Jesus cry.
Homer: Hey! What's up for today, Neddy?
Ned: Uh, er, Homer, we're gonna visit the boys' grandmother. Family only, you know?
Homer: Right! No reporters. Ned: No, I, I...I mean just the Flanders family.
Homer: [slowly] Oh, OK. [goes back through the hedge]
Todd: Oh boy! Grandma!
Ned: We're not goin' anywhere.
Todd: But you said --
Ned: Er...sometimes to keep from hurting someone's feelings, you have to say things that aren't exactly --
Rod: Lies make baby Jesus cry.
I wonder if the OP meant to post it knowing the context of this scene and the last line ;)
[–]shawnpeps[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
I think it's this one
Not 100% sure though.
[–]joeknowswhoiam 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Pretty sure it's not, I've just verified :) But that's not the first time I see this one mentioned for this GIF :)
[–]yossariancc 6 points7 points8 points 10 months ago
how many people have been tortured or killed over GameofThrones or doctorwho so far in history? Granted Christianity has had a head start, but I still don't see the others catching up.
I read some pretty intense hyperbole about Joffrey on r/gameofthrones. I wonder sometimes if they're unable to distinguish between Joffrey and the actor who portrays him.
[–]moronic_comment 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Fuck that little shit, craven little fuc...I think I see your point.
The actor was bloody perfect. I've only seen one other person able to extrude shit from his pores and pull that kind of hatred out of people.
Pls explain how Doctor Who fans are fighting tooth an nail to prevent us from dealing with climate change? And the Game of Thrones guys... they must be the ones telling starving Africans not to use condoms.
[–]hungrierdave 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Neddy? Neeeeddy!
[–]tHeSiD 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
You should go check out r/islam.
[–]Tactic11 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Nothing is as bad as r/conservative. They're extremely Christian, hateful, and ignorant.
[–]moneyeagle 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
after I saw this I was quite suprised to find this
[–]Xok234 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Okay, just went in there to see what it was all about. Not to sound disrespectful, but holy crap. I cringed. This is so true.
[–]fuzzymechy 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
you know what's funny? I've begun to enjoy r/christianity because it challenges me to think past shitty straw-man type arguments. and most people there are really nice
[–]PackOfHighly 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
So you backed into it and found yourself quickly absorbed by it?
[–]MegaZeusThor 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Ask them an open ended question about the bible and see how many answer you get. Or about gay rights.
[–]prattja8 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
agreed, there are a lot of people in that subreddit. But the most vocal are just as apologist towards immoral behavior as any other idiotic cult when you push them.
[–]mopecore 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Yeah, its pretty fucking scary in there.
[–]ukstubbs 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
my first reaction was laughter then realisaition im the same species then dissapointment
[–]mattj7 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
seeing this made me aware that there was an r/christianity, so naturally I checked it out out of curiosity. Then I did that^
[–]LionSlayer 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
I would say a majority of Christians are very open minded - its just the shitheads from places like Westboro that get the most attention.
[–]pablothe 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
I just went to r/christianity and most of the posts are about people doubting about their faith :)
[–]Tyrant84 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
If you play it backwards you can see your only trip out of it as well.
[–]Valknut 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
I laughed very hard at this! +1 Internets to you, sir!
[–]The_Meek -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 months ago
I disagree with this. r/Christianity is actually a fantastic and open minded subreddit.
[–]Tself 36 points37 points38 points 10 months ago
I was told yesterday on there that to live a better life I should never have sex again. I'm a homosexual.
[–]The_Meek 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
There will always be those people. But to me, as an atheist, I get a great deal of respect and I have had numerous productive discussions.
[–]Tself 9 points10 points11 points 10 months ago
Well yes if you show respect you will get it back, but that doesn't mean their answers are open minded. I agree the conversation is polite, but a lot of the things they say are just ridiculous.
Obviously both are just generalizations though.
[–]The_Meek 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Yes, there are a lot of ridiculous things. But there are also a lot of not ridiculous things(Pro-choice, separation of church and state, anti-capital punishment, anti-Hell, etc.)
[–]Tself 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Aye, that is CERTAINLY not all of them though. Those would be quite a small portion of Christians right there. Especially since all of those points directly go against the bible (possibly besides abortion).
[–]YummyMeatballs 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Perhaps they meant with a woman. Y'know because you're gay and you'd not like that.
They were just looking out for you!
Already well aware, those things can give you babies n shit.
Well, the shit you can get from a partner of any sex.
[–]achingchangchong 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Was that really the most upvoted answer?
Well I had a few answers since my question was just a reply to another comment. All of the responses at least said homosexuality was a choice. Of course this doesn't encompass ALL the people on r/christianity, but shows there are definitely some ignorant people on there.
You might have better luck submitting your question as its own post. The more ignorant fundamentalist types tend to enter threads late.
Really the point of my question was to make a point actually heh. It was off some other fundies' comment comparing homosexuality to murder and stealing. So I used the Socratic method but then got even more ignorant responses.
[–]IConrad 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Unless you state you're an atheist, or just object to the mythos in a defineable way. In which case you'll be banned from the subreddit. Seen it happen more times than I can count.
[–]The_Meek 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
I have an atheist flair....its all about being polite
[–]shawnpeps[S] 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago
Disagree with me on what?
[–]The_Meek -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago
Your post implies that r/Christianity is bad. I disagree.
[–]shawnpeps[S] 6 points7 points8 points 10 months ago
How? It's just not for me. The first few posts I saw really turned me off.
I have had numerous extremely productive discussions on r/Christianity. I skip the bible thumping ones and go for the philosophical ones.
Open minded as in they are open minded to facts, or are they open minded like accepting Allah as their lord, or visnu as lord? How open minded?
Open minded about facts and non Christian ideas.
[–]Minxie -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
r/christianity seems to be a lovely community to me, where they talk about Christianity. You think your subredit is better?
[–]r3dd1t0r77 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
I'm sure r/ibelieveinsanta is a pleasant place, as well, but some people like to stick with reality.
[–]helphowdoilogin -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago
Yeah? This is my first time checking out the Atheism subreddit and unfortunately its pretty much exactly what I expected - mindless circlejerking and meme pictures like this one. I've been an atheist all my life and their subreddit comes across a fraction as pathetic as this one does.
[–]DiversityOfThoughts 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Lemme guess, you're stuck on the hot page. Advice from a regular, avoid it. Stay in new. When the influx of new people calms down the quality of the posts will increase. I am here for the threads asking for debating help. I like to hear new arguments.
[–]Dysillusional -9 points-8 points-7 points 10 months ago
exactly how I feel in r/atheism
[–]GreetingsIcomeFromAf 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
Why?
[–]thechapattack -11 points-10 points-9 points 10 months ago*
Read most of the posts in this thread and you should see. I am atheist but this self righteous fucking attitude I see on r/atheism is way more than I have EVER seen a Christian in my life act
[–]alacrity 7 points8 points9 points 10 months ago
That is patently not true. Just pure nonsense. Perhaps you're just attuned to or more accepting of the fuckton of self righteousness oozing from the pores of the average Christian, but while I see attitude and self righteousness at times here, the same way you see it everywhere, the religious pretty much corner the market there and are the pro leagues compared to everyone else's double AA ball.
Sorry, but I grew up religious and have maintained friendships with people now who are religious. They are on a whole nother level that just can't be compared to any other self righteousness.
[–]wonkifier 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago
Heh, you shoulda been at the Baptist school I went to as a kid.
We used to laugh about the Catholics down the street, and how stupid they were because they sprinkled water and worshipped idols. Like they'd ever get into heaven. ha ha.
Some of us are reacting to some serious shit, and we can't do it in our real lives.
[–]acemnorsuvwxz 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
I'm going back to the moderation of r/pics.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
I used to hate atheists because of their incredible arrogance as well when I was a Christian. Now that I'm an atheist, whenever someone tells me they're religious, it's like all his credibility is suddenly stripped away. I automatically get this condescending attitude towards the religious person because I feel his understanding of life is an order of magnitude more wrong than mine.
Yeah atheist build giant milliondollar mega churches in poverty stricken areas to speak in tongues and meet up every Sunday, Wednesday, and build schools to indoctrinate their children into a voting block. Yeah r/atheist are friggin crazy zealots. Or maybe there just aren't that many outlets and after spending the day in a Christian nation(I'm from the south) they enjoy a little sanity. Personally I think the antitheist zealot approach is about 2000 years overdue. It may be a tad hypocritical but I prefer a balancing test, and well the second coming and WMDs dint mix, especially watching the news lately, so have at r/atheist let's put on white shirts, and ride bikes asking all in our path if they've heard about Socrates, pass out Carl Sagan Cosmos CDs at every school. I'm down if you are.
[–]thechapattack -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
I would actually support passing out Cosmos cd's haha. I get it I really do, but I am simply saying that being assholes is not how you fucking change politics because the simple fact is anyone from the outside will just see this as immature bickering. Why not better articulate the message so it reaches more people? You can lure a whole lot more flies with sugar than vinegar.
[–]Zer0xDae -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 months ago
I like how - similar to most Christians - most Atheists couldn't defend their positions on not believing any better than just using B.S examples like evolution to support their arguments. Yet! They are perfectly willing to insult Christians as if they possess more sound arguments. Every belief system is going to have people who abuse it; and every belief system is bound to contain blind-followers and morons.
P.S: I'm a Christian who believes in evolution, doesn't give a flying damn if you're a homosexual, doesn't think religion should be forced on kids, and agrees that religion shouldn't be used as a tool to gain support in a political sense.
[–]man_gaga 7 points8 points9 points 10 months ago
I think the problem with the assertion that most atheists couldn't defend their not believing is the implicit assumption that we have something to defend. Lacking belief in anything is the default position, whether it be evolution, religion, or the superiority of your favorite sports team. Until evidence is provided, it's just conjecture.
[–]IConrad 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
Evolution has nothing to do with atheism; and atheism predates all notion of evolution by several centuries if not millennia.
Atheism is not a belief system.
There is no meaningful method of defending an absence of a position.
Re: your "PS" -- you do realize how much of the scripture you're stating you hold positions in direct contradiction of, yes? Why bother with the label at all if you're going to redefine it into something wholly unrelated to what its doctrinal texts demand it be?
I never stated that evolution was directly tied to Atheism. I was just pointing out that it was one of the more frequently used examples to 'ridicule' Christianity.
You claimed that atheists 'defended their positions' with evolution. I noted the lack of correlation between the two.
It is a belief system. You believe that there is no God, you don't know that there is no God.
Leaving aside the fact that I am a gnostic atheist, everything about your statement here is wrong.
A specific belief is not a belief system.
The absence of a belief is not itself a belief.
Atheism is not a belief system: it is a term denoting the conditional state of failing to believe in a deity.
Not sure how to reply.
So I gather. And yet you continue as though the statement had not been made to you: there is no eaningful method of defending an absence of a position.
The Bible is merely people's interpretations,
No. The Bible is a specific collection of texts which were specified as of the Nicene Council.
there are a lot of inconsistencies and seemingly ridiculous stories.
That is absolutely true, and absolutely not my problem -- it's yours. The mere fact that you must engage in cognitive dissonance to affirm that you are a Christian has little to nothing to do with my paradigm or life, aside from how you and others like you interfere with it (it being my life).
When I say I don't give a flying damn if you are a homosexual, that is not because I think it is OK, it's because it's stated that you are not suppose to lay judgments on others (John 8:7 states it pretty well).
Heh. It's amusing you would go to that one, considering it's pretty widely recognized that the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" parable is a forgery that was inserted centuries later.
It's just the (relatively) rare fundamentalist Christians that are stupid enough to ignore the evidence provided to them.
Cute. You're the one doing most of that from where I can see, but then, it's only an extra 10% over what those 'fundamentalists' are doing.
I'm not sure where exactly I'm contradicting the scripture, would you mind showing me?
There are too many places to even begin listing.
You are not hating all those who refuse to put Jesus first in your life.
You are not a slave owner, nor have you beaten any slaves who disobeyed you sufficiently severely that they died three days later.
You wear modern clothing.
You own material wealth several orders of magnitude greater than the poor of today possess.
You do not advocate becoming a Christian to anyone who gives you the slightests opportunity.
You support gender equality.
You do not live your life in accordance with "Old Testament" laws, despite Jesus's specific admonition that they would continue to apply until the end of time.
Etc., etc., etc.. This conversation is boring to me now, however, so I'm not going to bother responding again.
[–]heres_the_video_clip -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
http://tinyurl.com/3fxqr62
16:50
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
I knew what was coming and I still laughed. Thank you. :)
[–]Tritonio -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
I didn't have to know that there is a /r/christianity... Cannot resist now...
[–]nightzirk 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Please don't go there to troll. Either just lurk or post constructive comments. Don't be an asshole.
[–][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points 10 months ago
My first trip into r/athiesm.
There is a lot of bitching here and not much actual discussion.
[–]EmptyAndFrantic 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago*
I agree with aggatt that, if you want some "actual discussion," there are other places you can find it.
r/atheistgems, for example, takes all the "good" content from r/atheism and posts it over there.
r/atheismbot is also good for the serious content on r/atheism.
r/DebateReligion is self-explanatory. We need more theists over there, too, so if that applies to you, it'd be good to have you.
r/freethought and r/skeptic aren't necessarily atheist subreddits, but they're related and more serious than r/atheism tends to be.
r/atheism's new page is usually better (or, at least, has more serious content) than it's front page, so drop by there sometime. Upvote the good stuff, start your own discussions.
As for why r/atheism might not be the quality subreddit you're looking for:
It's huge. The bigger a subreddit is, the less likely it is that the more intellectual stuff will make it to the top (unless maybe it's heavily moderated or will only draw people who want intellectual stuff). Most people just aren't interested in things they have to read or videos that are too long. I read a comment here once about how the "lowest common denominator" is what will make it to the front page: stuff that doesn't take long to read/watch, and stuff that makes people laugh. Plenty of us here do like more intellectual things, but we're over in /new or on the more "serious" subreddits. Also, you can find some intellectual comments even on posts that you don't think qualify as "actual discussion".
Also, the "bitching" you are referring to might be because there is a giant influx of people after this subreddit became a default. I know it's probably annoying, but there are a lot more people here that aren't reading the FAQ and are attacking (or trying, anyway) us for no real reason. It's annoying a lot of people here, so of course there's going to be "bitching". My guess is that it will slow down eventually.
I dunno. I hope some of that helped.
EDIT: Added links. :p
[–]aggatt 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago*
then go to r/debatereligion or something. This is a community for atheists, not a community where atheists spend all their time debating and defending themselves.
... there'd be more discussion if you would just stop bitching about how little discussion there is.
I was hoping the replies would be more intelligent, or offer some explanation. You're bitching at my bitching about bitching. Three wrongs don't make a right.
... you really expected anything other than a summary dismissal of your blatant concern trolling?
Really?
<le sigh>
[–]samisbond -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago
I felt this way for the "new" and "what's hot" comments. I think the top posts>all time are very civilized and thoughtful.
[–]fuzzymechy 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
that's HILARIOUS, in a sort of "ugh, damn it, that shouldn't be funny, but is" sort of way.
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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