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[–]fobygrassman 92 points93 points ago

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Nope. Its about choice the one on the left is free to wear whatever she pleases the one on the right is forced to wear what shes wearing.

[–]imaginarygods 41 points42 points ago

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No, the one on the right can choose from various shades of black.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points ago

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I've seen some wearing shades of blue, psh.... sluts.

[–]czechreck 24 points25 points ago

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Kinky. I once went to see a Muslim striptease show, everyone was yelling 'SHOW US YOUR FACE!!!'

[–]Neotyguy40 18 points19 points ago

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I'm more of an ankle person.

[–]tymmbee 22 points23 points ago

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Pervert.

[–]meatbongos -1 points0 points ago

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Upvotes for this whole thread haha

[–]JihadDerp 0 points1 point ago

Way to keep it going.

[–]sandybell751 -1 points0 points ago

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They do checkered red/white in Syria! THOSE HARLOTS!

Edit: They used to until the 90s ended.

[–]FriedMattato 11 points12 points ago

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Is it black? Or is it a slightly DARKER black?

I bought 10.

[–]zpxocivubyntmrlekwjq 3 points4 points ago

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Everybody knows the only true black is the heart of a dragon.

[–]fallens -3 points-2 points ago

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There's no such thing as a shade of black, just shades of gray.

[–]puffyjenkins 0 points1 point ago

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I think you went a bit too literal for this comment thread.

[–]fallens 0 points1 point ago

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Anti-joke chicken

[–]thenarwhalthatbacons 19 points20 points ago

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Some women do choose to wear a burka or similar dress, but there are many women who are forced to wear oppressive clothing and they don't get to have that choice.

[–]anttirt 20 points21 points ago

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This should be a three-part comic.

In the second frame, both women don these clothes.

In the third frame, the western woman sits in a CEO's chair and the middle-eastern woman is buried up to her neck in a hole in the ground and is being stoned to death.

[–]Tastingo 6 points7 points ago

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woman sits in a CEO's chair

Then the CEO gets in and asks the woman to get out of his chair.

[–]OKImHere 16 points17 points ago

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How do you know the Muslim doesn't choose to wear that? Societal pressures don't just come from the men. They come from your mother, sisters, and aunts, too. When the whole society is telling you that this is proper and that isn't proper, it's no surprise that you'd start to think the same way.

US society teaches that a topless woman is not proper in pubilc. Does that mean that every woman with a shirt is being 'forced', as you put it, to wear what she's wearing?

I get the sense that you think that inside every burqa, there's an American dying to get out. It's simply not true.

[–]FuhQue 1 point2 points ago

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Some may choose and all are required in some societies. For example, in Saudi Arabia, it is preferable to allow children to burn to death than let them out in public without proper clothes.

[–]Quazz -4 points-3 points ago

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So you're saying that because they're brainwashed it's all ok?

At either rate, if both of them lost any clothing, only one of them would get stoned to death.

[–]OKImHere 7 points8 points ago

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They're brainwashed in the same way you're brainwashed into wearing pants.

[–]Quazz -2 points-1 points ago

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Yep, but you missed the point.

[–]JihadDerp -1 points0 points ago

And who do you think the mother, sisters, and aunts get it from? How come no women wear that in freer countries?

[–]OKImHere 0 points1 point ago

They do wear it in 'freer' countries. Where did you get the idea that they don't?

[–]JihadDerp 0 points1 point ago

Never seen one. And that metric is good enough for me lol

[–]CyraEm 6 points7 points ago

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It's not a real choice though. The virgin/whore dichotomy is alive and well. She can choose to cover up and be ignored, or to dress like that and have some semblance of leverage in social situations. Unfortunately the second option usually is partnered with a sense of contempt.

[–]PirateD00D 6 points7 points ago

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You're missing the point. The point is that male dominated culture has dictated what should be worn or not, not who has it worse than the other.

[–]SaintGenesius 5 points6 points ago

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Eh, social pressure being what they are blurs it (very) slightly, but you've definitely hit the issue squarely with that sentence.

[–]Smallpaul 1 point2 points ago

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The two women are on the same sidewalk. Therefore they are almost certainly in a country where they both have a legal right to wear the other person's clothing. They may prefer their own clothes for cultural reasons, or for comfort (emotional or physical). Or they may feel pressured into it.

[–]Tonkarz 1 point2 points ago

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In some of these cultures women aren't even allowed outside without a male relative.

[–]The419 3 points4 points ago

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Assume much?

[–]johnbentley 0 points1 point ago

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the one on the left is free to wear whatever she please

The one on the left is not free to go nude in (most) public areas. The one on the left is not free to go topless in the same areas that men are, in (most) public areas.

The difference of the restriction (and punishment) is quantitative not qualitative. This is not to assert a moral equivalence.

Both women, though, are subject to an unjust restriction on what they can wear, and there is a sexist component in both cases.

[–]morris198 -2 points-1 points ago

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Good. Being exposed to this ridiculous comic once again, I was going to get really indignant over its whole multicultural, two-sides of the same coin, Western women are as shackled as women in societies governed by Islamic fundamentalists, bullshit message. But, your comment is in the top spot and, despite a few apologists and "multiculturalism is the answer" far-Leftists whining, I'm feeling a lot better about things.

[–]n3hemiah[!] 39 points40 points ago

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So this is bullshit.

The cartoonist is implying an equivalence between Western and Islamic cultures. "See, we're all equal if we just account for our own biases! Westerners who criticize Islam are just close minded." It's an "enlightened" attempt at feeling superior to all sides.

Of course, the woman on the left won't be beaten with lengths of steel cable if she decides to wear a different outfit. The difference is so obvious it hurts.

[–]OKImHere 7 points8 points ago

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Then you should realize that your problem is with steel cable beatings, not with the dress. If there were no beatings, would the burka be OK?

[–]Jepumy 5 points6 points ago

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Assuming there wasn't the huge peer pressure to wear it. Obviously there's some peer pressure with other clothes too, but I'm talking about huge peer pressure. :P

Of course wearing burqas causes vitamin D deficiency, so if they're properly educated they should hopefully choose not to.

[–]follier 1 point2 points ago

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Having worked with conservative Muslim for some years, a few of whom wear a burka, I can tell you that they all did it out of choice, and expressed similar sentiments as the cartoon. One woman in particular, who's older sister chose not to wear a full cover (only hair) felt that it was the only self-respectful way to dress. If you asked her about social pressures, she would tell you that every single person she meets on a daily basis is pressuring her not to wear it.

They also had the same attitude with driving, which surprised me. They were appalled that in a supposedly enlightened nation such as the US, women were actually expected to drive themselves around. They considered this barbaric and insensitive.

I'm not saying there aren't Muslim women in bad (family) situations living in Western states. I'm just saying that it isn't the situation for most of them.

[–]FuhQue 1 point2 points ago

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I have to go with being forbidden to drive because of your sex is much worse than being expected to drive yourself around from time to time.

[–]James-Cizuz 0 points1 point ago

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Vitamin D deficiency is better then Vitamin Stone if you choose not to wear a burqa.

This is not peer pressure, this is "WHORE YOU WEAR IT OR YOU WILL BE STONED TO DEATH" and in a lot of countries is actual law.

[–]Jepumy 2 points3 points ago

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Did you even read the post above mine? It was a hypothetical about if that stuff didn't happen.

[–]n3hemiah[!] 1 point2 points ago

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Women can wear whatever they want, for all I care. The cartoonist is making a cultural statement, though, and it is absolutely incorrect.

[–]CalvinLawson 0 points1 point ago

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Shit, a slave collar and ball gag are OK as long as it's consensual.

[–]heavenlytoaster 4 points5 points ago

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That or its a jab at some sort of feminism across culture sort of nonsense. But that's probably expecting too much.

[–]follier 0 points1 point ago

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Having worked with conservative Muslim for some years, a few of whom wear a burka, I can tell you that they all did it out of choice, and expressed similar sentiments as the cartoon. One woman in particular, who's older sister chose not to wear a full cover (only hair) felt that it was the only self-respectful way to dress. If you asked her about social pressures, she would tell you that every single person she meets on a daily basis is pressuring her not to wear it.

They also had the same attitude with driving, which surprised me. They were appalled that in a supposedly enlightened nation such as the US, women were actually expected to drive themselves around. They considered this barbaric and insensitive.

I'm not saying there aren't Muslim women in bad (family) situations living in Western states. I'm just saying that it isn't the situation for most of them.

[–]helgaofthenorth 17 points18 points ago

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Why are people getting downvoted for getting it? I thought the idea was that women are objectified in both cultures, but Western women are ogled while Islamic women are hoarded.

[–]robbie9000 4 points5 points ago

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Because if you don't submit to the prevailing anti-theist dogma of this subreddit you get downvoted.

[–]JihadDerp -1 points0 points ago

If somebody posted to reddit, "Hey, gravity is all bullshit! All hail the lord and overseer, Kruckshnuffnuts! Therefore, women must wear sandpaper and gays are to be killed violently!" And I said, "Hey fucker, that makes no sense and you sound ridiculous!" Would you call me an anti-theist dogma lover, or pro-reason?

[–]eixan 0 points1 point ago

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Yeah maybe. I'd recognize this as a possible big problem but its fantantisically equating social pressure from magazines and tv to being disowned by your family, beaten, and possibly killed in islamic countries.

[–]Pinworm45 2 points3 points ago

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But that's a fucking ridiculous point, because the difference is so fucking obvious.

[–]Quazz 0 points1 point ago

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Heh, everyone gets objectified. Most of the time it's not even a bad thing in essence, everyone just seems to think so.

[–]Skibum04 -1 points0 points ago

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However the commic misses the point that there is a huge difference between the cultures and we are justified in saying one is in fact better than the other. This idea that both societies are equally wrong is ignorant.

[–]helgaofthenorth -1 points0 points ago*

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While I totally agree that it's not "equally wrong," the artist definitely has a point. I imagine women in both cultures have resigned themselves to their situation, and even enjoy it. I'm American, and I know women who take full advantage of being objectified.

edit: wasn't finished. stupid iPhone!

[–]a_bawdon 20 points21 points ago

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At least the one in the bikini won't face punishment for dressing differently.

[–]Skibum04 4 points5 points ago

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She also still probably has her clit.

[–]JihadDerp 0 points1 point ago

Not an Islamic practice. Cultural in predominantly Muslim areas, but not Islamic. Get it right.

[–]Smallpaul 3 points4 points ago

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The two women are on the same sidewalk. Therefore they are almost certainly in a country where they both have a legal right to wear the other person's clothing. They may prefer their own clothes for cultural reasons, or for comfort (emotional or physical). Or they may feel pressured into it.

[–]The_Young_Contrarian 6 points7 points ago

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What would happen if the one on the right wore that outfit and walked down the streets of New York? Now what would happen if the one on the left wore her outfit and walked down the streets of Mecca?

[–]Supora 3 points4 points ago

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A woman showing some skin isn't evil. There is nothing wrong with the female body, even though people like to force women to cover theirs up. The fact that women have to cover their chests in the first place means that we live in a male dominated culture. Both women's bodies are controlled by men because they have to cover themselves up. Like they should be ashamed of their bodies.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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The fact that only one of these women can actually choose what to wear is just a minor detail.

[–]JihadDerp 0 points1 point ago

Shut up you anti-theist. You're so closed-minded! Gosh!

[–]fuzzymechy 2 points3 points ago

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kind of a good point, but on the other hand, the woman int he bikini probably won't be beaten or stoned if she puts on more clothes.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Anthet 1 point2 points ago

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Nah but hit over the head (at least in Saudi arabia when I lived there). The motawas would beat women that showed hair with sticks, my mom got a feel for that once or twice when she mistakenly let some hair fall out.

[–]fuzzymechy 0 points1 point ago

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depends on where you are. some places you genuinely will, others not. I'm assuming that we're talking about the uber-patriarchal Islamic countries

[–]Smallpaul 2 points3 points ago

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I think that there is more truth here than most acknowledge.

[–]kbox -1 points0 points ago

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There is no truth. The point has been made numerous times that one woman choses to wear what she is wearing and the other is forced. The comparison is so flawed that anyone who claims not to see it must be either retarded or a liar.

[–]Smallpaul 3 points4 points ago

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The two women are on the same sidewalk. Therefore they are almost certainly in a country where they both have a legal right to wear the other person's clothing. They may prefer their own clothes for cultural reasons, or for comfort (emotional or physical). Or they may feel pressured into it.

[–]James-Cizuz -4 points-3 points ago

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Doesn't work that way jim. Tell that women to choose not to go home to her husband in the burqa. Oh wait who was found dead stoned to death by an upset community?

They are scared to death to go anywhere without it. In their home countries it's a death sentence, here they are scared from the family most times.

[–][deleted] ago*

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[deleted]

[–]Anthet -1 points0 points ago

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Pretty much how brain washed housewives felt about the fight for womens suffrage back in the day. Just because you are brainwashed into thinking that you have to cover yourself up to be "pure" or have "dignity" doesnt make it so. Sometimes the oppressed (which women in these cultures obviously are) are so brainwashed they feel happy about it, or they are strong believers and need a way to justify their silly beliefs as something that is not evil.

[–]mathmexican4234 1 point2 points ago

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Idiotic comic. I don't understand how bikinis have anything to do with being a male dominated culture. In societies that are the most equal and free with the most female leaders, women still choose to wear bikinis, but the amount who freely choose to wear burqas without being brainwashed into religion is precisely zero.

[–]JihadDerp 0 points1 point ago

(I think it's poking fun at feminists who look at sexually liberated women and claim they're under control of "the patriarchy," because they have no fucking perspective about real freedom.)

[–]picimadar 0 points1 point ago

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This comic really pisses me off. One is 'male-dominated' by media, the other by religion. Two completely different and incomparable ideas.

[–]JihadDerp 0 points1 point ago

Yeah except a bunch of journalists aren't going to come smash your head in with rocks because you didn't cover the appropriate amount of skin. Religious zealots? They have a history...

[–]Skibum04 0 points1 point ago

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So female muslims are to dumb to know what sunglasses are?

[–]wheatus -2 points-1 points ago

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But which one is closer to the truth?

[–]cdavie5 -2 points-1 points ago*

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I think this would be more powerful if it juxtaposed stonings with anti-abortion legislation.

Edit: Please tell me you've all seen the reverse burka.

[–]nicelander -2 points-1 points ago

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THis is the repost of all reposts. I wish I had 666 downvotes for this. And this comparison is fucking stupid too.

[–]DeeBoFour20 -3 points-2 points ago

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You know I really don't understand why in any culture men don't want to see boobs...