all 174 comments

[–]Rajio 30 points31 points ago

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It can. it just wont.

[–]7ypo 6 points7 points ago

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[–]ascendingelephant 0 points1 point ago

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I know, as if they didn't just make a workaround like "Can I get directions to 123 anywhere st from here?"

Why didn't they just omit business information and forward all the business names/specific addresses to maps.app? Maps.app usually can look up the closest business name closest to the pointer with good consistency.

[–]NotYourMothersDildo 0 points1 point ago

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It is using internal maps and Yelp for places info, right? This seems like a total cop-out.

[–]MarzipanStar 45 points46 points ago

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I totally read that in HAL's voice.

"Give me directions to the airport!"

"I can't let you do that Kyle"

"@#$!"

[–]fasda 6 points7 points ago

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I read it in Cartman from South Park's voice.

[–]Mittens27 0 points1 point ago

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I know that you and Kyle were planning to disconnect me...

[–]fernguts -4 points-3 points ago

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Me too. I don't understand why you got downvotes.

[–]foreveronloan -2 points-1 points ago

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OH NO DOWNVOTES.

[–]perfecttttt 1 point2 points ago

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WHAT EVER WILL WE DO?

[–]MarzipanStar -3 points-2 points ago

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...accept it and move on?

[–]samandiriel 39 points40 points ago

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All this fuss over Siri, when you could have had it with Google's Android Voice commands over a year ago!

Plus, it DOES do Canadian navigation. WIN!

[–]Kinseyincanada 25 points26 points ago

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From what I have seen the voice commands are a lot better in Siri

[–]samandiriel 8 points9 points ago*

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Examples? I haven't seen anything yet that I can't do on my Android.

My favourite example of how great voice command is on Android is from when I got my og Droid. I told it to search the web for the Scottsdale PF Chang's phone number, then to call xxxyyyzzzz, then finally to GPS navigate to Scottsdale PF Chang's. Look ma, no hands!

I've heard that Vlingo's even better, but I've never felt the need to go beyond the stock app myself.

[–]owlmanatt 3 points4 points ago

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I've never tried it Android, but when I told Siri "send that shit", it got confused and started writing a new text.

I was not impressed!

[–]paffle 1 point2 points ago

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At least it didn't mail someone a turd.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]SquareWheel 26 points27 points ago

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Apple didn't develop Siri, they purchased them.

[–]geoken 7 points8 points ago

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That doesn't really change his argument. Whether they created or purchased the technology, the point is that they're usually not the first ones to implement it because they typically wont do something until they feel they can do it really well.

[–]swervm 3 points4 points ago

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The didn't even purchase it, the just licenced it from Vocera (?) which ironically is voice recognition software that has been in BlackBerry's for a couple of years.

[–]200iso 8 points9 points ago

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Vocera

Nope, SRI International.

[–]swervm 2 points3 points ago

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Correct, although it was actually Nuance Communication that I was thinking of which is a spin off from SRI. They provide the voice recognition engine used in SIRI and in the BalckBerry.

[–]dmsean 1 point2 points ago

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Are you implying apple is the new Microsoft? buy em out boys.

[–]afittinglie 1 point2 points ago

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Apple has become the Microsoft we all feared.

[–]senae 5 points6 points ago

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They are rarely first to market with a technology, in fact.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Reeonimus 7 points8 points ago

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They don't. All touch screen phones are basically the same shape because how else will they look? They all have a screen, surrounded by metal and plastic. This does not mean they "look like an iPhone".

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]mylescloutier 3 points4 points ago

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Uhh? Not Apple? Are you trolling or a fanboy? Ever heard of Palm?

[–]Reeonimus 1 point2 points ago

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Quick to point out the one phone that's been all over the news because of the obvious copy of the iPhone. This was Samsung's plan the whole time trying to lure people away from the iPhone with the similar design but different OS. Not all android/Windows phones have the silver band around them. Samsung even tweaked Androids UI to look like iPhone. So comparing this ONE does not speak for all phones.

[–]senae -1 points0 points ago

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If anything iPhones cribbed the design from TVs, or (if we wanted to be technical about it) fucking black pictureframes.

Because that's all the outside of the phone is, a frame. Apple put a button there, some people don't, some people do, but the real meat of the product is inside and displayed on the screen.

[–]ajwest -1 points0 points ago

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That's absurd. You would have manufacturers deliberately make a cellphone non-cellphonelike?

Cars all look like cars, boats all look like boats. Technology progresses progressively and the iPhone is just a cell phone.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]TikiTDO 1 point2 points ago*

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They didn't have the technology to do full size color LCD touch screens in cell phones before the iPhone. That technology had just been developed a few years earlier, and was still super expensive with the iPhone came out. Apple basically jumped on that boat the second the technology was remotely feasible, and pumped a TON of money into the product to be the first to market. When you have a mass of rabid customers all willing to pay more than half a grand for what amounts to a new toy you have a lot more leeway in how much funding you can put into a project.

Of course, credit where credit is due; Apple did realize how important it was, and invested a lot in being the first to market. Then they managed to do it in a package that was quite aesthetically appealing while also pulling off the app store idea to get both customers and developers on board. As a result they managed to associate the idea of touch screen smart phones with their name, and that's carried them to dominate over all of the other smartphone makers. However, it's also carried you into effectively arguing that the sky is blue because Apple said so; you seem to be implying that cell phone designs would somehow be radically different had Apple never released the iPhone. It might have taken another few years, but someone would have done it.

What everyone else is saying is that iPhones or not, we'd have phones shaped like that anyway the instant technology allowed it. If you asked an good Engineer in the mid 90s he'd have told you as much. In fact, here's a shocker for you, in five to ten years we'll have contact lens displays, and neural input interfaces, while the CPUs might be small tiny things you might keep in your wallet. And if you're ready to get your mind blown, those will have a cool 3D interface where you can organize your work in all the visible dimensions. Or maybe you'll be surprised to learn that we will have holographic entertainment within our lifetimes, and those devices will probably be small boxes with a little glass canopy on top?

You see, these things are obvious because there is no other way these things COULD look. You go up to a guy 10 years ago and say, "I have technology that makes keypads on phones unnecessary" and the fist thing he is going to say is, "Holy shit, let's get rid of the keypads and sell phones with more screen space." Unless perhaps you suggest people LIKED squinting to read a short text message? As long as you are not blind, you can generally see the direction that technology is processing in. Yes, someone is going to do it first, but that doesn't really tell you anything except that they had the money to get it done before the other guys.

[–]galexanderj 2 points3 points ago

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You came up with a well thought out argument and supported it with facts. I hope you know, by the common rules of argument, you lost.

[–]TikiTDO 0 points1 point ago

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I think this really says everything about my argument style that you need to know .^

It's all in the journey.

[–]SirTimmyTimbit 0 points1 point ago

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[–]ajwest -1 points0 points ago

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No, I'm agreeing with the point that all cellphones look the same. Why would I show you a cell phone that looked like an iPhone before the iPhone?

My point is that it doesn't matter which phone looked a certain way first: they're all phones. Stuff looks the same, it doesn't make it somehow better because it happened to look like that first.

What makes it better is the UI, the responsiveness, the hardware, the support, the compatibility, the apps, etc.

[–]FrostyFire -1 points0 points ago

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You don't get it. They didn't look like the iPhone before the iPhone. Show me an example and I'll believe you.

PS notice how the iPhone UI was copied by Android?

[–]ajwest -2 points-1 points ago

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You don't get it. They didn't look like the iPhone before the iPhone.

YES I DO. Not once have I said that cell phones resembled iPhones before the iPhone. You keep reiterating you point that all cellphones look like iPhones, and I keep telling you that I agree.

[–]dino340 -1 points0 points ago

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[–]FrostyFire 0 points1 point ago

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You just showed me a fucking digital diary, not a cell phone. ಠ_ಠ

[–]TikiTDO 1 point2 points ago

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I think you will find a smartphone is a digital diary with a network connection. Please prove me wrong.

[–]dino340 0 points1 point ago

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I generally take the fact that you deleted all your other comments as the fact that you've lost this argument.

[–]jfpbookworm 0 points1 point ago

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Indeed, they do market their technologies well.

[–]exaltedbladder -1 points0 points ago

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Google's Voice Search is done really well too. It's just not as extensive. The notification bar is great too, the one in iOS is not that much different from what I've seen. Anyways, the Ice Cream Sandwich announcement is coming in a few days and I really hope Google's ICS announcement will outdo Apple's iOS5 event by a fuckload (not that that will be hard ;))

[–]drewsus 0 points1 point ago

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not in Canada ;)

[–]sjs 2 points3 points ago*

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<epic rant warning>

That's all fine and dandy, but I hate using my Nexus One. I can't install very many apps because of the limited internal storage and have to manually move apps to the SD card, but not all apps can be moved so sometimes you're just screwed. If I see an app that's over 10 MB I don't even bother installing it anymore. I have a damn 16 GB SD card man! I don't think I need to point out the fact that awesome apps like Instagram and Nike+ are only on iOS. There are many more including a lot of games that I enjoy.

On top of that the keyboard is terrible, and Swype is a great idea implemented somewhat poorly, so I try to type as little as possible. Don't get me started on the browser changing half of the space bar into the "Next Field" key which drives me up the wall, or the fact that the keyboard is right above the 4 touch buttons making it far too easy to hit Home by mistake when hitting the space bar (a fairly often used key).

The touch screen is inaccurate to the point where sometimes a touch at the top of the screen registers at the bottom. WTF is that?

You know how you take a screenshot on Android? You can't! Without connecting the device to a computer or rooting it, that is. That's just terrible, you have to root it or download the dev SDK! Are they kidding?!

Until the 2.3.6 update I couldn't take more than 2 shots w/ the Camera or the camera app would freeze require me to Force Close it and the camera app couldn't connect to the camera until I rebooted the device, which takes forever when you're waiting to take a picture!

For me, none of that is worth WiFi tethering (not available on iOS w/o jailbreaking when I got the Nexus One), voice commands, turn-by-turn navigation, etc. (If you think it is worth it that's fine, you're certainly entitled to think so and I completely understand that we just value different things.)

I cannot wait for my 4S to arrive at the end of the month and would have purchased one no matter what was released. I gave Android a fair shot with Google's flagship device (the latest at the time I got it) and I really wanted to like it. After almost a year it's been death by a thousand paper cuts though. I cannot stand it now. The only thing I'm going to miss is moving one or two characters in a text field using the trackball. Which Google has removed from new devices so whatever.

So many problems and half baked ideas in Android that Apple would never have let see the light of day. Say what you want about Apple being controlling and "closed" or however else you want to phrase it, but they do it because they care about the user experience and it really shows.

/rant

[–]pleasebereasonable 10 points11 points ago

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Say what you want about Apple being controlling and "closed" or however else you want to phrase it, but they do it because they care about the user experience and it really shows.

While I disagree with your complaints about Android, I think that this phrase is 100% true.

The reason I'd choose android and you'd choose iOS is because we just value different things in our mobile technology. That's why iOS vs Android arguments are so ridiculous. Different people look for different things from their mobile platform. Big frickin' deal.

/smaller rant

[–]sjs 5 points6 points ago

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Hooray for level headedness! :)

[–]pleasebereasonable 2 points3 points ago

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See my username for further details.

[–]muad_dib 1 point2 points ago

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Get your rationality out of this fanboy thread!

[–]sjs 0 points1 point ago

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Lets get im skeeter!

[–]ascendingelephant 1 point2 points ago

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While I disagree with your complaints about Android

Most of the complaints are not about android. They are about the Nexus One and its particular implementation of Android.

There are many more (apps) including a lot of games that I enjoy.

Can't argue with that.

On top of that the keyboard is terrible…

The touch screen is inaccurate…

According to MOTO Development Group (now Cisco), The screen hardware really is not usually as accurate on models of android phones. This could effect typing in drastic ways. So a combination of layout and zigzaggy touch screens can make some android phones hard to type on.

You know how you take a screenshot on Android?

There is no natively supported way.


Maybe you are disagreeing with this person's sentiments toward android. Not their points about android. the points they make are generally factual.

[–]itchy118 0 points1 point ago

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You know how you take a screenshot on Android?

There is no natively supported way.

On the Galaxy S 2 you can take a screenshot by holding down power and home at the same time.

[–]ascendingelephant 0 points1 point ago

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That is a phone feature. Not really an OS feature.

[–]pleasebereasonable 0 points1 point ago

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I thought it was obvious, but to be clear, I meant that his complaints were something that I would not complain about.

[–]ascendingelephant 0 points1 point ago

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I wanted to point out that the users "complaints" are simply facts. Are you saying "I would rather not mention those facts."?

I like android. It has some great stuff going on. As a user of both, I refuse to ignore the facts.

Saying, "iPhone has no shortcut way to turn bluetooth and wifi on and off." is a fact and not a complaint. I see most of the users complaints based in fact. (for his hardware mostly)

[–]pleasebereasonable 0 points1 point ago

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I am saying that those facts do not affect my Android user experience in a way that I consider significant.

[–]ascendingelephant 0 points1 point ago

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Fair enough. You may have a different phone as well. I find the android experience is very heavily reliant on the hardware and what the company has done to specialize the OS for use on the hardware.

"Android experience" is about as loaded as "Windows experience" or "Linux experience" in that Android only covers the OS not the hardware, drivers, or implementation of the features.

A Galaxy Tab's experience is beautiful in comparison to one of these. Keeping in mind that both companies are making very similar claims to what the device can do. i.e. app market, wifi, surf the web, music, YouTube, read ebooks, send emails, and play games.

[–]samandiriel 6 points7 points ago

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Hm. I don't think it's fair to compare hardware designed 18 months ago for the second generation of Android to Apple's hardware released a week ago for the fifth generation of iOS. I mean, look at all the shitty crap that iPhone users had to put up with originally (no copy/paste, no multitasking, etc).

As for the design philosophies, they definitely differ enormously. Android's is all about openness and extensibility, Apple's is all about closed vertical integration into their own marketing stack.

Apple products generally are very polished and user friendly, no doubt about it. But that's true only so long as you're doing what Apple wants you to do with the device. The second you want to do anything not originally imagined/handled by Apple engineers or marketing strategists, you're hooped.

[–]sjs -2 points-1 points ago

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What if I want to take a screenshot on Android? What do I do then? Hooped if you do, and hooped if you don't. I don't want this to get all philosophical, you are restricted in certain ways on both platforms. If you can't see that you are not looking hard enough.

My frame of reference for iOS is my old iPhone 3 GS so I think it's a fair comparison. I try very hard not to be biased towards any single platform or company. Identifying with companies or products is pretty silly, almost as silly as identifying with the avoidance of some company or product.

[–]samandiriel 3 points4 points ago

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Well, for one how important is it in a smartphone to be able to take a screent shot? If that's a make or break feature for you, your needs must be pretty esoteric...

Anyway since we're talking about Siri primarily, your basis for comparison is not valid anyway as the 3GS can't run Siri at all :) My point is that hating on your old phone because it can't run the latest and greatest is a little foolish.

Of course you're restricted in different ways on different platforms. Not quite sure how you got the idea I thought otherwise from my post?

I'm also not sure why you bring up brand identification and loyalty (something every manufacturer strives for with megabucks)?

[–]sjs 1 point2 points ago

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I would rather have a 3 GS running iOS 4 today than the latest Android phone running the latest release of Android for phones. Siri looks cool but it's not going to change my life. I never hated on the Nexus One for not running the latest and greatest, it does run the latest Android for phones (2.3.6).

Easy screenshotting is not a make or break feature but it's an annoyance. I'm even more annoyed that I have to jailbreak iOS to run Grooveshark - and used to have to jailbreak to tether via WiFi - which is one reason why I tried Android in the first place. Having to root or jailbreak to do anything is a big hassle.

I'm a software developer and a pretty big geek. Maybe my needs and wants are esoteric, no argument from me there. Do I have a point? I feel like I'm rambling.

[–]samandiriel 1 point2 points ago

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Heh. Not sure what your point is, no, other than to vent originally about how much you hated your Nexus :D

Me, I'm a sysadmin and web app developer myself and I find Android is great for all my needs. Especially since I needs must have a physical keyboard (the Sidekick 4G's kb is GREAT, pity about the rest of the specs on the phone but that's where my priorities lie). Personally I like to fiddle with my hardware, so rooting is a pleasure and not a hassle for me.

Unless you're developing for Android though, why would you need a screen shot app?

[–]sjs 0 points1 point ago

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Sometimes I want to capture what's on my screen. A funny conversation perhaps, a shot of a website to send to somebody. Once I wanted to trade screenshots w/ a friend because she has a Samsung Android device and we wanted to see how each other's messaging apps look. That's the only non-dev related scenario I can recall off the top of my head.

[–]losershawn 0 points1 point ago

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wait wait wait

Having to root is a hassle? I recently looked into rooting my gf's phone, and it was as easy as downloading an app from the market and pressing the big 'root now' button. For a perm root on my original Desire (which is basically the same as the Nexus One), all I had to do was connect my phone with USB debugging on, run Unrevoked 3, and wait five minutes.

I do understand your frustrations with the phone though, if I hadn't rooted mine I'd probably be rather annoyed too since the Desire and Nexus One are so outdated now. Due to rooting, I made a 1gb ext partition which my phone picks up as internal storage, so I don't have to worry about running out of app space any time soon, and I can also choose to run Cyanogenmod for a very functional version of Android, or MIUI for an iPhoneish "pretty" version.

[–]sjs 0 points1 point ago

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If I'm walking around outside or at the beach, yeah having to connect my phone to my computer and run some program is a hassle. Even if it's as easy as visiting jailbreakme.com and sliding a button it's a hassle.

Anything that requires me to do something unrelated to what I actually want to accomplish is a hassle. It doesn't matter if it's simple or easy to perform. Merely looking up how to do it is a hassle as well. What can I say, I'm a lazy bastard.

[–]losershawn 0 points1 point ago

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But.. that was my point? You don't have to plug your phone into anything - you just download an app from the market. It's the same "hassle" as downloading something like Angry Birds.

[–]sjs 0 points1 point ago

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Not on the Nexus One. If this can be done with an app please point it out, I found no such app when I looked.

[–]megaw -1 points0 points ago

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Um what?

once you root your phone it's done... no needing to "connect my phone to my computer and run some program" while on the beach...

/facepalm

[–]sjs 0 points1 point ago

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Give me some credit. I understand that, but what if I don't know that I need to root my phone to take a damn screenshot until I'm out wanting to take one? That's exactly what happened to me the first time I wanted to do so.

[–]hardran3 1 point2 points ago

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What if I want to take a screenshot on Android?

Hold the back button and press the menu button?

[–]sjs 1 point2 points ago

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I shouldn't have said Android since it varies so much from device to device. That doesn't work on the Nexus One, you have to install the developer tools and connect the phone to your computer, or root the device and then download an app from the market. I realize that a lot of the custom Android UIs have this ability (Samsung, HTC, etc).

[–]megaw 1 point2 points ago

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uhh.. I took half a second to type "screenshot" into the android market and found LOTS of apps to take a screenshot of your phone. Many need root a few that don't but certainly enough to give several options...

not sure what definition of hooped you are using but it's positively different from my understanding of the word.

[–]sjs -1 points0 points ago

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It depends on the device you have. None of the screenshot apps work on a Nexus One that isn't rooted.

Hooped means fucked.

[–]itchy118 -1 points0 points ago

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On my Galaxy S 2 I can take a screenshot by pressing power and home at the same time. (That's in the stock rom, I haven't rooted it yet).

[–]ajwest 4 points5 points ago

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I'll bite. Please take this as friendly debate, I'm a huge supporter of competition in the cell phone industry (which is what ultimately makes all of our devices better in the end).

That's all fine and dandy, but I hate using my Nexus One.

The N1 is one of hundreds of Android phones. Just because you don't like the Nexus One, doesn't mean it's representative of all Android cell phones. That's the point, anybody can install the OS on the device... so go find one that's better. A two year old computer with Windows XP on it, is clearly going to suck compared to a new iMac with Lion on it. It's the same thing.

limited internal storage and have to manually move apps to the SD card

Just trying to play devil's advocate here, so I want to point out that one has the option of using their own (expandable) storage. iOS devices do not even give the user the ability to even do this at all.

On top of that the [stock Android] keyboard is terrible

The best part about this very subjective point (that I agree with btw, the stock keyboard is hard to learn and use), is that Android allows one to change the keyboard, and indeed make a keyboard that they would prefer to use. iOS does not allow for the minority of people like you who do not like it, and forces users to stick with the only option.

Swype is a great idea implemented somewhat poorly,

Can you install Swype on an iOS device and use it as the default keyboard? If the answer is no, then we can't very well use this as a disadvantage to Android, but rather as a poorly implemented additional feature that iOS doesn't have at all. The difference really does come down to choice... Even though Swype sucks, I'd rather have the option of installing it, rather than just not being able to at all. If I don't like it, I can remove it. It's pretty hard to compare a keyboard between two devices when one device won't even run it.

You know how you take a screenshot on Android? You can't!

This isn't the case with all phones/Android OS versions. I can take screenshots on my Nexus One by holding down the Power button, just as iOS devices. Admittedly, this feature was defiantly missing from the get-go, and requires a few steps to setup... but it is possible and works very well. You win this point though, because it doesn't come ready out of the box. Future Android phones will no doubt make this process simpler (and some current Android phones probably already do).

The only thing I'm going to miss is moving one or two characters in a text field using the trackball. Which Google has removed from new devices so whatever.

Google doesn't make the devices, the phone manufacturers do. The Nexus One has a trackball on it, because HTC decided to put one there. Either way you're right though, Android is slowly moving towards the "no physical buttons" system, just like iOS seems to be doing. (I'm surprised the Home button is still a thing actually).

Ultimately, I would rather have a device that lets me 'tear it apart' virtually, whereas you would rather have a device that has been tested and set for the optimal "average user." There's something good to be said about less choice: less thinking about what I want to use. Sometimes a paint store with hundreds of shades can be more tedious than a store that only has ten shades to choose from.

[–]sjs 2 points3 points ago

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Well, ok. I've been procrastinating work and other stuff all day so here we go :) Just a note that I was not trying to debate things here, most of my points are quite subjective and I realize that. I bet there are many thousands of people who absolutely love Swype, for example. There are probably also (fewer) thousands who love swapping out their SD card every year and are OK with moving apps to and from their SD card. They probably laugh at "suckers" who spend $100 for each bump in capacity on the iPhone and iPad. (If I were a mean person I'd say that they are laughing from the darkness of their mom's basement as they take a break from WoW ;-)

The N1 is one of hundreds of Android phones. Just because you don't like the Nexus One, doesn't mean it's representative of all Android cell phones.

Agreed, but being Google's flagship device it seems like it should be one of the best (well, should have been in its heyday).

Just trying to play devil's advocate here, so I want to point out that one has the option of using their own (expandable) storage. iOS devices do not even give the user the ability to even do this at all.

Most people don't understand memory and storage and don't care about upgrading it. A lot of folks wouldn't even know how to copy their stuff to a new SD card (sounds silly to geeks like us but it's true). I think this is a misfeature, sophistry perpetuated by manufactures that want to cut costs and make it seem like a good thing for users. The result is a terrible experience for users, even geeks like me who write software for these things. Most folks would just think "I have 8 gee-bees, how can I be out of memory? It must be broken."

The best part about this very subjective point (that I agree with btw, the stock keyboard is hard to learn and use), is that Android allows one to change the keyboard, and indeed make a keyboard that they would prefer to use. iOS does not allow for the minority of people like you who do not like it, and forces users to stick with the only option.

I agree, this is one of the advantages to using Android. Note that many people have to root their phones in order to install apps outside the market though. The Nexus One is a little bit special in this regard.

Can you install Swype on an iOS device and use it as the default keyboard? If the answer is no, then we can't very well use this as a disadvantage to Android, but rather as a poorly implemented additional feature that iOS doesn't have at all.

I only mentioned that because some people say "use Swype!" so I wanted to make it clear I have tried that popular alternative and was not satisfied with it either. It's definitely a plus for Android that you can change the keyboard at all, and good for the whole industry by encouraging innovation.

This isn't the case with all phones/Android OS versions. I can take screenshots on my Nexus One by holding down the Power button, just as iOS devices. Admittedly, this feature was defiantly missing from the get-go, and requires a few steps to setup... but it is possible and works very well.

If rooting/jailbreaking is an option then you can indeed change the iOS keyboard and other things as well. I'm not sure whether hacking a device to add functionality is a plus or minus. Either way many people don't want to do such geeky things and get scared when they hear about it thinking it will be difficult. Like telling a friend to re-install Windows when they have computer trouble, they usually respond with something like "I don't know how to do that!" and think they have to be a wizard to do such things. It's not true, but is reality nonetheless.

So if this is a valid argument in favour of Android then you have to concede that it's a valid argument for getting 3rd party keyboards and such on iOS as well, invalidating some of your previous arguments against iOS. How far down the rabbit hole do you go? You could, in theory, open the iPhone and upgrade its storage as well if you are into hacking and modding. Nobody does this of course, and similarly relatively few people percentage-wise root or jailbreak their devices.

Google doesn't make the devices, the phone manufacturers do. The Nexus One has a trackball on it, because HTC decided to put one there.

Google was heavily involved in designing the Nexus One, but regardless I wasn't really citing this as a negative point about Android or the Nexus series. It is just the only thing I can think of that I will actually miss, surprisingly. I never thought I'd use it at first.

Ultimately, I would rather have a device that lets me 'tear it apart' virtually, whereas you would rather have a device that has been tested and set for the optimal "average user." There's something good to be said about less choice: less thinking about what I want to use. Sometimes a paint store with hundreds of shades can be more tedious than a store that only has ten shades to choose from.

Nothing wrong with wanting either of these things. What people want and like are what people want and like, neither is right or wrong. Same goes for anything in between, like those who get iOS devices and jailbreak or get Android devices and never install 3rd party apps or new UIs or keyboards.

[–]ajwest 1 point2 points ago

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I have never been so happily refuted.

So if this is a valid argument in favour of Android then you have to concede that it's a valid argument for getting 3rd party keyboards and such on iOS as well, invalidating some of your previous arguments against iOS.

You're totally right... I didn't think of that. I guess the difference is that Android doesn't try to actively prevent one from rooting/installing custom apps and mods, whereas Apple very vocally tries to remove customization with each update, and even fought to make it illegal. That's beside the point you've made though, which I now totally agree with. If you have to do anything that requires a moderate to advanced knowledge on how to modify an OS, the benefits of such modifications should be equally weighed as "Pros."

[–]losershawn 0 points1 point ago

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The thing is, rooting doesn't require moderate to advanced knowledge. One of my friends wanted to back her apps up, I linked her a rooting app on the market for a temp root, she just had to install it and click 'root now', and it was done. Then she was able to use Titanium Backup (also found on the market) and save all her apps and app data to the sd card.

Estimated difficulty: About the same as downloading and playing the first level of Angry Birds.

[–]KeytarVillain 0 points1 point ago

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I'll bite as well. I have a Nexus One too, and I'll be getting a new phone in the next few months - almost definitely another Android. However, despite my preference of Android over iOS, I have some major gripes about it.

The N1 is one of hundreds of Android phones. Just because you don't like the Nexus One, doesn't mean it's representative of all Android cell phones. That's the point, anybody can install the OS on the device... so go find one that's better. A two year old computer with Windows XP on it, is clearly going to suck compared to a new iMac with Lion on it. It's the same thing.

It's not just one of hundreds of Android phones, it's Google's flagship model. This isn't like comparing it to a 2-year-old computer with Windows XP, it's like comparing it to a 2-year-old top-of-the-line PC with Windows 7.

Just trying to play devil's advocate here, so I want to point out that one has the option of using their own (expandable) storage. iOS devices do not even give the user the ability to even do this at all.

You can't put apps on the SD card. (Sure, you can "move to SD", but some apps don't support this, and even those that do leave a pretty big chunk in the internal memory.) I have a 16GB SD card yet I still get less than 200 MB app storage.

The best part about this very subjective point (that I agree with btw, the stock keyboard is hard to learn and use), is that Android allows one to change the keyboard, and indeed make a keyboard that they would prefer to use. iOS does not allow for the minority of people like you who do not like it, and forces users to stick with the only option.

I would take only being able to have 1 good keyboard over being able to choose between 30 mediocre keyboards any day. Apple's philosophy is that if they do things right, then you don't need to change anything. While I'm glad you can change things with Google, I think in some ways they take the attitude that "people will just change this so we don't need to do a very good job"

[–]ajwest 0 points1 point ago

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Well said. I guess there's always the option of installing the iOS keyboard on your Android phone. I've seen tons of clones. This one looks pretty good.

I'm sure lots of people will claim that these are nothing like the iOS keyboard though... which is pretty likely.

[–]dragoneye 2 points3 points ago

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Funny that you say the keyboard is implemented badly. When I first got my Android phone, and started typing on the stock keyboard with the haptic feedback, I couldn't believe how much better than the iOS keyboard it was. Then I installed Swype, and even with all my complaints of Swype, it was a thousand times better than the terrible iOS keyboard. Additionally, you must be pretty sloppy with the keyboard, I think I may have accidentally hit the touch buttons twice when typing something. This doesn't compare to how much I miss them when I am on iOS and trying to do something, it is so much handier having a button that goes back all the time, or a button that you know will almost certainly bring up access to settings.

On my phone (HTC Desire HD) the touchscreen is more responsive than the one on my 4th Gen iPod Touch.

[–]sjs 1 point2 points ago

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I am indeed a sloppy typist, and for me the iOS keyboard is still accurate. I realize this is subjective though, and of course I haven't tried every Android device out there. Are you certain that the Desire HD has a better touch screen or keyboard and that it's not easier to type on only because the screen is larger? My Nexus One has the same size screen as the iPhone so it may be a more apt device for comparison of the keyboard and touch screen themselves.

Some Android phones are almost certainly better than the Nexus One but that's Google's flagship device, it ought to be the best. Instead of researching which Android phones let you take screenshots or which have this keyboard or that touch screen I can just buy the latest iPhone and be certain it is the best iPhone. Old and lazy? Probably, but I still enjoy using iOS devices and dislike using my Android phone, for whatever that is worth. I don't think people who like their Android devices are wrong or stupid or anything ridiculous like that. Nor do I think everyone should get an iPhone. People should get what they like.

[–]dragoneye 2 points3 points ago

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Yeah, I find that quite often the iPod touchscreen doesn't like to pick up on taps, where my Desire HD rarely misses anything. Most of my like of the android keyboard doesn't really depend on screen size (mostly haptics and being able to change it), though I do think the larger screen is a far better form factor than the iOS one (but I have fairly large hands).

The Nexus One isn't Google's flagship device anymore, the Nexus S is, and the Nexus Prime will be soon. I perfectly appreciate that some people like using iOS and the related devices more. However, I feel that Android devices have caught up and significantly passed Apple in the past 2 years since the Nexus One was released, which should be taken into consideration.

[–]sjs 1 point2 points ago

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I think my hands are average for my size (5'8" and change, 190 lbs) which is definitely a factor. So many variables with this stuff, and at the end of the day it's subjective anyway. Nobody can be wrong for liking any particular device.

fwiw my frame of reference for my experience w/ the Nexus One is the iPhone 3 GS I previously owned. So in that regard it is a fair comparison.

[–]Cingetorix 2 points3 points ago

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As a fellow Nexus One user, I completely agree. I really don't want to switch to the iPhone 4S due to my disdain for Apple (I've never owned an Apple product due to reasons not important), but it's becoming more and more of a possibility for me due to the issues you've described.

I might give Android one more shot with a new dual core phone (possibly a new HTC or the Nexus Prime) but I sense a switch to the iPhone, no matter how much I loathe Apple.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I used to be an Apple hater too. I hated Apple so much.

Just go for it, it's freeing in a way. You cede a level of control to the device manufacturer, but at the same time, you're now buying from a device manufacturer who really cares about your experience.

[–]Cingetorix 0 points1 point ago

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Yeah, but then I feel like a hypocrite for talking so much shit about Apple, and then I get an iPhone, paying them directly.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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That's not being a hypocrite, it's reevaluating your positions in light of new information. The opposite of which is called being a stubborn fool.

[–]afittinglie 1 point2 points ago

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I agree but the Pros out weigh the cons for me. I chose android because I wanted something that could be used as a disc drive (it pissed me off when a hard drive failed and My 80 gb classic ipod couldn't transfer the music onto another computer). It has tons of useful apps to me (time recorder for keeping track of overtime, business calendar for syncing appointments with gmail and my wife's phone, locale to make it a smarter phone, dolphin browser, log me in, radar, turn by turn navigation, street view, power amp) yes I find myself deleting apps I never use. Even apps that are mounted still store some data on the internal storage, try deleting them. I use bluetooth 8 hours day listening to music or books and the iPhone is notorious for having bad audio, plus I do a lot of heavy browsing so I wanted a phone I could get a 3400mah battery pack for.

The iPhone is really nice but it wouldn't be a utility to me like my phone is, for some people it is everything they need.

[–]osmun 1 point2 points ago

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I have a Nexus S and its fucking amazing.

[–]sjs 0 points1 point ago

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Sweet! Glad that you like it :)

[–]CuriousCursor -1 points0 points ago

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You have a 2 year old phone, you're comparing it to one of the latest phones.

Try comparing the SGS 2 with an iPhone 4S.

Also, I have a Nexus One. As soon as I get the Nexus Prime, I'm gonna put MIUI on the N1 coz I know that thing is smoother than anything.

[–]Natural_RX 0 points1 point ago

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True say. I got an LG Optimus a couple weeks ago, works great!

[–]200iso 0 points1 point ago

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All this fuss over Siri, when you could have had it with Google's Android Voice commands over a year ago!

Uh, have you used it?

[–]samandiriel 1 point2 points ago

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How could I, if it doesn't do navigation in Canada? <lol>

I'll address the question you're really asking, though: have I compared functionality between Siri and Android's voice commands personally? No, I haven't, I've just seen a zillion youtube uploads, blog posts and reviews. So far Android hasn't failed to do anything I've asked it to do, ever, but admittedly I don't bother with it much except to dictate texts or emails, search the web, dial and get navigation.

[–]200iso -1 points0 points ago

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If Apple didn't have a great product, would it be generating all this buzz?

Why wasn't there a torrent of videos, tweets and blog post when Android first included voice recognition?

Before Siri I hadn't used voice recognition since Dragon Dictate on my PC 10yrs ago or so (which was actually pretty good). So I haven't used the Android implementation or anything else. But I think what makes Siri different is, that they've managed to give it just a little bit of personality (hell, naming it Siri alone makes it seem 50% more human). Also, you're able to interact with it very naturally, without having to worry about giving it commands (eg. it recognized "nevermind" as a cancel command).

[–]samandiriel 0 points1 point ago

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It's generating buzz because the Apple marketing machine is most mighty. And there was a torrent of videos, tweets and blog post when Android first included voice recognition. Where were you??? Ah yes: not using Android. So you'd have no reason to pick up on it, and since Google wasn't shoving peoples' faces in it, so you probably missed it whilst cruising Apple related sites for updates on when iOS would finally get copy and paste XD

As for needing a bit of personality to be a great product (such as giving it a name)... well, I guess people have different criterion as to what makes a product great. I couldn't care less what it's called, so long as it works. I generally value function over form for my tech products, which is pretty much the opposite mindset of the usual Apple user (ooo, look it's shiny shiny pretty pretty... but don't hold it wrong or you can't make calls! XD ).

As for being able to interact with it very naturally, I've never tried saying "never mind" to my phone. I don't think I've mistaken my phone for a person; I just talk to it and it works when I do so. So I would chalk that up as a win for interacting with it very naturally ;)

[–]200iso -1 points0 points ago

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It's generating buzz because the Apple marketing machine is most mighty.

That's bull shit. If people were posting videos because they're Apple drones or whatever and Siri was a terrible product, Apple haters would be jumping all over it's flaws. I don't see that happening. Mapping not happening in Canada is the only real flaw I've seen so far.

you probably missed it whilst cruising Apple related sites

That's unfair, I expose myself to a wide variety of tech news. Would you mind linking me to a few of the videos you mentioned? I took a look a Vlingo's PR video and it did not look great. What else is out there?

[–]samandiriel 1 point2 points ago

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No one said Siri was a terrible product. Just that Android's voice commands have been built in for a couple years, and there's been Vlingo and the like as well.

Besides which, Siri's been around as an app since early 2010 - since before Google voice actions, actually. How is it that it is only just now suddenly part of the mass consciousness if it was so uber fantastic all on it's own? Could it... just possibly... have something to do with Apple's marketing? Nawwwwwwwww! <rolls eyes>

While it might be unfair, it seems justified to me. If you expose yourself to a wide variety of tech, as oppose to just what makes headlines in Wired and PC Magazine, then you should either have already heard about voice command or know where to go to look for articles. It's not like Google is some obscure little company (like say, for example, Siri was just last year prior to being bought up by Apple and then having the hell promoted out of it)

Nonetheless, here's a couple links for you:

Overall this link's probably your best bet.

[–]200iso -1 points0 points ago*

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Google voice actions looks really good. How much can you deviate from the commands? It looks like you have to stick to them 100%.

Whereas, with Siri you just have a conversation.

For example:

"Where is Bob M?"

"He's at [work adress]"

"text him"

[–]samandiriel 2 points3 points ago*

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You're right - there's a limited set of commands. I understand that Siri is much more flexible that way. On the other hand, I've also heard that Google is supposed to be coming out very soon with something to expand voice commands in a similar way to Siri. Given the amount of money, time and energy Google's pumped into voice recognition and control, I wouldn't be surprised at something newer being baked into Ice Cream Sandwich.

Personally I don't have a problem using the limited commands, as they're almost exactly the way I would phrase things anyway. I can see the advantage in having a more natural language processing approach - but I also don't see much actual need for it given the limited number of actions you can do with a phone anyway.

Still, it the idea of virtual personal assistant is very attractive. Hats off to whoever can get one to market first that is flexible enough to actually take the place of a live one.

EDIT: blog post of a guy who switched from Android to iOS just for Siri: "While Android also has voice applications, they're not as smooth or well integrated as Siri." And he gives the reason why I stick with Android: "iOS 5 does what it does elegantly, even though it might not have the potential to do quite as many things as an Android device."

[–]InternetSuperTrooper 2 points3 points ago

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Easy. Go to Waterfront skytrain station, or anywhere along the line, and go straight to the airport. Much easier, faster and cheaper than a taxi or paying for long term parking.

[–]GAndroid 2 points3 points ago

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You know I have an android - and "Navigate to Vancouver Airport" just works (since last year). I love it!

[–]Pineo 2 points3 points ago

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Seriously? I was going to get it this week but this is a total deal breaker.

[–]fernguts 5 points6 points ago

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Machines that pretend to be human can go screw themselves.

[–]Pauluminous 4 points5 points ago

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People that need machines to pretend to be humans can go screw themselves.

FTFY

[–]samandiriel 0 points1 point ago*

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Au contraire! Humans screw machines that pretend to be human - ever heard of True Companion? (NSFW)

EDIT: correct link put in, thanks Evange!

[–]evange 0 points1 point ago

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Real dolls are not machines.

[–]samandiriel 0 points1 point ago

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Corrected!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Wait, how do you get it to say your name?

[–]MuteflY 2 points3 points ago

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Settings > General > Siri > My Info

You want to point it to a record for yourself in Contacts.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Thanks!

[–]hseldon10 1 point2 points ago

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Siri, open the pod bay doors...

[–]sheepsix 1 point2 points ago

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I dunno...the name Siri...sounds foreign.

/s

[–]cory849 1 point2 points ago

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OK, Smokeweed, is this an American iPhone 4S or a Canadian iPhone 4s that you have?

[–]NotYourMothersDildo 4 points5 points ago

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Canadian. Bought mine in Van; same stupid thing. I was confused as to how bad the recommendations were for movie theatres until I realized it was telling me about theatres in Vancouver, Washington.

[–]thetribute 2 points3 points ago

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Should of gotten an Android phone.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Should of learned grammar.

[–]thetribute -1 points0 points ago

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u mad?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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It does bother me that people who don't have a handle on basic grammar can use the Internet. I don't know if I'm necessarily mad, but it's frustrating. It used to just be smart people here.

[–]CuriousCursor 0 points1 point ago

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Well then if they don't have a handle on grammar, how will they be able to steer it?

It's gettin' pretty expensive these days ya know.

[–]thetribute -2 points-1 points ago

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look at this high class motherfucker. Get out of here 1%

[–]flyingfox12 0 points1 point ago

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Kyle is that you?

[–]rickamore -4 points-3 points ago

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Scumbag Apple: Forever remarketing old technology as new and revolutionary. Old technology is still better.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points ago

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Actually Siri works better than any voice recognition thing I've ever used! Don't be such a baby.

[–]frozenfire 8 points9 points ago

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Speech recognition effectiveness plateaued years ago. Nobody has ever achieved more than about 87% performance in general speech recognition.

If you filter your recognition based upon a set of known commands, you can increase that value, but Apple is not doing anything novel in that regard. They're using existing speech recognition algorithms, and probably existing code.

[–]base736 0 points1 point ago

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They're using existing speech recognition algorithms, and probably existing code.

That'd be as opposed to all the companies using algorithms and code that don't exist?

[–]frozenfire 2 points3 points ago

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That'd be as opposed to Apple developing their own algorithm that somehow provides better recognition fidelity. As well, in that they probably used an existing tool for the functionality, rather than developing their own solution.

The question is whether Apple is just polishing a turd, or if they're actually doing something innovative. The answer is decidedly the former, in this case.

[–]base736 0 points1 point ago

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polishing a turd

Yeah. Siri clearly sucks ass. You can tell by all the people complaining that it misses every damned word.

Hyperbole doesn't serve anybody. Siri is clearly a very workable solution. I suspect Android's solution is as well, though I haven't used it. And I've seen nothing concrete to indicate that either of them is more innovative than the other (though seriously, I care a great deal more for the functionality of the final product than for how hip the algorithms used are). Did Apple invent the technology? No -- and they've stated as much. Then again, I had a fantastic bison steak the other night and managed to overlook the fact that they didn't invent the bison...

[–]frozenfire 2 points3 points ago

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I fail to see where I used hyperbole. The person I originally replied to said that Apple's speech recognition engine had significantly higher recognition fidelity than competing applications. I said that was not true, because nobody is really making progress in speech recognition anymore.

[–]base736 0 points1 point ago

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Sure. And if your claim was that Siri wasn't significantly better (or better at all) than the state of the art, I'd be inclined to agree.

But you didn't -- you described Siri as "a turd" that had been polished. Unless your claim is that everybody's product is a turd, I assume you're stating that Siri is considerably inferior to other products, but Apple has somehow prettied it up so that people wouldn't notice it was shit at speech recognition. That's simply not true.

[–]frozenfire 2 points3 points ago

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I am basely stating that everyone's product is a turd. Speech recognition sucks. It's sucked for a very long time. It has a long, colourful history of sucking badly.

Apple's tossed it onto a new iteration of the same product, and said "Hey, look at us! We're innovating!"

[–]base736 -1 points0 points ago

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Fair enough. I respectfully submit, though, that the popular response to Siri (and to other voice recognition -- I have some experience with Dragon Naturally Speaking, for example) indicates that, while voice recognition may be imperfect, it has been empirically demonstrated that it doesn't suck.

[–]millioneyed 0 points1 point ago

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I'm curious to know where you got 87% from. Is this just some useless knowledge chillin' in your brain? Or did you just pick a probably-close and believable number for credibility?

[–]frozenfire 2 points3 points ago

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I've worked a bit with speech recognition in the past (trying to develop a workable system for speech recognition over the web).

Some hard numbers are available here, if you're willing to read through some rather long technical evaluation documents. Keep in mind that 87% was a peak performance number, for general speech recognition (transcription without a filter set). The actual accuracy depends largely upon the conditions of the microphone environment, the quality of the speaker's voice, and other such issues.

[–]millioneyed 0 points1 point ago

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This was the answer I was hoping for.

[–]CrunkelStiltskin -1 points0 points ago

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And implementing it in a way that makes people actually want to use it

[–]rickamore 1 point2 points ago

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At least I've been able to use voice search for over a year in Canada.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

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drive away from the mountains