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[–]Celadin 101 points102 points ago

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Was just looking through some quotes I keep this morning and saw this. Coincides nicely. Dunno source; maybe Fry himself, note the British spellings...

"I'm sorry you take offence at my remarks. I shall be glad when we move on from what seems to me to be an era of offence taking. I have expressed my opinions robustly but, I hope, carefully and thoughtfully. Please disagree with them as robustly as you like. There are now six billion of us, and there are bound to be a lot of opinions and views out there we profoundly disagree with. I wish we could just accept that and have the arguments and think about them not be in such a rush to take offence the whole time. If you find my remarks to be dishonest, thoughtless, malicious or even stupid then I apologise for them wholeheartedly. If you merely find that you strongly disagree with them then please disagree back. But wherein lies the offence?"

[–]IquickscopedJFK 66 points67 points ago

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People need to be fucking taught that having an opinion doesn't automatically validate it. They also need to be taught that since opinion is based on reasoning, it can either be right or wrong, but most of all, debated. You know? Some form of education that evenly teaches all the people how to think properly.

Wait, I'm describing logic. Add logic to core curriculum and stop teaching kids that all facets of the conversation are equally right/fair and that their opinion matters simply for having it. This alone would solve an assload of problems.

[–]OmegaSeven 27 points28 points ago

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Is assload one of those weird measurements that Europeans use?

[–]kittyroux 21 points22 points ago

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That would be a metric assload. It's about 2% smaller than an imperial assload, which is why IquickscopedJFK really should have specified.

[–]joyork 21 points22 points ago

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If you're British it would be an arseload of course.

[–]ZeroError 6 points7 points ago

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Unless it is describing how much could be carried by a donkey at one time.

[–]echolaliality 0 points1 point ago

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by the king's donkey.

[–]fiercelyfriendly 2 points3 points ago

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Either that or a fucktonne.

[–]Gman1012 0 points1 point ago

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Don't forget that it's 100 centifucktonnes or 1/1000th of a kilofucktonne

[–]notru7h 2 points3 points ago

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I'm going to start saying "metric assload" in every day conversation.

[–]radamanthine 0 points1 point ago

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It's 1/2000th of a metric fuckton.

[–]kittyroux 1 point2 points ago

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If it's metric, it's a fucktonne.

[–]IquickscopedJFK 0 points1 point ago

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I think it's one of those measurements the Brazilians began to use back in the day.

[–]GazUtd 1 point2 points ago

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Quickscoping is the most offensive thing in the world today!

[–]jaxxon 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah, well that's just, like, your opinion, man. -The Dude

[–]jayssite 1 point2 points ago

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Actually, you're not quite right there. Maybe part of the confusion is because beliefs are not the same thing as opinions. Opinions are things like "X tastes good", "Band X makes good music", etc. The things that can be debated, like religion, are not opinions, but beliefs.

[–]Red_AtNight 7 points8 points ago

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No one debates the beliefs. Or, rather, no one rational debates the beliefs. There's no point in debating with someone whether or not they should believe in Jesus. There is a worthwhile debate to be had over the extent to which the religious beliefs of a certain religion should be allowed to dictate public policy.

[–]IquickscopedJFK 6 points7 points ago

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An opinion is formed with reason (either sound or unsound) and observations.

If I said, "I like the color blue the most." It wouldn't be an opinion, it would simply be a fact. I like the color blue the most.

If I said, "I think blue is the best color," then we have an discussion on our hands. Best must first be defined, and then we can discuss why/how blue is the best color. If 'best' is not defined, then we just have a vague statement that doesn't really mean or say anything.

Statements such as these are entirely useless and there is no point even debating them, because doing so is impossible. The problem is when people think that statements such as these are validated. And then assert them as truth, or even worse, take action based on these opinions.

[–]I_sense_highschool 3 points4 points ago*

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this is amazing, and even more powerful than the original post, thank you.

edit: Do you have a source for this?

[–]Celadin 0 points1 point ago

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No source, sadly, and Google is completely useless. I found it just over a month ago, and I feel like it was from some forum post or blog comment something...wish I'd noted where...

[–]punyparker89 343 points344 points ago

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I was on board with everything he said until he swore... I found that a little too offensive for my liking.

[–]JimmerUK 58 points59 points ago

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[–][deleted] 11 points12 points ago

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[–]IAmBroom 5 points6 points ago

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Fave Brian Blessed story: Tensions were running high on the "Henry V" set, during the apprehension-of-the-traitors scene. This was Kevin Branagh's first time directing, BTW...

Exeter (Blessed) was to grab one of the traitors, shove him against the wall by his collar, and shout, "I accuse you of high treason, Mortimer." (or something like that)

Instead, he grabbed the King (Branagh, his best friend), shoved him against the wall, and shouted, "This movie is shite and you're a shite director!"

Tension broken. Everyone died laughing.

[–]generic_human_1979 2 points3 points ago

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This was Kenneth Branagh's first time directing...

FTFY

[–]IAmBroom 0 points1 point ago

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TY.

[–]lijkel 0 points1 point ago

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I pissed myself watching this and nearly woke up the whole house.

[–]wonko221 31 points32 points ago

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i up-voted you on reddit, but down-voted you in my heart. I hope that doesn't offend you.

[–]RevengeVonKarma 39 points40 points ago

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i up-voted you on reddit, but down-voted you in my heart.

Surely I can't be the only one who thinks this would make a hilarious song?

[–]Widsith 13 points14 points ago

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It does seem to be crying out for a country and western anthem...

[–]FTFTW 0 points1 point ago

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Sign it to some 8-Bit Nintendo Rock and I think we might have a (frontpage) hit!

[–]punyparker89 3 points4 points ago

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I'm a karma whore. Your love means nothing to me. No offense.

[–]Fauster 8 points9 points ago

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If you're defending a position that can't be logically supported, then acting offended by logical arguments is a great start. If that doesn't work, you'll have to resort to other appeals to emotion and more transparent logical fallacies.

[–]darkgatherer 9 points10 points ago

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Fry sounds a tad bit offended by people who say they're offended.

[–]ZeroError 4 points5 points ago

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I think he's more consternated than offended.

[–]meditonsin 17 points18 points ago

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It offends me that you find his choice of words offensive.

[–]Randolpho 10 points11 points ago

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I am offended that you are offended at his being offended!

(how far can we keep this going?)

[–]niomosy 5 points6 points ago

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Personally, I take offense at your attempt to push the offense of the offended.

[–]Intrebute 1 point2 points ago

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I feel offended that this hasn't been dragged out longer. Offence. Offence. Offence.

[–]SxeKhush 3 points4 points ago

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If your offended by that, check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-JxA9Rvs8I

[–]pinchitony 0 points1 point ago

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No, no, you don't get it. It is all O.K. as long as we can justify being an asshole with a quote from a famous person. Famous means right.

[–]iwidiwin 0 points1 point ago

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Sidevote?

[–]strang3lov3 39 points40 points ago

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also, steve hugues on the subject

[–]puntloos 7 points8 points ago

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Oh you beat me to it. It sounds so similar I suspect this is actually misattributed to Fry, or he stole it ..

[–]poiro 1 point2 points ago

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[–]mexicodoug 1 point2 points ago

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All successful performers are shameless thieves.

Without theft art would have died a long long time ago.

[–]JackRawlinson 1 point2 points ago

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No, Fry said it, and years ago at that. It was on a British TV programme - I forget the name.

[–]putmewhereyoufoundme 1 point2 points ago

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QI, my good man.

[–]Bag_of_Bones 0 points1 point ago

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and me! looks like he was beaten by SubtleMockery too, just below.

[–]obliviious 0 points1 point ago

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[–]not_a_wolf 77 points78 points ago

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Offensive: causing displeasure or resentment <offensive remarks>

I really don't get these quotes about how people being offended is a bad thing or doesn't mean anything. Being offended is just an emotion. People are allowed to have emotions and emotions DO matter. Every time you're offended you don't need to argue why you're offended. Saying you're offended is a quick and easy way to tell people that you disagree and also find displeasure and resentment in their statement.

I mean for fuck's sake if someone comes up to me and says they hate black people and I tell them that offends me it's a pretty simple statement and they understand that means I strongly disagree and resent that statement.

Replace the word with any emotion (sad, angry, happy) and this quote just makes you seem like a dick. It basically turns into "I don't give a fuck how you feel!" True, ultimately your emotions shouldn't stop me if I think I'm right, but you shouldn't just toss them aside.

[–]The_Law_of_Pizza 42 points43 points ago

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His point isn't that people don't have a right not to feel emotion, but rather that feeling that emotion doesn't, or shouldn't, afford you special treatment.

He's commenting on the fact that you can experience any range of emotions and nobody will care, but the second you're "offended," suddenly it's a huge issue and the offender is expected to capitulate and apologize.

[–]vodman 7 points8 points ago

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I think you summed up Fry's point pretty accurately. The problem is that he's building a strawman. I can be a pretty offensive/argumentative person, and I never once felt that I had to capitulate or apologize because of my behavior. I suppose it will vary from culture to culture. I live in Vancouver and people here will often silently resent you instead of arguing back or clearly stating that they are offended. I would actually prefer people to say they are offended rather than be passive aggressive.

[–]Hellingame 1 point2 points ago

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I actually think he meant that the term "I'm offended" should be responded with a "so fucking what?" UNLESS it is validated by reason. That's what I imagine should follow up with his quote. That reason should then be weighed to judge whether the offense is validated or not.

For example, if I swear in public, and someone says "I'm offended", I probably wouldn't give a second thought, because fuck him. Who is he to shove his opinions down my throat? Just because he finds it distasteful doesn't mean I have to tone down.

But if he validated his reason of offense ("Swearing makes it seem like you're uneducated, and we should all strive to build a more educated society" or something along that line), then yes, that should be considered before a decision is made.

Of course, a fundie might state their reason as "Cuz God said to not swear, durdurdurh", in which case I won't stop swearing, because fuck him.

In another situation, if the person is my boss, even if the reason is just his opinion without reason, I might shut the hell up for my own good.

[–]BillyTheBanana 1 point2 points ago

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Just because he finds it distasteful doesn't mean I have to tone down.

This is true, you don't have to. But you're essentially ignoring the entire concept of politeness.

I would say that whether you should stop swearing depends on the exact context. Is there some reason why you need to swear in that situation? Will you be stuck in that situation for long? Do you have reason to believe the person is just being a jerk and looking for an excuse to tell you to shut up? etc. etc. There are no absolutes here.

[–]craigiest 5 points6 points ago

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People who say offensive things and then complain about people expressing their offense seem to operate under a naive assumption that they have no responsibility for the effects of their speech. The defensiveness comes across as entitled and oblivious. A conscientious person modifies their speech when it has an unintended effect and strives to predict those unintended effects preemptively. Refusing to do this is really no different than intending to offend. If you want your speech to offend people, then you should be glad people are saying that they're offended. But being upset that people are offended, but then blaming them for "being offended" when you're the one who made the attempt at communication and didn't consider your audience makes no sense. So the refusal to resolve that disconnect is what's troubling to me.

[–]canyouhearme 4 points5 points ago

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If I were to say god doesn't exist in the presence of a fundie, they would be offended, and would probably complain long and loud.

Should I 'modify my speech' so they are not offended?

Sorry, but the answer is no. There is a problem, but it's with the fundie and their skewed view of the world. If anything they should be exposed to more 'offense' so they can realise they are the problem, and fix it.

As ever, there are shades of grey here, but in general my freedom shouldn't be abridged because of the thoughts it might create in others.

Offence is created by dissimilar worldviews. No right or wrong unless there is some rational logic in play. If you're forever getting offended either change your worldview, or harden the fuck up.

[–]craigiest 0 points1 point ago

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You seem to assume that it's only the person who's offended whose worldview can be wrong. People who are harassed or subject to racial slurs should change their worldview or shut the f up?

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points ago

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If I see that I'm causing somebody tremendous sadness I will stop what I'm saying. What?

[–]BeardedBagels 14 points15 points ago

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All of your reddit posts offend me. Can you please stop?

[–]JCelsius 10 points11 points ago

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I hope he got your very well executed point. People can be offended by anything and it's foolish to worry one's self with that.

[–]poiro 8 points9 points ago

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<Derp face> Terror is just an emotion too but we've been at war with it now for 10 years and 5 days. </derp face>

[–]hackop 0 points1 point ago

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Oh sweet jebus it has been that long. That's so depressing.

[–]chemobrain 7 points8 points ago

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I think the problem lately is people get confused about different social situations requiring different behaviors. If you're a comedian and you want to be offensive during your stand-up, by all means, that's your right, if people don't like it they don't have to watch. But then some poor schmuck watches some stand-up and then goes to the office next day and starts saying stuff that's sexist or racist or (gulp) antitheist and they're surprised (or, perhaps, offended) when they get a stern talking to from HR. Learn your boundaries, people.

[–]DirtySketel[!] 1 point2 points ago

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I think some things are ok to be 'offended' by if the original statement was made with malice. But I think it is the sentiment that is offensive, rather than the actual phrase.

Example: someone approaches me in the street and says I'm a shithead. I'd probably find that quite offensive, but obviously that person was a dick so what's the worry anyway?

[–]Rheic 1 point2 points ago

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I think the problem is that it's a completely pointless thing to say. If you want someone to reconsider what they think then you should present a valid argument against it, not just say "You've offended me" and then wait for them to reply as if you've actually contributed anything to the argument (or worse, as if they owe you an apology). What emotional reaction a person has to something is completely irrelevant to a rational debate.

[–]StuartGibson 6 points7 points ago

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It stems from this bizarre idea a lot of people now have that they have the right to not be offended. By saying they're offended, what they are actually doing is telling you that you shouldn't be allowed to say whatever offended them.

[–]cephas_rock 1 point2 points ago

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No, they're saying you ought to reconsider what you're saying, not that "you shouldn't be allowed to say it." "You shouldn't be allowed to say it" is actually a rather absurd non sequitur.

[–]bobafoote 1 point2 points ago

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So should I reconsider what I am saying for everyone? No. I think that is the crux of this argument. Let me have my opinion. If you don't agree with it, fine. But please, quit whining about it.

[–]jdac 0 points1 point ago

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It's a defensive reaction to theists who use offense at atheism as a silencing tactic. But Fry's denigration of offense as whining misses the point, and what he suggests is unconscionable.

Offense at atheism is a problem because it caters to the institutional power and privilege of religion. While genuinely felt, giving it the deference of action would reinforce an unjust power structure.

Pretending there is never meaning to or reason for offense, though, makes one an unwitting accomplice to the actual hurt and erasure real people suffer from the words and deeds of others.

I'm with you. I don't sympathize with the idea that you should be able to be a callous jerk with impunity.

[–]SubtleMockery 23 points24 points ago

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[–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 2 points3 points ago

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[–]down_vote_that 4 points5 points ago

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Fuck that place.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points ago

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I'm not following. By stating that they are offended they are expressing some level of displeasure with whatever is offending them. Surely that is useful information so that we can calculate whether or not whatever is causing this should be stopped/removed etc...

[–]funnynickname 5 points6 points ago

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[–]plesiosaur 0 points1 point ago

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This guy says it as well as anyone.

[–]Locke92 4 points5 points ago

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Sure, okay. But what Mr. Fry is talking about is that people will use their offense as a weapon against ideas they find distasteful. For instance, what kind of reaction should someone who is offended by someone else saying that the Holocaust was a real historical event? Fry is not talking about general interpersonal interaction, but about manipulation (both emotional and legal) based solely on one party's "offendedness." At an interpersonal level it makes sense to consider your conversation partners' reactions to your statements and there is never cause to go out of one's way to be a dick to others, but those definitions are subjective, and given that there are people who get "offended" when they find out that not everyone agrees with their positions on every issue I am forced to generally agree with Mr. Fry's statement.

Being offended doesn't cause harm, enforcing one's beliefs on others to avoid being offended can and does.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago*

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This explains my position much better than I can: Offense versus harm minimization - although it is definitely a complicated issue and I am being intentionally contrarian.

[–]Yeti60 12 points13 points ago

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If I hear something like a racist remark, or something that debases the serious issue of sexual violence against women, I will speak up and say I'm offended and voice my opinion that the speaker is in the wrong. Sorry Stephen Fry, those things offend me and I think they should offend any modern, intelligent person.

[–]TrevorBradley 8 points9 points ago

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"I'm offended and...". The "and" - voicing your opinion why the speaker is wrong - is the most important part.

"I'm offended; your racist remarks cause harm to others because it devalues self-worth solely on the bases of skin colour rather than a person's behaviour".

Actually, "That's racist" is probably more concise than "I'm offended".

I think the common fault is that "I'm offended" has become acceptable shorthand - a passive retort rather than an active one that the speaker believes will cause less conflict.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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I prefer Stephen Fry on the new iPhone:

"THIS THING'S BLOODY AMAZING. Now I'm just left wondering why you asked me to do an impartial review?"

[–]8BitHappens 4 points5 points ago

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If anybody is interested, here is the full talk from which this quotation was obtained.

[–]OFFthecuff 3 points4 points ago

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I understand where he's coming from, but I have to say I don't like the quote. To certain degree he's right, but it's not as if words don't have power.

If someone publicly says, "Stephen Fry is a pedophile. I've seen his collection of kiddie porn," he may be offended by that. When he goes to press charges against his accuser for slander should the officer taking his statement say, "So fucking what?"

If my neighbor spends all day, every day, yelling at his young son to stop being so stupid, ugly and worthless am I allowed to be offended? Is he? Or is getting up in arms about verbal abuset just "whining"?

What if the head of US Health & Human Services held a press conference to say, "If a woman gets raped while she is wearing a short skirt, it is my opinion that she probably deserved it"? Would it make me a stick in the mud to get offended by that kind of statement from a person in a position of power and influence?

Sure, some people get their panties in a bunch because a comedian uses profanity and that's ridiculous. No harm has ever come to a person because someone with a microphone said "shit" on stage. There are other scenarios where a person can cause damage with words - psychological damage, damage to a reputation, damage to the progress of society.

[–]LynusBorg 0 points1 point ago

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  • accusing someone of a crime that you know he hasn't commited would be defamation
  • bad parenting can end in child services taking your kid away
  • One can argue that blaming the victim is both hindering the individual's psychological recovery and diminishing the responsibility of people who comit a crime, namely rape

None of the above are about simply "being offended", but more. Your argument therefore isn't one.

[–]hackop 0 points1 point ago

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Well, in your first example, that isn't protected speech. That kind of statement is an accusation masquerading as fact in order to cause harm (physical and/or non-physical) to a person. That's why it's illegal. If that same person said "It's my opinion that Stephen Fry is a pedophile." and omitted the factual statement of "I've seen his collection of kiddie porn" which is an outright provable lie (in your example), then who cares if he says that?

In your second example, why would you be offended if he did this to his kid? I don't think offended would be correct in this situation. Perhaps concerned for the child's health and well-being, but not offended at the words coming out of the father's mouth. I'm not sure if it constitutes child abuse, but if so then it should be reported.

In your third example, I would be ok with that happening because it's explicitly stated that it is this person's opinion. So yes, you'd be a "stick in the mud" to be offended. Now, I wouldn't be offended that she said it, but I would question her ability to make sound decisions in her position. Her opinion is incorrect (and yes, opinions can be wrong: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/you_are_never_e.html) and she should most likely be ousted from her role.

Specifically related to your last example, my opinion that she is not fit for her position and should be removed is not based on whether or not her statement was offensive. It is based on logical ideas of her competency and her views on society (no one deserves to get raped).

[–]moonflower 21 points22 points ago

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I don't like that quote, because he is making assumptions about the person's beliefs when they express offence ... when I say ''that is offensive'' I am not trying to take away your right to be offensive, I am enjoying my right to express my opinion

[–]RightTakesMight 33 points34 points ago

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well, so fucking what

[–]moonflower 0 points1 point ago

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what is the purpose of being deliberately offensive in response to my opinion?

[–]BlatantFootFetishist 10 points11 points ago

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Some people seem to think that, in order to combat religion, you need to throw away all rules of politeness, be rude, and not care about the well-being of others. It's sad to see.

[–]Bodhinature 5 points6 points ago

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The trouble is how not to be offensive and consider the sensibilities of others when the very phrase "There is no god" is considered offensive?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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Ridiculing people works as good social moderator.

If you ridicule religious people, you can make them shut up in public. If somebody starts to boast their religion in public, I make light hearted fun of their beliefs and often offend them. What makes most religious people offended is cognitive dissonance they experience. They believe in god and have build their self image around being religious. When you challenge the reality of those beliefs, you are also attacking their self image. At the some level they experience conflict with their beliefs and the reality around them and keeping up the story requires active denial.

[–]moonflower 3 points4 points ago

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expressing offence also works as a ''social moderator''

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Exactly. It seems that Fry don't want to remove that power by pointing it out.

[–]BlatantFootFetishist 5 points6 points ago

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If you ridicule religious people, you can make them shut up in public. If somebody starts to boast their religion in public, I make light hearted fun of their beliefs and often offend them.

That's rather different from Fry's quote, however. You seem to be arguing that it's okay to cause offence when someone tries to shove religion down your throat, while Fry's quote suggests that it's always fine to cause offence — that if someone is offended then "so fucking what".

We don't need to throw away compassion in order to argue against religion. We can care about the well-being of others and still say things like, "This guy is using 'I'm offended' as a way of shutting down an important political discussion."

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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moonflower just pointed out that offence also works as a ''social moderator'' and I think that's just what Fry is trying to prevent. Being polite is different from letting others stop you because they are offended.

If you do or say something and someone asks you to stop because it offends them, that thing alone should not make you stop. There should be some kind of reason other than how someone feels. Just being offended is whine.

For example, if I curse aloud and someone says that it offends them, so fucking what. He should explain why cursing is wrong or explain that I'm in a situation where cursing is not OK. Then I can consider it and correct my behavior if it looks to me that I have been inconsiderate bastard.

[–]TheMediumPanda 2 points3 points ago

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I somewhat agree but when you've tried talking to a wall a number of times you either give up or -occasionally- lose your cool a bit. I can definitely relate.

[–]LukeTheAlright 2 points3 points ago

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On occasion it can be funny as hell though.

[–]Rheic 1 point2 points ago

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The point is that the person never asked about your emotional state, they're trying to debate with you and you're going off-topic. (You're offended? Well so fucking what, no-one inquired... it's irrelevant to the argument). Besides, we already have a method for working out people's emotional states; it's called a face.

[–]kral2 2 points3 points ago

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He's just enjoying his right to express his opinion.

[–]moonflower 1 point2 points ago

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It's opinions all the way down :)

[–]numbakrunch 2 points3 points ago

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he is making assumptions about the person's beliefs when they express offence

He makes no statement on what's going on inside their heads. How could he since neither he nor anyone can read minds? All he said was they are asserting a right not to hear things they don't like. And he is correct--that is exactly what they're asserting.

I am not trying to take away your right to be offensive, I am enjoying my right to express my opinion

You have that right but the rest of us are correct to call it whining.

You are actually in agreement with Fry. Are you somehow resistant to admitting it, perhaps?

[–]Kemuri 1 point2 points ago

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The whole point here is that you don't have a right not to be offended and a lot of people forget that. Nor does being offended give you any special rights or privileges, despite what many want to think.

While I can't be certain I feel fairly sure he is talking specifically about people who say things like, "criticizing religion is offensive to the religious and should therefore be made illegal." People who then go on to support blasphemy laws that basically do just that.

[–]PoundnColons 3 points4 points ago

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Claiming offense at what someone says is an attempt to shut them up. People think because something offended someone it must be wrong or bad. The world is an offensive place get used to it. Disagree with someone all you want but please don't throw around the word offensive unless someone is talking about slapping your mother.

[–]moonflower 4 points5 points ago

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I don't agree that it is always an attempt to shut them up, it may often be an attempt to encourage them to speak in a more polite and civilised manner

[–]designerutah 1 point2 points ago

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It isn't always an attempt, but it is sometimes one, especially in certain types of discussions. Look at what's said though, the content, and you can see whether it is intended to offend, or if the person hearing it takes offense because they don't like what's being said.

[–]PoundnColons 3 points4 points ago

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If you're telling them to stop cussing up a storm in front of your kids that's one thing. But if you take offense to the content of the speech you're shit out of luck.

[–]moonflower 1 point2 points ago

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That depends who you are talking to ... some people don't realise that their views are offensive until someone tells them and perhaps explains why

[–]PoundnColons 1 point2 points ago

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I would disagree on the grounds that it doesn't matter what their views are or whether they are right or wrong. They have the same right to express them as you and I do, and that should never be infringed on just because people think it's offensive. You can explain to them why they are wrong but most people would rather shut up offensive speech and that's why they claim it as offensive.

[–]moonflower 1 point2 points ago

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You are making the same mistake as the original quote, assuming that if anyone expresses offence it means they are trying to take away your rights ... surely freedom of speech includes the right to express offence?

[–]PoundnColons 1 point2 points ago

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I hate to tell you but typically when someone expresses being offended yes it is to take away your right to offend them. If you think other wise you've never "offended" a religious person. Some assumptions may be being made on my part as well as Stephen Fry's but you're refusing to look past your own use and opinion.

[–]divingwithscissors 1 point2 points ago

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Talking about slapping your mother offends you yeah? It hurts your feelings?

You know she's a fucking whore, right? Loves to be slapped on the ass when a dick is in it, and in the face the same way.

[–]PabloBablo 1 point2 points ago

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Your still whining, and no one likes a whiner...even if you call it being offended.

[–]moonflower 1 point2 points ago

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you can only speak for yourself, your statement is blatantly not true

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]escobari 5 points6 points ago

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somehow they are fine with this, until someone calls out nigger, fag or cunt

[–]Alacritous 4 points5 points ago

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He's not saying you can't be offended, he's just saying that really, no one should give a fuck if you are. Because you don't have any kind of right to not be.

[–]escobari 1 point2 points ago

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well I'm saying that isnt the reality of things, even by people say it. secondly, I completely disagree: it's totally nihilistic view on things, not to be offended by anything.

[–]Alacritous 3 points4 points ago

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I think you misread what I wrote. You have every right to be offended. You can be offended by anything you want. You go right ahead. But don't expect or in extreme cases DEMAND that I give a fuck that you are.

[–]chops893 3 points4 points ago

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[–]keyboard12 4 points5 points ago

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Just because you are offended, doesn't mean you are right.

I think Ricky Gervais said that.

[–]cephas_rock 8 points9 points ago

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This might be the most inarticulate, non-cogent thing I've ever seen on one of these kinds of images.

[–]croutonicus 2 points3 points ago

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Care to elaborate?

[–]cephas_rock 1 point2 points ago*

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Of course "I find that offensive" has a meaning and purpose. It means that what was said hurt someone without sufficient justification, and the purpose is to inform the speaker that he's doing that. It doesn't imply "certain rights" and it's not "simply a whine."

"That's pretty offensive" is a more polite way of saying "Stop being a dick," and proceeds from a "Be excellent to each other" ethos.

[–]designerutah 2 points3 points ago

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The problem being that it's become a method of stifling discussion when people take offense by statements that carry null emotive value.

"You're an asshole" or "All emos are homosexual" both have emotional negative emotional value being communicated, but "I don't find any evidence to believe in God" does not, yet many people use "I'm offended by that," as a way to stop the discussion or silence the view they disagree with. Fry is trying (I think) to make this point: "Your being offended isn't necessarily justification for me to change what I'm saying."

[–]cephas_rock 1 point2 points ago

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"Your being offended isn't necessarily justification for me to change what I'm saying."

This statement is articulate, cogent, and conveyed with elegant brevity. THIS deserves the quote-by-photograph treatment.

[–]Aromir19 1 point2 points ago

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[–]benabbey 1 point2 points ago

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WHAT A FUCKING NIGGER.

[–]ubersiren 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah, ok... I keep seeing this type of thing all over reddit. This, and the youtube video of Steve Hughes about being offended. I'm confused as to where being offended crosses over to being truly hurt. I'm just curious about whether reddit thinks there's a difference or whether it matters.

[–]cdskip 1 point2 points ago

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People who use being offended as an offensive weapon suck.

Of course, people who read quotes like this one and use their rationale as an excuse to act like slobbering assholes to everyone they meet are much, much worse.

[–]williamsunshine 1 point2 points ago

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Stephen Fry sounds like a total dick.

[–]cheappoet 1 point2 points ago

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As a gay man does it 'offend him' that some may call him a faggot?

[–]Joshua4000 1 point2 points ago

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I laugh at mensa thinking they are the top 2%. They forget about the people who are smart enough not to bother with such a circle jerk.

[–]Rain12913 2 points3 points ago*

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I generally agree with Fry, but he's not providing any sort of compelling argument here. This is my argument regarding why we should be concerned about whether we offend others (in certain situations, but not others):

We should care about being offensive iff the following two conditions are true regarding statements that we make which others find to be offensive:

(a). the statement is factually incorrect

(b). the statement has the potential of inflicting significant harm upon others (e.g. the presentation of a certain offensive statement will lead to an increase in behavior/thought/action which increases the likelihood that a person or certain group will be treated in a negative way without just reason)

[–]The__Architect 6 points7 points ago

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This makes little sense...Someone is offended. well so fucking what?

Trying to break all rules on respect because your ego is so big you see their response as less than bullshit?

Sure you're free to offend, but you should be as free to say you're offended according to his own logic..

[–]mexicodoug 1 point2 points ago

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I have a feeling that Fry has been insulted often enough for being an imperialistic white male fat Brit fag that he has developed a rather fine sense of what it means to offend and to be offended.

[–]jabberdoggy 6 points7 points ago

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I think he saying we're free to say we are offended, but that there's no reason to expect that anyone else should automatically care.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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That's not exactly what he's saying. You leave open the possibility of the person caring if it's warranted. Fry said no one should care, period.

[–]jabberdoggy 1 point2 points ago

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I guess we read it differently. Oh well.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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He said the phrase "I'm offended" has no meaning or purpose. There were no qualifiers. You can infer things in order to make yourself feel better about the fact that Stephen Fry said something dumb, but there really isn't any ambiguity here.

[–]rikkirachel 3 points4 points ago

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Exactly. I hate the whole, "Whatever, I'll do what I want. Deal with it." argument. Seems immature to me.

[–]BlatantFootFetishist 2 points3 points ago

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Yep, there are big problems in the world with this mentality, and it concerns me when people like Fry appear to promote it.

It may be that Fry is talking about something quite different, but words like "So fucking what [if you're offended by something I've done]?" don't help.

[–]rikkirachel 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah. I realize that oversensitive people can be annoying, but in my experience I'd rather just be polite and understand WHY something offends someone rather than say, "Fuck you, I'll say what I want."

[–]Widsith 1 point2 points ago

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The point is that being offended is not in itself any kind of rebuttal. You have to tell someone why what they said is misguided or ill-informed, whereas it has become common to simply say "I'm offended by that" as though that settles the matter.

[–]endercoaster 2 points3 points ago

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So... this is on r/atheism because it's an atheist saying something that could be applied to Christians being offended by atheists in addition to the myriad of other situations it could be applied to?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Ironically enough it could also apply to atheists being offended by christians, but religion doesn't have a monopoly on hypocrisy.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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I am a lover of truth, a worshipper of freedom, a celebrant at the altar of language and purity and tolerance. That is my religion, and every day I am sorely, grossly, heinously and deeply offended, wounded, mortified and injured by a thousand different blasphemies against it. When the fundamental canons of truth, honesty, compassion and decency are hourly assaulted by fatuous bishops, pompous, illiberal and ignorant priests, politicians and prelates, sanctimonious censors, self-appointed moralists and busy-bodies, what recourse of ancient laws have I? None whatever. Nor would I ask for any. For unlike these blistering imbeciles my belief in my religion is strong and I know that lies will always fail and indecency and intolerance will always perish.

"Trefusis Blasphemes" radio broadcast

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jun/05/religion.hayfestival2005

we love a wordy hypocrite. it seems Fry himself is the arbiter of value, so he can be offended by shit that annoys him, but others must grin and quietly tolerate rudeness. so fucking what, Stephen?

[–]ephemerat 3 points4 points ago

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This is hardly a fair comparison as the first quote is from Stephen Fry writing as the fictional Cambridge Professor of Philology, Donald Trefusis, who is painted as an eccentric and untrustworthy oddball.

Having differing opinions to your own fictional creations is not hypocrisy, it is imagination.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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fair enough. caught out there.

[–]pastard98 2 points3 points ago

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I've got no problem with hypocrisy, I'll probably either agree with what you say or what you do.

[–]Bodhinature 2 points3 points ago

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He didn't say you aren't allowed to be offended. He just says, "Sofa King what?"

[–]Coraon 1 point2 points ago

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You know I think its cute that he feels we can just disrespect others feelings and expect them to come back for more. It's a shame the world doesn't work like that, eventually people wake up and stop caring about what the disrespectful person feels or says, then that person doesn't just become forever alone they become permanently alone.

[–]ivebeenhereallsummer 1 point2 points ago

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Every down vote for this thread that isn't an "I hate reposts" vote is by some easily offended twat that likely only comes here to scold people for liking things they don't like.

[–]ByeMan 2 points3 points ago

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Stephen always gets an upvote from me.

[–]cjbest 0 points1 point ago

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Can we make Fry Honorary Redditor of the Year or something? I feel the need to award this man a large, phallic trophy. Something like this one.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I'm starting to think nobody knows what it is to be offensive.

[–]anonymoustroll 0 points1 point ago

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Oh yeah, well I'm offended that you're offended...

...and then watch them scratch their head before wondering off in the other direction.

[–]saysfuckalot 0 points1 point ago

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Wait....

Which Steven Fry is from Futurama??

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]sonofslackerboy 0 points1 point ago

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I see what you did there. Not Stephen J. Fry.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago*

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Could've gotten the message across just as well with just the last line.

[–]awayyego 0 points1 point ago

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I don't like Stephen Fry, but I agree with this. Away ye go!

[–]fernguts 0 points1 point ago*

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Many people who say such things are referring to salty language or religious blasphemy. If you started to say "homophobic" or "racist" things to them, they'd still be offended.

[–]Jaymaster1 0 points1 point ago

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what is this in relation to?

[–]musiclover8257 0 points1 point ago

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Well put. I completely agree.

[–]BreSput 0 points1 point ago

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Some things are offensive. Saying "I find that offensive" is a way of expressing the belief that such-and-such at least appears offensive. I agree that as a phrase it means very little unless one goes further and says "that is offensive". It's much like saying "That looks red to me." It doesn't mean much unless one goes further and says "that is red." "That looks red" just means that your experience is such that it is highly similar to what normal people in normal situations would say is a red thing; same for offensive.

[–]seafood10 0 points1 point ago

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You do not have the Right to Not Be Offended!!

[–]PhilangeesMcPoopins 0 points1 point ago

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Dayum he looks sexy.

[–]Velitatio 0 points1 point ago

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Stephen Fry can tell you in detail how he nailed your grandfather at an S&M club, while still sounding like a perfect gentleman.

[–]Ivan_of_Zeta 0 points1 point ago

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so read that in his voice

[–]zorno 0 points1 point ago

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And yet if anyone swears or is derogatory here on reddit to other people even if the other person was a douche first you will get downvoted.

Scumbag reddit: claims to be think being offended is a mistake, then gets offended when someone tells them to fuck off.

[–]Furiousmoe 0 points1 point ago

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My wife is offended by everything! fucking shoot me. I find myself having to police the shit I say in an argument with her, cause they way I say things offend her. I should post this on her facebook wall.

[–]lightheat 0 points1 point ago

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[–]FarewellOrwell 0 points1 point ago

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I'm offended for seeing imgur pics with words, on the front page everyday.

[–]singdawg 0 points1 point ago

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say whatever you want to whomever you wish whenever you feel like it, just be prepared for the consequences

[–]the_ghost_train 0 points1 point ago

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The commas should come after the quotes, not before.

[–]ihaveopposablethumbs 0 points1 point ago

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Perhaps a discussion about why one is offended could follow, people could communicate, get to know each other and perhaps come out of it a little bit wiser.

If nothing else, the person taking offense would have to explore and explain themselves. Some times, there's a good reason to be offended.

[–]markisonfire 0 points1 point ago

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Ignorance and stupidity offend me.

[–]OhJustNothing[!] 0 points1 point ago

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Everyone agrees with this until someone says something politically incorrect.

[–]scrash 0 points1 point ago

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I think it's offensive when Christians assume everyone else is Christian and we should accept when they want to force prayer/religion in schools. But according to this I'm just whining.

[–]xwexcollidex 0 points1 point ago

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Need moar links. I like him.

[–]Slacktoo 0 points1 point ago

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Unfortunate that the most powerful force in our modern culture, political correctness, aims specifically at minimizing anything that could even possibly cause the slightest bit of offense to anybody.

[–]ropers 0 points1 point ago*

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Instructions:

  1. Download file.

  2. Print on thin card stock.

  3. Cut into cards.

  4. Put cards into wallet.

  5. When accused of offending someone, take out wallet and hand one of these cards to accuser.

(Optimised for A4, but feel free to grab this GIMP file and produce a US letter-optimised version.)

[–]theanswerisfries 0 points1 point ago

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Wha... Is he whining about offended whiners? What whineception madness is this?

[–]torrobinson 0 points1 point ago

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While I agree with him, aren't the majority of Reddit users straight white male athiests? What do you have to be offended by?

[–]wwwhistler 0 points1 point ago

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i have been saying this for years (including here on reddit). anyone can be (or at least make the claim of being) offended by anything. so what i don't really care if you are offended. GROW UP!

[–]wwwhistler 0 points1 point ago

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i have been saying this for years (including here on reddit). anyone can be (or at least make the claim of being) offended by anything. so what i don't really care if you are offended. GROW UP!

[–]itsokaytryagain212 0 points1 point ago

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That quote is fucking amazing. Just, wow.

[–]HarryBlessKnapp 0 points1 point ago

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The thing is, offending people can actually make them want to turn against you, so you carry on offending people if you like. I'll carry on trying to not make enemies.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Except there's an implied threat isn't there? "Offend me again and I'll do something unpleasant to you"?

[–]wayndom 0 points1 point ago

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In the 1980's, when the American religious right was in its ascendency, the battle-cry of anti-porn fundies was, "This violates my right to not be offended!"

Interestingly, it wasn't until the 21st century that I heard US official, Sec. of State Hilary Clinton, state that the right to free speech cannot coexist with a right to not be offended.

Of course, she wasn't talking to Americans. She was lecturing a middle east country that had just convicted someone of insulting the government...

[–]XenrexOriginal 0 points1 point ago

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I might have gotten it from this subreddit but there's this...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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This is exactly why I call all blacks "niggers"!

[–]firesash 0 points1 point ago

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That's like...really insightful, and articulate, and stuff. Not really though.

[–]J0hnneyUtah 0 points1 point ago

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I find that this quote can be interpreted in a couple of different ways.

[–]eric1983 0 points1 point ago

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Sort of sounds like an experienced asshole.

[–]regreB 0 points1 point ago

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How come if you deny a god, people get offended, but they don't expect you to get offended if they deny there not being a god? It's the exact same thing, flipped around. It doesn't really offend me, but it still irritates me.

[–]VaekTheWise 0 points1 point ago

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I am not offended by Offended

[–]blackwinglair 0 points1 point ago

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[–]Boberts 0 points1 point ago

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Reminds me of something the Australian comedian Steve Hughes said, (sorry if it's a repost)

“You have adults going, “I was offended! I was offended!” Well, so what? Be offended! Nothing happens! You’re an adult, grow up, deal with it. “But I was offended!” I don’t care! Nothing happens when you’re offended. It’s not like, “I went to a comedy show, and the comedian said something about the Lord, and I was offended, and when I woke up in the morning, I had leprosy!” Nothing happens. “I want to live in a democracy, but I never want to be offended again!” Well, you’re an idiot.”

[–]OrageSyringe 0 points1 point ago

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does anyone have the link to the video where he says this?