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[–]fragglet 35 points36 points ago

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I was going to upvote this, then I saw it repeats the lies from Zeitgeist about Mithra and Horus.

This seems like a really good idea (a single image which debunks all the common religious arguments) but I can't in good conscience support something that uses untruths to convince people.

Perhaps the worst irony is that the part in question is underneath another part that encourages people to "look it up for yourself" and not take anybody's word for it. I guess the author of the image didn't follow his own advice.

[–]Warzonekilla 2 points3 points ago

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Care to elaborate? I'm not familiar with the Zeitgeist lie.

[–]fragglet 13 points14 points ago*

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There's a film called Zeitgeist which has become very popular online. It is divided into several different sections - one is about religion, there are others about the banking system and 9/11. The section about religion is here, for reference (it's the first section in the film).

It compares Jesus with other historical deities - Mithra, Mithras, Horus, etc and essentially it tries to portray Christianity as a "copycat" religion. For example, it says that all of these deities - Jesus included - were born of a virgin on December 25th. But these claims, which are portrayed as facts - don't have any factual basis or evidence to support them as far as I can determine. It honestly seems like the authors of Zeitgeist outright made them up to promote atheism.

There's a more worrying part elsewhere in the film about JFK which I've written about before. For that part, I find it difficult to see how it can be anything other than a deliberate attempt at deception by the authors of the film. With that in mind, I think it's wise to be very cautious about any of the claims made by that film, the religion section included.

EDIT: For reference, here are the main deities that Zeitgeist lists, along with Wikipedia links to pages about them. Tell me if these sound similar to the Christian story:

Attis: "Pausanias was told that the daemon Agdistis initially bore both male and female attributes. But the Olympian gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ and cast it away. There grew up from it an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana who was a daughter of the river-god Sangarius picked an almond and laid it in her bosom. The almond disappeared, and she became pregnant. Nana abandoned the baby (Attis). The infant was tended by a he-goat. "

Krishna: "Krishna belonged to the Vrishni clan of Yadavas from Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva."

Dionysus: "His mother was a mortal woman, Semele, the daughter of king Cadmus of Thebes, and his father was Zeus, the king of the gods. Zeus' wife, Hera, discovered the affair while Semele was pregnant."

Mithra: (Wikipedia doesn't say anything about his birth)

[–]NoahTheDuke 1 point2 points ago

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Looks like you'll enjoy Zeitgeist, the movie Debunked.

[–]Warzonekilla 0 points1 point ago

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Thanks for the legit reply!

[–]Jepumy 1 point2 points ago

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Is this the Zeitgeist stuff or the legitimate Jesus myth theory? I haven't checked it for accuracy so I'm not sure. But even though Zeitgeist lied, the myth theory is still legitimate and there are still some similarities between other myths.

[–]fragglet 2 points3 points ago

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The Jesus myth theory would have been more acceptable, and I wouldn't have complained.

But if you look in the image, on the right side, it specifically repeats all the lies from Zeitgeist - Mithra being born on Dec 25th, etc. It's actually really sad to see how a single conspiracy theory movie seems to have convinced so many people of this nonsense.

[–]leaphar 1 point2 points ago

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And it was not Epicurus but David Hume

Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is God willing to prevent evil, but unable? Then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?

Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion

At least he was the first to quote him, and there are no original sources by Epicurus.

[–]Einsteiniac 12 points13 points ago

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I think this is a great idea, but I'm not thrilled with this particular execution of it. For one, it's just unattractive and muddled. I'm no graphic designer, but surely something more attractive and professional looking can be achieved.

Secondly, it appears that the content is, in some places, questionable (irony?). I think that, as a community, we should get together and, democratically, assemble a pamphlet like this that is 1.) aesthetically pleasing, 2.) based in fact, and 3.) something that anybody can print themselves.

If nothing else, it'll be something to cancel out the religious propaganda handed out on college campuses and crowded city streets.

[–]ErechBelmont 10 points11 points ago

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Can the OP or somebody else please make an updated version of this without the Zeitgeist/Jesus myth story addition?

[–]GoldenBadger 2 points3 points ago

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Sorry to point out this slight error, but the Winter Solstice is the 21st of December. It is believed that the 25th was used to both disassociate it from the pagan festivals, but to also give the pagans the opportunity to party in winter.

[–]Kirjath 1 point2 points ago

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I said this the last time this was reposted, and the time before that (and the time before that): we are generally good with computers, some of us probably are graphic designers, so why can't we spruce this up? Right now it looks just like the religious papers we rage about...

I'll also remind people that the last time this was reposted, more than a few things were shown to be false or misleading. We have logic and facts on our side, let's use them.

[–]iPhoneOrAndroid 1 point2 points ago

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[–]mrdrzeus 1 point2 points ago

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Old and poorly-written. I find it embarrassing as an atheist to be associated with this.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I need to print these out and start antagonizing religion actively. It bothers me too much not to.

[–]bananatattoo 0 points1 point ago

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171k atheists and not a single graphic designer to fix this? :/

[–]mhurton 0 points1 point ago

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I always mention the adam and eve thing and no one ever has any idea what I'm saying. It's such a ridiculous story

[–]ProzacLady 0 points1 point ago

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Source? What is this?

[–]pipino666 -2 points-1 points ago

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brilliant, this should be distributed to every religious who gives us that retarded, pseudo-scientific folders who tries to prove God.

[–]readzalot1 6 points7 points ago

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Good point, but downvote for perpetuating the use of the word "retarded" as an insult.

[–]Skibum04 2 points3 points ago

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retarded: slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress

When talking about an idea being retarded thats fine, when talking about a person being retarded then yes i would prefer people use a different word.

[–]readzalot1 -1 points0 points ago

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No, an idea isn't slow. Retarder brakes are fine, but retarded as an insult is a take off of the slur against those with low intelligence. There are many many other words people can use without using this word which has so much baggage.

[–]PasswordIsntHAMSTER 0 points1 point ago

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Either you're WAAAY too PC or you absolutely loathe religion.

[–]readzalot1 0 points1 point ago

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Maybe both.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points ago

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upvoted because retarded is a cool word, pipino666 got skillz

[–]SongGarde -1 points0 points ago

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Ahhh! I've had this around my picture folder for around 4 years now, I thought r/atheism would appreciate it. Curse you for beating me to it :(

[–]iPhoneOrAndroid 0 points1 point ago

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[–]AdamRouse -1 points0 points ago

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all this information is false and a lot made up. you will never disprove god. try and diss prove him when your burning for eternity

[–]hgpot -2 points-1 points ago

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I love you.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points ago

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TLDR

[–]efrance1 -2 points-1 points ago

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i clicked this, didnt read it cause its too long, was going to move on, saw it was your cake day, so heres an upvote anyways