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all 186 comments

[–]kiwisdontbounce 8 points9 points ago

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Dear Palistine. See: Native Americans.

[–]tzvika613 75 points76 points ago

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These maps are unequivocally false.

The left-most map - the vast majority of the green areas wasn't privately owned in 1946, but was government-owned, first by the Ottoman Empire and then by the British mandatory government.

The white areas were most likely privately-owned by Jews (either privately or communally), which does not mean that the green area was owned by Palestinians. It is generally believed that Arabs back then actually owned a tiny percentage of Palestine's land, though it's hard to verify since impartial sources about land surveys back then are rare at best.

The second-from-the-left map - the great majority of the green areas were government-owned land.

The second-from-the-right map - the West Bank was annexed by Jordan and the vast majority was never privately-owned. The Gaza Strip was not annexed by Egypt, but they ruled it through a military governor that they appointed.

The right-most map - most of the white areas in the West Bank are under Israeli military rule but not sovereign Israeli territories, or "Jewish land" as the map says.

Only a tiny percentage of land in Palestine was privately owned.

Various categories of land ownership included: Mulk (privately owned); Miri (government-owned, suitable for agricultural use, usually leased from the crown. If the owner died without an heir or the land was not cultivated for three years, it reverted to the state); Mahlul (uncultivated Miri lands that would revert to the state); Mawat/Mewat (“dead”, unreclaimed land, belonging to the state. It constituted 50-60% of the land in Palestine).

By the early 1940s Jews owned about 1/3 of Mulk land. About 77% of the land was owned by the government.

Here is an article that more fully discusses that particular map set: http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/03/map-that-lies-and-one-that-doesnt.html

[–]stabb 2 points3 points ago

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Spoken like a true Zionist?

[–]CherryVimto 5 points6 points ago

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I don't see what this has to do with 9/11.

[–]ReneFonck 43 points44 points ago

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You were offered statehood in 1947. Why didn't you take it?

[–]ProbablyHittingOnYou 36 points37 points ago

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Because they had the armies of five other countries at their backs. Now that they're not in the position of power.... well, now it's time to negotiate.

[–]Nipplcurd 7 points8 points ago

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Because fuck compromise.

[–]concussedYmir 38 points39 points ago

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Oh god another thread with both sides trying to pretend like they're innocent.

Palestine has it's terrorists, Israel has it's xenophobic nationalist army units. Both have noncommittal majorities that sway back and forth as atrocities are committed by either side.

Fuck you, the average Israeli hasn't got shit to apologize for, no more than the average Palestinian. Both nations are stuck in a terrible situation largely controlled by grade-A psychotics.

[–]Lantern42 2 points3 points ago

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Are you suggesting that they're equally screwed in this exchange?

[–]Synux 1 point2 points ago

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Perhaps a better way to express this would be that both sides have plenty to apologize for instead of nothing. Our leaders, just like theirs, are chosen internally and are the result and responsibility of those who are led. I am sorry for both Bush's, some Obama and parts of both Reagan and Carter. Regardless of how/if/why I voted, I am part of the system that made the mistakes and I am sorry - as should they be.

[–]SevenStarredApis 0 points1 point ago

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Yet it is not because you are at fault--rather it is an offering of sympathies: life is fair and people can be cruel. It is up to us to not be the cruel people.

[–]Falolala 1 point2 points ago

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Israel has it's xenophobic nationalist army units

really? can you name them? or point to a report on them?

[–]go_fly_a_kite 1 point2 points ago

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no. I'm not jewish or palestinian, I should have no dog in this fight. Being well educated and from a metropolitan area in the Northeast US, a large portion of my friends and colleagues are Jewish, most of my interaction with Arab Muslims comes from cab rides and restaurants. And i can assuredly state, that the conflict in Israel and media coverage regarding it is extremely one sided.

There is no excuse for how the ruling class treats the oppressed class in that culture. None. Period.

[–]just_a_commenter 14 points15 points ago

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So wait in Palestine you get the worst terrorist attack ever experienced on you home soil every hour, everyday which kills 1000s of people every hour everyday, changes you foreign policy every hour, every hour, every day and America got occupied on 9/11?

No offence OP, but you are a massive moron.

[–]Sweet_Bro 2 points3 points ago

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No offence OP, but you are a massive moron.

Might want to proofread before throwing those stones.

[–]Monkeyhalevi 1 point2 points ago

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Thats actually the accepted British variant spelling of the word 'offense'. The moron statement stands.

[–]Sweet_Bro 0 points1 point ago

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Sorry, wasn't just referring to that. I was talking about the frequent use of "you" instead of "your."

[–]Monkeyhalevi 1 point2 points ago

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Oh, my apologies, never mind!

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points ago

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You'd think that after the first two attempts they'd have learned it was a bad idea to start war with Israel.

But no.

[–]ResidentRedneck 11 points12 points ago

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Yes. Someone running planes in to buildings is totally equivalent to walking in to a pizza shop and blowing yourself up...wait...I think I'm confused...

[–]SamuraiStormtrooper 2 points3 points ago

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Because nobody's allowed to be sad about anything because everyone else has it worse than everyone else.

[–]Arathor226 2 points3 points ago

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Or you could get over your never-ending religious conflict that has already lasted way too long.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Not any more, the muslim arabs there drove the majority of them out. the west bank is hemorrhaging christians like a severed aorta.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]SevenStarredApis 1 point2 points ago

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"he hit me first"

Both of you need to grow up.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Arafat was a terrorist and a thief. I never inferred otherwise. Many in Hamas are terrorists and lunatics, no doubt. But to infer that what the Palestinian people have been suffering through is their fault is scandalous. Its like blaming those who died in Afghanistan because the Taliban took over and fucked up their country. These things do not occur in a vacuum and the reality is that Israel does not want peace, it wants the Palestinians out of 'it's land' and will do every despicable thing it can to drive them from their homes. Every honest person who looks into the conflict is very aware of this.

[–]Grammar-Hitler 10 points11 points ago

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Firs they dance in the streets, celebrating the attack then they Karma whore it. We are a reprehensible lot.

[–]alreadyobsolete 26 points27 points ago

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Given that the fact that Gaza was launching bombs into population centers of Israel for something like the last 8 years. Then when Israel went in and destroyed all the bombs, Gaza, the Arabs and the entire world got pissy for "Israel invading Gaza".

Subtly leaving out the point that radicals were actively bombing Israel. how do you leave that point out?

[–]Solomaxwell6 7 points8 points ago

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Not all Palestinians are murdering Jewish babies. Likewise, not all Israeli Jews are murdering Palestinian babies. There have been atrocities committed by both sides. However, if you look at the two peoples as a whole, and ignore the radicals on one hand and the government on the other, I feel that the Palestinians are, overall, in the right. They were there first (not including Roman Empire-era claims). They are constantly being removed from their own land.

At this point, Jews are there to stay. Just as I don't think it's fair for Israeli to open up settlements in Palestinian communities, I don't think it's fair for the international community to kick out Jewish families that have lived in Israel for the past 60 years. However, Palestinians need to be treated humanely before anyone can expect the violence to end.

I'm not a Jew or an Arab, just someone who wants to look at the conflict from a rational standpoint when ideology takes over far, far too often (on both sides).

[–]festtt 2 points3 points ago

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First post I agree with and it's downvoted >.<

[–]Monkeyhalevi -1 points0 points ago

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That is a false equation. There is no equity between the moral standing of the polyglot arab population mislabelled Palestinians and their Israeli counterparts. The land owned by the Jews in Israel was either legally purchased from its legitimate owner (the Ottomans or British), owned and continuously occupied by its original inhabitants (there are jewish families who have lived in modern day Israel for 800+ years, well before the pan arabian mix that was to become the "palestinian people" arrived), or conquered in a defensive war, which if I am not mistaken is considered totally kosher according to international law.

[–]Solomaxwell6 0 points1 point ago

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which if I am not mistaken is considered totally kosher according to international law.

Is it? Then why have the UN (general assembly and security council) and ICJ showed support for the Palestinians (General Assembly, UNSC, ICJ summary and full text)?

I'd say that

the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity

and

Israel, the occupying Power, continues to refuse to comply with international law

(from the UNSC resolution and ICJ opinion full text respectively) shows pretty clearly what the international community thinks about it.

Edit: Probably respond a bit more tomorrow, but it's 2am and I have work in the morning... bed time.

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Because the UN is clearly an objective observer with NO desire to see Israel destroyed. Yup!

[–]Solomaxwell6 0 points1 point ago

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So, what you're really saying is, "it's totally kosher according to international law, where international law is defined by what I want it to be, instead of what the international community wants it to be"?

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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What I am saying is, the international community does not like or want Israel around, and is willing to break their own rules to make it happen. There is a distinction in International Law between territory conquered in defensive and offensive actions. Offensively gained territory must be returned without conditions, whereas defensively gained territory can be held indefinitely until the conquering state has reasonable assurances of peace/security etc from the belligerent state.

What I am saying is, why should any state put up with the rules foisted upon it by its oppressor? In this case, why should Israel listen to anything the world has to say? Answer: they shouldn't. The planet has neither the right nor the moral standing to comment.

[–]Solomaxwell6 0 points1 point ago

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Or, we could take it from the other perspective:

What I am saying is, why should any nation put up with the rules foisted upon it by its oppressor? In this case, why should Palestinians listen to anything Israel has to say? Answer: they shouldn't. Israel has neither the right nor the moral standing to comment.

I've noticed a LOT of that kind of double think coming from people that are rigidly pro-Israel and anti-Palestine. "The international community should butt out of Israel's affairs!" but "It's perfectly fine for Israel to do what it wants with Palestine!" or "Our strikes on Palestine were completely retaliatory and therefore just" but "The Palestinian suicide bombers are evil even though they were just being retaliatory" or "America should love us because we are the middle east's only democracy [but fuck the Palestinians]" but "The Arab nations are evil because they oppress their minorities." And so forth. Spoilers: both sides are wrong, and Israelis should be held culpable for their actions just as much as Palestinians should.

Furthermore, you're confusing the issue. You're the one that brought up the issue of whether it's legal or not; I think the legality is irrelevant. I just thought it was funny you appealed to international law when the relevant international agencies completely disagree with you. Maybe you think the law in question is unjust or hypocritical, but that doesn't change the reality of what the UN and ICJ have ruled. It's not just whether Israel has any moral or legal right to the territory. It's whether or not Israel oppresses the Palestinian people. I, personally, couldn't care less if Israel has the territory. That's pretty much what I said in my first post here, that Israel has that territory, the Israeli Jews are there, and it's just as unfair for the international community to kick out Jews that have been living there for decades or generations as it is for Israel to kick out Palestinians that have been living there for decades or generations.

The issue is that Palestinians are being displaced from their homes. That is an undeniable fact. Palestinians are denied sovereignty. That is an undeniable fact. Palestinians have been blockaded by Israelis, who have denied them foreign aid. That is an undeniable fact. There have been numerous human rights violations by the Israelis. That is an undeniable fact. Regardless of whether or not someone believes that the above is justified by Palestinian violence, you MUST realize that it is a vicious circle. Israeli violence and oppression stems from Palestinian violence. But Palestinian violence stems from Israeli violence and oppression. Want Palestinian violence to end? There's your solution.

Both sides in the conflict need to shut the fuck up and stop pretending they're wonderful white knights who have done nothing wrong.

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Much of your argument kinda falls apart when you recall that there never was a Palestine and there is no such thing as a Palestinian...

[–]Solomaxwell6 0 points1 point ago

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No, it doesn't.

there never was a Palestine

So what? Who cares? Once again, the legality of what state owns the land is unimportant. Is it okay to oppress someone just because your religious or ethnic group happens to control the state? Was it okay for America to oppress African Americans, because the US was a state founded by whites and for whites? Was it okay for the US to oppress Native Americans, even in cases where the legal treaties selling land to the US came before the oppression? For that matter, in any kind of colonial situation, is it okay for the colonial power to do whatever the fuck they want with the natives once they hold legal control of the territory?

there is no such thing as a Palestinian

I'd think the Palestinian people would disagree with you. There is a clear national identity. But even if they weren't, so what? We could render that as "Arabs who live in Israel," or something similar, and the result would still be the same. There is no such thing as a Native American (only groups of culturally and ethnically distinct people who share the very basic tie of having their origins in the same continent and of the same race), does that mean that there was never any oppression of "people of American descent dating before European contact," and/or does it make oppression of "people of American descent dating before European contact" morally right? And the Palestinians (who, once again, do have a unique national identity) are a hell of a lot closer than native Americans.

[–]LeTouche 0 points1 point ago

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The zionists had no right to take Palastine as their land in the first place.

[–]Grammar-Hitler 11 points12 points ago

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The zionists had no right to take Palastine as their land in the first place.

Right, but the brits and the turks weren't a problem for some reason.

[–]SevenStarredApis 1 point2 points ago

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it's only the most recent one that matters, i guess.

[–]Synux 1 point2 points ago

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We, sir, will likely never get to tell this story properly to so many out there who need to hear it most.

[–]FivePointsPlusOne 0 points1 point ago

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The Lamest Story Never Told...

A story has to be based on facts to be passed down, otherwise you are just filling your childrens' heads with lies to force them to continue your cycle of hatred.

Kind of similar to Muslim Fanatics isn't it.

[–]nightarrow -1 points0 points ago

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Why were they launching bombs into Israel? There has to be some reason....

[–]LeTouche 0 points1 point ago

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The reason is simple. The zionists had the right to a homeland. Yes. But they did not by any means 'deserve' Palastine/ the modern site of Israel as the said homeland. They barged in and kicked out the Palastinians... and alreadyobsolete is wondering why the Arabs are pissed off?!

[–]cdahlkvist 1 point2 points ago

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The zionists had the right to a homeland.

No, they really didn't. The only reason they were treated this way is because they used the Holocaust to garner sympathy.

Yes, the Holocaust was terrible but I find it curious that we rarely hear of the over 5 million non-Jewish people that were murdered by the Nazis.

The Jews have their so-called right to a Jewish state since at least 1492 when they were expelled from Spain.

The First Aliyah was in 1881 and the second in 1904. The Fifth Aliyah was in the 1930s and then after WWII millions more Jews arrived in Palestine.

The Jews then declared independence in 1948 and were accepted as a UN member a year later (which is not typical - but everyone felt bad for them).

I know a lot of you feel bad for the Native Americans and how their land was stolen from them...this is pretty much the same.

The Zionists are just wrong.

[–]LeTouche 0 points1 point ago

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I do see what you are saying, yet, I do think that the Jews did have the right to a homeland because of the years and years of anti-Semitism, the holocaust was the straw that broke the camels back...

[–]nightarrow 0 points1 point ago

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wow that really is simple!

[–]Grammar-Hitler 0 points1 point ago

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They barged in and kicked out the Palastinians

That's not true, Palestinians who helped us kick out other Palestinians got to stay.

[–]Synux 2 points3 points ago

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So those who betray their own are now your brothers. That can't possibly end poorly.

[–]Grammar-Hitler 0 points1 point ago

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betray their own

Think about what you mean by "their own". Same race? Sam religion? It's this sort of primitive tribal thinking that holds the state of Israel back and keep the PT from every needing to be held back.

[–]Synux 0 points1 point ago

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Their own countrymen. This notion of nation is the entire reason we're having this conversation so I assumed you would make that connection. I will try to be more clear about that in the future.

[–]Grammar-Hitler 0 points1 point ago

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Their own countrymen. This notion of nation

ooooh, massive fail in the historical accuracy department

[–]Synux -1 points0 points ago

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Explain.

[–]Grammar-Hitler 0 points1 point ago

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The Palestinians did not have a a unified country leading up to the 1948 war

[–]woodychris -4 points-3 points ago

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TRUTH DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS DOJO.

Cobra-Kai Never DIE!!!

[–]woodychris 2 points3 points ago

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I guess I should have tagged it with /sarcasm. You guys are so touchy.

[–]pigthunder 1 point2 points ago

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I love it. This made my day complete an I plan on using this phrase in the future. BTW, another phrase I've been looking to use is, "only the sith deal in absolutes" during a heated debate.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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I think you've got it backwards.

[–]Arkitekt4040 6 points7 points ago

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I can't honestly remember the last time I heard of 3000 people dying in Palestine on a daily basis...

[–]rogueforge 6 points7 points ago

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There never was a Palestine. It's a made up identity that started to take off around the time of WWII, and didn't solidify / become popular until after the Arabs tried to destroy Israel in the 1967 six day war. People who call themselves Palestinians are really Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians of whom their brothers in those respective countries didn't want moving next door to them. Stuck them in refugee camps and left them in squalor so as to keep an Arab Muslim foot hold in lands the Jewish people made productive.

[–]spacem00se 2 points3 points ago

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Never was an Israel until 1947. That was an identity lost for thousands of years, it didnt solidify or become popular until Adolf Hitlers war machine began to systematically kill millions of Jewish people (in addition to blacks, gays, gypsies, mixed race, etc). People who call themselves Israeli are really displaced Romans, scattered across Europe.

[–]Monkeyhalevi -1 points0 points ago

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Other glaring falsehoods aside, the push for a modern jewish state began among secular jewish intellecturals in the mid to late 19th century, while the Ottoman's were still in control of the area. I won't get into the rest of the stuff, just wanted to show any potential readers that you were wrong on that fact and everything else. Ignorant bloviator is ignorant.

[–]rogueforge -2 points-1 points ago

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The Israelites entered that region more than 3700 years ago, and have had a presence there since then. They took rocks and sand and turned it into a productive oasis. Don't worry it's a common misconception that the Roman's drove all of the Israelites out of the region after the fall of the Second Temple in 70AD and then suddenly storming back in after WWII to reclaim their land. Even after the destruction of the Second Temple and exile, Jewish life continued and flourished in some cases. Jewish communities were set up again in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the 9th century. By the 11th century more popped up in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. It stayed that way even during the Crusades as Christians attempted to fight back the Muslim hoards murdering their way across the middle east. For the next few hundred years tens of thousands of Jews lived in the areas that encompass what is today modern Israel. After the Holocaust the international community granted political sovereignty in the region to the Jewish people

[–]sues2nd -1 points0 points ago

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Finally, someone on this site that has done research on the subject.

Kudos my friend!

[–]HotelCoralEssex 2 points3 points ago

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I don't think that "Paladin" means what you think it means.

[–]pigthunder 1 point2 points ago

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[–]SonsOfLiberty86 2 points3 points ago

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You can't really "take back" making a country.

[–]DroodEdwin 3 points4 points ago

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yeah because Palestine keeps trying to kill everyone. Have you tried NOT blowing up malls and school buses.

[–]Blumpkindle 4 points5 points ago

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Maybe if Palestine had not sided with Hitler and persecuted the Jews who lived there for thousands of years, just maybe the Jews might have a shred of sympathy for you. When WWII ended, you were on the wrong side, occupying the one place Jews could call home. Karma is a bitch right?

[–]rdef 7 points8 points ago

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So, you're saying modern Palestinians should pay for the decisions their ancestors made? So you also think modern Germans are responsible for the actions of their grandfathers during WWII?

When ppl stop blaming each other for shit, then there may be a chance for a peaceful solution to all the crap happening in the Middle East. I just hope it will happen in our lifetimes.

[–]Blumpkindle 7 points8 points ago

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Palestinians are paying for the decisions they make on a daily basis. Electing Hamas, a terrorist organization, to govern Gaza, is a good example. Most people don't know this but Gaza has been launching rockets at southern Israel for quite some time, over a million Israelis have been evacuated over the last few months. In summary, their grandparents lost them their land, and they continue to ensure that they will never be allowed back. Israel, like the US takes a hard stance against terrorists. It is utter hypocrisy to criticize Israel's actions without also criticizing America's right to invade Afghanistan for security reasons.

[–]Monkeyhalevi 1 point2 points ago

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I totally agree with you, just wanted to point out that said land was for the most part not theirs to begin with. Also, the "palestinian" does not exist. It is an Arab imperialist ethnic fakery used to unify and justify their on going hatred of Jews. The word 'Palestinian' did not exist before it entered use in 1967.

[–]Blumpkindle 0 points1 point ago

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Wow, somebody who read a book rather redirecting their internal organs so they can just spew diarrhea straight from their mouthes! Refreshing. I love Americans think that Israel is so evil, meanwhile, if America was under constant terrorist attack, and under attack from arab nations on a regular basis, they would have some perspective.

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Ha, if the US or any other first world nation were in Israel's place, they would make Hiroshima look like Dresden!

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 4 points5 points ago

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Anybody with a shred of human decency would object to both, don't you think?

[–]Blumpkindle 8 points9 points ago

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It is easy to say all military action is wrong, but it is idealistic and unrealistic. Military action is used only after other all options have been exhausted, and if you knew any history of the middle east, you would know that they have. It is easy to always root for the underdog, but do not forget that until 1946 Jews had spent thousands of year being persecuted, exploited, and murdered at the hands of arabs and europeans alike. Only recently can they defend themselves, and now the entire world calls them oppressors. Whether or not they are oppressors, they are oppressors of arab and european making. If you picked on a kid all through grade school, and then he ended being much bigger than you in high school, would you expect mercy from him? Would you expect sympathy from others? Israel belongs to the Jews now, the sooner the entire world accepts and supports that, the sooner the conflict will end.

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 1 point2 points ago

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I'm not rooting for the underdog so much as refusing to condone senseless violence against innocents. Isreal is fighting an offensive war. That is, they are pushing to expand their territory in a manner that has escalated to warfare. There are no circumstances under which I would find this acceptable.

[–]Monkeyhalevi 1 point2 points ago

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Let me know when Israel firebombs the Gaza Strip and we can talk. Until then, save the term warfare for real wars. Israel has, is, and for the forseeable future fighting with blindfolded with its hands and feet tied together. Talk to Moshe Dayan, William Sherman, or George Patton if you want to learn what a real war looks like.

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 -1 points0 points ago

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Nothing like what any of those people would call a "real war" will ever be fought again. You may as well have referred me to George Washington.

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Eh, I think the next century will have at least a few wars that make theirs look like drive bys.

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 0 points1 point ago

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No way. We far too much money on weapons development technology to send hordes and hordes of poorly equipped conscripts to their deaths. Future wars between superpowers will strike at economies.

[–]Blumpkindle 0 points1 point ago

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At least recognize that Palestine constantly launches terrorist attacks where innocent civilians are primary targets, whereas israel attacks in order dismantle terrorists with civilian collateral damage?

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 0 points1 point ago

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Sure. I'm sure the british would have called the american resistance terrorism as well.

It's such a buzzword it holds little meaning for me. I find myself wondering what I would do in their place. I don't fancy my chances against a tank, but I bet I could fuck up a few businessmen or whatever to send a message. Not that I would, as a pacifist, but I do understand where they're coming from.

[–]Blumpkindle 0 points1 point ago

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Pacifist... more like a bitch. A bitch attacks innocent civilians, or justifies those who do. In conclusion, you=bitch

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 0 points1 point ago

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ಠ_ಠ You got me all fucked up, son.

[–]SevenStarredApis -2 points-1 points ago

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Military action is used only after other all options have been exhausted

Unfortunately, this is not so, and you know it. That's how it ought to be, because we ALL object to killing people. But we get a few people who are in obsessed with ideas of retribution and hate.

If you picked on a kid all through grade school, and then he ended being much bigger than you in high school, would you expect mercy from him?

Yes, because that's how well-adjusted functioning members of a society work. I would expect an aware person to have acceptable views on the use of violence, and not go around punching people. When a student hits another they are disciplined for a reason. If it happens in the real world, there are legal consequences because there are acceptable and unacceptable forms of behavior for everyone.

But when countries do it, all bets are off for us stupid apes.

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 -2 points-1 points ago

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I couldn't have said it better myself. Can't we all just get along?

[–]rdef 1 point2 points ago

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I agree with everything you write, except I think blaming all Palestinians for the actions of extremists is like blaming all Americans for the action of their government, or all Israelis for everything their government does; once elected, a government does what it wants, pretty much. Plus, Palestinians don't really have much choice voting Hamas out, seeing as they've pretty much prevented elections from happening once they've been put in power.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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False. I will refer you to the Jerusalem Pogroms of 1929, as well as the Grand Mufti of the Al Aqsa mosque receiving 80,000 deutschemarks to incite anti-semitism and the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Nazi's. The same Mufti is responsible for exacerbating the already prevalent Jew hatred in the area and planting the seeds for its current iteration. As Blumpkindle so succintly stated, do please read a book.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Completely ignoring the part that invalidates your argument i see...

[–]Blumpkindle -1 points0 points ago

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LOL read a fuckin book bro

[–]Synux 1 point2 points ago

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Catholics helped Hitler, where's your vitriol? Remember those "neutral" Swiss? They stored a great deal of "Jewish gold" for Adolph too - how about we throw them under the bus? Americans rounded up law-abiding American citizens because they were of Japanese heritage and forced them into camps right here in the good-ole USA. Where's that finger of shame?

[–]Blumpkindle 2 points3 points ago

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Many people were guilty of wrongdoing. The difference between the Palestinians and Swiss or the French or the Germans is that they Palestinians lived the only land the Jews had any historic claim to. Even today I face bigotry as a Jew in America, which just goes to show that if Israeli's were Christians and not Jewish, all of this anti-Israeli sentiment would not exist. And before you try and convince me that there is not anti-semitism in the US, remember that unlike other minorities, I don't appear to others to a minority, so people will talk shit about jews in front of me, not knowing I am one.

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 0 points1 point ago

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What bigotry could you possibly face as a jew in america? Must be hard to get a bank load as a jew. Must be hard to get a job. I can't imagine what sort of conditions you must endure in your segregated bathrooms.

Or do you just mean you get teased occasionally. Fuck, you've got it easier than the atheists by a long shot. At least they are actively persecuted.

[–]Blumpkindle 0 points1 point ago

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are you a troll or an idiot?

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 0 points1 point ago

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I would ask the same of you, but I can tell you're not trolling.

[–]Blumpkindle 0 points1 point ago

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And I can tell you I am not stupid as I am very well educated and socialized, not to mention liberal and progressive. I honestly doubt you are even in my cerebral league.

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 0 points1 point ago

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Talk is cheap, buddy. You certainly seem to think a lot of yourself. The more I learn the more I understand how little I know.

[–]Blumpkindle 0 points1 point ago

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you know what isn't cheap? A good education... unless you get a full ride to a good school, like me. The more I learn the more I understand how much smarter I am than most, especially people like you. When I don't know something, I don't try and argue about it. Try and learn from that.

[–]beeblebroxh2g2 0 points1 point ago

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You're right. Bragging about one's certifications is the right way to prove that your point has validity. I find that it's much more productive to use evidence and logic to support an argument while addressing a forum that doesn't have a ranked hierarchy. I'd like to think that one needn't rely on pedigree to build respect for their point of view here. Really, I think that's the point of communities like this. In my experience, people usually resort to citing qualifications - that could easily be total bullshit - when they've realized they have no valid arguments. By the way, is your back ok? It must hurt to kiss your own ass so much.

[–]Synux -2 points-1 points ago

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The Jews were offered some South American land but chose not to go there instead asserting divine right to the "Promised land". Forgetting for a moment the hilarity of ones own God promising you something and then not-quite-being-able-to-deliver lets focus for a second elsewhere. The axis of evil clearly had more to do with your people's suffering than anyone else, especially Germany - after all, that's where the ovens were. So if ones alignment to the losing side is justification for confiscation I think your people might feel more righteous validation about setting up home in Germany, Italy or Japan. As far as the bigotry goes, as a Redditor you know haters gonna hate. Second, you're making a baseless assumption with, "...If Israeli's were Christians and not Jewish all of this anti-Israeli sentiment would not exist." This claim cannot be tested and verified so ergo - baseless. Third, never even brought up the US or antisemitism but thanks for rounding that corner for me. Never mistake for bigotry what can be explained as merely one being an asshole. Assholes are everywhere and cover all the breeds of humanity. It is possible that the guy who called you a name or otherwise besmirched your race/religion/nationality was simply an asshole who, with nothing clever in his verbal arsenal, went for the easy comparison and out popped the anti-whatever he/she/they might have said. We're all guilty of this according to my college psych teacher; we find that which is not like us and use it as the focus and excuse for why the other person is less than us. This is why guys talk about women drivers derisively and so on. Most of us choke that noise back and realize how wrong it is, some of us are not so well evolved. So next time someone offends your sensibilities just consider that maybe he's not a jew-hater, he just hates you. In a way, it is the ultimate non-racist thing.

[–]Blumpkindle -1 points0 points ago

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Reasonably educated response. Unfortunately I cannot agree with it on a few grounds. Namely this "random asshole" to which you refer is more "the vast majority of Americans". It is pretty easy for a member of the religious majority to trivialize such occurrences because they have no concept of how frequent and acceptable they are. Furthermore, I am not so stupid that I think Palestinians are more to blame than aforementioned nations... but the fact of the matter is Jews had no interest in setting up shop in any of those places, and asking them to would have been insensitive and immoral. It was proposed, and quickly ruled out as absurd. The fact of the matter is the entire world allowed what happened to happen, and the Palestinians got the short end of the stick. They would not have had their Imams not supported Hitler and his genocides. Their mutual hatred for Jews was ultimately their downfall, and will be for the indefinite future.

[–]Synux 0 points1 point ago

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I would like to talk to you in a different venue.

[–]GillyRoze -1 points0 points ago

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Well said.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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really? Nearly 3,000 people die every day there? You are an idiot.

[–]dbrees 0 points1 point ago

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Due to un-natural/Terrorist/Israelii actions? Link to the articles please.

[–]kpeters920 2 points3 points ago

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Dear Palestinian asshole who posted this... FUCK YOU.

[–]hughiesghost 2 points3 points ago

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You lost a war. To the victor goes the spoils. Stop crying. Stop reproducing.

Talk to the American Indian, you whiny bitches. At least you got to stay.

[–]woodychris 0 points1 point ago

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Um, I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain the American Indian got to stay as well. Oh, and they have Casinos.

[–]dogismywitness 3 points4 points ago

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How about you post this to politics and delete it from here?

[–]Bezzie 1 point2 points ago

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No. Body. Cares.

[–]HorsePee -1 points0 points ago

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I'm leaving this for debate purposes: "The motivations identified for the (9/11) attacks include the support of Israel by the United States, presence of the U. S. military in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the US enforcement of sanctions against Iraq."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks

[–]GillyRoze 2 points3 points ago

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Oh, now I see, so if the fanatic arabs are angry because we eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, we should stop doing that too. Or maybe we should just agree with everything they stand for and become muslims, bar little girls and women as a whole from ever receiving an education, stone those that cheat, never listen to music or watch tv, etc etc. Stupid logic.

[–]bobothetractor 0 points1 point ago

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It is the land of the jews. It has been and always will be. It is given to the Jews by God. Go Jihad somewhere else.

[–]ChrisF79 0 points1 point ago

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You guys still haven't kissed and made up? How long can you fight over land that only has significance in a fairy tale?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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thousands of years with no end in sight

[–]ChrisF79 0 points1 point ago

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Surely they can have all of their differences worked out by the weekend.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Thank you. It's like children fighting over sandcastles on intertidal beach that's going to be underwater in six hours anyway. Only with mortal combat and human rights violations.

[–]dbroyles 1 point2 points ago

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How the fuck does someone running planes into our buidings compare to you pussies not standing your ground and losing your land?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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Al Qaeda and many other islamists believe it is a religious imperative that all muslims, from Spain to Thailand, must be united in a new Caliphate, ruled by righteous muslims (ie themselves). The existence of of a non-muslim country smack in that area is therefore an attack and an insult to Islam, and any power which supports Israel is also an enemy attacking Islam.

To Al Qaeda and people who think like them, 9/11 was self defense.

Note that they do not really give a shit about the palestinians, their only importance is that they're muslims and useful in propaganda and as cannon-fodder.

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Hahahahahahahaha Never mind that there is no such thing as a Palestinian or Palestine. Holy shit you guys crack me up. May you know real suffering and learn from it. It would make you a better person.

[–]TimMitchell 0 points1 point ago

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First of all, the situation is way more complex than you're giving it credit for.

Second, I doubt you're a Palestinian paladin87.

[–]mikepoulin -3 points-2 points ago

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[–]ProbablyHittingOnYou -4 points-3 points ago

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Yeah! Israel should blow up Italy now because way back when, Rome also conquered the middle east.

Fuck this logic and fuck you. The past is the past. Israel has no "rightful" claim to the land because some of their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago.

[–]mikepoulin 7 points8 points ago

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Probably the worst flirting i have ever seen.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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Be careful with that argument, hardly any Palestinian refugees outside israeli borders were born in what today is Israel. Half a million left, most of which are now dead of old age, but 5 million would like to return.

[–]FWilly -2 points-1 points ago

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Dear Palestinian, there is no more Palestine.

You continue to bring it upon yourselves.

Enjoy!

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Dear Palestinian, there is no more never was a Palestine. You continue to bring it upon yourselves. Enjoy!

FTFY

[–]SwiggerSwagger 0 points1 point ago

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They're second-class citizens, fighting because they are cornered! What do you expect/want them to do?

[–]FWilly 1 point2 points ago

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No Mr. SwiggerSwagger. I expect them to die!

[–]SwiggerSwagger 1 point2 points ago

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Free laser hair removal for all the Arabs!

[–]FWilly 0 points1 point ago

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LOL!

[–]Monkeyhalevi 0 points1 point ago

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Umm... nothing... they aren't citizens. Those Arab Israelis who are citizens are not fighting. I see what you did there...

[–]callipygian1 0 points1 point ago

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palestine, they hate you for your freedom.

[–]just_a_commenter 0 points1 point ago

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So wait in Palestine you get the worst terrorist attack ever experienced on you home soil every hour, everyday which kills 1000s of people every hour everyday, changes you foreign policy every hour, every hour, every day?

No offence OP, but you are a massive moron

[–]TheShader 0 points1 point ago

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Why did you post of a map of California with Native American land loss?

[–]tdogg650 0 points1 point ago

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At least you still have the Gaza Strip, amirite?

[–]geekcatholic -5 points-4 points ago

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Dear Palestine.

Stop making stuff up, and stop blaming Israel for your problems and wonder why all the other Arab states refuse to allow you to become citizens or emigrate. You're being used as political pawns against the people of Israel.

BTW, when are you going to apologize for this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k

[–]SwiggerSwagger -1 points0 points ago

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Why is it that if I want to support people that are being oppressed, I have to hate the oppressors? I am no anti-Semite but the treatment of the Palestinians is like you would treat a pest, like rats. "They bring it upon their selves." Really? What do you expect from oppressed people? You expect them to keel over and die?

[–]dieselphiend -5 points-4 points ago

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Screw Israel! I wish Palestinians all the best!

[–]GillyRoze -2 points-1 points ago

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[–]Im_more_ignorant -1 points0 points ago

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Don't you mean 7/24?

[–]icbat -1 points0 points ago

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If you give a mouse a cookie...

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points ago

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Hey Palestine how come you suck you cant win a war in 66+ years. People dont respect the losers of history and if you dont do something soon you will loose completely and be forgotten

[–]ModernDemagogue -1 points0 points ago

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No; in order for it to be the same, you guys would've been attacked once, then fucked up Israel, and two years later decided to invade Guinea-Bissau for their delicious cashews, as well as start a global campaign of rendition and interrogation.

If you guys don't like what's happening to you: stop it.

[–]Saphron184 -5 points-4 points ago

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Oh, I don't give a fuck. I just realy want to bust a nut. Your pussy is so titight.