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all 115 comments

[–]HerrBongwasser 15 points16 points ago

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"it had to be an inside job, how else could the photographer haven been in this spot to capture this image so perfectly."

yeah a coworker said that today...

[–]iheartbakon 18 points19 points ago

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What does this have to do with atheism?

[–]Blackplatypus 6 points7 points ago

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You haven't noticed by now that r/atheism has a tendency to drift towards r/skepticism?

There's only so many times we can agree with each other and laugh at religious jackasses before we feel like branching out a little.

[–]NuclearWookie 8 points9 points ago

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It's just circle jerking.

[–]cypherdtraitor 0 points1 point ago

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Its a subtle attempt to use argument tu toque, because most of r/atheism doesn't view 9/11 skeptically.

[–]coppersink 0 points1 point ago

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Yes we do. We view 9/11 conspiracy theories VERY skeptically.

[–]HPDerpcraft 0 points1 point ago

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It's just as silly a belief as sky faeries. And also 9/11 conspiracy theorists would have you believe it wasn't a bunch of sky-fairy fanatics.

[–]josiahw 2 points3 points ago

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So... bad theory= something something religion is dumb?

[–]HPDerpcraft 1 point2 points ago

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As an atheist, all unfounded ideas are equally unfounded. There's nothing special about theological bad ideas, because it's all nonsense. In the comic above, obiwan is critiquing the WTC bombing story as though it were an "inside job," not done by religious extremists. This is parallel to the story arc in Episode IV where (I can't believe I'm explaining Star Wars on the internet) the attack on the sandcrawler was actually perpetrated by storm troopers, not the sandpeople as it was made to look.

It's really not that hard. Yes, it's tenuous, but it's related.

[–]josiahw -1 points0 points ago

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So its ok to post any unfounded idea in r/atheism?

[–]HPDerpcraft 1 point2 points ago

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I would argue fundamentally that /r/atheism could really be nested in r/skeptic somewhere, but it does have a particular bent. So no.

My reasoning above was prefaced by relating the picture/message/whatever to people who would deny that crazy religious extremists committed the atrocity. Yes. It's loose. Yes it's 9/11 Karma whoring, but it does have a connection.

[–]NuclearWookie 8 points9 points ago

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I'm no truther, but there's no way in hell I think we've been told the whole story of what happened that day.

[–]darkangelx 7 points8 points ago

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still waiting for a REAL video to be released on the pentagon attack...

Scumbag Government: have 1000 cameras aimed at the Pentagon

Release the footage from the 1fps guard shack at the parking garage.

[–]NuclearWookie 2 points3 points ago

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Yeah, that's the main thing that give me pause: there's no way there's not more footage of an attack on the headquarters of the largest military the world has ever seen.

[–]darkangelx 0 points1 point ago

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But why wont they release it?

[–]weforgottenuno -4 points-3 points ago

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Why would they release the video of people dying? That'd be kind of sick IMO.

[–]NuclearWookie 2 points3 points ago

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You wouldn't be able to see any gore or individual deaths from, say, parking lot cameras that may have shown a plane crashing into an unoccupied sector of the Pentagon. We have plenty of footage of the WTC buildings being hit. Why don't we have similar footage of a building complex that must be more well monitored than a New York skyscraper?

[–]weforgottenuno 0 points1 point ago

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Individuals' videotapes sent into news agencies =/= government security cameras.

[–]NuclearWookie 1 point2 points ago

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Who owns the government? The citizens? As in "us"? Why would they have reason to hide footage of planes smashing into the Pentagon?

[–]wahwahwildcat 1 point2 points ago

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Does anyone have a review of evidence 9/11 'truther's' use? (Preferrably from a source that won't be deemed illegitimate by either side.) I have my doubts, but I am not sold on anything other than the NOVA special I've seen. Thanks in advance!

[–]sanjiallblue 1 point2 points ago

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(Preferrably from a source that won't be deemed illegitimate by either side.)

The way conspiracy theories work (and religion for that matter) is that they reject all evidence that contradicts their crazy narrative.

[–]wahwahwildcat 0 points1 point ago

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I understand.. But I meant from a real source... Something like NBC, ABC? New York Times?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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well there was a debate between the loose change guys and popular mechanics. It is pretty easy to see that the conspiracy theories just fall apart.

[–]wahwahwildcat 1 point2 points ago

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Perfect! Muchos gracias. = )

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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De Nada

[–]platotld 0 points1 point ago

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popular mechcanics should arugue with these gents :

http://www.ae911truth.org

[–]mc_curtis10 2 points3 points ago

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Honestly, if 9/11 was an inside job, then NBC, ABC, and all of the other of major news outlets would be the least likely sources to provide legitimate evidence against the widely accepted understanding of 9/11. Any entity that could and would orchestrate something like 9/11 would have the power to manipulate the media into not providing thought provoking or controversial points on the subject. Simply put, as the media can be a tool of those in power, anything that the perpetrators think can be threatening, simply wouldn't be reported by a real source.

[–]d3adbor3d2 1 point2 points ago

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Oh yea, the same NBC who was owned by GE which is a weapons manufacturer. Do you recall the massive push these networks did to invade Iraq?

[–]platotld 0 points1 point ago

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How about nist, or 1000 engineers.

Read and question all I ask, conclude for yourself what is right. Rely on one one but yourself to seek the answers.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.cfm

http://www.wtc7.net/

start here

[–]platotld 0 points1 point ago

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Use logic, wtc7 falls in under 10 seconds, straight down. ANd it was not a controlled demo? Do explain?

[–]eromitlab 1 point2 points ago

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(Preferrably from a source that won't be deemed illegitimate by either side.)

If it criticizes trutherdom, it will be rejected out of hand for that reason alone. Think of how truthers cite verbal slip-ups as evidence of their conspiracy. People whose words are never to be trusted suddenly become trustworthy when they say missile instead of plane, then immediately become untrustworthy again afterward.

[–]wahwahwildcat 1 point2 points ago

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I understand man. I'm not arguing that. I just wanted to see their 'evidence' without having to sit through some seminar, or read Jesse Ventura's book. haha

[–]creakybulks 0 points1 point ago

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Their evidence mostly consists of video clips and "strange" photographs and cherry picked witness testimony taken within the first six or seven hours of the attacks. You know, when smoke and ruin basically covered the entirety of Manhattan, obscuring the crash sites.

[–]Kennian -5 points-4 points ago

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there was a diagram of the pentagon, showing how it wasnt a plane that hit it...i think.

After Oklahoma City, i can see the government doing pritty much anything, so i guess it's possible

[–]tuber[!] 1 point2 points ago

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Because it lumps the most rational inquiry together with the most foolhardy, the label "9/11 truther" is used categorically dismiss those who inquire into the events leading up to 9/11.

[–]coppersink 0 points1 point ago

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the label "9/11 truther" is used categorically dismiss those who inquire into the events leading up to 9/11.

I only use this label for those who state explosives were used to demolish the buildings, or some of the more fanciful theories, such as misslies attacking the pentagon or remote controlled planes.

[–]Anzereke 8 points9 points ago

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Okay let's all stop the piss take on truthers. Yes sure they have yet to come up with any good evidence that I know of. Yes they are clinging to a theory despite it being pretty unlikely to be true. However they aren't all idiot, if it were true then it would make several kinds of sense.

Let's not forget the other 9/11, namely the coup in Chille ochestrated by the US to overthrow a decent leader (elected too) and install a decade lasting dictatorship.

Governments do lots of bad stuff, I'm pretty sure they did not do 9/11, at least not directly. However they are still less deluded then people believing in the end times and so forth.

[–]xstaticxgpx 2 points3 points ago

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at least not directly

I think knowingly and indirectly is just as bad.

[–]Tosskey 5 points6 points ago

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However they are still less deluded then people believing in the end times and so forth.

Bullshit. Obviously you've never encountered the Truthers who think there were holograms, and miniature nukes involved.

[–]oddSpace 4 points5 points ago

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Small widely shunned minority

The entire movement

[–]Tosskey 5 points6 points ago

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The thermite shit is just as ridiculous. Random internet nerds masquerading around as structural engineers who know how a building should actually fall because they watched a few videos on YouTube.

Where are the guys that just think the government maybe had foreknowledge, or just took advantage of a travesty? Don't hear from them that often, because atleast those positions aren't so easily scoffed at.

[–]platotld 3 points4 points ago

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Oh who is the one on the internet masquerading as one who speaks truth... you!

http://www.ae911truth.org/

[–]oddSpace 1 point2 points ago

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Agreed. Every claim I have seen has been refuted before, and the resources needed to correct the errors made are easily available. Yet, I still see people arguing that WTC7 fell at free-fall speed, or that it fell from fire damage alone, or that thermite can burn sideways. It's not a matter of fact, it's a matter of faith.

you don't hear from them because of the Dunning-Kruger effect and the fact that most people thinking critically gave ceased to be truthers.

[–]d3adbor3d2 -3 points-2 points ago

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so the story goes: on 9/11 physics took a day off and decided to take down wtc 7 as if the bottom fell off AND on its own footprint. no plane hit it and the video of it collapsing is out there for you to see (in case you think i'm delusional and making this up). now tell me, which is a matter of faith?

if i may make an analogy, as far as religion is concerned, there are A LOT of wild claims out there. this is what brought me here to /r/atheism in the first place. an idea/belief is scrutinized and proven/dis-proven. some have all the loose ends tied up and some simply ask for an independent (re)investigation. i can't speak for everyone, but i am for the latter.

[–]sanjiallblue 1 point2 points ago

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Try arguing with a career electrical engineer that he doesn't know dick about structural engineering on the scale of skyscrapers. So convinced is he that his knowledge in his field somehow magically transfers over that he claims experts in the field of structural engineering don't know what they're talking about. Seriously like ramming one's head into a brick wall.

[–]muyoso 0 points1 point ago

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Not just internet nerds. That fucktard Jesse Ventura was peddling thermite paint as a potential cause of the building collapse. He was a governor. At least people can see now that its a complete asshole.

[–]d3adbor3d2 -1 points0 points ago

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people who actually grabbed samples at the site. we're the internet nerds. they're actually doing the work (thinking) for you.

[–]Anzereke 0 points1 point ago

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...seriously?

Okay get back to taking the piss, this lot be crazy too.

You know I keep trying to give people the benefit of the doubt and they keep turning out to be insane, will someone please invent an FTL drive a feel a professor farnsworth coming on.

I suppose a clever-ray would work too.

[–]ReverseLabotomy 0 points1 point ago

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[–]Anzereke 0 points1 point ago

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See this is starting to make me go the other way now, three on te same date got to be a conspiracy! that or al Queada has a surprising sense of irony.

[–]mywifeisaninja 0 points1 point ago

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Sure smart people can have idiotic opinions. But that doesn't mean we can't make fun of it. Just relax man, it's a joke.

[–]heyheymymy2011 -2 points-1 points ago

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Yawn. WTC 7.

[–]AKASquared 4 points5 points ago

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Indulge me for a moment. Supposing there is no good reason for WTC 7 to have fallen except a deliberate demolition... wouldn't a conspiracy smart and disciplined enough to have pulled off the attacks know better than to give it all away by dropping another building with no cover story?

[–]heyheymymy2011 -4 points-3 points ago

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Yawn. WTC 7. Science. Cover stories and shit are meaningless to science. Got it jack.

[–]AKASquared 0 points1 point ago

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And science knows why it fell. You're wrong. But you don't care about science, because it's technical and most people can't follow the arguments, so when you dismiss the science out of hand with some made up bullshit it sounds persuasive to you and all the other people who have the same preset conclusion as you. Kind of like global warming and evolution.

So let's talk human actions. You need to believe that the same people are super-efficient and can flawlessly create and execute a plan with hundreds of moving parts, and also incompetent bunglers.

[–]heyheymymy2011 -1 points0 points ago

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WTF you talking about? You high?

[–]namith 0 points1 point ago

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Except Obi-Wan actually knew what he was talking about.

[–]nickateen 1 point2 points ago

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so much win in a single post...

[–]Egon88 0 points1 point ago

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Took me a second to catch the double meaning.

[–]y_u_no_answer 0 points1 point ago

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I feel bad for laughing at this...

[–]Flyboy_6cm 0 points1 point ago

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I laughed too hard at this.

[–]Think_Floyd 0 points1 point ago

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'It was obviously a controlled demolition! Otherwise it would have fallen over like a domino! Trust me, I understand physics.'

[–]VorcePA 0 points1 point ago

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This joke is Hitlarious

[–]SuperNinKenDo 0 points1 point ago

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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH.

[–]inventingnothing 0 points1 point ago

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So, what you're saying... is that Obi Wan Kenobi was a specist?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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this just isn't clever enough to get my vote sorry but i get what you mean, maybe the truthers are crazy, obsessive probably, but there was definitely shady shit going down. you can't convince me there is a good reason the FBI cannot show us video footage of a plane going into the pentagon.

[–]Lav1tz 5 points6 points ago

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Perhaps because it is classified as Top Secret because it occurred on a High security military base that contains highly classified information and security parameters? This is like asking why you can't have video footage inside the CIA or on the perimeter of the building... It seems self evident to me and I think most people.

[–]ttsci 6 points7 points ago

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What drives me nuts about this is that they have pieces of the fucking plane recovered from the site and people still buy into the conspiracy shit. The reason it's hard to make out a plane is that these security cameras are designed to capture images of people and cars, neither of which travel at 237+ meters per second. The other problem is that these conspiracy theories have to come up with some convoluted explanation of what happened to an entire plane full of people, not to mention the plane itself. It's a ludicrous proposition no matter how you slice it.

You're right in that a lot of footage there is probably classified, but it was released under a FOIA request. The real reason people aren't satisfied is that there's no high-res photo of the plane, but you have to consider the media. These security cameras are not designed to capture hundreds or thousands of frames per second. The plane was traveling at 237m/s and the distance between the road and the Pentagon is roughly 250 feet (76 meters). The plane took eight tenths of a second to penetrate completely through 310 feet of the three outer rings. The suggestion that these kind of cameras could have possibly captured something that fast is absurd. People simply think "gee, camera, why can't we see it?" without thinking about the purpose of the cameras (pedestrians and cars) and their technological limitations.

Edit: Just want to clarify, this is addressed more at tnpreston rather than at you, Lav1tz, but I wanted to build off of your point, so I replied to you. :)

[–]badcatdog 0 points1 point ago

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"sand people" "blast points too accurate"

great joke!

[–]odintal 1 point2 points ago

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That quote was even wrong in the movie because the Tusken don't even use blasters. The typical weapon fire arm of a Tusken Raider is a Cycler Rifle.

[–]BrotherC 0 points1 point ago

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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just laughed so hard i fell out of bed. thank you

[–]P00P3RB0WL 0 points1 point ago

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And soon after he said this he was attacked by a half-bionic Darth Maul!

[–]shadowlands339 0 points1 point ago

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is there a correlation between 9/11 truthers and atheism? just curious.....

[–]TFGeditor -4 points-3 points ago

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Truthers are just another brand of religious fanatic.

[–]The_A_Drain 9 points10 points ago

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Except, God? No evidence.

9/11 Conspiracy? Some (if meagre and debatable) evidence.

I don't get how people can categorically be against faith in all its forms, then in the same breath have total faith in their government...

Governments pull shady shit all the time, while I'm not going to put on a tin foil hat and dance around making shit up, I wouldn't bat an eyelid in surprise if it came out in 20 years to be true.

[–]oblivious_oblivion 7 points8 points ago

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While I wouldn't call it an inside job, I do think the government was possibly complicit, and at the very least, it was advantageous. Of course, we will never know since Cheney's farts are classified state secrets. The media latched onto it and the God-and-Country whackjobs came out of the woodwork and anyone that disagreed was branded a traitor.

9/11/01: the day my country went full retard.

[–]havesometea1 5 points6 points ago

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This has always been my take on the events of 9/11. Did our government plan the attacks? No. Did they know about the plans and not do anything to stop them? Yes. These fuckers had plans to invade the middle east and needed a pretext to do it. So, boom down go the towers and suddenly everyone in the government is talking about how evil Saddam is...

[–]d3adbor3d2 3 points4 points ago

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saudi hi-jackers who got orders from an afghan operative and were funded by pakistan intelligence. yep it's saddam's fault all right.

[–]Quark_LeStrange 6 points7 points ago

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I don't have total faith in government, but I am fairly confident that the government couldn't pull off the WTC/Pentagon attacks, with 10 years later the only "evidence" incriminating them being produced by a few people squinting at blurry photos and plugging their ears to any opposing evidence.

[–]The_A_Drain 7 points8 points ago

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My point is that the allegations are nowhere near as far fetched as believing in god. And that there is at least a precedent set for governments pulling highly questionable shit.

[–]napoleonsolo 0 points1 point ago

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They're pretty close. To say "governments do shady stuff" is not the same as the dumb stuff truthers come up with about holographic planes and explosive charges in the WTC.

If anything Truthers are more stupid. At least religious people have a lifetime of indoctrination as an excuse.

[–]BetYouCanNotTellMe 1 point2 points ago

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What evidence?

[–]TFGeditor -1 points0 points ago

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Religion and religious devotion does not require a god.

[–]The_A_Drain 2 points3 points ago

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Neither did Watergate.

[–]Shainsworth -5 points-4 points ago

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Neither did "insert non-sequitur here"

[–]The_A_Drain 0 points1 point ago

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That phrase, I do not think you are applying it correctly.

But hey, people on this subreddit love that phrase, so I'm sure people will clap for you.

Point remaining though that you must occasionally question your government as they have proven again and again to be less than trustworthy, following them blindly is no better than blind devotion to a religious idol.

[–]Shainsworth 5 points6 points ago

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ALL HAIL THE GOLDEN SPAGHETTI OBAMA!!!

[–]The_A_Drain 0 points1 point ago

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Actually... That is a pretty amazing mental image.

I think I'm gonna head off into the mountains, smoke a bunch, accidentally set fire to a bush, and write a bible.

[–]iongantas -1 points0 points ago

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Oh, is that a 'thing'? My crazy boss (not a christian) seems to think it was an inside job.

[–]JorgeChurano 0 points1 point ago

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Crazy, eh?

[–]Rationalwoman -1 points0 points ago

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Truthers are morons.

[–]merz1254 -1 points0 points ago

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funny everytime, even on 4chan.

[–]TehPhantom -2 points-1 points ago

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I just pissed my self i laughed so hard.