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top 200 commentsshow 500

[–]TheDefinition 401 points402 points ago

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For those who don't know about it - Holodomor

[–]sturle 170 points171 points ago

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36 million died in The Great Leap Forward Famine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

[–]Mikpemsto 60 points61 points ago

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This was my first thought. 36 million is a conservative estimate considering that the Chinese national archives are closed to any research into the famine. Frank Dikötter in "Mao's Great Famine" suggests it could be more like 55 million deaths.

[–]daguvner 15 points16 points ago

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the highest estimate is 80 million its just horrific but at least that was just gross incompetence not a lack of caring or actual genocide, horrific all the same.

[–]celoyd 2 points3 points ago

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I think that once your policies have directly killed a few tens of millions of people in a short amount of time, going ahead with those policies counts as lack of caring.

[–]Mr_President 11 points12 points ago

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Was shocked by its absence on the list, arguably the largest example of destruction of human life in history.

[–]sturle 8 points9 points ago

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In numbers, it is probably the largest. As percentage the killing/disease/forced labor deaths of Indians in South America (85%) is probably the worst. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquistador

[–]holyerthanthou 2 points3 points ago

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I also believe this to be the single most greatest loss of human life.

[–]d7b 2 points3 points ago

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talk about ruining a lot of potential insight gained into some very interesting ancient civilisations...

[–]itsgametime 11 points12 points ago

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Mao was an idiot and I do not understand why he is so revered here in China

[–]shadybear 2 points3 points ago

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Mao's not revered in China. It's generally accepted that he was 60% right and 40% wrong, and that's implicitly party endorsed. So you can imagine what the actual approval of Mao is.

[–]CheesewithWhine 8 points9 points ago

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Same reason why Stalin was revered in Soviet Russia.

[–]Anomander 218 points219 points ago

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I had been unaware and just looked it up.

Totally crazy. I'm appalled that I'd never heard of it before.

[–]alcakd 39 points40 points ago

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I learned about it in Canada but it was heavily downplayed for some reason. I'm not sure if it was part of our curriculum but our teacher mentioned that the Soviet Union stole food from Ukraine causing famine there. There was no mention that so many people died or it was later deemed a crime against humanity / genocide.

[–]MilkyChocoxD 38 points39 points ago

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I live in Canada and I'm of Ukranian descent and I've never heard of this either. Sucks that it's downplayed so much, it's horrible.

[–]janyk 11 points12 points ago

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I live in Canada and I'm of Ukrainian descent and I never heard about it until I stumbled upon some pamphlets at the church during my gido's funeral. Then we touched on it slightly during my History 12 class ("oh yeah and Stalin killed a bunch of people and one of the times was called the 'Holodomor'")

[–]jennaberry 6 points7 points ago

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Pretty freaky. I mean, I learned that there was a famine in Ukraine, but never that it was a purposeful one or that it killed so many people. I think history, honestly, tends to focus too much on certain events, WWII especially, instead of giving time others

[–]neverwhere616 44 points45 points ago

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My Grandma survived this, most of her family did not. I believe she told me she had to actually eat dirt. She eventually escaped to the United States with my Grandfather by way of Nazi Germany in the middle of WWII. I believe my great-grandfather got out of a prison camp by lying that he was a barber, then was tasked with cutting Nazi soldiers' hair. I wish I had spent more time talking to my Grandma about her past. :(

[–]HorrendousRex 18 points19 points ago

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I feel the same way. My great-grandparents (who were alive until I was 14 or so) separately fled Germany during the final years of the Weimar republic as the Nazi party rose to power and the economy was still in shambles. I heard one story once about how Opa (my great-grandfather) would sprint to the butcher's shop after getting paid to buy food since if he walked the value would go down by the time he got there. I'm not sure if I entirely believe that since inflation couldn't possibly have moved that quickly in those days, but I'm sure they had a lot of interesting stories to tell.

Also interesting was how he managed to buy a corner grocery store in the Bronx, but it got burnt down by an arsonist when WW2 started. They had been respected local business operators, but racism is a powerful force.

I wish I had cared enough as a kid to get to know them better, but instead I remember them as being the extremely old people who always had butterscotch candies and overcooked meat.

I actually just remembered another interesting thing, but I haven't thought of this in YEARS and I could be misremembering. I think he may have been a worker in the project that built the radio tower on top of the world trade center tower. I know he always had radio equipment around...

Edit: Not to say my great-grandparents had it just as bad as your grandmother, not even close - they always got by and as far as I know they never starved. I'm just echoing your statement that I wish I had talked to them more.

[–]anirdnas 11 points12 points ago

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We had similar hyperinflation in Yugoslavia in 1994, so it is definitely possible. Prices would double in an hour if not faster.

[–]HorrendousRex 2 points3 points ago

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True, and I'm sorry you had to deal with that, but my point was that in 1934 or so there simply wouldn't be the mechanism in place for inflation to move that quickly. Right?

[–]senescent 6 points7 points ago

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My Grandparents and their families survived it too. I grew up with their stories of the event. People were eating everything in sight - stray animals, livestock, and even sometimes their dead neighbors.

[–]cosmicomet03 2 points3 points ago

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After hearing about people who have lived through things like this, I feel I can't complain about my life. I have had it so easy. Living in a car in America is not ever remotely as rough as that kind of thing, and that was my biggest hardship.

<-- pampered

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points ago

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I think this graph is missing The Great Leap Forward.

[–]buster_bluth 19 points20 points ago

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From Wikipedia (now corrected): "Others claim that the Holodomor was a consequence of reddit addictions associated with radical economic changes implemented during the period of Soviet industrialization.[18][19][22][23]"

Defacing the wiki page on this topic is bad enough, but why would you use the name of this site? (Not directed at TheDefinition, but whoever had this bright idea.)

[–]Ivan_Idea 82 points83 points ago

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I thought it was something from LOTR thrown in the be funny.

[–]cstrong 12 points13 points ago

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I only learned about this about 1 or 2 months ago. I met this nice older woman in the park and she told be about this book she wrote about her experiences with this in Ukraine. http://www.amazon.com/One-Woman-Five-Lives-Countries/dp/0881001074

[–]Lazar_Taxon 22 points23 points ago

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Between the Holodomor, the Holocaust, and Chernobyl, the 20th century just took a gigantic dump on Ukraine. Fortunately my grandparents left there in the 20s.

[–]Toorstain 4 points5 points ago

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Everyone have been taking massive dumps on Ukraine since when the Mongols came around in the 13th century. You should try reading up on it; it's fascinating stuff.

[–]Sharrakor 6 points7 points ago

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Goddammit reddit. Someone edited the article to say that it was caused by reddit addictions. Hurr hurr, so clever.

[–]Miznat 19 points20 points ago

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Same here, I was a history major too... I googled it immediately. Absolutely horrible but I'm glad to have educated myself on it. People can be such disgusting creatures.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points ago

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It's sad that most Americans and Western Europeans are totally oblivious to the horrific things the Soviet Union did.

[–]squidgy 13 points14 points ago

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I'm surprised how many Edmontonians don't even know about it, given we were the first city in the world to build a memorial to the victims. Right in front of city hall no less, kind of hard to miss.

[–]MrE2Me 10 points11 points ago

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The Wikipedia article states that it was "man-made" in the first sentence and then goes on to say that it is highly controversial whether it was or not.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]anemonemone 3 points4 points ago

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It's also known as the Terror Famine. There's a good book on it called The Harvest of Sorrow by Robert Conquest. It's controversial because no one believes uneducated peasants.

[–]mathematical 4 points5 points ago

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What's really sad is that 5,000,000 is actually a conservative estimate. :(

[–]nesatt 10 points11 points ago

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If spell check doesn't know it, neither do I.

[–]acog 4 points5 points ago

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I had never heard of Holodomor before seeing it in that list. TIL that Stalin was even more hideously evil than I previously thought.

[–]Kisiellll 201 points202 points ago

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Being Polish, I feel people typically forget to note that nearly 2 million non-Jewish Poles were killed during the holocaust.

[–]chessmonkey 118 points119 points ago

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people always forget the non-jews who were killed: gypsies, homosexuals, all sorts of middle europeans, prisoners of war, etc. we're always told about the six million killed, but i've read estimates that eleven to fifteen million were killed.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]therealduncansmith 25 points26 points ago

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I'd have been forced to wear a gold star, pink triangle, and probably a few other things too...

Funny thing is, I've got blond hair and blue eyes.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]therealduncansmith 9 points10 points ago*

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It's scary to know that while we think we've moved on as a species, we all still have that same potential for evil in us...

On a more positive note, I'm delighted to have met a fellow aryan homosexual, and that calls for an upvote.

[–]mikeybender 10 points11 points ago

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For some reason the phrase "aryan homosexual" made me giggle.

[–]zazzyzulu 1 point2 points ago

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Homosexuals got it quite bad in the Holocaust, as well as afterwards. See the documentary Paragraph 175.

[–]koavf 2 points3 points ago

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The disabled, communists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. all deliberately targeted.

[–]32koala 34 points35 points ago

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I'm Jewish and I always remember the disabled, gypsies, homosexuals, and intellectuals that were killed by the Nazi's actions. Every person who died unjustly should be remembered.

[–]aleifr 16 points17 points ago

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And the fact that 26 500 000 Russians died. Did NOT know that! I checked Wikipedia and it said 23 400 000, which includes civilians and military deaths. And that's fucking 13.88% of their population!

[–]malatemporacurrunt 3 points4 points ago

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To put that number into perspective, the total number of estimated deaths in WWII is around 70 000 000 - so ONE IN THREE of those who died was Russian.

[–]johnz0n 3 points4 points ago

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makes it even more embarassing and sick that russian nazi/fascist-parties growing nowadays

[–]Obi_Kwiet 6 points7 points ago

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Stalin had a lot of resources, but was not tech-ed up so he just spammed cheap units.

[–]Constellious 4 points5 points ago

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He just knew that Nazi's have a pre-set kill limit.

[–]Rollingprobablecause 8 points9 points ago

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People don't realize that Italian Catholics and the Italian resistance movement also resulted in the deaths of thousands of my ancestors (My mothers family is Italian)- my grandfather spent a lot of time in prison from the Nazis and watched his friend get tortured and murdered.

[–]Phar-a-ON 25 points26 points ago

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no one to lobby for their "recognition"

[–]Raav 14 points15 points ago

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Hey man, us Poles aren't anywhere nearly as important as Jews.

Even though we're the only country that really lost WW2.

[–]GuyWithNoEyes 6 points7 points ago

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Germany?

[–]Raav 41 points42 points ago

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Germany experienced the post WW2 economic miracle, with the help of the Marshall Plan, and is now one of the world's strongest economies and has a very high quality of life. So yes, militarily Germany definitely lost, but they are better off in the long run. Japan has had a similar experience.

Poland was abandoned to Soviet domination, 40+ years of communism, and is now much poorer than Germany. Millions have moved out of Poland to seek better life elsewere, and slowly our country is being hollowed out as intelligent young people leave to work abroad.

It's slowly changing, thankfully, but we are still far behind Germany and other Western European countries.

[–][deleted] 104 points105 points ago

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It's worth noting that today is also the 6th month anniversary of the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami, and that Japan can still use your aid: http://www.jrc.or.jp/eq-japan2011/index.html

[–]Paris_Syndrome 3 points4 points ago

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I never knew that the Tohoko earthquake was an entire order of magnitude worse than Katrina or 9/11. It's the end of the world when it's your own country but it gets downplayed when it's elsewhere. The nuclear meltdown got a crapload of coverage because it meant something to us politically, too. But the sheer destruction and death just wasn't given the proper weight.

[–]dnj 32 points33 points ago

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How can the american media profit from this?

[–]Chancelloriate 477 points478 points ago*

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The significance of this event is not only due to the deaths of thousands of Americans, but also because there rarely is an attack on US soil. Americans aren't used to that kind of thing.

[–]MrGoodbytes 313 points314 points ago

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Also, don't forget the power of a live television broadcast.

[–]captainpixystick 175 points176 points ago

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NEVER FORGET the power of a live television broadcast.

FTFY

[–]larkable 40 points41 points ago*

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I can still remember the plane flying into the building from the right side of the screen and smashing into the towers. I can't believe that I saw these things at the age of 8 and still remember them now that I'm 18.

Edit: Fixed the confusion for people who thought I was eight. ಠ_ಠ

[–]ultrauber 33 points34 points ago

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TIL there are 8 year olds on reddit.

[–]flad 22 points23 points ago

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I thought everyone on reddit was an 8 year old.

[–]skarface6 60 points61 points ago

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Not many nations are used to 3,000 people dying in a single terrorist attack.

[–]BarackisKing 43 points44 points ago

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Or two very tall buildings going down in the middle of one of the world's most populated cities.

[–]Erickshmerick 2 points3 points ago

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Just like not many nations are used to 150,000 people dying in a single terrorist attack. But of course, we're looking the other way on that because it was by the hand of the U.S.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points ago

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Nature is one thing; human deception and terror are quite another.

[–]rjung 3 points4 points ago

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You're right; the casualty count from the Iraq War should also be on the list.

[–]glass_daggers 3 points4 points ago

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Native Americans are.

[–]Richandler 3 points4 points ago

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And we shouldn't be used to it. No one should have to be used to violence.

[–]Jefri91 3 points4 points ago

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Imagine other countries that are USED to this. Don't you think that's worse than not being used to it?

[–]The_FactSphere 9 points10 points ago

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Exactly, it wasn't a natural disaster, it reminded us we were incredibly vulnerable to other countries.

[–]Absnerdity 10 points11 points ago

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WWII was a natural disaster?

[–]pp7k 7 points8 points ago

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No, the Srebenica massacre.

[–]kitchen-faucet 12 points13 points ago

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Halifax Explosion 2000 deaths.

[–]torrobinson 2 points3 points ago

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12/06 NEVER FORGET

[–]shinerdawg 21 points22 points ago

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Well from what I'm seeing on reddit today, if we memorialized every single one of those events, people would complain about having to feel sad all the time....

[–]Dodobirdlord 15 points16 points ago

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Yep, there is too much tragedy in history for us to remember it all. Eventually we have to let go. Pets, friends, relatives, fellow citizens, eventually we have to put them aside. Not to be forgotten, but not to be dwelt upon forever. It's time for America to let go.

[–]acousticpizzas 115 points116 points ago

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The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.

  • Joseph Stalin.

[–]L_H 90 points91 points ago

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Relevant, but not actually Stalin.

[–]acousticpizzas 41 points42 points ago*

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Ah, it appears I was mistaken. After reading your comment, I did a little research and found QuoteInvestigator has something to say about that. Thanks for the correction.

[–]Anacoluthia 18 points19 points ago

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And that's how reddit should always work.

[–]Victor_Zsasz 4 points5 points ago

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TIL:

[–]Vyr 8 points9 points ago

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Reminds me of the Monkeysphere idea.

[–]Lodur 15 points16 points ago

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And hey, there is still no mention of what Leopold did in the congo despite him killing more Africans than Jews in the Holocaust.

Seriously, do we just not give a fuck about perspective on how Africans and natives have been exterminated?

[–]redfive5tandingby 15 points16 points ago

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What about the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs???!?

[–]mudkiporGTFO 24 points25 points ago

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also 300,000 for Haiti earthquake

[–]Rusty-Shackleford 144 points145 points ago

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What's wrong with reddit lately? Why is every atrocity in the 20th century suddenly in a pissing contest?

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]inyouraeroplane 48 points49 points ago

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Moreover, why are people trying to downplay 9/11. I think sometimes we go too far remembering it, but acting like it's no big deal is offensive.

The hivemind is so non-conformist it disgusts me.

[–]SkittlesUSA 18 points19 points ago

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Reddit hates America. America is trying to commemorate a tragedy, so by extension today Reddit has a mission to try and make it so America's remembrance of 9/11 is unjustified and stupid.

[–]UCANTIGNOREMYGIRTH 12 points13 points ago

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What is this? A competition?

[–]likeabott 54 points55 points ago

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you are missing the red khmer and ho chi minh in your statistic, red khmer 1.4-2.2 million and ho chi minh estimated 40 million

[–]newtointernet 23 points24 points ago

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ho chi minh 40 million?

[–]dirtymirror 15 points16 points ago

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Yeah tahat's simply not possible. he wasnt a good man but there simply werent enough people for him to kill that many

[–]808140 2 points3 points ago

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Ho Chi Minh seems like he actually was pretty decent as communist leaders go.

[–]likeabott 3 points4 points ago

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uh sorry, im an idiot mixed up ho chi minh and mao zedong and what i meant was the great leap forward famine. sorry for the confusion

[–]wsupreddit 26 points27 points ago

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Came here to say this-- very large number dead and often overlooked

+1 for including the armenian genocide, also pretty commonly overlooked!

[–]shadybear 8 points9 points ago

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40 million in a country with 90 million people? I call shenanigans.

[–]provi 3 points4 points ago

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the extent to which these death tolls are carelessly exaggerated never ceases to amaze me

[–]ZoFreX 4 points5 points ago

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There are a few other figures that may or may not be interesting (following the theme of "perspective"):

Cause Deaths
WWI (Total) 15 000 000
1918 Flu 50 000 000
WWII Deaths (USA Total) 400 000
WWII Deaths (USA Malaria) 60 000
Malaria (Annual) 780 000
Holocaust (Jews) 6 000 000
Holocaust (Other) 4 000 000
9/11 3 000
USA 2001 Heart Disease 700 000

For me it's staggering that flu and malaria are such huge killers. Please note that all figures are highly inaccurate, contain rounding errors, and were taken from Wikipedia. I used lower bounds of estimates in most cases. I really wanted to include Stalin to contrast to Hitler but the figures on that are all over the place, we'll probably never know how many people he really killed.

[–]meow_gusta 312 points313 points ago

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It's not a contest.

[–]nightfan 19 points20 points ago*

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This, and also, most of the other events took place over the course of months or even years. 9/11 happened in an instant and it was the first attack on US soil. I'd say it was in a class of its own.

[–][deleted] ago*

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[deleted]

[–]senescent 22 points23 points ago

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I agree with this. I think the point of this post wasn't to put down 9/11, but to teach people about some of the other tragedies that occurred. In fact, if you look at many of the comments, people seem to have never heard of Holodomor or the Russian deaths in WW2. I'd say that is exactly what the post was trying to achieve.

[–]monkeymarine 34 points35 points ago

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Thank you. I have to get off reddit today. Every post about 9/11 is from some internet quarterback trying to trivialize what happened, which never happens on 7/7 or the Madrid bombings anniversaries.

The good old "fuck America first" crowd is out today and I can't stand seeing any more of it.

[–]gogog0 36 points37 points ago*

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I wonder how reddit would feel if this picture was reposted on the anniversary of the Norway massacre or Japan tsunami.

edit: On my front page right now there is 1 post about how the 9/11 tragedy isn't sad, 3 posts about how 9/11 ruined America, and 3 posts criticizing America for unrelated matters. There is not 1 post showing any kind of sympathy or sadness in the first 5 pages (actually I literally can't find any). As the Europeans go to sleep, this might change because they will no longer be mass downvoting these kinds of posts, but how much is anyone willing to bet that there's going to be a bit more sympathy next year on the anniversary of the Norway massacre?

[–]airhuff 23 points24 points ago

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they will no longer be mass downvoting

What exactly makes you think that Europeans are mass downvoting anything?

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points ago

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Because all Europeans are the same, like some kind of hive-mind, apparently?

[–]BarackisKing 4 points5 points ago

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This happens every year on America-centric holidays.

[–]dragon824 18 points19 points ago

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They would be upset since to some redditors European and Asian lives are worth more. The extreme anti-American sentiment as a reaction to the ultra-nationalist sentiment that your average citizen thinks is over the top is irritating at best. The proper reaction to "Amrrrrca is the best and should bomb all those mooooslems" is not "America sucks and no one cares about 9/11".

[–]_Pohaku_ 3 points4 points ago

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Well said.

I think that the amount of "STFU about 9/11" sentiment over the amount of sympathetic sentiment is probably down to other factors than European values and opinions, though.

The response of the Western world to the events of 9/11 is in itself a source of anger and disappointment to many people, wherever they are from. Add to that the images we see of endless bumper stickers, merchandising, the movies, and also the ignorance and arrogance that seems to accompany a lot of the 9/11 'sympathy' content just gets on people's nerves.

It's a case of a subject becoming tiring, and thus people reacting to that - and not always in a sensitive way.

The picture posted in this thread is insensitive and inappropriate, not to mention the fact that it's completely fucking meaningless. It's like saying "Fuck that little girl that just died of cancer, y'all should be like 26 million times more sad about the WW2 Soviet casualties!" - in tragedy, numbers are meaningless.

[–]NorthAve 10 points11 points ago

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People tend to believe that Kurds are a fun loving people that are very peaceful. While that might be the case, they helped in the Armenian Genocide.

[–]Itseffingcold 8 points9 points ago

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right click on word > choose "Ignore" no more red squiggles.

[–]ConsummateK 7 points8 points ago

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"Jew deaths"

*Wince*

[–]CoolUsernameMan 15 points16 points ago

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Most people don't even realize how many civilians were killed by the Japanese occupying China in WWII, it's some where between 20 million and 25 million people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War#Casualties_assessment

[–]mugsnj 9 points10 points ago

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And they were killing them at a rate of ~200k per month through 1945. People complain that the US dropped the atomic bombs on civilians to save our military lives, but an invasion would have taken months longer to end the war. We saved a lot of civilian lives by dropping the bombs.

[–]LaughingLion 10 points11 points ago

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Are you sure? I read a translation of a Japanese history of the war and they didn't mention that anywhere!

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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Yeah, the Chinese protest those text books all the time.

[–]goldenbunnies 90 points91 points ago

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Pointing out that there were "worse" tragedies is really silly. Lets put it in a more personal perspective: Suppose person XXX kills one of your close friends.

This post is equivalent to someone telling you: "Person XXX only killed 1 person, but Ted Kaczynski killed 3 people and injured 23."

Obviously what Kaczynski did was horrible, but that doesn't in any way, shape, or form belittle the personal tragedy you experienced by your friend being murdered.

[–]Artesian 14 points15 points ago

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[–]nosferatv 3 points4 points ago

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so very very relevant.

[–]dnj 26 points27 points ago

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There is nothing personal about the media coverage of this 9/11 anniversary.

[–]murrdpirate 16 points17 points ago

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It's not "personal," but it's obviously much more relevant to Americans, which is why the American media is covering it.

Virginia Tech has memorials every year on April 16th, yet 32 people dying is nothing compared to millions in the holocaust. But the shooting is obviously more relevant to the community.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points ago

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But it's much more personal because people view it as an attack on "us". Foreign attacks on this scale on America haven't happened since Pearl Harbor, and that was on a military target and still triggered retaliation an a global scale.

[–]ThinkinFlicka 19 points20 points ago

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One does not simply mention the tragedy of Holomodor

[–]Purplejesus88 14 points15 points ago

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This is a retarded argument, no one has ever said 9/11 was the worst tragedy in history, but it did affect a lot of people in the US, even those who didn't lose anyone, so damn right there should be a memorial service . By your argument, we shouldn't bother remembering WWI because WWII killed more people.

[–]Fuqwon 10 points11 points ago

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Estimated ~1 million died in the Irish Famine. Just sayin'.

[–]daman345 19 points20 points ago

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Well, most people missed the point. I can't see anyone who is saying that having some perspective means no one should care, just pointing out that the amount of attention 9/11 gets is disproportionate. How often do you hear about the boxing day tsumani that killed a quarter of a million people?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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I'm getting kind of sick of these posts. Perspective also has to include circumstance and motivation. Regardless of your feelings about 9/11, part of the reason it was so traumatizing for people of the United States is that it popped their safety bubble.

Look at that list. Are you going to go to a Japanese Earthquake survivor who lost their family, and tell them their remembrance of that family doesn't matter because more people died in the Rwandan Genocide? No, that's absurd. Those events aren't comparable -- one was a tragic failure of humanity, and another was a tragic natural disaster. They aslo happened to two very different cultures, who both may have reacted differently in an inverted scenario.

Stop being an ass. Get some perspective before you tell people to get perspective. There's nothing wrong with criticizing how some people are reacting to the anniversary, but please do so in a more intelligent and thought provoking manner.

[–]Alreadyhaveone 11 points12 points ago

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First of all, 9/11 happened all in one day. Also with the power of live broadcast. We all witnessed an attack on U.S. soil. Sure more people have died, but that doesn't mean this wasn't a huge tragedy! DAMNIT REDDIT!

[–]JetMaduar 10 points11 points ago

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Its a bit fucked up and sociopathic to try and rate the tragedy "level" of an event through the number of death don't you think? If we're going to do that then "only" 42 people died during Irene, maybe we should hold up on that that emergency money. Also classy to see you only counted less then half the people who died from the Holocaust. Guess there just wasn't enough to matter was there?

[–]LaughingLion 5 points6 points ago

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People need to be reminded that 11 million people died in the camps, not just the six million Jews. However of the other 5 million, many were political prisoners or POWs. The attempt to completely eradicate an ethnicity, including gassing babies to death in their mothers arms, was focused specifically on the Jews and Gypsies.

[–]yourmydinner 6 points7 points ago

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your missing this the ruler ship of Mao. While China's population almost doubled during the period of Mao's leadership(from around 550 to over 900 million), his rule from 1949 to 1976 is believed to have caused the deaths of 40 to 70 million people. wiki

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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is anyone elses OCD fuckin with them beacuse he didnt add Holdomor to the dictionary and theres this fucking red line under it?

[–]pateyhfx 6 points7 points ago

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1949-1976 - Mao caused the deaths of between 40-70 million people, largely due to famine.

[–]Droogieman 52 points53 points ago

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Just want to point out, it is not always about how many died, but the impact it has had.

[–]velocity010 55 points56 points ago

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yeah the USA has killed 107k CIVILLIANS because of a attack of a splinter cell i agree that is a pretty significant impact on the world

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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pretty sure USA is not the only country participating in military action. constantly pretending that your country is not involved or didnt agree or approve is dishonest.

most of western europe and aussies have participated one way or another with both iraq and afghanistan.

also, the number of people decimated under the flags of Britain, Spain, Netherlands, etc etc far outweighs all of the deaths caused by the USA combined.

we are all to blame. we all sit and type into little white text boxes instead of going out and demanding that our governments stop.

you are as guilty as anyone.

[–]HMSBeardedLesbian 37 points38 points ago

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We get it. 9/11 isn't worth remembering. This is perhaps the 8th posting on Reddit that points this out.

[–]Bazingabowl 25 points26 points ago

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I don't care what you feel about how the US handled a post 9/11 world, it makes me sick to see people trivializing these tragic deaths.

[–]JonSherwell 22 points23 points ago

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This is a bit like Morrisey standing up in concert right after the Norway massacre and saying "Yeah that was bad, but worse things happen in McDonalds and Burger Kings every day!" A disaster is a disaster, and to assert that any statistic of lives lost matters over another is an awful thing to do, Families lost their loved ones on every single one of these days.

[–]canada432 15 points16 points ago

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No, this is like standing up 10 years after the Norway massacre and saying "Yeah it was bad, but why the hell are we still basing our entire society around it?!"

[–]mugsnj 7 points8 points ago

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Are we "basing our entire society around" 9/11? 9/11 really doesn't affect my life at all except when I'm flying.

[–]Artesian 5 points6 points ago

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That is simply not true. The world has felt the effects of Americans' continued aggression and poor political posturing (Mostly under Bush) [Okay pretty much solely because of Bush].

In EVERY WAY, the planet suffered politically, economically, and socially. The repercussions of America's overreaction and misplaced anger/fear can be felt every time you walk out your door and go to the supermarket, every time you go to church, every time you pay your taxes. It is our profound arrogance to think that we can evade the effects of something that has been DEEMED catastrophic and something upon which we act in some destabilizing ways around the world.

[–]canada432 5 points6 points ago

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We're still in 2 wars because of it, a huge portion of the legislation that is passed is in the name of "fighting terror," not to mention the patriot act. Of course then there's the TSA which is steadily attempting to move into other areas of transportation. Muslims in America still get a significant amount of hate from a good portion of the population. Look at how readily so many people are willing to give up their basic freedoms in the name of safety from the insignificant threat of "terrorists". We are still modeling our laws and society around this single event.

[–]vddvdv 2 points3 points ago

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Some of these figures are also HUGE underestimates.

[–]Beep_im_a_jeep 2 points3 points ago

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It's funny how most people don't know the events between 9/11 and the Holocaust in the Eastern Wold.

[–]Araneidae 2 points3 points ago

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Probably worth adding in Iraqi deaths due to U.S. invasion, though it's very hard to get good numbers.

[–]booobp 2 points3 points ago

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after seeing that list, Hitler seems overrated.

[–]theciaskaelie 2 points3 points ago

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Every time I hear some a-hole try to argue against government programs and our current administration I almost invariably hear "That's communist, how'd that work out for the Soviets?" Then I think of the OPs stat. If it weren't for Russia, WWII probably would have gone very differently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that total higher than all U.S. casualties in everything ever? If it weren't for WWII, I wonder if Russia's communist experiment may have also gone quite differently.

[–]mankvill 13 points14 points ago

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Hurr durr, an attack that took place over the span of a few hours didn't have as many deaths as wars that lasted for years, silly fucking Americans hurf durf

  • you

[–]2k1 8 points9 points ago

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such statistics are stupid. and to be even more stupid: whats with the indian genocide from 1500-1900 in south and northamerica?

[–]rahmad 2 points3 points ago

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came here to inquire about those statistics....

[–]BuhDerpDerp 12 points13 points ago

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Europeans have killed a lot more innocent civilians than the US has, but no one mentions that.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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Yeah..but fuck America.

[–]Gatordiet 7 points8 points ago

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For that matter, the vast majority of countries have killed orders of magnitude more people than Israel has. But try getting that mentioned on reddit.

[–]allthoseships 3 points4 points ago

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These are all people, with their very own stories, with talents and aspirations, probably friends and family who were deeply affected (if not killed also). If you're offended that this is being devalued as a comparison of numbers, then stop thinking of them as numbers.

This poster did not say we shouldn't be honoring the memories of the many, many people who died because of the events on 9/11 (and neither am I), but I think it implies the question: why are we not so sympathetic in remembrance of these other catastrophes? We're all human beings, even if we happen to have been born in different places.

[–]Lampmonster1 7 points8 points ago

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Are they talking about a different bombing of Dresden than I'm thinking of? Because the estimates for Dresden go as high as 500k, not 25k. WTF is that about?

[–]Phar-a-ON 2 points3 points ago

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number of people crushed by individual bombs? maybe he thinks smoke inhalation is an honorable death

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points ago

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I'm sick of this death toll battle everyones having. Everyone needs to shut the fuck up. I know it happened a while ago and there have been other monumental attacks and tragedies that have resulted in more deaths, but really show some fucking respect.

[–]JeSuisTyler 32 points33 points ago

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Seriously, this type of stuff boggles my mind. Other truly awful things have happened, but that doesn't make this any less significant. Show some respect. Being able to point out other tragedies doesn't make you any cooler or some sort of tragedy elitist.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points ago

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Exactly. It's not like if someone told you "I lost my father to 9/11" you'd go "Oh, well it's not like he died in the holocaust or hiroshima. Don't be such a pussy." Innocent people dying should never be about how much prestige the attack or incident has. People lost is people lost, and they should at least be remembered.

[–]Pinhedd 2 points3 points ago

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its reddit, the cognitive dissonance and mental deprivation is deafening.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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Yeah, you're right. This is something that should really be measured by quantity.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points ago

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but what about the clone wars?

[–]marishtar 6 points7 points ago

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For 'perspective,' I don't think we should count things that didn't happen in a single day.

[–]liberated_text 5 points6 points ago

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casualties  events
     1 836  hurricane katrina
     2 350  bombing of pearl harbor
     3 000  9/11 deaths
     8 000  srebrenica massacre
    20 000  2011 tohoku earthquake deaths
    24 000  war in afghanistan civilian deaths
    25 000  bombing of dresden
    33 000  2007 suicides in japan
    35 000  2007 suicides in US
    41 000  2007 traffic related deaths in US
    50 000  typical number of workers at WTC
    70 000  bombing of nagasaki
   100 000  bombing of tokyo
   107 000  iraq body count, civilian deaths
   150 000  bombing of hiroshima
   188 000  battle of okinawa
   200 000  nanking massacre
   230 000  2004 indian ocean earthquake deaths
   315 000  war in darfur
   750 000  2011 somalia famine (projected)
   800 000  rwandan genocide
 1 250 000  armenian genocide
 2 200 000  north korean famine
 3 400 000  soviet POW deaths in nazi camps
 5 000 000  holodomor
 6 000 000  holocaust jew deaths
26 500 000  soviet WWII deaths

[–]HomeHeatingTips 6 points7 points ago

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9/11 is significant for reasons other than just death count

[–]canonman 5 points6 points ago

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[–]mansel 1 point2 points ago

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all the numbers added together up to the bottom one are 6mil away from the soviet WWII loss.....6mil, why does that sound so familiar all the sudden *looks up 1 on the list 0_0

[–]dongimin2 1 point2 points ago

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I like how North Korean famines, a semi-man made genocide (nobody didn't directly kill people), fits between war crimes.

SWEET JESUS

[–]ThomasMakapi 1 point2 points ago

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So... since they could've killed a lot more people by crashing the planes later that day, does that mean that Al Quaida didn't want to actually kill people, but mostly to send a message ? We always imagine them as ruthless killers, but killing was definetly not their goal. I guess our reaction to 9/11 is what made their attack a sucess...

[–]ballsd33p 1 point2 points ago

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The Russians win again!

[–]flip_flap 1 point2 points ago

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What perspective? Are we supposed to feel that it's not important just because you can find times in history where more people have died? 3000 people were still murdered on 9 11. There's no need for a competition for how many died and there's no need to trivialise it.

And btw not only jews were killed by the nazis.

[–]winterorange 1 point2 points ago

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I'm still too bummed about the Japanese tsunami victims to think much about 9/11 anymore.

[–]joosh1125 1 point2 points ago

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Unfortunately, according to my Grandfather who lived during the Cultural Revolution, Chairman Mao killed a lot more people lol.

[–]filmeister 1 point2 points ago

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Just because there were less deaths in 9/11 than other tragedies it doesn't mean that it didn't happen or it's insignificant.

[–]mrjimspeaks 1 point2 points ago

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Why no WWI casualties included?

[–]aceryz 1 point2 points ago

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Some people get offended by posting this or other comparisons now, when the 9/11 is being talked about once again. It saddens me that they seem to expect an attack on their right to grieve and mourn the dead, and so perceive it as such. But the point is, I believe, that the focus of public debate and action taken should be on some other, recent things.

Which is the scariest on the list? The projected death toll of famine in Somalia. Why? Because after all the other disasters, either natural or caused by murderous people, we don't seem to understand the gravity of a situation that might have been avoided.

We all remember about the terrorist attacks ten years ago. I for one can tell that it was a tragedy that shouldn't be forgotten, but should the grief blind us so that we can't see the matters at hand? The media coverage leaves almost no place for tragedies that happen now, while so many people indulge in mourning that won't change anything. Let's show that we remember the victims of all these tragedies by preventing other such terrible losses of human lives, not by erecting more and more monuments that will sooner or later perish. Let these tragic incidents be something that we can learn from, not something that usurps our attention and empathy.

[–]ruffimonster 1 point2 points ago

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[–]ifuonlyknew 1 point2 points ago

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Perspective post complaining about 9/11 getting attention?

OP has a first world problem. Poor guy!

[–]murph1331 1 point2 points ago

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So just because there have been more causilties in other events means that the WTC attack wasn't a big deal

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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[–]souv 1 point2 points ago

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I'm embarrassed that before reading this list, i'd never even heard a whisper about Holodomor.

[–]therealslimshaddy 1 point2 points ago

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{citations needed}

[–]Mugros 1 point2 points ago

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Only about 20M Soviet Deaths in WW2. You are way over even the highest estimate of 23M.

[–]jubalm 1 point2 points ago*

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There is a very large difference between being killed by a terrorist while doing your civilian job than dying in a war.

[–]Khaemwaset 1 point2 points ago

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Gee, I guess that means 9/11 wasn't bad.

[–]Florius 1 point2 points ago

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Every one death is important; that said, 9/11 is the only time USA got stang in thier own land by foreigners, that's why its world news.One can dish out alot of pain, but it realy hurts when I gets back to you.

[–]h4m177 1 point2 points ago

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~1,000,000 Irish Famine. AND the reason is of a controversial nature to some..

[–]Judgemuscles 1 point2 points ago

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Don't forget the avian flu of 1918-1919 which killed about 40 million people

[–]markth_wi 1 point2 points ago

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Some numbers appear off / stuff missing

  • Cambodian Killing Fields is missing : 1.9 million

  • Belgian / Congolese purge - 8 million (conservatively)

  • China

    • Great Leap - 15-20 million (conservatively)
    • Cultural Revolution - 10-12 million (conservatively)
  • For WW2, perhaps it's best to be distinct

    • camps, from fascism : 12 million
    • hostilites, blockade, epidemics, hunger: 14.5 million
    • bombing: 1.5 million

[–]fallingshoes 1 point2 points ago

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If I were you I'd also make this a link post to a image file of text rather than a self post to text.

[–]cymbal_king 1 point2 points ago

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I find it interesting that neither of the congolese genocides are listed there. ~10 million deaths in the early 1900's and approaching 6 million deaths from 1996 to now.