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9/11/11. Never forget... (i.imgur.com)
submitted 1 year ago by tree_partier
[–]InfiniteLiveZ 80 points81 points82 points 1 year ago
But without science there would be no planes to fly into the buildings.....
All you'd be able to do without science is like get a bunch of people together and tackle someones hut.
[–]darksmiles22 27 points28 points29 points 1 year ago
And people would live to an average age of 25 instead of 80.
[–]ifuonlyknew 23 points24 points25 points 1 year ago
...and there would be no hot lab assistants to look at. For Science!
[–]CalmDownImAScientist 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
Forget the lab assistants. Let's hear it for those sexy nobel laureates.
[–]Ag-E 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Once they exist, they'll be hearing from me!
[–]Hikikomori523 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
I spent 10 minutes googling images for nobel laureates to see if any were hot. Whats wrong with me?
[–]Buck-Nasty 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Are you Japanese?
[–]flapcats 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Nothing wrong with being Japanese.
[–]Buck-Nasty 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
You're right, but I think they've probably made some kind of nobel laureate bukkake videos.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
hahahaha!
[–]Adrestea 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
The only thing wrong with you is that you haven't reported your results.
[–]Hikikomori523 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
results are inconclusive, requires more funding and deeper studies.
[–]oddSpace 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
There'd be no statisticians to gather depressing death statistics, and no 80 year olds to compare to.
[–]glass_canon 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Got us here didn't it? Can't be all that bad.
[–]Yobgal 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Well, you could also play trumpet until their buildings collapse. Or something.
[–]Slacktoo -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 year ago
Exactly, it's more like science flies you to the moon AND into buildings.
[–]hollywoodbob 33 points34 points35 points 1 year ago
Let's be honest, that should really read "Adversarial foreign policy, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't."
[–]Jonmad17 -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago*
Muslims have been attacking us for centuries; blaming ourselves for 9/11 is a horrible form of capitulation.
"In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:
It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise"
This was hundreds of years ago. Long before we had any dealings in the middle east.
[–]CirclejerkElemental 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
"I mean, seriously. The brown people are the only ones who have ever killed in history." - Pol "Hitler" Zedong
"If it wasn't for religion, no one would be filled with hate over insignificant differences. Excuse me while I go inform someone on the internet on what a horrible waste of life he is for preferring the PS3." - Richard Harris
[–]Jonmad17 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago*
Are you honestly equating dislike of a particular religion with racism? If so, you're part of the problem. My point is that they don't need an excuse to attack us.
Also, there's no doctrine to liking the PS3 that makes you go out and kill people. It's difficult to do so unless you think you're going to be rewarded in the afterlife.
[–]mavriksfan11 -6 points-5 points-4 points 1 year ago
Shit. Take the upvotes now sir...
[–]o0DrWurm0o 30 points31 points32 points 1 year ago
Eh, science also built the atomic bomb. That kinda tears down this graphic. I might also point out that a great many terrorists hold degrees in engineering.
Science isn't the alternative to religion; it's morally neutral. Science is just a tool.
Rational thought implementing the tool of science got us to the moon.
[–]mavriksfan11 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
No, an irrational competitive streak played by world superpowers with a childish "We beat you at this!" mentality implementing the tool of science got us to the moon.
[–]o0DrWurm0o 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Yeah, I suppose that's right too. I was going to edit it to say "intellectual curiosity," but I think your version is a little more truthful.
[–]honda27 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
That's true, but... we totally beat them
[–]silurian87 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Scientists and engineers built the atomic bomb, but it was the military who used it. You wouldn't hold a handgun manufacturer responsible for every murderer that uses a handgun.
Also, the atomic bomb was more of an engineering project than a science project. Basic scientific research--the large hadron collider for example--is far more docile than war-guided engineering.
[–]o0DrWurm0o 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
If you're disagreeing with me, I'm not seeing it.
[–]silurian87 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I'm saying we shouldn't hold scientists responsible for what the military or terrorists did. It's not a strike against science that the government sponsored a nuclear weapons engineering project, and then used those weapons against another country.
Also, engineers != scientists, arguably.
[–]o0DrWurm0o 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Eh, that's getting a little too deep into semantics. Plenty of engineers are also scientists. They are not mutually exclusive.
I'm saying we shouldn't hold scientists responsible
Nor am I. I didn't even mention scientists. I'm saying that science is not the opposite of religion. Irreligion is the opposite of religion. Science isn't even in the same dimension as those terms and we shouldn't portray it as such.
[–]Yobgal 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
But science does directly conflict with the most popular religion in America. I can see benefits to removing science from the religion debates, but there's also clearly a reason to include it (omfg are you a god damn idiot?!)
[–]Jnet9102 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I find it amusing when an Atheist uses the term "God damn."
You just asked if he was an idiot whom was damned to hell by God.
[–]MythicalLeopard 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I find it amusing when people don't realize that something is a figgure of speech and make stupid comments.
(omfg are you a god damn idiot?!)
Yeah... I'm not actually going to reply to your comment now.
[–]Yobgal 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
To be clear, I'm not directing that toward you. I'm using it to express why science should be included in the discussion. If you're going to simply allow somebody to deny hundreds of years of research and every scrap of evidence ever found, why even bother having the discussion? I mean, if a guy argues against evolution and tries to support his argument by claiming that dogs don't turn into monkeys, then I reserve the right to mock him for his idiocy.
[–]jambonilton 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Science also built planes. I guess the theme here is that smart people build things, and stupid people destroy them.
[–]Titties 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Religious politicians used science to build the bomb.
[–]seg-fault 88 points89 points90 points 1 year ago
How is this nonsense voted up so highly? This is the kind of message you all want to send to the community as a whole? The attacks on 9/11 were not simply religious in nature. Politics had a lot to do with them as well. Religion was just the vehicle used to strike up anger and fear in order to get new recruits. All violence is reprehensible, but summing up the tragedy on that day into one simple image is not only disrespectful to all those people who lost their lives, but it sets the atheist movement back a step or too.
By creating and supporting images like this, you are no better than the close-minded, misguided people [who are also religious] that you mean to attack. Note my wording carefully. Being religious and being ignorant and/or bigoted are independent events, as this submissions shows.
[–]cabalamat 20 points21 points22 points 1 year ago
The attacks on 9/11 were not simply religious in nature
Correct, but it is also true that they were religious in nature, even if religion wasn't the only factor.
Religion was just the vehicle used to strike up anger and fear in order to get new recruits
It's because religion is such an effective way of "strik[ing] up anger and fear" that it is so harmful. In a world with nuclear weapons (and likely even more devastating weapons in the future), religion may well be the death of us all.
Being religious and being ignorant and/or bigoted are independent events
While it is certainly possible to b e religious and not be a bigot, in my opinion religious belief is positively correlated with bigotry.
[–]Tattycakes 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I think you said it better than I could, have an upvote. Although it may be true that religion didn't outright cause the attacks, they couldn't have happened without them. Religion is the only thing (afaik) that people kill themselves in the the name of. When was the last time you saw someone suicide bomb over student loans, general elections, school curriculum, racial and sex equality, etc?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Religion is the only thing (afaik) that people kill themselves in the the name of.
Look up the Black Tigers of the LTTE. Completely secular organization. Suicide terrorism is most strongly correlated with occupation by a foreign army. Read Dying to Win.
[–]tree_partier[S] 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
Just woke up....I had a dream someone said I was 'misguided and bigoted'.
It has been nearly 10 years since these attacks and we still can't have a discussion about how religion is used as a weapon-killing 3000 lives in this case? Seriously? I posted this before 9/11/11 out of respect for the families on that day.
But do we forever bury our heads in the sand that religion didn't play an impact? Do we not discuss how Bush used religion to drum up war? Is that offending Iraqi citizens?
So no posts about Jim Jones cult killing around 1000 [using religion to stir people into an apocolyptic suicidal frenzy and killing a congressman]? Using your argument....we should not discuss the Crusades because it would't put a good face on r/atheism. Really?
I must disagree with you. I stand behind this post. We are reasonable adults who can have respectful discussions about painful events overlayed with religious ignorance. I do not agree it belongs on r/politics. That would not be reasonable.
[–]Yserbius 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Just a note: The last guy to fly a plane into a building for the purpose of killing people for an ideal was Joe Stack who was a proud Atheist.
[–]dcpomeroy 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
Take it up with him then.
[–]VagabondOfTheWastes 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
See: Argument from authority
+1 internets to you, sir.
[–]DanCorb 25 points26 points27 points 1 year ago
By creating and supporting images like this, you are no better than the close-minded, misguided people [who are also religious] that you mean to attack.
Atheists posting images on an atheist forum are no better than the religious fanatics who kill thousands of innocent people. Got it.
[–]burgerboy426 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago
this is what gets me about the high horse atheists. it is a single image catch phrase type of style that is supposed to invoke deeper thought. It's not like the originator or most anyone that reposts this quote really thinks that religion is the only motivation of Bin Laden and the 911 attackers. The point I get out of the quote goes along the lines of what Hitcens or Harris says in every debate. There are things that people do that require something like religion to motivate them, like killing themselves. This quote is about dogmatic belief, something that science is completely against.
[–]Jnet9102 -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
Exactly. I'm a conspiracy theorist with a lot of questions about 9/11, but I still find this both amusing and thought-provoking.
[–]Mattk50 -4 points-3 points-2 points 1 year ago
on the subject of 9/11 i dont beleive the actual destruction of the building was "faked" or there were bombs or something because thats not relevant, to me its obvious that the people in power, the cia, etc were actively encouraging it to happen and have benefited from 9/11. its a case of someone encouraging their crazy friend to do crazy things, and then turning him into the police after he kills someone by your instruction. then you go and steal the shit from his house while your family and friends praises you for catching this guy in the act
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
the how the fuck did WTC 7 come down at near free fall speed? Answer that fucking question and I will stop questioning 9/11's official story.
[–]Blackplatypus 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Ok, I'll bite. How do you think it did?
[–]Mattk50 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
i dont know, i dont think its relevant tho. whether or not the plane or thermic charges took down the buildings the people we looked to for the solution are the same people that caused the disaster in the first place.
[–]smallfried 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
If you think that's the people that are attacked by the quote, you might overestimate the reach of it.
[–]SgtFish 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
It's probably voted up because I, and many others, didn't take it so seriously.
[–]seg-fault 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Well when you were directly affected by the attacks, it's kind of hard not to.
[–]tree_partier[S] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
If you would have shared a personal experience with 9/11 your argument would have had more credibility. Unfortunately...even with losses....we have to as a society is look at what factors lead to hatred and zealotry. If this is too painful because it is 'personal' for you [which you refuse to share with us] realize everyone else [including me] has to look at history not repeating itself. Science was not behind 9/11 and it's aftermath. Don't kid yourself. Name one of the pilots that day that wasn't a Muslim. Name one attack by Al Qaeda that does not referrence Islam. The Belgium cartoonist was killed why? His potrayal of Mohammed. These facts and the overwhelming majority of upvotes I have received-compared to yours [under 100] indicate that a majority of reasonable people agree with these facts.
Your argument is purely emotional and not supported by facts. Unfortunately...you never provided even an anecdotal story of how 9/11 has impacted you personally. I believe this would have given more weight and credance to your argument. Otherwise...it falls more flat.
[–]seg-fault 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago*
Maybe my follow-up was emotional, but I deliberately stayed away from my personal experiences when making my first post. I am not going to go into specifics because I have nothing to prove to you and even if I did provide personal accounts, there's no way to verify their legitimacy without compromising my privacy online. I realize many people might not take the image seriously, I was merely making commentary about the appearance that [I feel] atheists should strive to project outwardly.
Re-read what I said, religion was the vehicle used to rally support for the movement. Of course all the terrorists that actually make the attacks were religious, they thought they'd be met by 72 virgins in paradise, but they are just drones, simple cogs in the greater, complicated machine. The higher-ups in al Queda don't care about religion and many Muslim scholars are outspoken against al Queda and their actions.
[–]MisterPooPoo 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Can you really speak for the hundreds of other redditors whom you've never met before? If I had to venture a guess I'd say that the majority of them take it quite seriously. Especially because it's posted in /r/atheism.
Your "venture to guess" makes the exact same over-simplified generalization that you accused SgtFish of making about who takes the post seriously or not... No one can say they know anything without proving what they claim to know... Not taking any sides, just politely pointing out flawed logic...
[–]shimmeringcircuits 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Saying 9/11 sets atheism a step back or two is like saying Einstein set back science a step back or two.
[–]Jonmad17 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
The attacks on 9/11 were not simply religious in nature.
In fact, yes they were. Whether or not the people who planned the attack were motivated exclusively by religion we'll never know, but the people who executed it were quite pious. They plainly said that they love death more than the "infidel" loves life, and we should take their word for it.
[–]Flamingmonkey923 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Posting an over simplified image blaming one group of people for an act of violence is not 'just as bad' as flying planes into buildings.
[–]aviationfreak01 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
So all religious people fly airplanes into buildings?
[–]Flamingmonkey923 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Nope. You're right. If there are any decent people in a group then that group should be 100% free of criticism.
Where exactly did you get that from? I said nothing of that sort.
[–]gootenbog 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
With all my attempts, I couldn't have worded this better. I thank you with an upvote.
[–]iam4real 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Judging from your history...you are not frequently posting on r/atheism. An expert you are not. Maybe on gaming or technology.
I call bullshit.
I am an atheist, and proud of it; in fact, I'd even go so far as to say that I am an anti-theist. I dislike organized religion, more-so the negative things that come about because of it. I posted in /r/atheism for the first few weeks of my tenure on reddit, I soon stopped because I grew tired of associating with militant-atheist types. I spent some time in that phase, myself, but made a number of realizations, namely that when many atheists gather together, especially young, inexperienced types that have just recently settled on a new belief system, atheism can quickly turn into a religion itself. I try to be a little bit more tactful with my beliefs.
Just look at the tactics these people use and compare and contrast them to the type of image we're discussing now.
Why should we resort to shock value when simple logic and clear reasoning could do the job more effectively? This type of image is more likely to turn someone away from atheism rather than invite them in. It is incendiary and not completely accurate.
It makes him more credible in my opinion.
[–]PoundnColons -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
I spent an hour trying to write up something like this before scrolling down, seeing this and realizing I could never put it so well. you have my respect.
[–]Aavagadrro 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
I worked with airplanes and was on deployment in Kuwait that day. I thought it was a movie or some shit. Funny thing, I didnt hear any Kuwaitis rejoicing over it, you know since we saved their ass ten years before. I just knew we would end up in a war that would last a long time and accomplish nothing, then W got up there and said he would start a Crusade. I was quite embarrassed of his stupid ass when he said that.
Saved their ass from someone we armed.
[–]Aavagadrro 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Iraq had more Russian stuff than our stuff, and they were supposed to fight the Iranians, not the Kuwaitis, silly Iraqis. We helped the Shah stay in power in Iran despite being a dictator when a democratic overthrow was attempted. I dont think there is a country in the region that hasnt bought arms from us and Russia.
The one that really bugs me is when Nixon told Castro to pound sand instead of letting him talk to Kennedy. Kruschev was willing to talk to Fidel. We did the same thing with Ho Chi Minh, told him piss off when he used our Revolutionary War tactics to fuck up the French, and then US.
Our politicians can fuck up a wet dream.
[–]solitaryman098 15 points16 points17 points 1 year ago
How many times is this quote/saying going to be on r/atheism? I feel like I see it every 3 days.
[–]blackpandemic 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
And I honestly think it gives a bad name to /r/Atheism.
[–]DanCorb 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
How?
[–]blackpandemic 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
For me, seeing things like this as an Atheist reads as "Hey we're atheists (particularly since it's on the subreddit) and we think ALL religions like to fly planes into buildings."
The image doesn't say (alluding to other posts here) science built the atomic bomb and religious extremists blow up cars. It over generalizes both areas into an argument that is SCIENCE GOOD RELIGION BAD which to me isn't as black and white as the image is making it.
[–]burgerboy426 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Downvoted for asking a question. I feel like that is worse that any amount of re-posted quotes or images.
[–]Jnet9102 -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Downvoted for deciding people can't ask perfectly legitimate questions.
than
FTFY
[–]PoundnColons -6 points-5 points-4 points 1 year ago
It's insensitive and frankly kind of bigoted. How do you expect to express change when all you can do is throw hateful stones at the people you are mad at for throwing hateful stones?
[–]mleeeeeee 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
throw hateful stones at the people you are mad at for throwing hateful stones
I don't think we're mad at religions because they post tasteless .pngs on Reddit.
One of many things that give /r/Atheism a bad name.
Did you know that science flies you to the moon, whereas religion flies you into buildings? The more you know!
[–]nugz85 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I think it is more frequent than that.
[–]infinite8 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Well I ought to be seeing it everyday, God dammit!
[–]DanielEatsBooks 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
Science gives you a reason to fly to the moon. Religion gives you a reason to fly into buildings. FTFY
[–]thealmightydru 57 points58 points59 points 1 year ago
American Cold War competitiveness gives you a reason to fly to the moon. American foreign policy gives you a reason to fly into buildings.
American Cold War competitiveness gives you a reason to fly to the moon.
American foreign policy gives you a reason to fly into buildings.
[–]DanielEatsBooks 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
TY.
[–]JoMighty 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
I think that is a more accurate statement.
[–]CantankerousV 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
And then science gives you the means to do whatever you want!
[–]ashraf2403 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this really thank you
Thank you for a statement more in consistence with research to the origin of the conflict.
A more scientifically sound statement, so to say.
[–]OlKingCole 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Can we please forgo these pointless posts at least until it's actually 9/11/11?
[–]inurfaec 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Did anyone else see the top image a cruise missile flying in to the Islamic crescent?
[–]0007000 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I can not still understand why you compare science with religion. It's like comparing oranges with chairs. Can someone explain me how come the "opposite" of the religion is science?
[–]DGCA 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Chilean here. Islam was not the cause of 9/11, it was US (and others) politics provoking a region. 9/11/73.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
As a U.S. Citizen, I feel the need to apologize for my country. We always hold up 9/11 as a world changing event, when many countries experience worse tragedies everyday, often at our hands. As bad as it was, 9/11 could have been much worse. Thousands more could have been killed, our democratically elected president could have been assassinated, a foreign power could have aided a military dictator take power ushering in an era of fear and torture. And that is exactly what we did to your country.
[–]Buck-Nasty 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
The first and forgotten 9/11. RIP Allende.
Blaming the US for the attacks isn't only incredibly ignorant and naive, but it's capitulation at its worst. That's equivalent to laying the blame on a rape victim due to how she was dressed.
Heading back to the Treaty of Tripoli, the US was attacked simply for not being a Muslim theocracy, and this was when we were barely even a country and had absolutely no dealings in the middle east.
[–]DGCA 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Not, it's like a guy went around bullying people, someone told him "psst, I heard some dude's gonna kick you in the nuts if you keep it up," the bully didn't listen, then someone kicked him in the nuts.
To think that religion is the one and only reason 9/11 happened is insane.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Except 9/11 didn't occur because of U.S. religious beliefs. It happened due to U.S. foreign policy. Specifically:
Our troops in the middle east.
Our support for Israel.
Our economic sanctions on Iraq.
Not saying this justifies the attacks, but this is why they occurred. If the U.S. had not done those things the attacks would not have happened.
[–]I_am_anonymous 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Troops stationed in the middle east is a problem for Osama bin Asshole because it offends his religious sensibilities. The infidel is too close to Mecca.
Israel is supported in part to protect them from religious discrimination from their neighbors, the Muslims.
His poor Muslim brothers are suffering because of the sanctions. If they were really interested in ending the sanctions, they would have attacked Saddam and established a democratic government. The sanctions would have ended (c.f. Libya currently). Attacking the sanctioner doesn't cure the underlying problem (which Osama apparently tolerated). This is the least religious reason given, but it also doesn't strike me as particularly genuine.
All of Osama's articulated reasons are still religiouly derived. Ergo, the attacks were religious. On top of that, how the attacks address these issues is far from clear. No person could expect any of those three "problems" to change as a result of the attacks.
One theory I saw for the motivation of the attacks was to try to provoke an all out war between the faiths leading to eventual victory by the Muslims and rule under a new caliphate. You can at least see a potential causal connection between terrorist attacks and a war between the faiths. That reason would certainly be religious.
I'm not saying that religion is irrelevant, but it is a response to specific U.S. policies. These attacks didn't occur simply because terrorists hate our freedoms or hate western values or oppose secularization, but because of specific policies of the United States.
It's actually a problem for many Muslims as they view the entire Arabian Peninsula as their homeland. Having occupying troops with other values and culture is going to cause tension and hatred. Just imagine what would happen if there were a Chinese Military base on U.S. soil.
Only someone ignorant of history could make that claim. Israel repeatedly violates UN Security Counsel Resolution 242 along with other international laws, just as the United States does.
Attacking Saddam
Would not have been a good move. For one thing the Iraqi people were dependent on Saddam due in large part to the sanctions. Prior to the sanctions, there was a strong opposition to Saddam in Iraq, but the sanctions damaged the economy to the point that they civilian population depended on the corrupt government for aid. Al Qaeda did not have the resources to overthrow Saddam and provide aid to the civilian population. Furthermore, it is unlikely that a government established with the aid of Al Qaeda would be recognized by the U.S. and the sanctions would likely continue.
Osama himself referred to the U.S. forces in Saudi as "USA Crusader military forces." To my atheist ear, that sounds like a religious beef. He did not refer to them as oil thieving nor corrupt dictator supporting nor poverty maintaining. There are legitimate reasons for Saudis to hate America, but they aren't going to be resolved via terrorism. The amount of wealth we are stealing is too great for us to be dissuaded by terrorists.
I don't think characterizing the American military forces in Saudi as "occupying" is accurate. Our forces in Iraq are occupying forces. The ones in Saudi are there at the rulers invitation. Sure, they might be propping the government up to some extent, but I doubt the U.S. would interfere if the Tunisia, Egyptian, and Libyan revolution spread to Saudi. We might take action to maintain the flow of oil, but we don't have much love for the Saudi royal family. I also doubt the Kuwaitis minded those "occupying" forces in the early 90s.
Israel repeatedly violates UN Security Counsel Resolution 242 along with other international laws, just as the United States does.
I don't care what Israel and the United States have done. If the Muslims had the power to do so, they would expel the Jews. Israel is never going away completely, so the Muslims are going to have to eventually accept them. The religious basis for this conflict is inherent. The religious Jews think the land belongs to them because God says so. The Muslims think the same thing. As long as religious thought persists, I don't foresee an end to this conflict. My belief is that if it weren't for the Nazis, the Israelis would have already exterminated the Palestinians. Their response to irrational terrorist attacks has been pretty reasonable (how else are you going to stem the tide of suicide bombers? Complete capitulation?). That said, they need to fucking stop with the settlement expansions. They need to improve the flow of aid and stop provoking more hostility. Frankly, the two sides deserve each other. I personally would sell bigger and bigger arms to both sides. If you removed religion from the equation, they could all just be neighbors.
On the attack Saddam point, I was more suggesting that Al Qaeda help the Iraqis overthrow him. Blaming the U.S. for sanctioning Iraq, is like blaming the doctor for telling you that you have cancer. If you tolerate leadership that causes sanctions that make your life miserable, then you pretty much deserve your lot. The Americans rebelled against the British in 1776 for a hell of a lot less.
[–]Mrleibniz 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Science flies to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
[–]RobBaal 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
You're really going to tell me science created the atomic bomb?
[–]darkangelx 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
If by science you mean, military people took scientific work and perverted it into a weapon, and used it, then sure.
But show me the SCIENTIST that dropped the bomb, not that thought it up.
[–]terabyte06 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I'm pretty sure this happened on 9/11/01, mainly since 9/11/11 hasn't even occurred yet.
[–]Lethario 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
It really bothers me when the attacks on September 11th are used as a talking point. I'm sorry, but it makes me really angry, no matter what point you are trying to prove. It bothered me when it was used to justify wars, it bothered me when it was used to justify the reduction of our civil liberties, and it bothers me when you use it as an attack against religion.
[–]Jnet9102 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
Yes, because something the majority of people see as a religious attack on people who believe differently than them is a poor example of how violent religion is.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
That's not why September 11th occurred. Bin Laden has spelled out his reasoning quite clearly. The attacks were in response to U.S. foreign policy. Specifically:
Troops stationed in the Middle East, specifically Saudi Arabia.
Our funding and support of Israel.
[–]I_am_anonymous -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Yes, but if not for their religion, we never would have been there in the first place. The world would work completely differently. We could help each other out, love our neighbors, and live in peace, all while trying to push ourselves forward in the understanding of who we are and how everything works.
Naturally, bickering and ego wars would still exist, but in much different ways.
I also really doubt that anyone who doesn't believe in an afterlife would drive a plane into a tower for their beliefs.
We could help each other out, love our neighbors, and live in peace, all while trying to push ourselves forward in the understanding of who we are and how everything works.
Ha! Are you really that naive? Do you have any knowledge of history? At all? I guess I'd need evidence for this supposed utopia, as it stands I'm just going to label you delusional.
Prior to the war in Iraq, the group with the largest number of suicide attacks was the LTTE, a Marxist-Leninist organization. Study up on the facts.
[–]Lethario 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
If the attacks were put into the correct historical context, then it may be appropriate to use them to demonstrate the dangers of fundamentalism. The problem is that this post (which is re posted every month or so) is petty and childish. A tragedy as horrendous as the attacks on september eleventh should not be used as a petty, snarky comment against all religions. It is childish and offensive.
It's not a petty, snarky comment. This post was not intended to be a joke, at least when Richard Dawkins said it, it was not a joke(I can't speak for the OP, I don't know him). It was saying that religion does things that kill people. If they ran into a tower that had no one in it, and only the guy who stole a plane died, it would be funny. But, over 3,000 people died. So, it isn't funny. It's fucking scary. And whether it was politics or not that was the overall cause, that guy wouldn't have killed himself to do it if it weren't for the Muslim religion.
He wouldn't have had a plane to fly if it weren't for science. It is a dumb fucking comment. Evil people do evil things, end of story.
[–]mleeeeeee 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Should history be ignored? Should it go unexamined?
If not, then it shouldn't bother you when people use September 11th as an example to illustrate their points.
Of course history shouldn't be ignored, but the way it is being used here is a cheap and petty attack against all religious groups. That is not right. We should remember the attacks, but we shouldn't use them as an excuse for our own prejudices.
[–]mavriksfan11 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Seriously. I don't use the Holocaust to belittle Germans.
[–]burgerboy426 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Being German is not a dogmatic belief system. Being a Nazi is, and being a radically fundamental Muslim terrorist is.
[–]mavriksfan11 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Okay...I can see your point there. But religion is much more overarching than the quite restrictive group of radically fundamental Muslim terrorist.
[–]spiritusmundi1 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Hello godwin!
Thanks for that. Almost everyone brings it up when I say I work in Nuremberg.
[–]Jonmad17 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Attacking a particular religion isn't the same as attacking an ethnic group, and the people who equate the two are part of the problem.
[–]DontGoThereWithMe 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Race or nationality is not the problem as the OP points out...religion is the problem. Apples and oranges.
Oh by the way Hitler twisted the cross to manipulate religion for his sadistic ends and attacked Jews for their religion. See how off you are on this?
[–]zadreth 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Correction: Science inspires you to fly to the moon.
Religion inspires you to fly into buildings.
[–]michaelco 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
And again to all the 'troofers' .....I am curious as to why so many people seem to think 9/11 was an American Government conspiracy but accept that other events were jihad mass murders. Why was 9/11 a conspiracy but Bali 1 and 2, London 1 and 2, Glasgow, Beslan, shoe bombers, Madrid, Jakarta (several times) etc etc etc including previous bombing of the WTC and the many failed attacks on unbelievers were NOT a conspiracy. Is it just attacks on America that must be a conspiracy?
[–]heyheymymy2011 -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
WTC 7. Y u no like science?
[–]michaelco 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
conspiracy theories are not science ! especially the debunked ones like troofers, antivaccination autism links and inteligunt desine. Again ....my question remains why would anyone single out this particular islamic mass murder as the only one that was a conspiracy....... and heyheymymy2011.......anomaly hunting is not an explanation
You are right, conspiracy theories are not science. Although, the good ones are based on science.
[–]michaelco 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Ok I will ask..... whats a "good conspiracy theory"?
[–]sulta 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
What happens on the ninth of November?
[–]squigs 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
No,no. It's the 11th November, 9AD.
[–]fish_tacos -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
9/11/11
not
11/9/11
Home-schooled Christian logic?
[–]Jnet9102 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Asshole, different countries do it differently.
[–]fish_tacos 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I do it from behind...why how do you do it?
[–]sulta 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yes. 9/11. The ninth of November.
[–]DanielEatsBooks 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
In America its mm/dd/yyyy.
[–]sulta 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
That's stupid. How does that make any sense?
[–]DanielEatsBooks 15 points16 points17 points 1 year ago
Make sense? Dude, we dont even use the metric system. What do you want from us??
[–]MonkeyFit 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
It's because here we write it in numerical form like we pronounce it. We don't say the ninth of November. We say November ninth. I'm gonna chalk it up to laziness as it's fewer syllables to say it the American way.
[–]mleeeeeee 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Drive on the right side of the road? That's stupid! How does that make any sense?
It probably makes sense because the majority of reddit's traffic is America, and it's what they've seen their entire lives.
You know, in the same way that Christianity totally makes sense. Or, uh, Islam, or any other religion. Though, to be fair, the month/day/year format is the only way Americans can clearly communicate with each other. Using the language that's been agreed upon by your culture generally makes things easier.
[–]132sixty 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Both were conspiracies anyhow.
[–]hzg 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
War profiteering flies you into buildings.
[–]shaggyzon4 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Haven't. Forgotten. (Wish I could, but you fuckers insist on talking about this shit ALL OF THE FUCKING TIME!)
[–]PoundnColons 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I lol'd so hard because at first I thought this would be some sad heartfelt post.
[–]chbrules 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Religion is just working out its theories on mathematics. Give them some time. The Wright Brothers didn't land on Mars the first time they tried to fly.
[–]Unarmed_Mephisto 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Dr. Avalos did a lecture today on the problem of religion and violence for the 10 year anniversary of 9/11. It was pretty good.
[–]SlotCarSteve 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars.
[–]squigs 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yes. erm.. Hooray for Nazi rocket scientists.
And boo to those fanatical religious people like Copernicus and Newton who did nothing to help.
[–]SnowTeeth 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
This is going on a t-shirt pronto.
[–]wwfmike 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Say, that rocket looks like a giant
[–]prowhite-man 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Quote from Werner Von Braun, the man who is responsible for the moon missions, on why he chose to join the Americans after WWII:
"We knew that we had created a new means of warfare, and the question as to what nation, to what victorious nation we were willing to entrust this brainchild of ours was a moral decision more than anything else. We wanted to see the world spared another conflict such as Germany had just been through, and we felt that only by surrendering such a weapon to people who are guided by the Bible could such an assurance to the world be best secured.”
[–]Sequoiathrone 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
The silence flew us to the moon ;)
[–]jenkemlife 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I've never been to the moon. I've been to a lot of buildings...
[–]GaspodetheWonderD 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Should it not be oil sends you into buildings? OOOOOOOO
[–]William_Faulkner 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
"Manichaeans who see two Rockets, good and evil, who speak together in the sacred idio-lalia of the Primal Twins (some say their names are Enzian and Blicero) of a good Rocket to take us to the stars, an evil Rocket for the World’s suicide, the two perpetually in struggle." -- Gravity's Rainbow
this comment thread is a clusterfuck of confusion
[–]BeastWriter 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT WORKS
[–]glitterbones 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
UH. WHAT.
[–]aBIOgene515 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Dear god, please grant me the strength required to NOT post this on FB and troll the everlivingshit out of my fundie family who is mostly military.
[–]infinitree 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
The main point is that those who committed the terrible act on 9/11 were acting in the most extreme faith of their religion. There may be billions on the planet who wouldn't take their religion literal enough to commit acts such as this, but if you turn the "Faith and Adherence" meter to eleven, this is the type of thing that happens. The majority of people who are "religious" are kept from doing heinous things such as this because they are using reason. The bible says to stone adulterers. Why aren't more Christians stoning adulterers? Their reason is stronger than their faith. The contrast to the extreme of religion is the extreme of reason, which brings us all of the hope and wonder that only science can deliver.
[–]learningphotoshop 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Science gave them the plane to fly into the building. As well as the atomic bomb, guns, and about every other device we have used to kill each other.
[–]cybermystic -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
DAE see the Islamic Star and Crescent moon in the top image?
[–]fiddlerofftheroof 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Right...that is not a star of David.
[–]k_u_m_b_a_y_a -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
No one listens to me.
[–]imnotokurnotokitsok 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
it's ok
Indeed they don't.
Without science such planes wouldn't exist.
Without science we would have neither the atom nor the hydrogen bomb. Without science ICBMs wouldn't exist. Without science most military technology wouldn't exist at all. It's nice to act like science is this all-rational great thing, but science lacks ethics. Now obviously ethics don't have to come from religion, and everyone's ethics are different. But some level of ethics is needed in science or we'd be making horribly disfigured, suffering human clones.
[–]blackbright 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
This looks as lame as those right wing fundie bumper stickers to me. It's just cheap and tacky.
[–]CyberAlchemy 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Science builds buildings [societal advancement] that religious fanatics crash into while they howl at the moon.
[–]ifuonlyknew 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Swoosh!
[–]TwelveOunceProphet 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Drinking moonshine causes airline pilots to try and fly to the moon while crashing into buildings. Don't drink and fly.
[–]B_For_Bandana 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Nitpick: The rocket appears to be flying toward the missing part of a crescent moon. Actually if you land there you will fall into the moon and never be heard from again, which is why the Apollo missions were always careful to land on the part that was still there.
If you're going to cheer science, make sure you get it right!
[–]Darkblitz9 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Here's another one:
Science kills diseases, Religion kills races.
It needs work..
[–]dispellado 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Couldn't folks just say "Oh with science you just drop atomic bombs with religion you do charity" or some crap mirroring this post? While I have no love for religion this image is not the best way of approaching the situation.
[–]Majeeder -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Last time I checked, All three religions forbids innocent killing..
[–]MythicalLeopard 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Last time I checked that didn't stop them.
[–]Jonmad17 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
According to the Quran infidels aren't innocent. Some see all Westerners as infidels...
And tell that to the dozens of innocent girls stoned to death monthly all for the crime of being alone with a man or showing too much skin. Or the girls who are stoned for the "crime" of being raped. All of this dictated by the Quran.
Last time I checked, there are more than three religions.
[–]Sarkos 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
You probably haven't read the Quran.
Sura 2:191
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
Sura 9:5
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[–]WilliamHTaft -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
I have never seen this quote before on r/atheism. Thank you. I'll be sure to copy this onto my Facebook status.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Imagine no religion.. I wonder if you can..
I see atheists never grow tired of using tragedies to attack religion.
[–]Tself 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Yes, tragedies put on by delusional religious thinking. Do you expect us to just shut up about it until it happens again and again?
[–]remember2breathe -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago
Mind-blown by noticing the towers look like an 11. So I'll just leave this here.
Wow, and 9+11 = 20... There are two digits in 20... AND THERE WERE TWO TOWERS.
MIND DUALLY BLOWN.
He had a good point...wtf are you becoming all Oliver Stone, bro?
[–]shuddleston919 -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
Aaahhh... progressives...
excellent observation here. please have my upboat /
[–]EtherealDragon -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
How did /r/Atheism get back on my frontpage?!
[–]Jnet9102 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
How did it leave in the first place?? That's the question.
[–]EtherealDragon 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Simple, it had no value. Only subreddits of value exist on my frontpage. Like yours, and every other user's. Keep an open mind and respect people's viewpoints regardless of how many people agree with you.
[–]RedonYellow -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 year ago
If you seriously think that a religious freak hijacked a plan and went into the towers causing it to implode itself on its own foundation you must be just as insane.
[–]shuddleston919 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Because why?
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago*
I can't ever forget...because they fucking bring it up every year.
You shouldn't forget.
You should put that on a flag/eagle themed bumper-sticker. Thankfully I have the TSA, Patriot Act, Iraq War and shitty patriotic songs to remind me of 911.
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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