this post was submitted on
112 points (61% like it)
307 up votes 195 down votes

atheism

subscribe1,149,717 readers

1,167 users here now


Help Atheist Organizations!

The Secular Student Alliance, Camp Quest, and Foundation Beyond Belief were all nominated for the Chase Community Giving program, which awards grants based on the votes of the public. Everyone gets 2 votes on Facebook, plus an additional one if they share a CCG page. The links for them are:

SSA | CQ | FBB

Voting runs from September 6-19


Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here. Please read our FAQ.

Please link directly to any images or use imgur to avoid being flagged as blogspam

New posts: New Rising
Self posts: New Relevant
Non-image posts: New Relevant

Recommended reading and viewing

Thank you notes


Related Subreddits <--the big list

GodlessWomen YoungAtheists AtheistParents
BlackAtheism AtheistGems DebateAnAtheist
skeptic agnostic freethought
antitheism humanism Hitchens
a6theism10 tfbd AdviceAtheists

Events
10/5-6 NAPCON2012 - Boston
08/11 Regional Conference - St. Paul MN
Giving
DWB/MSF fundraiser
Kiva lending team
FBB's Appeal to Freethinkers to Fight Cancer
Camp Quest
Ex* Groups
ex-Muslim ex-Catholic ex-Mormon
ex-JW ex-Jew ex-SistersinZion
ex-Bahai ex-Christian ex-Adventist
Assistance
Coming Out
Atheist Havens
Start an Atheist Club at Your School

Chat: #reddit-atheism on irc.freenode.net

Watch: #/r/atheism on reddit.tv

Read The FAQ


Submit Rage Comic

Submit Facebook Chat

Submit Meme

Submit Something Else

a community for

reddit is a source for what's new and popular online. vote on links that you like or dislike and help decide what's popular, or submit your own! learn more ›

all 62 comments

[–]Crewiz 15 points16 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Not to be hating but i think that there would still be the same amount of war and hatred even without religion, people will just find other ways to do crazy shit like this.

[–]Kennian 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

yea, but then it moves from, "We need that and god said so" to "Fuck those guys, i want their shit" the second option is a bit harder to sell, makes you look like an asshole

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Exactly the point of "Go God Go" in South Park. United Atheist Alliance at war with the Unified Atheist League.

[–]wilywampa 9 points10 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Bullshit. This is akin to saying we shouldn't try to find a cure for cancer because people will die of other diseases anyway.

[–]Syntaximus 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I respectfully disagree. And I don't mean that ironically. In-group/out-group mentality is hard wired into most humans' brains. Religion is certainly a means for violent actions but we must be honest with ourselves and agree that it's not the primary cause. Even atheists such as myself committed terrible crimes against humanity using some other means than religion.

[–]wilywampa 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

If you read my other comment, I do agree that other ideologies will still lead to conflict. I just think that getting rid of one cause of ideological conflict will reduce the overall amount of it. The comment I replied to said there would be "the same amount of war and hatred" even if we got rid of one common cause.

[–]Syntaximus 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

So you will agree that you think religion is a cause of violence/mayhem but not a means per se?

[–]wilywampa 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I wasn't differentiating between cause and means. I don't see how religion could be a means of violence. Ideas don't directly hurt people, but they definitely motivate conflict.

[–]Crewiz 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

That's not what i'm saying, what my point was that humans always seem to find other ways to fuck eachother up when one way dissapears, and that i think that the same would happen without religion. I never stated that we should let religious fundemantalists keep doing the crazy shit they do because of it.

[–]Nixon74 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

It kind of is what you're saying. Especially in the past a lot of murders and wars were caused by religion, such as the spanish inquisition, the crusades and even the holocaust.

The elitism and classicism that religion creates accounts for a lot of pain and suffering for the average people.

[–]tabovilla -2 points-1 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

your analogy is way off

[–]wilywampa 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Convincing argument, that. In the same way there are many illnesses that can kill people, there are many ideologies that can lead to conflict. Getting rid of an illness or irrational ideology won't eliminate all death or conflict, but it will alleviate some.

[–]Highly-Sammable 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I agree that there would still be war and tragedy, but I think it's less about religion and more about unfounded and unreasonable faith. Whether it's people thinking their god is right or people believing their race is right, this will always cause conflict if people make judgements like this without evidence.

[–]iwidiwin 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

That's fine there would still be wars and hatred. As long as it's not because of an imaginary guy who lives in the clouds and is about real shit happening I could deal with it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Do you believe there is any war or hatred that is purely religious? If so we have a hard time explaining people who stop hating homosexuals when they lose their religion.

[–]AldieN 3 points4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Yes, but the Twin Towers could possibly still be standing, and think about it. Most of the conflict throughout history has been about religion, The crusades, Muslims/Jews fighting over Israel/Palestine, or even the holocaust if you look at it that way.

[–]oreography 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Religion is the greatest scapegoat for mans hatred

[–]drinkonlyscotch 1 point2 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

There's some truth to that. But I also think people tend to be more violent when they're brought up in system of beliefs that promotes fear, xenophobia, and sexual repression as virtues...not to mention a general rejection of rational thought.

It's pretty obvious, for example, why so many "celibate" clergyman tend get-off by assaulting children. All that self-loathing and sexual denial isn't just incompetent, but unhealthy. Sex is a natural stress reliever as evidenced by the endorphins our brains spit out when we're getting-it-on (or fapping, as the case may be).

All those hormones, pheromones, and emotions like love and lust are nothing, if not evolutionary mechanisms that promote the health and proliferation of ourselves, our societies, and our species.

Consider the victims of the clergy's worldwide assault on children and how the trauma and stress they experienced will alter the their ability to maintain normal, healthy sexual relationships for the rest of their fertile lives. Religion isn't just a lame lifestyle choice. It's an evolutionary pathogen, hellbent on suppressing social and scientific progress.

"wut about teh STDs", they will say. Bullshit! Through the "miracles" of science and math, we have developed technology to greatly reduce the risks involved with the frequent sexual release we all crave. From vaccines and free, anonymous, mail-in STD screenings to HD porn and dishwasher-safe butt-plugs, we have it all. And yet the religious shun science, the one thing that actually has a chance to save their stupid asses. They openly mock our most well-supported ideas about man, nature, and the universe. They question fossils, for fuck's sake. And by the way, they also represent more than their fair share of us in both political parties and wield tremendous influence over the private and public sector alike.

Maybe they're right about one thing: maybe we all should feel afraid. But as it turns out, they're the ones posing the biggest threat to our survival.

[–]Mattpointgrat 5 points6 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Ah, but you see, if it were not for religion, the Twin Towers would not be standing to begin with.

The Treaty of Westminster (the treaty that transferred New York and the surrounding province to the British from the Dutch) was signed as a result of the Third Anglo-Dutch War. This war ended because the English parliament believed that the English king wanted to convert the country back to Roman Catholicism and pressured him to end it.

Were it not for religion, the Dutch would still be in control of New York and the surrounding area, thus changing the entire subsequent history of the city. The World Trade Center, being built in the first place due to several variables from New York's past that would not have happened in this situation, would have never existed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Were it not for religion, the Dutch would still be in control of New York and the surrounding area

...in which case pot would be legal so we come back to 'Imagine no religion'.

[–]Mattpointgrat 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

But marijuana was first popularized by the Assyrians, who used it in religious ceremonies.

We need to go deeper.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You picked three wars out of thousands.

There were more wars fought over the sucession of kings than there were about religion.

[–]Crewiz 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I totally agree it would probably still be standing, but the thing with us humans is that we naturally want to take more for ourselves, and if we didn't have religion it would probably be some equally stupid shit like your hair is black and mine is brown.

Also i think the holocaust wasn't that much about religion, but that's another conversation to have ;).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

If religion didn't exist, I'd imagine we'd have better education in one way. We'd be able to teach openly, to children from a young age, to think critically and rationally. To not fall for dogmatic ideologies (communism, Nazism... Religion etc). Above all, to not believe something just because they are told it. To think for themselves, basically.

I know of course there would still be war and suffering, but surely removing any cause of war is better than leaving it just because others may exist.

[–]Nutrilait 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You have no way of knowing that. If religion didn't exist, some other thing might have, and maybe, that would have been even worst. There's no way to know. I'd rather not theorize about what COULD have been and ask myself what CAN I do to make it better, now.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I never claimed to have my "better education" scenario as knowledge. If you took my post to mean that, then I do apologise for not being clear about it. This is a thread based on a hypothetical situation, so of course I'm going to be talking about hypothetical possibilities. That's the beauty of having an imagination - being able to imagine all sorts of scenarios.

[–]AldieN 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Agreed.

[–]Br0ski 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Sorry for posting an opinion that is contrary to most people's (people being user's or r/atheism) opinions, but things would be worse without religion. I'm an atheist/agnostic, myself, but I think religion keeps most people from raping and pillaging, no matter how ridiculous and pedantic it is. For most theists, the only thing keeping them from being terrible people is religion. You may say "but I'm atheist and I'm not doing any of those things," but atheists are different from normal people. Think of atheism as some sort of exclusive club. The only people allowed into the club are the people brave enough and smart enough to challenge the idea of "God" and thinking they are risking eternal torture and misery. Because of this, most atheists are somewhat knowledgeable and knowledgeable people are usually less violent, whereas, while theists have knowledgeable people as well, any dumb brute can be a theist. The main thing that governs the unintelligent people is the scare-tactic of hell, and without it they would feel no responsibility. Think of how many religious people you know who don't know any philosophy/morality other than their religion's.

[–]Fullerer 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

No society has ever suffered from being too reasonable.

(Sam Harris)

[–]TheIvoryNun 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

people will just find other ways to do crazy shit like this

True, humans need little excuse to fuck things up for their own greed. The problem with religion is that it's massively based on emotionally rooted faith and indoctrination. That is how it easily bends reality, facts and morality to suit itself without bating an eye and with complete entitlement. Believers hold it up on the highest Ideal pedestal possible and allow no challenge. How can you reason with what is so emotionally charged in people's mind as the ultimate truth? No amount of facts will dissuade a believer that is content in their delusion and afraid of it's master's power.

You will also noticed that the last barrier a person who's losing their faith encounters is "what if I'm wrong?". It basically boils down to our natural fear of the unknown and that is something that will never go away unless you educate yourself, question everything around you and try to understand how the world really works with the help of science - Religion doesn't want you to do that and I honestly believe it's holding back humanity in the worst way.

So no, there is no more insidious cause than Religion.

[–]AldieN 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Citing Source: http://on.fb.me/rcDU53

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I want a t-shirt with this, but instead of "religion" it says "gingers"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I'm all for no religion, but with regard to the Twin Towers, would it not be more accurate to say something along the lines of 'Imagine if the US didn't support Israel'?

[–]Jackle13 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I agree that the world would be better without religion, but I downvoted this for two reasons.

  1. Who hasn't seen this picture?

  2. It seems to imply that religion was the only factor in the terrorist attacks. While it certainly played a part, it isn't nearly as simple as "their god told them to do it".

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I would prefer: ""Imagine governments weren't fucked p."

[–]tabovilla 3 points4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

That statement is heavily inaccurate, sorry but I don't support it.

Hate is your real enemy, hate and ignorance.

[–][deleted] ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

[deleted]

[–]Crewiz 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Did you personally know every person in that building? Are you really this ignorant?

[–]Kurnkuku 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Ok I was wrong there with my anti-capitalist statements, they were not deserved in this thread, so I have edited it. Most people were just going about their lives and I was wrong to propose otherwise.

I will not however glorify the twin towers, or the attacks on them.

[–]Brobeast -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

So, whats your point then? Do you feel like 9/11 should have happened? Do you feel that it wasn't an atrocity dealt by the hands of religion?

[–]mjohniii 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

This made me sad :( Good post though.

[–]douglasr007 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

If we imagined no religion, wouldn't there be no America?

[–]SongGarde 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

More precisely, there wouldn't be a -need- for an America. The revolution wouldn't have happened, because nonsensical and irrational ideas wouldn't be so commonplace.

It is only in the shadow of religion that the oppression during those times can be justified.

[–]Fhwqhgads 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I upvote this every time.

[–]iamfromreallife 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Imagine no airplanes, lol.

[–]dinocaucus 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Naive, tasteless, and ill-considered. A Christian using the same sort of knee-jerk logic with a line like "imagine a world without muslims" would have just as much - that is, as little - merit in their words.

Let the religious keep the monopoly on reactionary bullshit, please.

[–]theDogsBollux -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Amazing. Blame 9/11 on the Islamic faith. Your ignorance is absolutely phenomenal. Terrorists follow a different set of rules, and take an extreme interpretation of the Koran.

By your logic, we can say all Christians are murderers and racists, just because the KKK follow the Christian faith.

Religion in itself is not a bad thing. People want to have faith in something, and if it makes them live their lives doing good works, let them have it. It is the people that give a religion a bad name. There are terrible Christians that live to convert people and believe they can get to heaven just by going to church. There are terrible Muslims that believe they have a higher calling to kill infidels.

Lets not make Atheists seem like bad people as well by spewing ignorance.

[–]ketchupacket 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Do we really need one of these every week?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Religion is just another excuse to fight wars. Centuries ago, it used to go like this. Tell people their God is in dire need of assistance, martyrs come pouring in!

[–]ManateeFantasy 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Oh look, people still think that 9/11 was caused by religion. I love how when you supply mountains of proof that 9/11 was an inside job, people can just dismiss it by calling it a "conspiracy". Please, provide proof that it wasn't an inside job, other than basing shit on your opinions and the fact that a plane was present.

[–]inapropriatruningjok 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

GO BACK TO AFRICA, YOKO ONO!

[–]AldieN -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

What?

[–]the_ghost_train 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

He's "trolling", the act of using factual evidence to bring forth a reasonable yet generally unexplored ideology.

[–]Dr_Adopted -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Am I a bad person for laughing at this?

[–]wahwahwildcat 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

well, Yeah. I mean... 3000 American deaths for 'allah' is pretty fucked up.

and did you know the first firefighter that day died from a jumper?

What's the punchline?

[–]dogebial -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

People would still fuck shit up and want power regardless of whether religion exists or not

[–]Flamingmonkey923 -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

We cured smallpox, but people still die of disease regardless. Guess it was a waste of time. All progress is meaningless.

[–]octafed -3 points-2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You mean "Imagine ONE religion", right ?

Like the Lennon song?

[–]SuperDayv 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I don't get it?

[–]octafed 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

No. It seems irony is lost here.

[–]SuperDayv 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Can you explain it?

[–]octafed 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I can try.

The "joke" or what you might call it, I was trying to make was that there should only be one religion, and referencing the song Imagine by John Lennon, by misquoting the song with a known "interpretation" by religious folk.

They change the lyrics from "And no religion too" to "And one religion too".

This is of course false, and actually brings the temperature of the urine in most atheists bladders to a high boil.

The irony comes into play, given the fact that I am an antitheist atheist.

[–]SuperDayv 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Ah gotcha, I didn't know they did that.