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all 124 comments

[–]pi_over_3 96 points97 points ago

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Everytime this gets reposted, it gets pointed out that the Pat Robertson claim is not true.

[–]rockdaboat 39 points40 points ago*

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As long as it makes the average redditor's insides get all tingly, they don't care if it is not true.

[–]khaustic 15 points16 points ago

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Well, the mine part of it is mostly true. No, he didn't own a diamond mine, but he did (does?) own a gold mine with Liberia's ex-president Charles Taylor, who is currently on trial for various war crimes and crimes against humanity. So. Close enough.

[–]dixond 0 points1 point ago

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I believe the word you're looking for is 'truthy'

[–]TheFavorite 1 point2 points ago

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colbert reference?

[–]kwangqengelele 2 points3 points ago

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http://www.reddit.com/user/HanSkywalker/

How much you want to bet it's this guy's new account?

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]PsychopompShade 1 point2 points ago

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What's the point of mindlessly hoarding karma?

[–]redmandan 1 point2 points ago

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whats the point of anything

[–]PsychopompShade 2 points3 points ago

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I'm serious, but as a Buddhist I find our little exchange most amusing. ^

[–]SomeTakezo 2 points3 points ago

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What is the sound of one hand upvoting?

[–]sporkify 1 point2 points ago

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click

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]PsychopompShade 0 points1 point ago

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The scales are lifted from my eyes; thank you!

[–]kwangqengelele 0 points1 point ago

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No comments, only reposts. He's following the exact same pattern as HanSkywalker did. Thing is I think he'll do just as well.

[–]servohahn 0 points1 point ago

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Every time I see someone use the "word" "everytime," I feel the uncontrollable urge to point out that "everytime" is not actually a word.

[–]Kebabbi 10 points11 points ago

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Everytime somebody uses the word "everytime", it gets closer to being a real word.

[–]CyraEm 62 points63 points ago

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Hey now. Pat Robertson does not represent all of us Christians. He's a crazy motherfucker.

[–]neblasian 34 points35 points ago

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Indeed. Also, Christianity don't represent all religions.

[–]CyraEm 0 points1 point ago

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A wholehearted "hell yeah" to you sir.

[–]servohahn 7 points8 points ago*

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Pat Robertson does not represent all of us Christians.

Indeed not. There are a few people who will lump all Christians into the "crazy" category, but I like to hope that those people only make up a small minority of the non-religious population.

I think that the point of this picture is to point out that objective morality is not causally related to one's religiosity. It's hard to pinpoint, exactly, how many people believe that religion makes one more moral, but it certainly appears in popular media with a medium-high frequency and the point is usually made because the person making the claim believes that their religion defines morality. Because this claim is brought up so frequently, atheists feel the need to point out that certain high-profile religious figures act in ways that most would consider to be morally inferior to high-profile non-religious figures.

If the point of the picture was "Atheists are awesome and Christians are assholes," it'd clearly be wrong.

[–]CyraEm 0 points1 point ago

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I agree. My remark was mostly made in jest.

[–]DefaultPlayer 1 point2 points ago

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True, but I think the point of the poster is more to highlight that atheists are not evil. The more I look at it the more the thing about Pat Robertson doesn't belong. They should just put up examples of how atheists can be good (just like everyone else) without comparisons.

[–]trolldango 4 points5 points ago

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Yes, he's crazy enough that he's ignored by most other Christians. Right? Somehow he became the richest evangelical Christian because other Christians disagreed with him.

[–]CyraEm 0 points1 point ago

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I'm not saying he doesn't have a following. A very generous following. but his following does not make up the majority of Christians. The biggest group is actually Catholics, followed by Episcopalians, neither of which give a bucket of farts what Pat Robertson has to say.

[–]slayter 37 points38 points ago

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seriously? post that shit in r/atheism if you want karma so badly.

[–]zimm3rmann 1 point2 points ago

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People get pretty pathetic.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Keisaku 0 points1 point ago

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Ya, because anyone with that much money- Well, I'd surely be pressured. I couldn't sleep at night even. Ya, that's it. I can't sleep.

[–]benmarvin 11 points12 points ago

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JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

The richest man in the world, Carlos Slim Helú is a Christian/Catholic and has donated or spent billions on charity and good causes. Give it a fucking rest. Pat Roberson is a crackpot nobody and does not represent anyone.

[–]MadZane -1 points0 points ago

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After he robbed his entire country in the process of privatizing the banks? How nice of him to give some of that away.

[–]shamecamel 2 points3 points ago

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a true atheist knows that religion has very little to do with who or what you are on the inside.

[–]voxtrot91 14 points15 points ago

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stop reposting stuff

[–]greym84 3 points4 points ago*

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Edit: I was wrong about Buffett and Gates being religious which is why the comment below calls me intellectually dishonest and debunks what I said. I'm not a liar and I'm not an exaggerator, so "intellectually dishonest" might be a stretch, as I think my point still stands. Didn't do my research? Lazy? Dead wrong? Yeah, sorry about all that.

I will however still maintain that to actually sit there and compare the lives on supposed Christians versus non-Christians is rather futile. You bring up Robertson, maybe even the Pope. I'm not going to judge Robertson as a Christian or non-Christian but his financial behavior is anything but Christian. I will admit that many Christians don't heed the countless warnings about money throughout the Bible (though the Bible never condemns wealth). Many Christians are very unlike their Christ (Gandhi paraphrase).

But for every person like Robertson you bring up there's a person like Rick Warren. A Christian multi-millionaire who donates his money to charity and the church and only lives on 10% of his income. Robertson isn't respected by most serious and mature Christians much less by non-Christians. Rick Warren is very respected and even hosted one of the 2008 presidential debates between Obama and McCain.

And we could throw names around all day. There are a lot of very good Christians and a lot of very good non-Christians. There are a lot of very bad Christians (I'm one of them) and lot of very bad non-Christians.

The temptation of wealth to worship money and to put faith in it. The Christian teaching is to turn from faith in money and material, to put it into perspective. To make money, material possessions, and ourselves the servant and the Christian god the master. That's counter-cultural. In fact, if my goal in life was to be rich, I'd very much resent Christianity for telling me that there are more important things in life than myself. I'm not saying that Buffett and Gates haven't done so without Christianity. It seems to be the case and I am genuinely happy for them. At the same time, let's not get too carried away pointing the finger.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points ago

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First of all, Buffet and Gaits are most definitely atheist. When Time asked Gaits if he believed in spirituality or a soul, he said "I don't have any evidence of that, I don't have any evidence of that". When asked about going to church, he replied by saying he can think of better things to do on a Sunday morning.

Buffet has stated in no uncertain terms that he does not believe in Yahweh or any Christian deities or supernatural beings.

YOU are being intellectually dishonest.

[–]phreeck 3 points4 points ago

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Here is Bill's quote in context

What grey said is completely true. Both of them are more agnostic than atheist.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points ago

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I conveyed the context. Gaits said that he doesn't believe in the supernatural and that means "atheist" because deities are the supernatural. Gaits is most certainly an atheist. He might like some of the messages that various religions convey, but that doesn't mean that he believes that their deities exist, because he doesn't and he said as much. Liking religions messages != believing in or being undecided about the existence of their deities.

[–]phreeck 1 point2 points ago

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Not to be a dick but, Gaits?

Point taken but that still doesn't negate grey's idea about religiosity. If he looks positively on messages that are conveyed by a religion(s) then I would think that falls under "religiosity"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I'm typing this on my Android, it's the autocorrect. I don't know how to turn it off. You can be atheist and still appreciate any religions values or traditions. Of course you can, why wouldn't he be able to do that? This is not about his religiosity, this is about his atheism (as in a-atheist, not-theist, not believing in deities, not believing in gods). A-theism is the opposite of theism, where one does believe in the existence of a deity (or a god, in other words). It is is possible to be a-theist and still believe in the supernatural, but based on quotes by Gaits, he does not believe in the supernatural at all, not one bit of it.

Bill Gaits is most certainly atheist.

[–]greym84 0 points1 point ago*

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You make a very valid point. I have edit my post admitting this and amending my original argument accordingly (and actually make an intelligent point this time).

edit: and I don't think we disagree, I just originally got my facts wrong.

[–]switchbackk[!] 9 points10 points ago

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It is very commendable what Buffet and Gates have and are doing but I don't believe religion has anything to do with it. I am not super religious and attend church 3-4 times a year so don't take this as a religious person having a bash. These pictures say to me that to be religious means your mean with money, which isn't true. The guy is a dick, not because of his beliefs but just because he's a dick.

[–]Fauxtella 12 points13 points ago*

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That's the entire point. Atheists are constantly being told that it's impossible to be good without believing in god. Gates and Buffet are atheists but also philanthropists and humanitarians; they illustrate that a lack of belief in god does not automatically make someone an immoral or evil person. Pat Robertson is an evangelical Christian who doesn't do much to help out his fellow human beings; he illustrates that a belief in god does not automatically make someone a good person. The illustration isn't saying all atheists are good or all theists are bad; it's saying that atheism and theism have no bearing on how moral someone is.

[–]dyzlexiK 5 points6 points ago

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As a theist, im constantly being told by atheists that I am an idiot for believing what I do. You should probably just not take a claim by certain members of a group as the opinion of an entire group.

[–]Fauxtella 0 points1 point ago

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I dont think all theists are idiots; I also dont think all theists are fully informed about the other side of the coin. Religion makes life easier, and thats the main reason it exists. Who wants to question the nature of life, death, the universe when we can just sit back and assume that god did it, and that hes taking care of everything for us? I mean, it's definitely a more comforting philosophy, but atheism is a more realistic, honest one.

[–]ninjaDOLEMITE -1 points0 points ago

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you have to admit, believing in god is kind of silly.

[–]cougmerrik -5 points-4 points ago

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You can be "good" without believing in God. There have been good people of all kinds (nobody has a monopoly on good or evil on a micro scale). There were good Nazis. Does it mean anything to be "good" without the concept of God? Not to me, maybe it means something to you.

Pat Robertson actually does have various charities that he is involved with, including Operation Blessing. Saying he doesn't do much to help out other people is a little ignorant. He's a very poor ambassador for Christianity in general, though -- part of the unholy marriage of conservative politics and evangelic Christianity that corrupted both institutions.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett's generosity comes from the same vein of many other ridiculously rich philanthropists such as Rockefeller (who was a Christian), Carnegie (who was not), and Vanderbilt (who was). Really rich people sometimes give a lot of money away - I don't think it has anything to do with being "good" as much as it does guilt and recognition of their own standing. But I guess that's just my opinion.

[–]LiamNeesonAteMyBaby 1 point2 points ago

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Godwinned yourself in the first paragraph. Pat Robertson is incredibly rich and Christian. It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle..

Gates and Buffett are incredibly rich and not Christian. Their giving away money is not to do with being good, but guilt and some sort of social contract.

Are you trolling? What you're saying is completely opposite to reality.

[–]Keisaku -1 points0 points ago

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You're the worst. Right there.

You'll never get it but you'll always attribute another adjective to those reasoning to the positive without your deity as anything but a simple cognizant act of good.

You don't have simple reasoning and should not claim to do so in any intellectual argument- and it shows much jocularity when you do.

[–]Keisaku -4 points-3 points ago

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So, basically, religion is kind of useless?

Because either you say you're religious and do by your God what's right or your a dick by God.

Kind of like being good without God? Or is that somehow different? Is that just a phase, maybe?

Oh, I'm waiting on this one.

[–]idknox 1 point2 points ago

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source on the diamond mines claim?

[–]Matox 4 points5 points ago

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You might have as well posted picture of Stalin and how good he was without God. Because he's as big good representative of Atheism as that person is of Christianity.

I am certainly not saying that you cannot be good without God, because you can, but this picture is just lube for atheist circlejerk.

[–]ninjaDOLEMITE -4 points-3 points ago

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Did Stalin systematically sexually abuse children? Because the largest christian church on earth does.

[–]puntspeedchunk 1 point2 points ago

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Nah, Stalin just fucking killed 'em.

[–]ninjaDOLEMITE -1 points0 points ago

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so we agree that the largest christian church and stalin are both pretty terrible right?

[–]puntspeedchunk 0 points1 point ago

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I can agree to that.

[–]Matox 0 points1 point ago

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No he didn't systematically sexually abuse children, but he did systematically kill people, over 20 million of them to be precise.

It's just that many people in Catholic church are scum and molest children, they deserve all the punishment, but they don't go around preaching and converting others into pedophiles. Don't forget that there are two other major Christian groups, (Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism) who aren't either centralized nor are matter of controversy.

A man will be scum no matter his religious orientation, it's just that some might either use it as an excuse for their actions. I think that it's silly for a church to be centralized, because no person or institution should have impact on one's beliefs.

[–]ninjaDOLEMITE 0 points1 point ago

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"A man will be scum no matter his religious orientation, it's just that some might either use it as an excuse for their actions. I think that it's silly for a church to be centralized, because no person or institution should have impact on one's beliefs."

Sorry, I just don't believe that. Been to too many churches, gotten to know way too many religious people.

As I've gotten older I've come to realize that there's only a few kinds of people at church: Scam artists, marks, and children.

[–]ConundrumSteve 4 points5 points ago

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So just because one super rich crazed Christian is a horrible person then that means every other Christian is as well? Thanks for clearing that up Reddit. Why don't we also say that all homosexuals are serial killers and rapists because of Jeffrey Dahmer.

[–]Skulder -3 points-2 points ago

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No, you're the one stereotyping.

[–]ConundrumSteve 4 points5 points ago

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I fail to see how I am stereotyping.

[–]Skulder 1 point2 points ago

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The punchline of the text is: "Pat Robertson is a cruel and heartless man".

It is not: "Pat Robertson is evil with god", nor is it: "God and evil goes hand in hand".

You can't blame the poster for the meaning you infer from it, nor can you blame reddit for demonizing, when you interpret subtext, and take it at face value.

[–]ConundrumSteve 3 points4 points ago

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I'm not taking it at face value, but if the poster is not trying to make all Christians look horrible then why even bring up religion/God in general? Clearly that is the message it is trying to convey. It could have just said "Warren Buffett is good," "Bill Gates is good," "Pat Robertson is a cruel and heartless man." No need to bring up God unless it was trying to prove a point against Christians. If your interpretation of the poster differs from mine, well that's great for you but I see what I see and comment accordingly.

[–]Pewpbawlz 1 point2 points ago

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Warren Buffet: "I’ll tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. It’s addictive. And there’s fantastic brand loyalty."

[–]heuheuheuheuh 2 points3 points ago

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When you're looking at it in strictly a business sense, he's totally right. Even considering how dangerous smoking is, smokers make a choice every single time they light up. I smoke myself too so please don't say I'm unsympathetic. If I wanted to quit badly enough, I would.

[–]MennisDripp 0 points1 point ago

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so he's the richest christian? and gates is the second richest... i dgaf about that old prick. who is the richest man in the world?

[–]xxsmokealotxx 1 point2 points ago

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a mexican telecom mogul named Carlos Slim Helu.. not kidding..

[–]Frankocean2 0 points1 point ago

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Mexican here.. Yeah that's correct.

What's with the not kidding part?

[–]xxsmokealotxx 1 point2 points ago

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around here the only guys names "slim" have 6 teeth and spend their days hanging around old gas stations for one, for two, most people have never heard of the guy, unlike the other filthy rich..

[–]Frankocean2 1 point2 points ago

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Don't forget Slim Shady.

[–]Mumps_and_such 0 points1 point ago

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who, coincidentally, is Christian, and HAS done a lot of philanthropist works, at least $4 billion worth.

[–]Keisaku -4 points-3 points ago

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Because, you know, the book told him too.

Did he do it for the book or for the lulz?

Better read much more on his healing powers you should. Unless that's philanthropic.

That's a new one in my 'book'. He's a damn good hustler, though.

[–]bldkis 0 points1 point ago

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Okay, this was neat and interesting the first time.

I'm not one to bitch about reposts. I generally don't mind them.

But come the fuck on! You mean to say you really haven't seen this before?

[–]SCSI 0 points1 point ago

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Wait a minute, is it really spelled 'Evangellical' with a double l?

[–]crayolaface 0 points1 point ago

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I think he's doing it wrong...

[–]skurkee 0 points1 point ago

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I think he gives christians a bad rep. i'm just sayin

[–]BigTuna_103 0 points1 point ago

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All that money donated to charity, I'd like to see what came out of it.

[–]Zinnober 0 points1 point ago

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Wow, most of the commenters here seem to have totally missed the point.

It's a pretty simple message to swallow, for atheists and theists alike...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I thought the bottom guy was going to be Steve Jobs. Too soon?

[–]admdelta 0 points1 point ago

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The way it's used in this image, "God" should be capitalized. Whether you believe in God or not, it's still a name and therefore a proper noun. If you want to lowercase the word "god," then the correct syntax should be "a god." Don't people know how English works any more? God.

[–]Lonesome_Headcrab -4 points-3 points ago

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Straight from 4chan.

[–]thecatscratched -1 points0 points ago

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I posted this on facebook, got 11 aesthists' likes and several christians' hate comments.

[–]foolfromhell 1 point2 points ago

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Those Aesthists really like their aesthetics!

[–]argoff -1 points0 points ago

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Not that I like Robertson, but for the record, Gates and Buffet aren't giving hardly anything to charity. It's a tax shelter. They might do something like buy a billion dollars worth of medicine for children, but at 1000% markup from other companies they own.

[–]Patienceisavirtue1 0 points1 point ago

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But isn't the main thing to focus on the children receiving the medicine?

[–]argoff 0 points1 point ago

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Sure, but don't you think a lot more children could get a lot more medicine if it wasn't sold and bought at 1000% markup as part of some tax avoidance scheme?

[–]Patienceisavirtue1 0 points1 point ago

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True, you have a point.

[–]argoff 0 points1 point ago

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btw, I'm not saying this is what exactly they are doing, but typically large trust tax avoidance schemes work something like that.

[–]drhuntzzz -4 points-3 points ago

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I think it's a shame that one of the people who cares so much about people is demonized because of his beliefs. So maybe he's a little crazy. He was responsible for significant aid in Haiti BEFORE the earthquake. If you judge him by what he does instead of what he says, he's a pretty good guy. http://ob.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blessing_International

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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Operation Blessing airplanes were reportedly[26] being used for Pat Robertson's personal mining venture. In 1997, two of Operation Blessing's pilots, Robert Hinkle and Tahir Brohi, told the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot newspaper that Operation Blessing planes were diverted to support Pat Robertson's diamond mining ventures instead of doing relief work in Zaire. At the time, Robertson had become a close friend of Zaire's dictator, Mobutu Sese Seko and had tried to lift the ban on Mobutu's visa to the US. An investigation by the Virginia Attorney General's office concluded that Operation Blessing "willfully induced contributions from the public through the use of misleading statements..." Robertson reimbursed US$400,000 to the charity and agreed to tighten its bookkeeping.[27]

[–]Subbie138 -2 points-1 points ago

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Bill Gates conspicuous lack of donations strangely absent.

[–]Keisaku 1 point2 points ago

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You don't hear much do you. In one ear out the other much? Must be nice.

[–][deleted] ago*

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[deleted]

[–]Fauxtella 3 points4 points ago

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Why would ties to Planned Parenthood be a bad thing?