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How I feel when I'm playing an RPG and need to level up my stats... (i.imgur.com)

submitted ago by MetalGuitarist

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[–][deleted] 62 points63 points ago

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With every Bethesda game I've played, I end up re-starting the game after about 6 hours when I finally feel like I understand the stats and realize that I have fucked them up.

[–]dumbrocker 18 points19 points ago

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same here. When I played fallout 3 for the first time, I restarted it six times before I said, "Fuck it". One year later someone tells me to save the game before you leave the vault, and I could change my stats around...That pissed me off more because I would have never thought of that

[–]Xorkrik 8 points9 points ago

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Save game editors saves lives!

[–]Pufflekun 23 points24 points ago*

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I hate Bethesda stat systems so much. Oh, you want to play a silver-tongued devil, that solves every situation he's in through the power of verbal manipulation? In that case, I bet you're thinking you should invest a lot of points in Charisma, right? No. Your best option is to set your Charisma to 1, as low as you can possibly set it, and max your Speech as quick as you reasonably can by dumping all your skill points into it. What the fuck kind of balance is that?

[–]G_Morgan 3 points4 points ago

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Hopefully they will get it right for Skyrim. It just annoyed me for Oblivion that it was so difficult to actually level up efficiently without playing the game as if it were pure stat management.

Of course I played a mage and ended up just using enchantments for everything (felt boss having a host of magic rings for every occasion). However I'd have still liked the basic stat system to work properly.

Personally I think they are better off doing something like making every stat gain +3. Then if you use that stat a lot it goes up to +4 or +5. The mechanism they actually used made it too fiddly to level up.

[–]xstaticxgpx 1 point2 points ago

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255 everything! HURRR IM A CAT BIRD WITH 100% INVISIBILITY

[–]samosir 0 points1 point ago

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I hope so as well, and with the amount of criticism Oblivion has gotten thanks to the stats system I am pretty sure they will fix it to an acceptable degree :P

[–]crackshot91 0 points1 point ago

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Can anybody recommend a mod that fixes the leveling and only does that? I just want to play the vanilla game with the unofficial patches, DarN's UI, and proper leveling (no bandits in ebony armor, or rats that take 5 minutes each to kill) and without having to refer to a spreadsheet when I level up. I just want it to be simple. Like a copy of Fallout 3's leveling system but for oblivion.

[–]Anti-gravity 1 point2 points ago

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I forget the name of the website but I think its oblivion nexus, there are mods that will take of the level scaling. I have no idea about fixing the stat system though.

I love playing the vanilla game, but mods make the game so much better.

[–]rockon1215 1 point2 points ago

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tesnexus

[–]ricodued 4 points5 points ago

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Really? I thought charisma governed your base speech skill?

[–]Pufflekun 34 points35 points ago

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It does! The problem is that, unlike the other SPECIAL stats, it doesn't really do anything else that's worthwhile. Therefore, it's better to keep it at 1, pump up your Intelligence to get more skill points, and then use your extra skill points to beef up your Speech. Then you've got as much Speech as you need, plus tons of SPECIAL points in useful stats, because you didn't waste them on Charisma.

[–]ricodued 15 points16 points ago

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Oh, that makes sense. Your explanation, I mean. Bethesda/Obsidian, not so much.

[–]ScreamingGordita 21 points22 points ago

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I'm 60 hours into my newest playthrough.

I fucking hate you.

[–]dumbrocker 0 points1 point ago

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I don't know if they had it in Fallout 3, but in New Vegas they gave you the option in your pipboy to reset you S.P.E.CI.A.L. and you skills at anytime during the game.

[–]MrOmmNomNom 1 point2 points ago

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I don't recall that being in the vanilla game.

[–]AlphaSentry 1 point2 points ago

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That's a mod, there's no feature like that in the original game, it'd defeat the entire purpose of specializing into stuff.

[–]pandacrack 0 points1 point ago

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In general I felt like speech was "overpowered," in so much that I stopped concentrating on every other attribute and started filling up on speech until I got it to 80ish.

[–]DistantRelatives 1 point2 points ago

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exactly, had to restart dragon age origins twice because I had no idea if I even wanted be a fucking archer or dual wielder. -_-

[–]Gadzooks149 1 point2 points ago

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If you were on the PC, there is a wonderful respec potion mod.

[–]Ur_MotherDisapproves 2 points3 points ago

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R-E-S-P-E-C, find out what I want to be!

[–]Rurikar 18 points19 points ago

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Any fucking game that gives me stats, but doesn't tell me EXACTLY what it does makes me rage so fucking hard. You can't just say "Strength: Increases your Physical damage." because how much it increases is fucking important. I want to know how much crit I get from my agi, how many hit points I get from con and exactly what the fuck "Luck" means. It's so god damn painful making choices with vague knowledge.

[–]FoozleMoozle 3 points4 points ago

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This is why I wish RPGs would utilize a "Shitty, Bad, Neutral, Good, Awesome" labeling instead of numbers, or to compliment numbers. Numbers mean absolutely nothing if you don't know what calculations are done on those numbers (or what your numbers should be at to do x thing effectively).

[–]Sparling 1 point2 points ago

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I would definitely be behind this IF it was a compliment to the numbers AND add the formulas used in the background. I've always been a min/max-er and have about as much fun optimizing as playing the actual game.

I get that I'm in the minority there so having a star rating system or something would be better for others but PLEASE don't get rid of the numbers.

[–]FoozleMoozle 0 points1 point ago

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I would be perfectly happy if they displayed a gauge (so you can tell how close to max you are, or how good you are relative to the universe) that also displays the number for the state below or in the gauge. That way, you give meaning the numbers.

Frequently, the equations are complex enough that knowing them isn't always helpful. This is a benefit table-top based games that generally use very simple formulas.

[–]Hiredgoonthug 5 points6 points ago

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That's kinda like taking all the points out of INT in fallout and realizing later on that you are getting way fewer skill points per level because of it.

[–]OtterBohr 1 point2 points ago

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I did the opposite on my first run through Baldur's Gate. I thought it was like tabletop, and I'd need 18 Int to use my spells.

Kind of annoying to find out literally the only thing you need int for you can just gulp a potion to accomplish.

[–]FoozleMoozle 0 points1 point ago

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You did get more spells for having high-int though, if you were a mage (I don't remember what sorcerers used).

[–]OtterBohr 2 points3 points ago*

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The only thing int was used for was learning spells from scrolls. You could only learn so many per level, and only up to a certain level depending on Int.

The problem was you could drink potions of genius to get 19 int, learn all the scrolls in one go, and saved yourself wasting all the points in a useless attribute. The spells didn't disappear after the potion ended, and there was no attribute check for casting the spells.

Though come to think of it, the wish spell checked int and wis values. So there was some utility to having a high int on a mage.

[–]FoozleMoozle 0 points1 point ago

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Huh, I thought they also got bonus spells/day, like priests do. Apparently, they don't. That's lame.

[–]greige 5 points6 points ago

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Only one I know how to increase is acrobatics and only because I jump everywhere I go.

[–]sanga27 8 points9 points ago

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It reminds me of when I used to play Runescape and new skills came out. It was like a feeding frenzy in the starter areas and everyone was like "WTF DO I DO!?!"

[–]HZAres 7 points8 points ago

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hate stat allocation RPGs, i always end researching the stats more than actually playing the game which result in boredom and swift uninstallation =/

[–]WtfWhereAreMyClothes 2 points3 points ago

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AWW PUPPY

[–]jf286381 1 point2 points ago

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or playing Minecraft and need to make tools...

[–]freedomgeek 1 point2 points ago

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I sort of just roleplay it unless I know I need certain stats for something. "What is more like the sort of character I like to play to do?"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Tend to happend, staying like "What do I upgrade?, what is each stat for?" and so on.

[–]meowmixST 0 points1 point ago

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this is exactly how i feel about FFXIV

[–]TalekAetem 0 points1 point ago

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How I felt the other day in New Vegas, just had a hole of what to do, then I started one of the DLCs

[–]shamoni 0 points1 point ago

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We've quit trying to come up with new stuff completely?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I laughed.

[–]cole1114 0 points1 point ago

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It depends on the game. Some games will have you upgrading your stats to improve your character, some games force you to raise certain stats to get certain loot.

[–]Anomonis 0 points1 point ago

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It sucks when a game will allow you to gimp yourself with bad stat choices. "I'm going to be the most charismatic warrior ever! Sweet talk some good deals and solve problems for max exp!" Oh yeah you're getting two shot by a cazadore at level 14. GL next game.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]rakantae 14 points15 points ago

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I never know what the best ratio of STR vs DEX is and I end up either missing everything for 5 levels or tickling enemies for 5 levels.

[–]motfok 5 points6 points ago

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Damn. You really hit home with that.

[–]FoozleMoozle 8 points9 points ago

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Or he completely missed, if he didn't have enough dex! BA-DUM-TISCH

[–]FoozleMoozle 1 point2 points ago

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I would frequently play an archer type character in games my first time through because of this.

[–]toastedbutts 0 points1 point ago

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The few builds that rely on both WILL be weak as shit until higher levels.

I once played a figher/monk who I "built" in my mind instead of just roleplaying, so for 2 years I dicked around until her armor class in just robes with 2 swords was the same as with full plate and a tower shield.

Nobody recognized her anymore without the full tank gear. But she was awesome to me!

Those builds suck, because the best fun and challenge is always at the lower levels anyway. Once you can stop time and melt a continent with fire, great-cleave 8 enemies a round, or have 7 attacks that are pretty much guaranteed to land a crit, it's boring.

[–]poop_lol 12 points13 points ago

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None of that is actually helpful.

[–]toastedbutts 0 points1 point ago

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It's a system that's been around since 1974, and has been spelled out in countless volumes and editions which every RPG fan (and game designer) played endlessly. D&D is the basis for everything.

What is there not to understand?

[–]poop_lol 0 points1 point ago

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How any of that helps me in a game, and what skills I will be able to unlock later in the game.

[–]toastedbutts 0 points1 point ago

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You're absolutely right. Dungeons and Dragons, with all it's rules, always gave players a handbook. Nobody expected anyone to play without it.

These games, instead of making a "player's handbook" in their manual, they release strategy guides for $20. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Fallout are all guilty.

[–]SubtleMockery 5 points6 points ago

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Most games are basically building off the 'ol STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA

[–]toastedbutts 0 points1 point ago

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It's been a perfectly good system since 1974.

[–]SubtleMockery 0 points1 point ago

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Quite right.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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Following this will fuck you so hard in the face in Planescape: Torment.

[–]nohell 4 points5 points ago

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That game....Dude...That game changed everything to me. I'm still searching for a game that is so original.

[–]FoozleMoozle 0 points1 point ago

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The problem isn't frequently "which stat do I use?" so much as, "How much of a stat is enough to do what I want?" This is a problem universally held by all games that use a numbering system for there stats (or just give you the numbers) versus "Shit, Poor Neutral, Good, Awesome" or something along those lines.

[–]nokstar -2 points-1 points ago

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Thank God no one was here at work to hear me laugh extremely loud at this. Enjoy my vote good sir.

[–]Metalheadzaid -1 points0 points ago

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Stat systems are probably the #1 thing I just don't care about in western RPGs. Much prefer them to just put the stats in for me as I pick a class, so I feel like I'm progressing properly (JRPGs do this, although western rpgs don't make you fit one role, like fighter/ranged dps/mage and let you do all 3 if you want).

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]stufff 4 points5 points ago

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To be fair, stat allocation in Diablo II was silly. Energy was a useless stat, you only needed enough strength to equip your armor, some dex if you were a bowazon, and dump everything into vitality.

[–]mrdobo 1 point2 points ago

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Correct. Diablo 2's stat allocation had one function - tempt new players into dumping stats into things that would normally make sense in most games, but wasn't optimal for it. The fact that an entire stat for EVERY BUILD POSSIBLE is useless (energy) is pretty awful.

[–]chuzuki 0 points1 point ago

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You should add just enough dexterity to get your hit percent to 95% and block to 75%, as those are max IIRC.

Another exception is assassins, who gained damage from both strength and dexterity.

[–]stufff 0 points1 point ago

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I mainly played a sorc, curse necro, or hammerdin and I don't think you needed dex for magic hit % (I think magic always hit if not immune?), but you're right about blocking being useful.

[–]chuzuki 0 points1 point ago

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I mainly played assassin. Interestingly enough, dual-claw Weapon Block is the only way I know of to block spells. I only remember testing Lightning, but it does work.

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