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top 200 commentsshow all 254

[–]Renovatio_ 84 points85 points ago

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You think woman dress up just for men? They dress up just to show off to other women too.

[–]donnashowl 28 points29 points ago

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I just told my boyfriend this the other day. He says he doesn't mind.

[–]Kolibri 19 points20 points ago

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Yeah, we really don't. Please show off all you want to other women. I heard they hate cleavage.

[–]Duke_the_Pancake 6 points7 points ago

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And when you make out with them in public...so I have read.

[–]eugenia_loli 1 point2 points ago

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I'm a woman, and I don't dress up. I wear jeans, a t-shirt, and athletic shoes. I don't like people who dress up actually, men or women.

[–]donnashowl 0 points1 point ago

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I only dress up when I have someone to impress, or when I feel like it. My usual "uniform" is a knee length skirt, a t-shirt, a clean face and teeth, clean but unbrushed hair, shaved legs, and boots in the winter or flip flops in the summer.

My teaching uniform is a dowdy sweater and a long, black or black-and-white ankle-length skirt with black ballet flats. Brushed hair.

My job interview uniform is black slacks, a black blazer, a blue button-up shirt, and light concealer and eyeshadow. Brushed hair.

But when I have a formal dance to go to or a girly cosplay? IS IT CAN BE MAKEUP FUNTIEMS. :D

Makeup is one of those things that is fun as a treat but terrible as a routine. Like grading, or washing a car.

[–]Osiiris 4 points5 points ago

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I think you may have missed the point. The comic tries to express that the means by which a woman measures herself is defined by men. Even when they are showing off to other women, they are showing off how desirable they are to men relative to the women they are showing off to.

This is also valid for men. The one on the left could be a spray tanned, muscle ridden, douche bag and the one on the right could be a rich, well groomed, snob.

Its quite interesting how much more ones environment influences ones actions, compared to ones inner nature.

[–]Renovatio_ 0 points1 point ago

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I think you have a valid point. But I do believe I understood the point of the comic. I just commented on the idea that males drive fashion.

[–]Osiiris 0 points1 point ago

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Generally I find that female fashion is male driven(for women), and is becoming, with the aid of equality movement, female driven(for men). But at least high fashion, who's qualities tend to trickle down to every day fashion, is gender neutral.

[–]Keelor 8 points9 points ago

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They only dress up to show off to other women as they are in "competiton" with other women over male partners

[–]Renovatio_ 3 points4 points ago

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"A woman's worst enemy is another woman"

-My dad.

[–]ViperApples 1 point2 points ago

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Unless that woman comes across a bear

[–]pumapunk359 0 points1 point ago

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hah nice one! take that male-dominated culture!

[–]Darrian 172 points173 points ago

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I know it's just a comic, and nothing can be simplified perfectly into that format... but there's a damn significant difference here. The woman on the left isn't going to get stoned to death for putting on more clothes.

... if only I had my way...

[–]hustle 69 points70 points ago

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I don't know. Potheads love to smoke with hot chicks.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points ago

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Willie Nelson is living proof that it is impossible to get stoned to death.

[–]5one4 7 points8 points ago

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I once got stoned to death...

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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...you got better?

[–]5one4 13 points14 points ago

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I'm not sure

[–]kraftymidgets 1 point2 points ago

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Are you grateful?

[–]GristleThornbody 2 points3 points ago

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No, leave that proof to these guys

[–]B0yWonder 8 points9 points ago

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Exactly, the difference is one has the freedom to dress as they please, drive a car, leave the house without a male companion, and pretty much do whatever they want.

[–]kodutta7 4 points5 points ago

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I think reality isn't as funny as a newspaper comic gimmick.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points ago

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I feel like stoning isn't as common as reddit seems to think it is...

[–]I_am_Bob 10 points11 points ago

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According to this almost year old article. Iran is the only country to still have official (as in government court ordered) stoning's, and there's about one or two stonings a year.

[–]Jack_Squire 14 points15 points ago

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That's about one or two stonings too many.

[–]Kolibri 4 points5 points ago

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As of September 2010, stoning is a punishment that is included in the laws in seven countries including Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, and some states in Nigeria. While stoning may not be codified in the laws of Afghanistan and Somalia, both countries have seen several incidents of stoning to death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning

[–]I_am_Bob 4 points5 points ago

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Hmm Interesting, right from the BBC article:

Still, human rights groups say Iran is the only country in which stoning is both legal and is still carried out.

Usually BBC seems pretty good (better than most) about fact checking, I wonder why the discrepancy?

[–]Kolibri 10 points11 points ago

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Both wikiepedia and the BBC article are probably right. In other words:

Countries where it is in the law and used as a sentence within the law: Iran

Countries where it is in the law but not used as a sentence within the law: Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, and some states in Nigeria

Countries where it is not in the law but is practiced outside the law: Afghanistan and Somalia.

[–]wallychamp 6 points7 points ago

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It's the "airplane crash" effect. It doesn't happen a lot (although the fact it happens at all is still atrocious) so when it does happen it makes for a shocking news story.

[–]onionhammer 1 point2 points ago

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Lashes are probably more appropriate, you're right.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Well, I did say that.

[–]mcbunn 0 points1 point ago

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So it's clearly an effective deterrent.

shifty eyes

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

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yeah so that makes it ok

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points ago

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It weakens its usability in discussion on the differences between western and middle eastern culture.

What about my comment made you think I thought stoning was OK?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago*

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Many women choose to dress this way in free countries, and to avoid being judged on appearence is a major factor, along with other reasons. Those women deserve nothing but respect IMO. Dont stereotype. As little as 100 years ago, women in western cultures faced arrest and social alienation for failing to cover up properly - the same thing faced by some women today. Extreme reactions to it, like violence, are very rare. Its sad we need to continue to press that women who cover up do not choose to, without much evidence, to justify how we see women in our culture.

[–]MeloJelo 1 point2 points ago

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I think violence against women trespassing against or thinking about trespassing against clothing taboos, or social taboos, like going out in public without a male relative or disobeying one's husband or father, lead to more violent responses than they should. Just because these instances of violence take place in the home and aren't performed publically does not mean that they are in anyway more acceptable than stonings done in front of a large audience.

[–]Veylis 3 points4 points ago

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As little as 100 years ago, women in western cultures faced arrest and social alienation for failing to cover up properly

So Islam is only backwards by about 100 years.

the same thing faced by some women today

Not just some women. Only women in Islamic countries have to deal with this shit.

[–]Roxytronics 4 points5 points ago

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You are right, it cannot be simplified perfectly...mainly because you make monolithic assumptions about women in Islam and their vulnerability. Being stoned is an extreme and RARE reaction in the Muslim world, not at all representative of the ulemic system. A woman behind the veil may just look at an American woman and see how vulnerable she is. Considering that 3 of 5 of the American women you meet have been sexually assaulted within their lifetime, the woman behind the veil may have a more verifiable and probable claim to this assumption.

[–]MeloJelo 10 points11 points ago

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Actually the statistic for women being sexualy assualted typically ranges from 1 in 4 to 1 in 3. I think your estimate is a bit high.

Also, many Muslim women are sexually assualted by male relatives or by their husbands. Cases of incest are rarely reported to avoid bringing shame on the family, and, in fact, the victim very often faces punishment by her family and anyone else who might find out. Marital rape is not even recognized as far as I know.

The dress that Muslim women are required to wear is to preserve their modesty, but bears the idea that if they dare show so much as bare ankle, they are basically asking to get raped. Who can blame a man who rapes a woman that shows off her body, after all?

[–]solinv 2 points3 points ago

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Actually the statistic for women being sexualy assualted typically ranges from 1 in 4 to 1 in 3. I think your estimate is a bit high.

It only gets that high when you count stuff like an ass-grab or other sexual harassment in the same category as rape. If you consider rape as its own independent category the figure is closer to 1/20.

[–]Almalexia 1 point2 points ago

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So ass-grabbing, fondling, and unwanted touching aren't statistics worth taking into account? It's still sexual assault.

[–]solinv 9 points10 points ago

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It's misleading. It's worth taking into account but don't you dare try to argue that an accidental ass-grab on a crowded subway is the same as violent rape. Theres a huge difference in magnitudes here and to fail to take that into account is horribly misleading to women and the public at large as well as minimalizing the effect of an actual violent crime by putting it on the same level as riding an overcrowded subway.

Stating misleading statistics like that is part of the problem that creates a culture of fear among women. It's what leads women to believe they will never be safe. It makes progress in womens rights more difficult.

[–]xzarakizraiia 4 points5 points ago

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Can you provide any sources to back up your claims that "accidental ass-grabs" are a significant portion of the reports making up that data?

I have people brush up against my ass all the time on the subway. I certainly don't consider that assault or contact the police. The only time I did report something was when a man stood very close to me in a non-crowded car, then sat across from me and proceeded to masturbate. And, honestly, I'm not sure I would've bothered if there hadn't happened to be a cop hanging out at my stop when I got off.

"Misleading" statistics aren't what lead women to believe they aren't safe. Our actual experiences are pretty convincing on their own.

[–]solinv 8 points9 points ago*

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According to the DOJ, 3 out of every 10,000 people is the victim of violent or coercive rape each year. Assume all of them are women (not an accurate assumption). I'm assuming due to a lack of reporting that figure could be as high as 30 (12 is the official estimate) out of 5000 women (due to an equal gender split). Aggregate over 20 years to account for the fact that women are most at risk for rape between 18 and 28 then add another 10 years for good measure, taking into account that women who were raped once are much more likely to be raped again and you have between 300 and 600 out of 5000 women are raped in their lifetime. I've grossly over-estimated based on the statistics and the absolute highest estimate I can get is ~1/10. Thats well short of the stated 1/4.

I remember reading the official report about what data was actually aggregated to get the 1/4 statistic. I'll try to find it and edit it in, but I'm hoping DOJ stats should be good enough.

Here's a critique of the one and only study that found the 1/4 statistic. It's written by a well respected feminist author and professor of philosophy.

[–]GeneralSarsby 0 points1 point ago

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downvoted for using an actual source? It's unfortunate that you posted on the end of a hateful-chain of comments

[–]Nas-psu 1 point2 points ago

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women do not get stoned to death for not covering up you ignorant fool... not even in Saudi Arabia... they wear the hijab not the burqa there. It is only in Afghanistan that you get in to trouble for that.. how about the other 1.2 billion muslims in the world? Stop stereotyping.. women chose to wear the hijab or the burqa in most countries.. and in islam, the number one thing is loving our women.. theres so much love the quran would keep saying how you should love your mother more and whatnot.. do your research and stop watching fox news. kthnxsbye

[–]bunnybunbun 0 points1 point ago

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No one is saying all Muslims stone.

We are saying that even one instance is one too many.

kthxbai

[–]Mcpersonson -2 points-1 points ago

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Whatever you say

Of the Unbelievers: Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Sura 9:5)

4:101 “When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.” 4:102 “For the Unbelievers, Allah has prepared a humiliating punishment.”

9.123 “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you”

9.73 “O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.”

“War is prescribed to you: but from this ye are averse.” (Sura 2:212).

“To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause” (Al Bukhari vol. 1:25)

Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels...Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked.”

2:190-292 “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

2:193 “And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and let there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.”

2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not. 217 They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: “Fighting therein is a grave (offense); but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein.”

2:244 “Then fight in the cause of God, and know that God heareth and knoweth all things. 245 Who is he that will loan to God a beautiful loan, which God will double unto his credit and multiply many times? It is God that giveth (you) want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return.”

No doubt I heard Allah's messenger saying, “During the last days there will appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.” (Bukhari volume 9, no.64)

One of their Hadiths states about their own: Narrated Ikrima: The statement of Allah’s Apostle (Muhammad), “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (Hadith 9:45; 84.2.57.)

Sura 9:29-33 “Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled.”

Sura 8:15 “O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers preparing for battle do not turn your backs to them. [Anyone who does] shall incur the wrath of God, and Hell shall be his home,- an evil dwelling (indeed)!”

Sura 8:57 “So if you gain the mastery over them in war, punish them severely in order to disperse those who are behind them, so that they may learn a lesson.”

Sura 8:65 “O Messenger! Rouse the Believers among you to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish two thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are people without understanding.” In other words those who believe not in Allah are not equal to those who do.”

Sura 8:67 “It is not fitting for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he has made a great slaughter in the land.”

Sura 6:157 “Or lest ye should say: "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they." Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy: then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth God's signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.” So if you are not a Muslim, how do you think this affects you.

Sura 8:12 “Remember your Lord inspired the angels with the message: “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”

“Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah. Whatever you spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid to you and you shall not be treated unjustly.”

“Take not the Jews and Christians for friends ... slay the idolaters [infidels] wherever ye find them. ...Fight against those who ... believe not in Allah nor the Last Day” (Sura 5:51; 9:5,29,41).

Sura 9:39 “If you do not fight, He will punish you severely, and put others in your place”

9:52 “…Allah will send His punishment from Himself or by our hands.”

The Qur’an teaches: Allah has given those that fight with their goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home . . . The unbelievers are your sworn enemies . . . Seek out your enemies relentlessly . . . . You shall not plead for traitors . . . Allah does not love the treacherous or the sinful. (Dawood, Koran, pp. 367-68.)

“. . . kill the pagans wherever you may find them . . .”

Sura 4:74: “Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of Allah, - whether he is slain or gets victory - soon shall We give him a reward of great value.”

Sura 4:95 “Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home.”

Sura 9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, heal the breasts of the Believers.” Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and God will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame. (Surah 9:14 at-Taubah 9:14)

Sura 9:78-83 “Know they not that God doth know their secret (thoughts) and their secret counsels, and that God knoweth well all things unseen? Those who slander such of the believers as give themselves freely to (deeds of) charity, as well as such as can find nothing to give except the fruits of their labor, and throw ridicule on them, God will throw back their ridicule on them: and they shall have a grievous penalty. 80 Whether thou ask for their forgiveness or not, (their sin is unforgivable): if thou ask seventy times for their forgiveness, God will not forgive them: because they have rejected God and His apostle; and God guideth not those who are perversely rebellious. Those who were left behind (in the Tabuk expedition) rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the apostle of God: they hated to strive and fight, with their goods and their persons, in the cause of God: they said, “Go not forth in the heat. Say, “The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.” If only they could understand! Let them laugh a little: much will they weep: a recompense for the (evil) that they do. If, then, God bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say: “Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me: for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion: then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind.”

Sura 4:168: “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”

Sura 9:123: “Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbours, and let them find you rigorous: and know that God is with those who fear him.” Hey neighbor how do you feel about this?

Mohammed said: “No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel).”(Hadith vol. 9:50) This means a non- Muslim.

Sura 15:66: “And We made known this decree to him, that the last remnants of those (sinners) should be cut off by the morning.”

[–]A_Slow_Descent 20 points21 points ago

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Reddit is a repost dominated culture

[–]MollyRocket 82 points83 points ago*

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The difference is that one of them was able to choose what they wanted to wear that morning.

[edited for typo]

[–]tireytha 17 points18 points ago

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Here's the similarity: one woman had powerful external pressure applied to her from a young age. She now understands that covering her sexually powerful body is the best way to be a woman. Covering herself helps keep men "under control".

The other woman had powerful external pressure applied to her from a young age. She now understands that exposing her sexually powerful body is the best way to express herself as a woman. Parading her charms is a good way to "control men".

If the cartoon had shown a western woman in jeans and a t-shirt it would have been a different argument for me. I'm not saying I agree with any sort of oppression of women, but western women are not immune from dumb societal pressures. Breast enhancement is one example. Any time a person goes under anaesthetic they risk death. Is risking death for the sake of impressing bonehead males particularly empowering behaviour?

[–]GrinningPariah 2 points3 points ago

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This would be a fair argument if all women in western society walked around like that all the time. Girl is clearly at the beach. This is like pointing to someone in an (american) football players uniform and saying "Look at how violent their culture is that they have to wear all this armor!"

This trivializes the troubles of women in some muslim nations by implying the legal mandate from the government oppressing them somehow equivalent to cultural pressures some western women face.

[–]tireytha 1 point2 points ago*

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I would never want to imply that the oppression of Afghan women is equivalent to an 18 year old wanting bigger boobs but people do tend to flip out at Muslim covering up. It's like a symbol that fires people up. Because the reaction can be so vehemently "omg someone over there is unfairly oppressive" I wonder if it is not partly fuelled by the unconscious feeling that women in the west are not entirely free from irrational social constraints. Or maybe it has nothing to do with that and is more general fear of things Muslim. Or maybe just fear of things out of the ordinary. I dunno...

[–]Doctor_B 6 points7 points ago

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If by "impressing bonehead males" you mean making a prudent investment, yep.

Breast implants, nose jobs, plastic surgery in general is one of the best return-on-investment scenarios women can make, you're looking at average annual salary +10 000 USD for a one-time cost of what? 2 500 USD?

Check out "Beauty and the Labor Market" by Hamermesh and Biddle, if you wanna bump yourself up a pay grade you're much better-off putting your money in tits than in MBAs.

[–]wonko221 3 points4 points ago

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That's an interesting perspective. Shameful, if true, but interesting.

Hopefully Hamermesh and Biddle include lots of photos, cuz i'll be reading about the ROI of cosmetic surgery tonight!

[–]tireytha 3 points4 points ago

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Makes sense. I have a good friend who is young, gorgeous, well-endowed and a programmer. Her department got slashed - layoffs all over the place - while she was offered a promotion to Business Analyst. Now she is also smart and awesome, but I couldn't help wondering if her looks (she makes men's brains turn to sparkly mush) gave her that edge over the programmer guys she was working with.

[–]codyc 8 points9 points ago

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When I hoped into my car to drive down to the gas station to buy a Watchamacallit, I was risking death. Are Watchamacallits worth risking death? You god damn right they are.

[–]oasisisthewin 1 point2 points ago

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Difference is the first girl is going swimming!

[–]j-smith 1 point2 points ago

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Except covering herself, in the first case, keeps her from being attacked.

In the second case, whether she chooses to "parade her charms" (as you put it) or not, the outcome is the same.

And, as for breast enhancement, a one-off risk is hardly equivalent to a daily risk.

[–]tireytha 1 point2 points ago

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My point was that women of both cultures are internalizing and using their bodies to reflect what men/society/other women think they ought to be, so let's not start calling kettles black just yet.

[–]j-smith 0 points1 point ago

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And my point is that the impact is of different magnitudes. The parallel that has been drawn minimizes that difference.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Saudi_Arabia "Women, be they local or foreign, are all required to wear an abaya, a long and loose black robe. While a headscarf is optional for non-Saudi females (particularly in Jeddah and Dammam), one should at least be brought along in order to avoid possible harassment from the religious police or to be used as a means of deflecting attention from potentially aggravating men."

Now, France has a law that prohibits face-coverings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering "As of 11 April 2011, it is illegal to wear a face-covering veil or other mask in public places such as the street, shops, museums, public transportation, and parks. Veils such as the chador, scarves and other headwear that do not cover the face, are not affected by this law and can be worn.[4] The law applies to all citizens, including men and non-Muslims, who may not cover their face in public except where specifically provided by law such as motor-bike riders and safety workers and during established occasional events such as some carnivals. "

But there's a big difference between requiring that you wear a specific garment with possible fatal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Mecca_girls%27_school_fire) results and requiring that you NOT wear a specific garment type (possible fine).

And to be clear, I do not support either law.

[–]MollyRocket 1 point2 points ago

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The only different with the woman who is fully covered is that while it STARTED as a method of protecting and saving her beauty for her husband, it has now been transformed into a form of control. While some woman choose to be fully covered in North America, the fact of the matter is that other women in other parts of the world do not get a choice.

Some may argue that they prefer it that way, but they aren't given a choice to begin with. This is in countries where rape victims are stoned to death for ruining their virginity. It's not about social pressures when the option of choosing what you wear is absolutely out of your control.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points ago

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looks like someone has a case of the small titties

[–]earl_sleek 1 point2 points ago

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oh come on now, I'm a fan of the IBTC

[–]tireytha 1 point2 points ago

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I see your remark and raise it a "D".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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might i point you to r/gonewild?

[–]Im_Sarcastic 1 point2 points ago

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Is risking death for the sake of impressing bonehead males particularly empowering behaviour?

Probably not, but it's still more empowering than having to wear particular clothes or risk death.

[–]tireytha 1 point2 points ago

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It's more empowering to risk death than to risk death ? Wut?

[–]Im_Sarcastic 2 points3 points ago

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The act of risking death is not what constitutes the measure of empowerment it is the situation you are in that would lead to the risking of death.

[–]tireytha 2 points3 points ago*

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The point is that it is not actually empowering that a woman has to get plastic surgery to feel good about herself. It's a death risk for a look that gets brownie points from western society.

[–]Im_Sarcastic 1 point2 points ago

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I'd be willing to bet some women feel more empowered after getting implants, or at least more than those who feel empowered by having to cover up.

[–]tireytha 2 points3 points ago

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We have to decide if getting a boner response or a deeply sublimated boner response is the equivalent to actually being empowered.

[–]Im_Sarcastic 2 points3 points ago

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There is no external measurement for empowerment, it's only based on whether or not you feel like you've been empowered.

[–]wonko221 2 points3 points ago

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When i was a child, i used to love those rides at the zoo where i got to turn the steering wheel on the jeep as it went through the African Animals areas. I thought i was driving. But it turns out that the great big steel rail beneath me kept me from veering off course more than a few feet, and i had no options to brake or accelerate.

Was I driving, even though i felt like i was driving? Even if you want to get technical and assert that i was driving, was i driving in a meaningful way, when my path was so tightly constricted before i even grabbed the wheel?

I responded elsewhere to this effect, but women typically choose between flaunting sexuality or divorcing themselves from their gender if they want to make progress professionally. Either way, they're playing within a tight set of rules than men typically are. They're empowered insolong as they play the games that makes us men-folk portion out a little domain for them to rule.

... ... ...

That being said, men-as-individuals are victims here, too. We're brought up believing that this shit is natural and good, and most of us never get around to questioning it. We're given standards to live up to or we're not "real men", and face our own sets of societal pressures.

Technology has gotten us to a point were gender can be discarded in a lot of issues, but gender is instead used to maintain traditional barricades.

[–]tireytha 1 point2 points ago

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If a woman gets implants because she is starting from a place of negative esteem (socially induced) she may get a temporary ego boost, yes.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]tireytha 1 point2 points ago

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Hell, NO!

[–]wonko221 -1 points0 points ago

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That is not the difference. Both women chose to wear what they wore. But their choices were shaped by different cultures.

In one culture women are taught to be ashamed to show their bodies because it may provoke sexual wantonness in the men around them, because men cannot be expected to control their urges.

In the other culture, women are taught to be ashamed if their bodies do not provoke sexual wantonness in the men around them, because their self-worth is determined in a large part by how strongly they're desired (specifically sexually) by others.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points ago

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There's a difference between choosing freely, choosing based on a culture, and not having the option to choose. Learn it.

[–]wonko221 4 points5 points ago

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There's a difference between choosing freely,

There is no free choice. You can choose between the options you're aware of. Ignorance limits choice. Therefore, anything less than "fully-informed" means limited choices.

choosing based on a culture,

culture informs our awareness of our choices. Exposition to other ideas/cultures can broaden our awareness. All of our choices are made from amongst those options of which we're aware.

and not having the option to choose.

Even in the most oppressed society, you have a choice. You may not like the repercussions imposed upon you so that choice doesn't seem like a good one, but it's still available.

Learn it.

I've thought about it a lot. Care to express why i'm wrong in more than a silly, poorly thought expression and a smarmy "Learn it"?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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I'm not against the spread of ideas. I'm against saying that the US, which says that "women who aren't beautiful are worthless" is exactly as wrong as places in the middle east that kill women for not wearing their coverings.

[–]wonko221 1 point2 points ago

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I don't understand your comment as a reply to mine.... Are you responding to some other idea in your head?

You snarkily told me to learn the difference between free choice, choice limited by culture, and choicelessness. I responded.

You reply as if i implied that you are "against the spread of ideas."

Then you make a point which was not clearly drawn from your previous post, that the US is exactly as wrong as places in the middle east for how we treat women. If you think that the two positions are exactly equivalent, i disagree with you for entirely different reasons than i would have expected.

[–]tireytha 0 points1 point ago*

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Okay: one is 80% wrong while the other is 100% wrong.

Fat, ugly American girl's response - "...okay..."

*edited to say that for the record I'm not a fat ugly American girl.

[–]this_sort_of_thing 0 points1 point ago

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That's true, but then you need to take your own advice. Don't assume that some chick is wearing one of those Burka's or its variants because they're forced too.

I know Islam's a stupid fucked up religion like most of them, but you gotta realise some people really believe in that shit, and some of those people are women too.

Honestly, it's a little bit unfathomable that reddit thinks religious Islamic people only exist in the form of men and that every single Muslim woman is a woman oppressed and desperately wants out, they just need their knight in shining armour.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I understand your logic, and that's true, if the woman truly believes it...well, it's not our place to tell her she's being repressed :/

[–]LastAXEL 4 points5 points ago

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Yes it it totally is our place to tell her. Just because she has been brainwashed by a fundamentalist religious society to the point where she doesn't recognize her severe state of repression doesn't mean we can't try to enlighten her and open her mind to the dangerous ideas of doing what the fuck she wants. Sitting by and not trying to enlighten repressed individuals is one of the reasons why said repression still exists into the 21st century.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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I'm all for spreading ideas. But that's where it has to stop, they have to come to their own conclusions.

[–]Non-prophet 5 points6 points ago

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Really? Opposing irrational, sexist bullshit "isn't our place"?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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It's thoughts like yours that start wars. Both sides think they're "completely right" and that the other side is "bullshit, irrational, and harmful".

[–]Non-prophet 3 points4 points ago

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Maybe, but it's also thoughts like mine that make progress. We didn't get to female voting by going "Aw shucks, some people don't think it's a good idea. Forget about it! I'm so sorry I brought it up!"

Completely seriously, if we'd only accepted social change or reform on the basis of provably objective human decision making, we would still live in caves.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I was assuming your idea of "opposing" was "war against the nation that just doesn't get it". If you're talking about the spread of ideas, I have absolutely zero against that, and am very much in favor of it.

[–]Non-prophet 2 points3 points ago

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That's...honestly a pretty retarded assumption.

[–]this_sort_of_thing 2 points3 points ago

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You're right it isn't but we're brainwashed into believing so (just look at all the comments). Then again, so are they brainwashed into believing that wearing a veil is a good thing. It's all perspectives. The best thing is to understand the perspective of everyone else. And then get the fuck out of there and realise they're all crazy.

[–]tireytha 1 point2 points ago

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Yes, because an overweight girl in a bikini would probably be yelled at by guys to "put on a burka". So bikini wearing becomes less of a "freedom" for women and more of a display opportunity for the sexually desirable.

[–]mcbunn -1 points0 points ago*

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Are you really equating wearing a bathing suit to the beach to wearing a burqa every time you leave the house?

edit: derp I see she's not at the beach but nobody wears a bikini on a city street. So still completely ridiculous.

[–]wonko221 2 points3 points ago

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Do you really read in my comment that that is what i'm doing? That i'm equating those two things?

If so, everyone involved in teaching you reading comprehension failed you in a significant way.

[–]jceez 0 points1 point ago

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Well, what if someone woke up and chose to walk around outside topless?

[–]Sjalalala -1 points0 points ago*

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How do you know?

Edit: Sorry for asking

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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independent thought alarm...

[–]dude_manrod 3 points4 points ago

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I don't know why you're being downvoted. If the comic takes place in (let's say) the US, then each woman can legally choose what she wears. If it takes place in (let's say) Iran, not so much.

[–]tireytha 4 points5 points ago

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That's funny because the US gets its knickers in an utter twist if a nipple is exposed on TV (Janet Jackson incident).

[–]4rch 1 point2 points ago

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Don't worry Sjalalala. UPVOTES

[–]BudMasterSess -2 points-1 points ago

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Why are we making the assumption that the woman in the niqab was forced to wear it. The point is that both chose to dress the way they did, and both were making assumptions about the other. The comic doesn't state the less dressed female is in America and the more dressed one is in Saudi Arabia.

Presumably they see one another so they are in the same place. Both had the freedom to dress how they want. Both make assumptions about the other. Do you say that all women who cover their hair do so because they are forced to?

[–]MollyRocket 2 points3 points ago

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I've already commented on this, but I'll repeat it again. In North America the odds of whether or not the woman on the right was able to choose her garment are increased, but the fact of the matter is that most women donning those garments do not have a choice in the matter. Where it started as a form of saving beauty for your husband, it has since been transformed into a vicious form of control over women.

The fact of the matter is that this comic has no idea what it's talking about, and neither of those women can be compared to eachother in real world context. If the woman on the right weren't in North America, the option of choosing her clothing would be taken away from her. She doesn't get a choice where this clothing originated.

[–]Marxshmarx 8 points9 points ago

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Go to Saudi Arabia and then go to the Oregon Country Fair. Tell me which one treats women with more respect.

[–]whyforyoudoit 3 points4 points ago

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Can you say more about this?

[–]Marxshmarx 19 points20 points ago

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I went to the Oregon Country Fair last weekend. It's a hippie good time and there were many, many topless girls.

My girlfriend teaches ESL in Portland and half of her students are Saudi men, who are generally very nice. I know this evidence is anecdotal and second hand because I can only tell you about it because she has a window into that culture which she shares with me. Anyway, the men and women are always separate in any public setting. The men know nothing about women at all because they're not allowed to have any female friends or any contact with women. Women aren't allowed to go outside without a man, they aren't allowed to drive, they aren't allowed to show their face. When you ask the men if the women are happy they say, of course, but they don't know whether they're happy or not, they're completely alien to the men. Marriages are arranged, choice is non-existent.

When we create and environment where a woman can be naked if she so chooses we create an environment of respect. We respect her choice and her body. When we create an environment where a woman is not permitted to even leave her house without an escort. We are not respecting her choice or her body.

Essentially, I'm saying that Sex in the City style feminine licentiousness isn't freedom. But the choice to embrace that or any other lifestyle IS freedom. One side in this misguided comic has that freedom, one doesn't. And that's objective, beyond what the respective cultures might think of each other.

[–]whyforyoudoit 0 points1 point ago

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ah ha! I was just curious as I am fair family myself, and I thought you might have been saying that women at OCF were repressed in some way. Thanks for the clarification.
Did you have a good fair this year?

[–]Marxshmarx 0 points1 point ago

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Ha. No it was just that the girl in the sunglasses reminded me of the girls at the fair. The fair was great, I only went Saturday, and it started getting really crowded around 4 and I didn't have enough money to even start buying the things that I wanted, but I saw a circus troupe from Bellingham, WA that blew my mind, and a very insightful talk at the Rabbit Hole about developmental biology. Cheers fellow Cascadian (I assume).

[–]whyforyoudoit 0 points1 point ago

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Man, I love fair! Insider tip: if you're only going for the day try out Sunday - it's way less crowded. Also, try to get a camping pass - get on a crew - the real fair happens at night! If you can't get a fair pass, try camping at one of the outlying camps - I've heard you can have a blast out there too! Cheers!

[–]nerdofthunder 3 points4 points ago

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This is more about the perspectives of the two women than right and wrong.

[–]nickiter 3 points4 points ago

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Yeah, poor Western women, getting stoned for not wearing bikinis in public.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]esmooth 33 points34 points ago

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Not if shes in france

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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let's see what happens when the woman on the left tries to wear a niqab through the airport security before we claim one of the societies doesn't discriminate based on clothing preference.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points ago

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I am not a fan of the TSA, but security does need to be able to identify faces at a security checkpoint. What is the problem there? Should I be able to wear a ski mask?

[–]Epershand 9 points10 points ago

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Upvote for rationality!

[–]j0lian 5 points6 points ago

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If that were the only issue, we'd never see discrimination against women wearing hijabs in an airport, keeping their entire face visible.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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I'll have to take your word for it since I've only flown a handful of times in my life and not since 2006. All I'm saying is it's not acceptable to be completely unidentifiable when passing through security.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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What happens? Really, I want to know because I see veil wearing Muslim women at US airports all the time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Really? Here in Canada I've seen crowds of people be openly racist and islamophobic towards Muslim women even in shopping malls.

[–]KungFuHamster 1 point2 points ago*

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Versus.... stoning? Jail? Other form of punishment, honor killings, etc.? You really think these are equal?

Edit: Thought you were trying to equate them. I understand that there is a social problem, but it's not institutionalized subjugation, which I believe is much worse than some people being racist and ignorant.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I didn't say they were, but they're both examples of disgusting human beings.

[–]KungFuHamster 0 points1 point ago

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People will often have a visceral, instinctual (xenophobic) reaction to people who are very different from them. Combine that with the typical lack of education and exposure to other cultures, communally-reinforced hate for people that remind them of the stereotyped "terrorist", and you get a recipe for prejudice.

They're ignorant and racist, but I wouldn't say they're "disgusting," just sad. Typical of the sheltered cliche American.

[–]Anaxarete 0 points1 point ago

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Canada's always had issues with foreigners who dress weird. My relatives up there couldn't wear traditional Indian clothes in the 80s/90s without people screaming 'paki' at them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Yeah, the veil is fine, but he's talking about the full body/full face coverings you see in extremely conservative Muslim countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/04/europe_muslim_veils/img/4.jpg

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I wouldn't call it racist if airport security is opposed to the kind of coverings in the picture you linked.

A man could very easily be hiding inside that burqa or niqab.

[–]KungFuHamster 0 points1 point ago

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There's threat of inconvenience and then there's threat of death or some sort of abuse or punishment beyond just being singled out for a closer look. They're just a tiny bit different.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points ago

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First off: repost.

Secondly: Merely blaming men for how women behave grossly simplifies how cultures develop and solves nothing.

[–]DoesNotTalkMuch 26 points27 points ago

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You don't need to point that out, that's a theme in the comic. The whole point is that they're both wrong about each other.

[–]Dawgishly 21 points22 points ago

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More like one of them is wrong. One culture has something approximating equality, while the other has the most extreme form of subservience to be found in this world.

The cartoon simply tries to equivocate two things that are not equal. This is because liberals are uncomfortable judging anyone except conservative white american male Christians. This group, however, is a fine target to pin every wrong in the world on. In fact, Arab men likely treat their women like so much chattel because of something that the Christians did during the Crusades.

[–]DoesNotTalkMuch 6 points7 points ago

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No, the cartoon gives two specific examples about people who are wrong about each other. The woman on the right might be from a culture that is known for doing those things, but she herself is not wearing the burka out of subservience to religious desires, she is implied to be doing it for personal modesty.

The woman wearing the burka thinks that the woman is wearing a bikini because she's being subservient to the male desire to see scantily clad women.

You know what? The stereotypes aren't even all that wrong. But they're wrong in these particular instances.

What YOU'RE doing is you're applying a stereotype when it's been clearly illustrated that the stereotype is incorrect here. Stereotypes are harmful because people like you do things like that.

[–]JORDANEast 4 points5 points ago

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Pretty sure that regardless of personal modesty there are laws in Islamic countries prohibiting clothing like that on the left. The culture on the right is far more oppressive of women no matter how you look at it.

[–]PorkRocket 1 point2 points ago

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Cultural relativism alert.

[–]jngrow 0 points1 point ago

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Women are literally not allowed to go outside without a man in various Islamic cultures. Sorry, someone is more wrong here. "It's part of their culture/people are conditioned" only goes so far.

[–]DoesNotTalkMuch 0 points1 point ago

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I didn't say "It's part of their culture/people are conditioned," I said they're incorrectly identifying what culture that the other is a part of.

[–]jngrow 0 points1 point ago

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I think you are giving the comic too much credit then. I think the comic is a textbook example of cultural relativism

[–]Roxytronics 1 point2 points ago

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Funny. The perspective that decides that what women are subjected to in America is not subservience (objectification, sexual/physical danger, working more hours than men on average, still expected to do the majority of child rearing/house work, all while making less money) just happens to be one defined and produced by conservative white males...hmmm, isn't that a coincidence.

[–]stugster 2 points3 points ago

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You made the point I wanted to make so much more enjoyable. Thanks for that.

The two things aren't comparable. I'm not going to stone the hot blonde to death for not walking around in a bikini.

Edit: Err.. I'm not going to stone either to death!

[–]wonko221 0 points1 point ago

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One culture has something approximating equality, while the other has the most extreme form of subservience to be found in this world.

You would be hard-pressed to find equality in the US. Most "successful" women have gotten where they are by either commercializing their sexuality or by divorcing themselves from their gender.

Women definitely have more opportunities here than in some countries, but they also face unique obstacles.

[–]MeloJelo 2 points3 points ago

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But you admit that the challengges faced here are not comparable to those faced in many very socially/religiously conservative countries . . .

[–]wonko221 2 points3 points ago

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I"ll admit they're not the same. But if you take someone crippled by body-image issues who resorts to unhealthy eating habits that strip them of health and vigor, does the fact that they're not made to wear conservative clothes make much difference to them?

I'm not here to say our culture is better or worse than another. I'm here to say "quit worrying about them, fix what's wrong here."

Because i find that humans are way to complacent to accept intolerable bullshit at home if the authorities can point a finger at the neighbors and say "we are better than them!"

[–]GreatestWhiteShark 0 points1 point ago

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Challenges for who exactly?

[–]tireytha 0 points1 point ago

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Concur.

[–]howaboot 2 points3 points ago

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[–]rap3point0 2 points3 points ago

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I would like to point out that the majority of people seem to immediately assume the covered women is in a culture that forces her to be covered. How do we know she does not live in a culture of freedom (i.e. America) and is willingly wearing this because of personal beliefs. They could simply be referring to religious cultures (or not religious) that exist within the society.

[–]OneKindofFolks 1 point2 points ago

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Then she is still being pressured to wear it due to the strict laws for modesty that exist within Islam.

[–]rap3point0 0 points1 point ago

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It is her choice to believe in Islam though, the larger culture permits her to change religion, only the laws of the sub-culture she chooses to follow restrict her.

[–]OneKindofFolks 0 points1 point ago

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which in its ideal format is a patriarchy (although women can be imams) whereas the ideal format of the Western world is democracy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Hmm. Just tallying the reposts- move one. This one has been on reddit frontpage at least two or three times.

[–]Travis-Touchdown 2 points3 points ago*

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"That man was accused of rape and instantly crucified despite being innocent. What a cruel, female-dominated culture!"

"That man was raped, nobody took him seriously, and now he has to pay child support for the product of that rape. What a cruel, female-dominated culture!"

[–]Nuclearkite 0 points1 point ago

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exactly

[–]Oopioppi 2 points3 points ago

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Yes, because having the option of wearing a bikini is equivalent to being forced to wear a burka or else be arrested or raped.

[–]YesIamaWizard 2 points3 points ago

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Yeah, Except the girl can remove her sunglasses without being beaten to death.

[–]Anaxarete 6 points7 points ago

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People don't wear bikinis every day. That's a very specific time/temperature/place outfit. The other is for every day, regardless of time/temperature/place.

[–]wish_upon_a_star 3 points4 points ago

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Fucking Repost. From one month ago that made the front page and another one from a month ago. You obviously thought that posting it in another subreddit would make it okay and you could reap in the karma. And unfortunately people are giving it to you.

[–]ithinktheresoneleft 10 points11 points ago

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I think this is a great cartoon. What a lot of people dont realize is many women who wear the full coverings LIKE to wear it. Yes, there of course are ones forced to wear it. But I lived in the middle east for a couple years and I found most women I met liked the hijab and full coverings. But I was in Kuwait, not Iran or Saudi.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points ago

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First off, at this point virtually everyone realizes that some women want to wear the hijab. That's been covered and explained over and over again, and everyone knows that. It's also been determined that this isn't the underlying issue, which is one of choice and the punishment for not wearing the hijab in certain places. In the US women can wear the hijab all they want. But what about women who would like to wear bikinis in Saudi Arabia?

[–]ithinktheresoneleft 2 points3 points ago

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yes. but i also think it raises a good point about how western women may judge a woman who chooses to wear the hijab. I recognize the difference in places where a woman is forced to wear it.

[–]Vl4d 2 points3 points ago

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I beg to differ. I live in a rather well educated and liberal town. I think /maybe/ one in fifty people know that. At one time, there were several women protesting, saying the hijab was a sign of oppression.

[–]Anaxarete 1 point2 points ago

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At the same time, what works there doesn't work here. Respect the etiquette of the country you're in. Also, if you've dealt with the men from their countries, you'd know there's a high harassment rate and it's probably more convenient for them to dress that way and be invisible.

[–]stabbymcguirk 11 points12 points ago

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Good thing both sides know who the "bad guy" is.

[–]skynet907 1 point2 points ago

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anyone have the cartoon of the white man in a business suit pointing at illegal aliens saying 'It's time to reclaim America from illegal immigrants!' and then the tribal next to him says 'I'll Help you pack'. ?

it's overdue for some serious repost karma-whoring.

[–]somewhon 1 point2 points ago

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I agree with the fact that neither should be forced to wear what they are wearing.

I think though we should talk about functionality..

Just about every single reddit thread I have ever read that involves even a moderately attractive women has included dozens if not hundreds of comments about masturbating to said women.

If you can't see how covering up doesn't serve a function, then you're probably just mad you don't have more material to jerk to.

[–]epistemology 1 point2 points ago

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Both right.

[–]frank_fukiyama5 1 point2 points ago

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false equivalency.

[assuming that the cartoon suggests that (1) both cultures are equally male-dominated and (2) that there are two distinct/definable cultures, each represented by the woman on the left/right respectively]

to actually make a coherent comparison, one would have to define what it meant to be male-dominated, what would count as evidence of such domination, the nature of the facts/evidence to be compared, and what it would mean for one to be greater or lesser than the other.

this is just a suspicion though, i could be wrong (i usually am... but hopefully through continual refinement one could eventually approach something resembling a reasonable argument/conclusion).

bottom line: this cartoon seems a gross oversimplification (i.e. simplified in such a way that accuracy is sacrificed).

[–]Bobic2 1 point2 points ago

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I've seen this fucking joke three times

[–]TheJackofAllTrades 1 point2 points ago

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At the end of the day there's no punishment for wearing islamic clothing here but women have been known to get punished over there for doing the opposite.

[–]XjCrazy09 5 points6 points ago

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Oh for Fucks sake... I have never gotten angry about repost... but this is getting god Damn ridiculous

[–]wish_upon_a_star 0 points1 point ago

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No shit. I felt the same fucking way. Thank goodness this thread has gone down quite a bit since the last time I checked it. I posted links to two different times this post was submitted.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago*

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Ok, assuming both are unhealthy for the women (some would argue it but let's just assume). There is still a very big difference or two. Maybe they should have focused on the covering over the mouth rather than the eyes.

The ability to have a dialogue about the ideas, even the entrenched ideas, that are harmful to girls/women is important. In talking about it, we can decide not to buy it, believe it, try to change those ideas socially or personally.

Religious rules are more rigid, when people believe that the right and wrong ways of doing things are given authority by virtue of being the 'word of god' etc (religious texts) then they do not change easily.

So, the bikini clad woman would, in my view, have many more venues and opportunities to change or get away from oppressive ideas.

(edited because I do that).

[–]sathed 3 points4 points ago

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Seriously? This has been reposted over and over again.

[–]DoesNotTalkMuch 2 points3 points ago*

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Nothing defines feminism like getting stoned to death for being raped

...was the top comment last time. With the higher scoring reply:

Nothing defines "patriarchy" like men being raped to death for getting stoned

MY comment on that post was a parodically loquacious spiel that boiled down to "I like how the girl on the right is modest, but I don't think anyone should be pressured to wear a burka."

[–]sltkr 0 points1 point ago

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I think you mean "spiel".

[–]Datastream 1 point2 points ago

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The comic is wrong. That babe controls men with her body.

[–]Backupusername 1 point2 points ago

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I don't remember the top comment from the last time this was posted word-for-word, but it was something like this:

Yeah, except that that's bullshit. The woman in the burqa is forced to wear it by her country's religious and political laws, and if she didn't wear it, she'd probably be killed, at best. The woman in the bikini, however, chooses to wear it, just like any other woman in our society can wear just about anything she wants.

[–]non00b 1 point2 points ago

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It's not the fact that this is a repost that bothers me, it's the fact that it just isn't accurate.

The women in the bikini is not forced to dress that way at threat of violence, while many Muslim women are. Seriously, fuck fundamentalism.

[–]karmindersk 1 point2 points ago

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Repost

[–]punkrockmcduck 0 points1 point ago

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Funny thing is that they're both right...

[–]hypmoden 0 points1 point ago

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except our women have a choice

[–]LazyVisionary 0 points1 point ago

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I am in Saudi Arabia and I testify to this point of view.

[–]ducttape36 0 points1 point ago

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message of this comic: no matter what women do, they do it because of men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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MY TIME MACHINE WORKED! I'VE TRAVELED BACK TO WHEN THIS WAS FIRST POSTED!!!

[–]s1rpsych0s3xy 0 points1 point ago

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look at who wins

[–]dhvl2712 0 points1 point ago

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I don't think the woman on the left will think that the West is a male dominated culture.

[–]thegrinninglemur 0 points1 point ago

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this re-post was just as self-righteously inaccurate the last seven times.

[–]mrzack -2 points-1 points ago

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it's not men, dont fall for the trick of pitting men against women. it's religion. religion is a tool used by the elites to control the sheeple, and to divide and conquer the masses pitting them against one another while the real culprits run away with your livelihood and hard earned money and future while keeping your more enslaved.

[–]auchris 0 points1 point ago

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So it was religion in the bikini?

[–]guggabump 0 points1 point ago

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Repost-dominated cultures

[–]embracepluralism 0 points1 point ago

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How many times in my life will I have to see this image. I've seen in as a cartoon, as a drawing, as a photo of real people. This isn't just a reddit repost, my whole life keeps reposting this image. Ugh. It was an extraordinary and poignant point the first time I saw it back in 1999.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I expected a Google+ reference.

[–]dying_to_poop 0 points1 point ago

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suck it. that is all

[–]grandplans 0 points1 point ago

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First time I have seen it.

Interesting perspective.

[–]EvoEpitaph 0 points1 point ago

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Free choice on the left, not so free choice on the right. Kind of defeats the purpose of what this political cartoon is going for.

[–]keeekeeess 0 points1 point ago

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Except that in the first picture, the woman chooses to be like that. In the second one, she will be stoned to death if she wears a bikini.

[–]pumapunk359 0 points1 point ago

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It doesn't matter how many times it's reposted, i will always love, respect, up-vote this comic.

[–]iceman21 -1 points0 points ago

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The difference is one is forced to wear that crap.

[–]iceman21 0 points1 point ago

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Since you down-voted me would you tell me what the consequences for not wearing religious garments out in public would be for that woman, because I am pretty sure she would be brutalized for it.

[–]SmokeyTheRobot -1 points0 points ago

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Fourth time I've seen this posted. Stop. We get it.