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Science and Religion Alone in a Dark Room. (imgur.com)
submitted 1 year ago by Spiff90
[–]SadPig 234 points235 points236 points 1 year ago
I WISH that switching on the lights would convince people that their belief is crap. I think it is more likely that the last retort of religion would be "Dragons are invisible, you cretin!".
[–][deleted] 1 year ago
[deleted]
[–]middlewest 61 points62 points63 points 1 year ago
The dragons are in a non-overlapping magisterium. Dragnosticism is the only sensible philosophy.
[–]onionhammer 58 points59 points60 points 1 year ago
If you don't believe in dragons, where do you get your morality?
[–]Ishmael999 23 points24 points25 points 1 year ago
This is the most valid argument I've heard in a long time.
[–]philosoraptocopter 26 points27 points28 points 1 year ago
Dragnosticism
I think something beautiful has been born this day.
[–]NOACeulemans 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago
Sounds like agnosticism in drag, to be honest. :P
[–]middlewest 12 points13 points14 points 1 year ago
agnosticism in drag
RuPaul could be a man or a woman, we have no way of knowing.
[–]aeontorpor 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
Schrödinger's hooker?
[–]GiantSquidd 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Oh yeah. I hear Schrodinger loved the whores. ...or he didn't...
[–]IConrad 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I believe it was Socrates that said that the unexamined underpants region was not worth touching.
[–]philosoraptocopter 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Haha, didn't think of it that way. But it reminds of one asshole I used to know, who called it fagnosticism
[–]Jenu1 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Dracotheism: The belief that god is a dragon who will BURN YOUR SHIT UP unless you feed him the damn virgin princess you filthy mortal
[–]philosoraptocopter 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
The last line should be something like: "Uh... I meant uhhh... Dragons are beyond our comprehension. Why are you so hateful and narrow-minded?"
[–]DingDongSeven 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Where's the missing link? No, not that one — the link between THAT, and monkeys .
[–]GiantSquidd 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
CROCODUCK!
[–]wastelander 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
You must have FAITH that there are dragons! If the dragons revealed themselves, then everyone would believe in them, then how would we be able to tell the good people from the bad?
[–]SadPig 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
By the holy dragon, you are right! Only those who believe without a shred of evidence will be saved. You guys are so screwed.
[–]davidreiss666 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Not just invisible. But undetectable in every way. But they are still going to eat us. Just not now. Maybe in an hour, or a day or a year..... they are planning to eat us. But it never happens.
[–]SadPig 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Beware 2012! You have been warned! Or possibly 2013.
For sure, by 2014. Right?
[–]rocker5743 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
mayans weren't around with flashlights silly!
[–]goldegl 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
We better pray to them so they will transport us to their homeworld and we will live in happiness forever... at some point...
[–]CBJamo -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
upvote for use of "cretin"
[–]CBJamo -4 points-3 points-2 points 1 year ago
[–]Waybye 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago
In the final panel, religion should say 'They're invisible.' Only then would it be a true representation.
[–]whiteshark761 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I could swear that the last time I saw this comic, that was the punchline.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Or he could just murder the scientist for heresy and flip the light off again.
[–]aero_eng 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Where is the backpack?
[–]s00ngtype 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
In science's shadow.
[–]TheMiking -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
came here to write this. an upvote for you.
[–]Aurlon 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago
Relevant:
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jcosta3/article_dragon.htm
[–]VulcanJaded 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
This is what came to mind while reading this as well. For those of you who haven't read the link yet (or clicked on it even), it's a excerpt from Carl Sagan's The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.
[–]EricTboneJackson 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
To go with upvote: if you haven't read this, do so. If you haven't read the book, you'd probably enjoy that, too.
[–]OriginalBrand 27 points28 points29 points 1 year ago
This shit is ancient for your information. I'll contribute to the beginning of a string of repost comments.
[–]Homo_sapiens 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Somebody should link to the best discussion it's begotten in the past.
[–]OriginalBrand 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
This one might turn into the most popular post of it. Fucking 640 upvotes.
[–]joebobfrank[] 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Well I've seen this one reposted and reach the front page (my front page, to be fair) 2 other times in the past 3 months.
[–]OriginalBrand 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yeah, I've seen them front page(and mine as well)three or four times since I joined minimum. Atheism front page is easy to get though considering downvote trolls.
[–]Warrior21 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
I'll give my upboat to you for having a memory.
[–]StrangerLoop 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
It's baffling how such an obvious repost can get so many upvotes. (inb4 circlejerk)
[–]Eryemil -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Fuck off.
[–]roscos 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
i didnt know that the light from a flashlight could kill a dragon
[–]overthrow23 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
"The candle flame gutters. Its little pool of light trembles. Darkness gathers. The demons begin to stir."
[–]jrh1984 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark should be compulsory reading.
[–]krazbobeans 30 points31 points32 points 1 year ago
Yea I know religion is bullshit but it's not THIS black and white.
[–]AluminumFalcon3 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Upvoted because science isn't as easy as flicking on the lights.
[–]terriblehuman 15 points16 points17 points 1 year ago
no, but it's a decent metaphor.
[–]DragoneyeIIVX 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago*
How so? Religion deals quite a bit with metaphysical (may not be the appropriate word here) stuff - religion would be saying what was going on outside the room. If the statement was, "Hey, there are dragons outside! If you don't do what they tell you do, when you step out, you'll be burned and tortured!"
Science doesn't have direct or completely objective answers to the truth. It fusses around until it comes up with something people can't prove wrong. Religion works with things that are generally unfalsifiable. To go back to the above metaphor, science would listen to the outside, feel the door for heat, and so on - then make a reasonable and educated predicament about what is most likely going on outside.
Edit: Someone -> Something fix.
[–]Ishmael999 12 points13 points14 points 1 year ago
Historically, religion has dealt with many falsifiable things, and it still does today. Ask an evangelical if prayer actively improves lives and cures illnesses.
[–]LogicalTime 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Christianity used to deal much more with the physical. Saying everything revolved around the earth, psychological disorders were caused by demons, etc.
Some of the current discourse touches on: evolution, whether fertilized human ova have "souls", and whether homosexuals are causing natural disasters or not.
[–]webmonk 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago
They deal with something until their position is falsified, then they move on to another. God of the gaps deal.
[–]LogicalTime 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
yep yep
[–]wilywampa 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Lots of Christians still believe psychological disorders are caused by demons. Exorcisms are still sanctioned by the Catholic church.
[–]LogicalTime 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
yep and pastors in Africa label people as witches and encourage people to burn them as witches: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33356826/ns/world_news-africa/
[–]Ishmael999 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yeah, and of the things you listed, I think only whether ova have "souls" is unfalsifiable. The other things are just incorrect.
yep, but that seems to be where the mainstream discourse is.
[–]EncasedMeats 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
religion would be making shit up about what was going on outside the room
[–]DarkcoderUK 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
It fusses around until it comes up with someone people can't prove wrong. Religion works with things that are generally unfalsifiable
What.
All scientific models must be falsifiable, else it's not science.
[–]DragoneyeIIVX 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I'm not sure exactly your issue? Also, that should be "Something" - not "Someone" derp.
Now, science approaches its work with the assuming that what it is thinking is right. Not with the necessity that it is right, but the hope that it is right. If it is proven wrong, no issue, that's part of science.
Religion says "God did it, and that's that."
I was pointing out the contradiction in what you said. You say that science fusses around until it finds something people can't prove wrong(aka unfalsifiable), then directly after this state that religion works with things that are generally unfalsifiable.
Perhaps you meant to say something like: Science observes facts of nature and then draws conclusions, while religion has conclusions and then ignores facts.
[–]DragoneyeIIVX -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
can't prove wrong(aka unfalsifiable)
Not a contradiction. No one could prove that the world wasn't flat for a long time, but that didn't make it unfalsifiable. Science is about finding the best answers we can possibly come up with, with best meaning "No one can give a better account of things than this." That doesn't mean they are necessarily true.
[–]SadPig 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Upvote for uncommon common sense.
[–]narfman287 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
came here to say the same thing, it really isn't THAT simplistic
[–]BeestMode -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Yeah, is this supposed to be implying that science can disprove God's existence? Cause last I checked, that paper hasn't been published yet.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
whaaaaaat? you can't speak like that here, I upvote only to defend you against the incoming attacks
[–]webmonk 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I'm sure you know, but for the sake of those who do not... You do not set out to prove non-existance. Lack of evidence is sufficient enough for not believing in something.
[–]BeestMode 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Actually, I was under the impression that lack of evidence made something a hypothesis, which you couldn't hold to be true, but you could guess one way or the other. Assuming you're talking from a statistics background here, not getting an p-value less than your alpha value, simply means you can't prove your hypothesis to be true, not that it must be false.
I guess what it comes down to is the difference between having no obligation to believe in something, and being obligated not to believe in something. We can show there's no proof for religion, but we can't prove it doesn't exist either.
(That had me stumped for a while though, very good argument)
A hypothesis is testable and a good one is falsifiable too. Plus it would be on a much smaller scale (testing one little bit at a time.)
I would love to see the religious crowd come up with some. ;)
Yeah haha, i don't see many Christians worrying about statistical truths to justify their views
[–]ivorjawa 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Oh, man. I'd give just about anything for a few minutes in a dark room with Religion.
whap whap whap thud
[–]stoptherobots 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
This is just like the introduction I did for my science classes during my student teaching, I had a whole speech about how science is like a flashlight in a dark room. I made the room as dark as possible, and I would ask questions like "Where did the moon come from" or "What is lightning" and shine my flashlight on posters that had the answers. Where before there was darkness and uncertainty, now there is light and knowledge.
It's was one of my favorite things to do, and I look forward to doing it when I get my own classroom.
[–]bloog 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Dragons don't have to be scaly flying things. Think about it... This room is dragons. Everything is dragons! You can't tell me how I have to interpret dragons.
[–]wingspantt 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
The only problem with this analogy is that there is no light to turn on to prove God doesn't exist.
weeellll... no light for the existence of god exactly, but plenty of things that were claimed to be done by god have been shown to be explainable by other means.
Edit: but you make a very valid point.
[–]wingspantt 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Are you just saying that, or do you actually have a definition of "irony" in your head that somehow makes sense here?
[–]isacdan 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Is is ok if I just repost this next week and get a shitton of karma too?
[–]n4rc071x 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
This is the 100th repost and it still made me smile.
[–]Rads 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
religion seems like a real dick
[–]theturbolemming 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
An entertaining comic, no doubt, but I think there is an extremely importance clarification to be made: religion is rarely used as an intentional way to deceive people; at least, I'd argue that's the case with most large organized religions.
[–]Spiff90[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Don't know the original source, just found it floating around on the interwebs.
dude i remember seeing this a loong time ago on XKCD, tried finding it again there..couldn't. This is a mimic of the original; the original was shorter, didn't say "hi my name is Religion" but had the same exact meaning behind it :)
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 1 year ago*
XKCD! http://xkcd.com/
Edit: Upon closer inspection, these stick figures aren't the stick figures I thought they were.
[–]Kzone272 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
These aren't the stick figures you're looking for.
FTFY
[–]pgomez 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Holy shit today's comic is heavy. Did not expect this, I'll be slicing the onions for a while.
[–]itsjareds 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Wow, had to read it quite a few times to understand it correctly. I'm with you. ಥ_ಥ
[–]conorreid 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
I want to upvote this a million times.
[–]sebnukem 25 points26 points27 points 1 year ago
Is it because we've seen it a million time already?
[–]danxmason 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
It gets better every time
Then Science beats Religion to death with the flashlight, cannibalizes him, but still inevitably starves in the sealed chamber.
[–]EncasedMeats 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
You can't escape the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Fuck you, science!
A thermodynamic must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law?
[–]EncasedMeats 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
The first law of Thermodynamics is you don't talk about Thermodynamics?
[–]Weeabo0 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I just lost
[–]MightyLucifer 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
The Dragons probably don't have time for Religions crap.
I know I don't.
[–]amgtfy 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
To be accurate, the guy on the right should be wearing a pink sleeping mask.
[–]davidsmeaton 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
this would actually be appropriate ... once the light is turned on, the religious dude would still see only darkness, allowing him to ignore reality and accept his way of thinking - regardless of fact.
[–]4InchesOfury 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Next frame "Oh poo you made the dragons disappear with your light. Turn it off and they'll come back!
[–]CowFu 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
You mean the invisible dragons? they never left. The only way to appease them is for you to believe and worship them.
[–]TheWolfofMibu 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Obviously the dragons are invisible.
[–]sge_fan 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
If you cannot see the dragons then you are going to burn in hell for eternity. Oh, and by the way, the dragons love you.
This is so full of awesome. Upvoted.
Dragons work in mysterious ways.
[–]Nardageddon 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
"They're invisible dragons."
[–]original_4degrees 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
oohhh religion IS the dragon.
[–]skripklubbin 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
It aint no sin to go to the skripkluub
[–]powercow 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
if you dont see the dragons, you are not believing hard enough, believe HARDER DAMN YOU!
[–]ArchAuthor 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Wow. Thank you for finding this. This was the comic that convinced me that becoming an atheist was the right decision.
I haven't seen this in ages.
[–]pgomez 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
ENHANCE
[–]DrPeppehr 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
This is the easiest way to explain the conflict between religion and science to people. I will definitely show this to people.
[–]corgonin 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I think it would've been better if the last panel had some kind of twist, like the religion guy jacking off with a dildo or something.
[–]Willis13579 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Religion and science- mutually exclusive on r/atheism.
[–]Margot23 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Only we don't say "haha, are you serious? That's bullshit!" We say "well, there isn't actually any evidence of dragons!"
[–]asshaberdashery 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Much as I love science, and am a fan of atheism, I feel obligated to point out that there is no conceivable way for science to disprove the existence of hell, or demons, or ghosts etc. It can deal with superstitions, and belief in things that can influence the world, (though a thorough understanding of statistics may be required), but it can never touch the core issues.
Also, though this may not be the time or the place, I'd like to suggest a little bit more empathy for the non-atheists of the world - you'll never get people to leave the comfortable majority camp by mocking and disrespecting people.
[–]webmonk 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Actually, ridicule is an extremely powerful motivator. It's the next best thing to the main tools of religion - guilt and violence.
Ridicule can be extremely effective in the short term, but if effectiveness were the only criterion, we would be advocating more guilt and violence to get more people to join our "tribe", and we would be no different.
[–]scottlawson 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Where are the dragons?
They are invisible
But I don't detect any heat signatures
Thats because they are cold blooded
That doesnt make any sense
It makes enough sense
(gun shots)
[–]triel187 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Religious person: "Well, actually the dragons just left. You see, they were here just a second before you turned on the light. The left, so they could teach you about faith.
Science person: "That's cool, but they left zero evidence of their being here?"
Religious person: "Exactly"
Science person: "Lack of evidence is not evidence."
Religious person: "I just spoke to the dragons and they are willing to come back if you turn off the light.............."
[–]wckb 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
DUDE, i know how to reap INFINITE KARMA.
Step one, make a novelty account.
Step two, every day post a different atheist picture than has been on the internet for 800 years, and has been posted on /r/atheism 100 million times.
step three, teach monkeys to joust.
step four, KARMAAAAAAAAAAAa
[–]NobodyFsWithTheJesus 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I get it, the light is symbolic of common sense.
but...dragons are awesome.... :(
[–]molierecoder777 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
First rule of religion : never talk about the origins of the dragons.
[–]nauscopy 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I want to add one more panel where religion says, "You just lack the faith to see the dragons that I know are there."
Instead of "Fuck you", religion should be saying "the dragons are metaphorical" in the last panel.
This wouldn't change shit for the same reason the rapture not happening in 1994 didn't stop that crazy radio preacher from predicting it AGAIN for May 21, 2011... Today's theist wouldn't say "fuck you" he'd say they're "invisible dragons"...
[–]makesureimjewish 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
oldie but goodie
[–]trevorfiasco 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Awesome concept, it's funny and very apt. I think the analogy could be taken further if the lights remained off, and Science just started feeling his way around and drawing conclusions about what was actually in the room based on what he could touch, reporting his findings to Religion, while Religion continues to maintain that there are dragons.
[–]mrsnakers 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Sometimes I feel like religion isn't exactly the enemy but more repression and fear itself. Why don't we devote our lives to trying to eliminate fear, especially of the self, instead of focusing on religion? It's practically dead anyway.
[–]SadPig 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
The sad fact is that humans like (need?) to believe in stuff. If it's not religion it will be something else, possibly something even more stupid. Like say... some political philosophy or the phonics method of learning to read. I don't mean those things are stupid per se, just that I see people will tend to behave like they were religion and have huge pointless fights.
[–]rmeddy 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago*
Sadly, the problem goes deeper than this, even if you turn on the light they'll claim it's the wrong hue and frequency for seeing dragons and believing in dragons would be properly basic
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago
Oh, I get it. Science is right and religion is wrong. Almost went over my head with that one.
[–]EricTboneJackson 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
No, it's that religion thrives in darkness, and that science drives it back into the shadows.
What does religion have left? It used to "explain" everything; flood, famine, crop health, weather, the Sun, the Moon, sickness, death, volcanoes, thunder, rainbows, so on and so forth, ad infinitum.
We now know all these things and more have perfectly natural explanations, and we've yet to find even a single phenomenon that appears inexplicable in terms of ordinary natural processes.
All those previous gods? Revealed be phantoms of the imagination. Have theists learned anything from this? Of course not. The just find new shadows for phantoms to reside in. Pretty much all they have left these days is what caused the Big Bang, or the laws of physics themselves. The god of the gaps is finding the gap smaller and smaller each day.
[–]frequencyfreak -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
*realizing this is r/atheism
Bullshit. Science and Religion are not enemies. NOT ENEMIES!
Science is the search for Truth and it will lead to the proof of God. Holy texts from ALL religions contain symbolism that fits with modern scientific knowledge.
It is my position that religion exists solely to allow an unedited version of past knowledge to exist so that when we, as children, mature enough through science to see its Truth, we can equate them as One.
God will be proven.
Also, dragons.
[–]frequencyfreak -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
You're about as ready for the existence of dragons are you are of God.
[–]Caulfield_Holden 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Your point?
It's the hipster approach to god (and dragons.) "Science is so mainstream... I totally believed in things before there was evidence."
Science and Religion are not enemies. NOT ENEMIES!
They are diametrically opposed.
Science is a process for vetting ideas, for putting claims under a microsope, finding holes in our understanding, it requires skepticism and critical thinking, it thrives on the open exchange of ideas and is driving by deliberate attempts to falsify existing knowledge, to uncover bad ideas and replacing them with better ones.
Religion is a method for preserving ideas as dogma, for venerating them as unchangeable, it thrives on credulity, on faith, it invented concepts like 'blasphemy' and 'heresy' and 'apostasy' where ideas are not allowed to be questioned, and historically to do so was punishable by death.
The completely opposite approaches to truth seeking have produced completely opposite results. Religions are fractured into literally hundreds of thousands of different belief systems (there are 38,000+ Christian sects along, and many thousands of other religions), it has to date produced no verifiable knowledge. Nothing. Zilch. In the meantime, science is producing an exponential explosion of verifiable knowledge, which has been leveraged into technologies that have transformed the planet. You own your lifestyle, and virtually everything you know about the world around you, to science.
[–]Caulfield_Holden 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
You are starting with the assumption that god exists. That's not how science works.
[–]Rice_Daddy -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Does this mean that science guy will be the first ones to die in a horror movie?
[–]HeezyB -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
God cannot be seen in this realm according to the bible is all I am saying.
Reread Genesis.
[–]HeezyB -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago
I'm pretty sure I've read it more and in more depth than an atheist.
[–]EncasedMeats 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I've only read R. Crumb's version but there are lots of pictures of JHVH in there.
Did you read the part where he has face to face chats with Adam? And when he confronts them in person about the apple?
[–]yellowstone10 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
If God interacts with the natural world, then science can investigate those interactions. If God does not interact with the natural world, then he can have no possible effect on us, and as such is entirely irrelevant.
[–]HeezyB 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
until your dead.
[–]Dermit15 -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago
Because that's realistic.
[–]Workaphobia -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 year ago
This comic illustrates how you can say anything you like when your presentation is witty and clever. Specifically, it demonstrates this by doing the converse.
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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