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Scumbag protesters (i.imgur.com)
submitted 1 year ago by b0tfly
[–]dekesler 184 points185 points186 points 1 year ago
Let's refrain from calling them protesters or demonstrators. I support free speech. I even support most forms of civil disobedience. I don’t always agree with those who protest or demonstrate, but I respect their right to freely express themselves. I even respect their willingness to break certain laws in order to ensure that their message is heard. After all, history has shown that protests that actively disrupt other people’s lives are the most effective.
Nevertheless, the killers who engaged in acts of senseless brutality against United Nations workers were neither protestors nor demonstrators. They are killers, nothing more than sick animals that attack and kill their own kind.
I find this whole sordid affair repugnant. One group with their Iron Age beliefs in Florida enacts a magic fire ritual that offends the Iron Age beliefs of another group in Afghanistan. As a result, human beings involved with neither group are barbarically slain. To be certain, the throwbacks that killed their fellow human beings in Afghanistan have committed a far greater atrocity than the book burners in Florida; nevertheless, both parties have acted on behalf of the same supernatural entity that they obviously don’t trust enough to resolve the conflict either here or in the afterlife. Seriously, if your god can’t dispense revenge to those it finds offensive, then you need to worship another god.
[–]cchase 92 points93 points94 points 1 year ago
Or just give up your belief in god.
[–]designerutah 20 points21 points22 points 1 year ago
"We don't have time for rational solutions."
-George Carlin
[–]SHFT 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
sounds a lot like the place that I work.
[–]verbose_gent 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago*
You seem decent, but somehow don't understand what Afghanistan is. You're talking about it like it happened in Montana or something. This is a different culture and they look at all the white people as occupiers. You probably would too if you were them.
Yeah, they're living in the fucking Iron Age with illiteracy running around 90%. How do you think they even heard about this pastor in Florida? Who do you explained to them that Florida was in the US? Do you think that they knew the distinction between the U.N. and the U.S.?
They are killers, nothing more than sick animals that attack and kill their own kind.
You are financing the deaths of tons of their citizens with your payroll taxes, personally. What are any of them doing to hurt you, dekesler? You talk about them breaking laws, but in their culture, what they did was enforce the law.
This isn't happening in Texas. Things are different. We need to be asking who is stoking the fire over there. Most afghans don't even know about 911. They have no idea why we're there, but somehow they know about a guy in Florida?
[–][deleted] 67 points68 points69 points 1 year ago
The local mullah told them at the mosque.
[–]praseodymium 15 points16 points17 points 1 year ago*
Well that mullah obviously has the best interests of his people at heart. Edit: Sarcasm
[–]dossier 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I will never understand justifying death in any form, besides immediate self defense. Unless you're being sarcastic heh
[–]radiantwave 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
religious leader, burns a book to entice anger. other religious leader whips up his followers to spark killings. govt retaliates "protecting" their people killing more...???... Holy war...
F- Religion F- Politicians F- Cable News
At some point the world needs to realize those in charge want to have the masses fighting themselves because it distracts from the fact that those in charge are the real pricks you should be fighting.
They do not speak for a Benevolent GOD They do not speak for their constituents They do not inform us for our own good...
You are your own good you make your own choices You are the ones who hold the real power
you can be wielded or you can or you can stand up and say "Enough!"
It has always been your choice.
[–]secretDissident 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
This is the Internet. You can say "fuck" and no one will care.
[–]pgomez 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I thought he was trying to grade them. lol.
[–]verbose_gent 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I think critical thinking skills have dwindled to a point in this country that we've just become an ouroboros. People are literally unable to exercise even a little bit of logic.
[–]Basilides 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
those in charge are the real pricks you should be fighting.
And if we do manage to replace the old pricks it'll be...
"Meet the new pricks, same as the old pricks."
[–]Zandt88 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Indeed, we just watched that one unfold.
[–]dekesler 34 points35 points36 points 1 year ago*
You seem to be suggesting that I should attempt to understand the culture of Afghanistan. Culture be damned, verbose_gent. It matters not if these atrocities occurred in Montana or Afghanistan or Oz, there is no context in which the actions undertaken by the murders suddenly become acceptable. If Afghanistan’s religiously based culture tolerates and encourages this sort of bloodshed, then their culture is demonstrably inferior. I have neither empathy nor sympathy for those who kill in response to the destruction of a mere book.
Do you seriously want to contend that these killers were upholding some sort of law? Where in the Quran does it say to kill the United Nations worker in Afghanistan if you can’t actually get to Florida to kill the person that burned the Quran? If there is such a law, it is a vile and unacceptable law that should be universally condemned. It certainly should not be respected by anyone with any sense of decency or morality.
You suggest that I would do what they are doing if I was them. I suppose that is true. Likewise, they would be doing what I am doing if they were me. Furthermore, you would be wearing a skirt and ice skating if you were Shizuka Arakawa. How is speculating on what I would do if I were an Islamic demonstrator in Afghanistan helpful? I do not think that this is helpful.
You suggest that the killers don’t know the difference between the United Nations and the United States. I know that if I was compelled to murder on behalf of some vengeful yet ridiculously impotent god, I would make damn sure I was killing the right person. After all, we are talking about a god that sends killers after you if you offend him. Ultimately, I am not responsible for the either the ignorance or the gullibility of these people.
I am cognizant of the fact that Afghanistan was invaded by a foreign military. I am aware that my taxes are going toward the U.S. Military. I also realize that thousands have died as a result of the military I am supporting. It does not matter that I actively opposed such military action; as a U.S. citizen must bear a measure of responsibility for those deaths.
If you wish to talk about the U.S. military’s role in Afghanistan, we can have that conversation. That would have to be a separate conversation, because it is not germane to the matter at hand.
We are not talking about a group of Afghanistan citizens who rose up and attacked U.S. military personal because they wanted to drive out foreign invaders. We are talking about a group that murdered an unaffiliated third party because they couldn’t readily get to the person they wanted to kill.
[–]fedja 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
there is no context in which the actions undertaken by the murders suddenly become acceptable
I don't want to assume too much about you, but one thing is clear. You've never looked at a foreign tank outside your home's window. You've never had foreign soldiers kick in your door and drag your uncle out of the house. You've never had to tell your sobbing aunt it'll be ok even though you both knew he wouldn't come home again.
Once you've lived through that, you'll understand. You'll understand how any foreigner working for the occupiers in your town is as guilty as those soldiers. You'll understand how the line blurs when you look at these foreigners, and all you can think of is pulling your little cousin out of the rubble of a bombed building.
Scratch that, I hope you never understand. Not having lived through shit like that, your mind and spirit still manage to be rational and objective. You lack the invisible wounds that never stop bleeding, the personal experience of horror that never goes away, not even for a minute.
Sincerely, someone who has seen war first hand as a civilian.
[–]dekesler 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I am sincerely sorry that you were placed in a position where you were violated like this. I really am. I was one of the Americans that advocated for nothing more than surgical strikes against terrorists training facilities within Afghanistan. I did not support the invasion of Afghanistan. Furthermore, I recognize that this distinction is only important to my own conscience. I still must bear responsibility and guilt for the actions of my nation’s armed forces. Regardless, that is not what we are talking about here.
I can appreciate that the lines can become blurred. The U.N. Workers are supporting and working with the U.S. Soldiers. The U.S. Soldiers come from the same country where a person ceremonially destroyed a Quran. However, it is still unacceptable. There is a clear distinction between these peoples.
Consider this. There are those here in the U.S.A. who makes no distinction between different groups of Islamic people. Their minds can’t grasp the idea that the patriotic American Muslims who worked and died in the World Trade Center were also victims of a group of extremist Muslims from Saudi Arabia. There is a distinction, but they don’t see it.
I am an American citizen. Regardless, I don’t simply accept the stupidity of my fellow countryman as being part of their culture. I openly condemn this lumping of people together as dangerously wrong headed. Just as I find this sort of thinking unacceptable from my fellow Americans, I find it unacceptable for an Afghan.
Furthermore, you are saying that there is no differentiation in the minds of the Afghan people. You are claiming that all of the people who survived what you survived think exactly as you think; however, I am willing to bet that not all the people of Afghanistan are unable to distinguish between the actions of a U.S. civilian in Florida and official U.N. policy.
There is much you and I agree upon. However, killing someone because of the actions of an unaffiliated third party will never be acceptable. For that matter, it will never be acceptable to kill someone over the burning of a book. Now that I think about, I don’t know if it is ever acceptable to kill another human being.
[–]fedja 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Oh, I totally agree that there should be no tolerance for murder regardless of who commits it. However, there are clear extenuating circumstances at play.
One of them is the poor state of education in Afghanistan. If 80% or more of the people are not literate, and most have never seen a world map, they have trouble distinguishing between the different countries in the West. This is why it's so easy to confuse the UN mission with the soldiers who carry out midnight raids.
Secondly, when you've been occupied by a foreign army for years, the resentment you feel clouds reason. Surely, not every one of them feels that way, and I assume a minority of the local population even took part in the riot. However, the hate felt by those that did is a product of their environment, an environment that was forced upon them.
I've seen the tragedies of the genocidal Balkan wars from up close, and had family on both sides of that conflict. When the people are swept up in the terror of war, their minds retreat to a base distinction of friend vs. foe. Their minds simply cannot comprehend that their enemy is anything but a homogeneous collective. As an example, try to imagine an upstanding moral and honourable SS officer in the Auschwitz extermination camp. Your mind just bluescreens and refuses to accept the concept, even though you weren't even a prisoner.
The rage we feel at these events is justified. This isn't how the world is supposed to work. However, I cringe whenever I see the masses pile on to condemn the explosion of passions in one area. Every time we do that, we're one step further from acknowledging the fact that it was us who set the groundwork for this tragedy. In doing that, we're also two steps further from preventing such tragedies in the future.
[–]dekesler 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Fedja, I think we agree more than we disagree. We agree that murder is not acceptable. We agree that education would resolve many of these types of issues around the globe. I’ll even agree that being in a conflict alters your perceptions.
I don’t agree with your honorable SS at Auschwitz analogy. After all, the SS were very good at weeding out those who were not sympathetic to their mission. Furthermore, why is an honorable man at Auschwitz working with the Germans?
A better analogy might be someone like Rommel who was a brilliant tactician who is regarded as humane and honorable. He ignored orders to kill Jewish soldiers and civilians in all theaters of his command. But I digress.
The big point where you and I disagree is in our willingness to condemn. Regardless of nationality or race, those who kill for their god should be condemned. One can condemn the delusions of the religious zealot while acknowledging ones own role in this conflict.
To restate my position, the U.S.A. is far from innocent in the conflicts in the Middle East; regardless, that still does not allow one to kill in defense of a book.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yes, war sucks. Guess you shouldn't harbor terrorists that end up flying planes into our buildings, and then we wouldn't have to invade you, mmkay?
[–]fedja 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
The people of Afghanistan are no more guilty of harbouring terrorists than you are of harbouring soldiers who hunted civilians for sport and took their fingers home as souvenirs.
Care to cite your sources? That line reeks of utter bullshit.
Here you go.
[–]Susan5Foster 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago
but in their culture, what they did was enforce the law
Enforcing the law may involve hunting down pastor terry jones and showing him the Wrath of Allah but all these assholes did was go on a killing spree in the local foodbank.
[–]yourdadsbff 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Wrong. Most Afghans in the provinces where Taliban control is the tightest are unaware of the 9/11 attacks. Your average Kabul citizen, on the other hand, probably has at least a rudimentary understanding of the difference between the UN and the US (or, at least, between the UN and the US-led armed forces in the country).
You're right in that there's a culture gap here, and many Afghanis are outraged that the Koran-burning pastor has yet to be punished; living in the US, it's easy to forget that "free speech" as we interpret it is not as strong a principle in other parts of the world.
But don't paint the majority of Afghanis as barbaric, violence-loving zealots. That's unfair, insulting, and ignorant. The mosque preachers who provoked the violent riots did not act on behalf of "the majority." They used religious manipulation to incite aggression, not unlike what Terry Jones did himself.
Just because many Afghanistan citizens understand, empathize with, and agree with the violent rioters' source of anger doesn't mean they condone the kind of mob violence that leads to civilian deaths.
There's a big difference between principle and practice, and it seems like you're excusing the latter when we really need to be focusing on trying to understand the former.
[–]verbose_gent 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I'm not excusing anything. I'm really not. I would urge you to read where I've responded all over this thread. I'll go ahead and concede that I'm talking about the country in broad terms, because I don't understand the population density there- because I'm being honest.
What I'm speaking against here is the attitude that these people are just as informed as we are and base their decision on our perspective and weighed with our values. I'm saying we're different. I didn't say anyone was right or anyone was wrong- just that people should make the effort to try to see how the situation looks (over the past 20 years) through their eyes.
[–]yourdadsbff 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Well I agree with your second paragraph, except for the "just as informed as we are" part. I don't know how much that's true of the population as a whole. But yeah, there's definitely an entirely different worldview and set of values in that part of the world, as compared to Amurr'ka.
I think both Terry Jones and the violent Afghani rioters were wrong in their actions.
I do too. I just didn't say it.
The right to free speech and expectation that humanitarian workers won't be killed for the actions of an unaffiliated wacko aren't "our values". There are moral baselines we have to accept as a functioning and civil society. Those are two of them.
What about the schools for girls burned down as a "response" to the actions of Terry Jones? That has NOTHING to do with the west, the oppressor or the occupier. This is simply an excuse for barbaric catharsis.
I mean this sincerely: I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I know what you've said, but I feel like you want me to respond and I don't know how.
I agree that free speech is fundamental to our society, but it isn't in theirs. I think you might think that I believe what he did (worst sentence ever) should be illegal, and I don't think that at all. I think it was in poor taste and there were consequences for his actions, but our military exists to protect those rights. They should do so.
What about the schools for girls burned down as a "response" to the actions of Terry Jones?
What about them?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago*
My point is there are values that have to constitute a civil society. Free speech is one of them. You said what they did was to "enforce the law" and this was, in a way, understandable but not justifiable. As important as it is to understand the social-cultural background of Afghanistan, we have every right to judge such barbarism and murder in any culture, including our own (you seemed to imply we didn't).
Secondly, you only mentioned the murders of humanitarian workers. I'm just asking: how are the destruction of schools for girls a "response" or protest to the actions of Terry Jones ?
To be honest, I hadn't heard about the schools and I plan on looking for information about it during my coffee in the morning. So thank you for mentioning it.
If I gave the impression that I was justifying anything, that really wasn't my intention. It's all ridiculous and unjustifiable in my mind. As far as judging other cultures, I guess that is fine on an individual level, imo, but I do start to have a problem when it comes to forcing our values and standards on other cultures. It leads to stuff like aid workers getting murdered over something abstract- right or wrong. It's just what happens when cultures clash.
Do we have the authority to step in? It's a question I personally struggle with. I'm a bleeding heart liberal, so I always want to help those being oppressed. On the other hand, I think we should respect other cultures and state sovereignty. I don't know where that line is for me. These people haven't asked for our help, where Palestinians have been asking us for years while Israel strangles and corners them. But officially, we don't know that is happening. How do we choose who to help? It doesn't seem like we're doing it well. Meanwhile we have a massive economic crisis and the midwest is falling to fascism. Why are we spending money abroad to help other people and not ourselves?
Sorry, this turned into a stream of consciousness.
[–]mpokora 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
You're talking about it like it happened in Montana or something.
YOU KEEP MONTANA OUT OF THIS!
[–]h_lance 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I don't disagree with this, but would point out that most Afghans are, physically, "white people". Other than being markedly less obese, you could put them in the right type of clothing, and many of them could pass for Koran-burning right wing fanatic white Floridians.
If you are downvoting me because you think my comment is racist, you have misinterpreted my comment.
If you are downvoting me because you don't realize that many Afghans have European-like features, you are incorrect.
If you are downvoting me because you have a problem with the fact that people who have different cultural values are not also physically very different from you, you are the racist.
For full disclosure - 1) I oppose all invasions except in defense against a nation whose government has declared war on the US or an ally whom we have a treaty obligation to defend (such as members of NATO; I said "treaty"). 2) I strongly support effectively defending ourselves against terrorists, but we should not and don't need to invade and occupy other nations or violate international law to do that. 3) I strongly oppose invasions or occupations that are designed to "make the domestic policies of another country better". It's the Department of Defense, not the Department of Bomb Other Countries to "Improve" Them. 4) I would do almost anything NOT to live in a brutal theocracy, but I live in the sovereign nation called the United States and Afghans live in the sovereign nation called Afghanistan. How they run their country is out of my control. In fact, even wasting billions of dollars and thousands of young lives, it's still out of our control, so maybe we could just stop the wastage.
[–]MeloJelo 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I suspect the downvotes are for the fact that the genetic heritage and phenotype of the people who slaughtered UN employees based on religious zealotry has little to do with the conversation at hand.
We need to be asking who is stoking the fire over there.
A subset of the 10 percent who can read. Those who can access the internet.
[–]mywifeisaninja 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
You're seriously trying to suggest that because Americans pay taxes they are some how directly responsible for what the army is used for? Unfortunately I don't have a choice what my taxes are used for, if I could I would. However what I can do, and do-do, is I don't vote for people who vote in favor of such wars, or start them.
Also, are you from Afghanistan? How do you get off making the assumption that they don't know about 9-11? What makes you the authority on what the afghan people know?
[–]AustraLucy 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I'd be very interested in finding a study done on how many actually know about 9/11
[–]verbose_gent 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
If you go looking for it, I'm pretty sure I read it in an article about the literacy rate and the state of their infrastructure in general. I'm pretty sure I've also read about it in an interview with Richard Engel too.
If you find it can you link me to it so I can save for the next time this discussion comes up?
Thanks for that tip. Definitely helped me find it. Here you go: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40273302/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/
No, thank you. Everyone jumped down my throat hardcore and I was starting to question whether I made it up or not.
[–]ContentWithOurDecay -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
Well maybe they should spend less time growing poppies and more time learning to read.
[–]icanseestars 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
I believe the difference is that Afghanistan has been this way for thousands of years. They have repelled the Persian Empire, Genghis Khan, the British, the Soviet Union, etc.
Afghanistan has been a collection of iron-age, splintered warring territories that resist new ideas and change. Their people have been, and probably always will be, raised to be cold-blooded killers.
If they did not kill for burning a book, they would do so because of some other superstition. What is amazing is that finding out we hunt them for sport hardly raises an eyebrow in Afghanistan.
Remember, to them, we are the new invaders.
[–][deleted] 37 points38 points39 points 1 year ago
Afghanistan has been ruled by the Mongol dynasty, Persio-Turkish dynasty, and from far away Bengal by a Bengali dynasty.
Heck, if you see their history, you see that more than 12 Empires and kings have conquered and ruled Afghanistan one time or another, changing every 2-3 century. From before Alexander. Rather than repelling Empires, Afghanistan has been a playground of empires.
[–]Beyondtheveil7 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Primitive retarded barbarians sums it up nicely too!
[–]Gallop 107 points108 points109 points 1 year ago
Anyone else feel real anger when you heard about this on the news? i'd love someone to just fly over in a helicopter and a megaphone and just yell "IT's JUST A FUCKING BOOK!"
[–]booksaid 59 points60 points61 points 1 year ago
Anger cannot be countered by more anger. The more we incite religious people, more they cling to their irrational beliefs.
[–]Boonana 20 points21 points22 points 1 year ago
Proper education and teaching is the most important thing. I was annoyed to hear that people killed UN workers using the excuse that some idiot burns a book in another country. These are not the protesters, these are idiots looking for an excuse to reinforce their idiotic ideas. I also read that before this protests against the book-burner were peaceful and devolved into violence.
[–]EncasedMeats 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Proper education and teaching is the most important thing.
True dat and the cheapest way to educate millions fast is rural electrification + television. Once you get their women hooked on soap operas, there's no turning back.
[–]ComradReddit 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
the only true victory in history has been violently opposing and defeating those you disagree with. peaceful resolution is an illusion. for every "peace" resolution, i can name ten conflicts solved by violence. lets not kid ourselves. for those who truly cares for free speech, the only way to fight those that will kill you for speaking or express thoughts they disagree with is to fight back with overwhelming force and pummel them into submission.
[–]Boonana 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I believe you are being too short sighted, sure it is hard to achieve strong change through peaceful protesting. Though I don't see how anyone is oppressing free speech in this situation, the person buring the koran wasn't, and the protesters were not either.
Though I also believe that the best way to attack the problem of the ignorance that causes this idiotic behaviour, is from the root, which I would think is at least partially to do with education.
[–]bloog 41 points42 points43 points 1 year ago*
They need to be removed from the earth, imo. That shouldn't go unpunished. If other religious people want to stand up for those protestor's actions then they should be removed from the earth too. If they are so far divorced from decency that they don't see the sick irrationality in those actions, then they don't deserve to live on this world. I don't care if they're confused or uneducated. Be confused and uneducated without cutting the heads off of innocent people, or fuck off and die. There's no justification for those actions. It's not acceptable human behavior. Nothing would be lost with those specific people gone and everyone that supports their actions. There are times when you have to stop making concessions. The fear of inciting anger should not allow this kind of thing to go unpunished, nor should it stifle anyone's free speech, including that stupid pastor's. If they want to fight to stifle the rest of the world's freedom, then a fight they should have. It's so fucking terrible that those UN civilians were brutally murdered, but NO ONE is to blame but the sick fucks that did it, in my humble opinion. If that's the game they want to play, then lets play the fucking game. Disclaimer: I don't know anything about war, and I am naive. I'm only talking about retaliating on the specific perpetrators like in a system of law, not a war. I'm sure that's unrealistic.
[–]JosiahJohnson 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago
We just need to stop playing in their playground. Let them do whatever it is they want to do.
I'm sorry Egypt, when you're giving virginity tests to women for being outside alone, I don't care what happens to you. I don't see how so many people were so excited about it. Let's replace one oppressive dictator with another, or a large group of oppressive dictators. Same with Afghanistan. Wife doesn't sex you? No worries, starve the bitch! Fuck that noise. Fuck it all. And fuck all of them.
We just need to ignore them. Act like they don't exist. At UN meetings, when they talk to our people, our people need to look through them and behave as though they simply aren't there. That or just treat them like the children they are. Maybe give them candy or gold stars when they do well.
[–]bloog 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I like that idea.
[–]Mercedes383 -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago
Oil.
[–]JosiahJohnson 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
They rape women. Then murder the women for being whores.
[–]naked_guy_says 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
If she wasn't such a whore why'd she let me penetrate her? The adulterous slut
[–]JosiahJohnson 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Get some stones and meet us in the town square.
[–]Mercedes383 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
And that has what to do with why we want to be there? We require energy security. That region has the most abundent oil reserves in the world. This is why we are always involved there and generally making a mess of things. And before you say that it's the fault of the rich oil companies remember they do it because you want them to; you require them to. The way of life you lead, the things you buy, the energy you consume, that computer you are using, this way of life demands a lot of energy. The government of energy intensive economies will go where they must to secure supply. I'm not arguing whether it is good or bad, I'm just illuminating what is.
/Person involved in the oil industry exploiting 3rd world countries.
[–]JosiahJohnson 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
To be fair, it was a one word reply with no actual content or attempt at conversation. Was I supposed to take it seriously?
I don't play the rich oil company game. Corporations exist because we want goods. They get run of the playground because our government is corrupt.
Back on point, though. I don't have all the numbers or information. I can't do proper cost/benefit analysis of this sort. Especially since more expensive oil on our part could very well cause a recession and end up killing our own. I know I use a lot of energy. Hell, a low front came in last night and the thunder storm barely missed us, so we went driving for about 30 miles to catch it.
I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying it's something that has to be confronted head-on. There are hundreds of millions of women suffering under this shit. And then our leaders go and shake their hands and play buddy buddy for oil. I'd imagine our politicians would be in a bit of a huff if their daughters were raped and executed just for being a girl. But it's a-motherfucking-okay for it to happen to other people's little girls.
I completely agree. I often had to work in these countries and it took me some time to disassociate from it. I feel rotten for it. Actually since there are internationally agreed standards of human rights I wouldn't have a problem if we all took an active role via the UN to put considerable pressure on any country that violates this, which unfortunatly is quite a few. There is moral justification in protecting life and human rights. Much more justifiable than trampling around the desert like we do hounding for oil.
[–]verbose_gent 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
We've been working on it for several years.
[–]spotted_dick 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
Not had much success with it have we? Kill one and there's 10 more to take his place. It's self-perpetuating.
[–]usedtowork 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
and how is your "work" progressing, internet commenter
I don't support removing anyone from the Earth. I don't think anyone has the moral authority to decide if another person has the right to live or die.
I think those responsible should be held accountable for their actions. I also think they should be prevented from inflicting more harm.
In the long term, education and economic opportunity would make the vast majority of this kind of nonsense disappear.
[–]leodavinci 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
I can't believe this comment got upvoted.
Treat those religious people as sick, but kill them/remove them from the Earth? That is the same kind of talk theists use against non-believers.
That whole comment just makes me a bit sick.
[–]bloog 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I'm not talking about "religious people", I'm talking about crazed murderers. I'm not advocating glassing Afghanistan...
[–]sleeper141 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
FUCK YA!!! your totally right!
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
What if we hunt them all down like animals and kill them, but we do it all stealthy and cool-like, instead of all angry and loud? That'd work, right?
[–]booksaid 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Countless people, throughout history, have firmly believed that eliminating people who don't conform to their beliefs and ideologies is the best solution. Then they have failed miserably. If we resort to the same, what is different about us?
[–]bjo3030 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
Actually, countless people were SUCCESSFUL, but you wouldn't know that, because the shit they eliminated was...... eliminated, understand?
[–]sketerpot 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago
For example, you don't hear much about the Cathars, who had a particularly fun branch of Christianity which believed that the Old Testament God was actually Satan pretending to be God, and that we're already living in the closest thing there is to Hell. The reason you don't hear about them anymore is because the Catholic Church slaughtered them by the thousands, burned all the books they could get their hands on, and then set about burning dissidents alive.
This is horrible, and I really wish that Catharism were a major Christian denomination today (because it would be hilarious), but you can't really dispute that the Church's "kill them all and let God sort it out" plan worked.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
We were the most right so far.
[–]Eulenspiegel74 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Alas, your level-headed suggestion might be the correct thing to do, my fist impulse (and second, to be honest) was to drive over there and smash heads. And pluck eyes while leaving them attached to the optical nerves so they can watch themselves being turned into salsa. Then urinating on the remains.
Yes, "internet tough guy", I know. Also, I hope that people like you are in charge of, well, the world.
Shouldn't be downvoting him. He's expressing how he feels, and that he considers it the wrong course of action even though he feels that way. Stop being dickbags guys.
[–]Eulenspiegel74 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Redditor A+++! :)
[–]froderick 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
Anger? Yes. But not as much as I felt disappointment. When I heard it, I literally said to myself "Awww man, why'd ya have to go and do that?".
[–]PrimaxAUS 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
They're muslims, and if I've learned anything about muslims from movies they have RPGs...
They're so behind. I heard they just got FF7 last year!
[–]throop77 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
It's obviously not just a book to them or they wouldn't be killing people over it.
[–]Gallop 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Point is noone should ever be killed over a piece of paper, no matter what it means to someone, end of the day it is just a book, a piece of literature and as far as im concerned, its like people going on a rampage over a harry potter book that got burnt.
[–]TenshiS 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yeah, that'll show'em!
[–]quasar2222 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I was so angry I punched a wall... concrete wall...
[–]NotClever 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
The only thing that actually made me angry was that the official they interviewed on BBC (I think he was actually a local UN official, but might have been a local governor) said that the blame lies completely with the florida assholes and that you can't blame the killers for what they did. That's just fucking stupid.
[–]sloppyrock 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
He obviously wanted to keep his head attached. Sickening business.
[–]Warrior21 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Origin of the Species was just a book too.
[–]verbose_gent -7 points-6 points-5 points 1 year ago
To me it's kind of like we've killed like 7/10 males that they know, countless number of women and children, and made their daily life hell filled with gunfire/bombs/death. Now in their eyes, we're coming after the one fucking thing they believe in.
I'm sure you're all right though: They're just pissed about a fucking book.
[–]rbnc 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
we've killed like 7/10 males that they know
Who is we?
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago*
Haha yeah, there's alway an excuse. Remember the danish cartoons? Remember the riots in pakistan when a woman accused of having defamed Mohammed was just flogged?
They really, truly, feel that random westerners deserve to be beaten and beheaded because a completely different westerner burned a book. That really is why they did it. Religion is irrational, uneducated muslims in mid-eastern boondocks doubly so. Deal with it.
[–]forevercabron 19 points20 points21 points 1 year ago
Right, because they were completely rational and civil prior to this. I'm not talking about Muslims in general, you understand, but extremists that are still the first to catch a camel to crazy town and kill people over something like this.
[–]tofagerl -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
This isn't about the extremists, it's about the other 99% - the normal people they hide behind. They're the ones we can convince. Do that, and you win the war.
Yes. We're talking about people living in mud huts. 9 out of 10 of them can't read and they don't have tv. Did you know that most Afghans don't even know what happened on 911? When you take all of that into consideration and the fact that white people have been coming in there decade after decade trying to kill all of their males, can't you understand why they would just be a little on edge?
Exactly. It's not civilized over there, but we have no right pointing fingers about people behaving irrationally. It's not like we've ever had a protest that has spun out of control in the US right?
[–]kral2 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
It's not like we've ever had a protest that has spun out of control in the US right?
Yeah, just yesterday I killed every shopper in Safeway when I sneezed and the cashier told me "God bless you" causing great personal offense to my beliefs. And then I was celebrated as a hero by the nation and no charges were filed.
It's not civilized over there
Right.
but we have no right pointing fingers about people behaving irrationally
Wrong.
[–]sarcastic_bastard 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago*
let me get this straight son, are you implying that no mula of theirs ever informed them about how bin laden dealt a colossal blow to the us, yet they learned about how an insignificant nutjob pastor lit a kuran on fire somewhere in the middle of nowhere? Because I am much more inclined to believe that they faint ignorance when asked just so some goody two shoes utopia loving western hippie will sympathize with their cause.
I'm talking about the situation in its entirety. You think that the people who have been told about 911 over there were told the truth? I'm sure you're absolutely right...
I'm suggesting that people try to take their political hats off and try to understand what is actually going on in reality. Things aren't black and white, both sides are fed propaganda, and our cultures couldn't be more different.
[–]sarcastic_bastard 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
Not that different, actually. We Europeans are as guilty of witch hunting in the middle ages as these people are of killing UN workers over NOTHING. What I really find awkward is the apologetic stance of the West when it comes down to people behaving completely irrationally over bullshit, just because these cretins happen to be born in Afghanistan or Palestine or whatever. Ofcourse, we have contributed greatly to these people turning over to religious fundamentalism, but that doesn't justify the killing of innocents in any way.
[–]streptomycin 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
you implying that no mula of theirs ever informed them about how bin laden dealt a colossal blow to the us
"Few Afghans in Helmand and Kandahar provinces, Taliban strongholds where fighting remains fiercest, know why foreign troops are in Afghanistan, says the 'Afghanistan Transition: Missing Variables' report to be released later on Friday. The report by The International Council on Security and Development (ICOS) policy think-tank showed 92 percent of 1,000 Afghan men surveyed in Helmand and Kandahar know nothing of the hijacked airliner attacks on U.S. targets in 2001."
yet they learned about how an insignificant nutjob pastor lit a kuran on fire somewhere in the middle of nowhere
clearly they did, since they responded to it. i don't know what percentage that was
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago*
Tell me, when a US christian fundie like Newt Gingrich promotes creationism or claims that muslim atheists are plotting to take over the US, do you instantly believe that he's really protesting the civil rights movement or that his argument is a protest against the atrocities committed by catholic troops during the 30-years-war?
Newt Gingrich? Why is he a part of this conversation? I believe he's in it for defense money. His statements are meant to gather the support he needs to collect more checks.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Because fundies - christian and muslim - believe and say irrational things. You selectively refuse to believe the muslim ones mean it.
[–]encephlavator 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Jesus Christ Verbose. I gotta jump in here. You seem to be seeing conspiracies everywhere except for the Muslims. They're excused because they're downtrodden. HuH?
Think of it this way. Let's leave them alone. Let their brand of world view take over until they run our country. You think we have it bad now with all the christian fundies in political office?
Try a government run by Islamo fundies.
You sound confused.
[–]encephlavator 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
And another thing:
If we lose control of the oil, then things are gonna change and change in a big way. People are gonna die, and lots of them. Most likely you'll be one of the first.
No, it's not a pleasant truth. But it is reality.
[–]SashimiX 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I know you are going to get downvoted to death, so I just wanted to say "Thanks." I hope people don't do it against reddiquette, but I already see one of your comments is at -3.
You aren't excusing what happened, you are just saying that things are extremely complex, and that our actions are contributing to the problem.
I think it's a hard line to take but an important one. Why? Because while they shouldn't be killing people over a book, what the US is doing, and has been doing, to them is worse. Not only that, it is contributing to further terrorism and more problems. It is making us less safe, not more. Until we realize it, we are going to react with war and that will only lead to more problems.
We must react with sanity. We have no excuse. We are educated and don't live in mudhuts; it's time we stopped interfering and started repairing our own broken nation.
Meanwhile, I do despise religion. But what we are doing in the name of freedom is as bad as what people do in the name of religion.
[–][deleted] 1 year ago
[deleted]
[–]SashimiX 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
It is not a valid or rational line of thought. They are totally uneducated, foolish, and impoverished. In addition, they are religious.
All I'm saying is our actions are directly contributing to the problem. So we need to look at our actions long and hard.
I realized I would get downvoted into oblivion. This is how mob mentality works. It's how we gathered support Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place. The pursuit of understanding is stopped and our emotions are encouraged to spin out of control.
Freedom and democracy are absolutely our official religions and that is why this retaliation at one of our 'holy sites' is so fucking outrageous. Where is this outrage for the tens of thousands of innocent people we have killed over there? Is their score still less than 10 in this incident? If people really cared about these peoples' lives, they'd be fighting to get all of the lives that we value out of there.
Some of what I said in this comment are somewhat hyperbolic, but the reality is that barely anyone with an opinion on the matter understands what the situation really is. They can't comprehend their reality. We lost 7 people and that's terrible, but justice isn't measure death toll.
[–][deleted] 24 points25 points26 points 1 year ago
Someone created a realistic, inoffensive visual depiction of our prophet?
Better kill civilians!
[–]b0tfly[S] 54 points55 points56 points 1 year ago
Someone drew a comic?
[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 1 year ago
I don't know, he looks scared to me.
[–]Gallop 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
I hope this catches on.
[–]quests 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Little girl raped, murder her. :(
[–]CrayolaS7 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Someone might have some old scud missiles, better kill ~100,000 civilians.
[–]kral2 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
If someone kills civilians it's ok for everyone to kill civilians, brilliant!
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
They are a peaceful people. Unless you exercise your right to think whatever you want about their religion or god. In that case its on....
[–]djpk19 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Please watch the movie Agora. You can see how all this petty shit turns bad soo quickly.
[–]herrmister 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Yesterday, christians. Today, muslims.
[–]Triesault 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Tomorrow Scientologists?
[–]adamjm 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
I couldn't finish watching it. It is so distressing knowing that choices made back then could have stopped religion in its tracks or at least allowed mymore balanced views to thrive. Time travel would have me going back way before hitler that's for sure.
realy belated edit
[–]Puredeez 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
The only way we can control religious people is witchcraft.
[–]sleeper141 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
I'm sorry, I try to be understanding, but i hate those mutherfuckers. these people are so fucked up there killing over what ONE douche bag did 5000 miles away. fuck em.
[–]Veylis 17 points18 points19 points 1 year ago
In the US there was a general condemnation of that guy burning the Qurans. Why do I feel like the Afghans wont really be bothered too much by the killings?
I always hear about how peaceful islam is but the evidence of muslims condemning the violence in their religion and culture is vanishingly small.
The majority will support the killings. In Pakistan there'll be celebrations.
[–]sleeper141 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
Thank you thank you. My thought exactly. I used to try to sympathize about lack of education and oppressive governments...but they never make any effort to even act somewhat civilized. As a compassionate liberal, i have to draw a line somewhere. Fuck em
Yeah they do- but the civilized ones are quiet and respectful, and nobody's going to write an article "Large group of muslim men sit at home and discuss the state of the world economy."
As long as there are fiery asshole thugs running around chanting "allahu akbar", it'll be hard to see past them to the silent majority.
Now, if you want to make the point that the civilized afghan majority should be noisier in condemning their peers, I'm right there with 'ya... but sadly, the majority of afghans are like the majority of americans- disapproving of the violent nutjobs, but lazy, comfortable, and unwilling to stir things up and make their own lives into an ideological battleground.
[–]Veylis 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Now, if you want to make the point that the civilized afghan majority should be noisier in condemning their peers
That was precisely my point. The violent factions should be ostracized by the peaceful muslims but are not. Which makes me conclude that the majority approve of this sort of thing.
[–]MrHappyMan 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
That's because they do.
[–]dort 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
An American douchebag Xtian burned our Holy Book? Better go kill some Norwegians, Swedes, Rumanians and Nepalese.
[–]discdigger 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Now you know how the Iraqi's feel. Don't forget: The 9/11 hijackers were Saudis.
[–]GonnaBeBigSomeday 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Oh Jesus Christ, this again?
A) We didn't invade Iraq because of 9/11, and B) Are you saying the government of Afghanistan wasn't involved at all?
Would you be happier if we'd invaded Saudi Arabia because 15 of their citizens committed a crime? (Yes, I'm pretty sure you'd rather we not have invaded anyone at all, I'm just making a point).
[–]herrmannelig 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Scumbag isn't the right word. Brainless zombie is.
[–]EndTimer 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Video games have made it abundantly clear to me that the only objectively correct and reasonable thing to do to brainless zombies is shoot them in the head.
Just sayin'.
[–]Radico87 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
yeah, must be a muslim thing.
[–]HappyGlucklichJr 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I can't disagree. But if you want to do something about them then go be a soldier of fortune and knock yourself out. But don't force me, my family, our neighbors, etc. to pay for your fun. Send those losers back to the pages of National Geographic and get back to a strong USA.
[–]moxiemoxiemoxie 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Didnt some journalists track down ol' wacky beard here? I cant remember but I think it turns out he was protesting something pretty benign and not fundy religion related.
[–]dossier 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I think he's saying Allahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh will be okay
[–]JayJay729 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
so fuckin true
[–]ampernand 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
can we have the template?
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
enjoy
[–]ampernand 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
good stuff , thank you
[–]b0tfly[S] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Template here.
[–]Incepting_Your_Dream 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
It's missing a hat
[–]Unenjoyed 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
It's why I opened the link
[–]painperdu 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
This is dumb. Why not just print up more books?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Couldn't they just burn a bible? That would have been an eye for an eye. Nooo, fucking beasts had to honor their reputation with insane demonstrations and killing sprees.
[–]gasoline 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Weak.
[–]drewsaysgoveg 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
More like this, amirite?
[–]orbitur 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
He's saying a relatively unimportant event designed by an attention whore received 24 hour news coverage for a few weeks.
[–]Veylis 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago
So if we do anything that might incite muslims to murder we should keep it a secret? Fuck them. That religion needs to get out of the middle ages.
Are they wrong to denounce the pastors actions?
^ Truth.
If someone burns a Koran in Tuvalu, NOONE will kill anyone. No one cares jackshit about anyone burning the Koran without cause - these people alreay have a reason to fight the invaders.
And lets not kid ourselves - the UN is there in company of NATO. It did not ask the exiled Taliban government, or the poeple of Afghanistan, for permission to operate there.
Its funny how in r/politics, there will be a 1000 upvoted thread about a revolution in America. But the same thing happening in Afghanistan is condemned.
For the record, I am against any violence, whether revolution in countries, or the murder that happened here, but to make the case that its just about the Koran is stupid.
It's nice to see at least one really rational comment in this thread. It seems that everybody here thinks that these guys are simply religious fanatics who will go out and kill more than 10 men just because a book was burned, just like the media wants us to believe. But this situation is actually more subtle than that, for me, there isn't even a straightforward connection between the murders and the burning, and I'm suspecting the media is making this up, possibly ignoring facts in order to have a good story.
This are the kind of issues r/atheism should be discussing instead of more christian circle-jerking shit.
I think the funniest thing about this is that americans don't know anything about this quran thing. No US media covered it.
Yet people in the middle east are going nuts acting as if this act was an official action of the US.
[–]Bumbaclaat 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
The underlying offense we have committed against Afghans and Pakistanis is to kill them en masse... As far as they are concerned, burning qurans is just icing on the cake.
So to portray this as simply religious fundamentalism completely misses the point of why they are really angry in the first place
If there was only someway to get the talibangelicals and the talibans together to eliminate one another without the rest of us (including their children) in the way ... I would be all for it.
[–]Gephoria 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
they should follow this religiously in alaska
[–]I_AM_A_RAPTOR 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
rawr
[–]pgomez 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Exactly. I honestly respect and admire very much the teachings of your kind. Did you know Jesus was a raptor?
rawr!
[–]DUDE_NO_YOURE_NOT 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
.
[–]Inquiry 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
It's funny because burning a Quran is the proper way to dispose of it.
[–]WellHeresMyFourthAcc 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
"FUCK YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE! YOU HAVE BLASPHEMED THE BOOK OF MY RELIGION OF PEACE! I SHALL KILL YOUR HUMANITARIAN AID ORGANIZATION'S CIVLIANS TO MAKE UP FOR THIS SACRILEGE!"
Religion of Peace my ass.
more deaths in the name of God
I fucking hate nutbag extremists and I fucking hate religions. Mohammed and Jesus can suck my balls.
[–]nightzirk 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Better drink my own piss
[–]eyeball_kid -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 year ago
The killings were not just about some asshole burning a book. This was about some asshole that's from the country that has sent in it's military to occupy your country, kill your people, and prop up a widely despised corrupt warlord regime who adds just one more insult on top of it all by burning a book he knows you consider sacred. It was a direct insult to people living under occupation. Of course they snapped.
[–]Parmeniooo 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago
I don't think your context is perfectly relevant in this instance. They killed civilians and not American soldiers or even American civilians. This makes me more strongly believe that it wasn't so much them being occupied, but that they just had to kill "westerners" for desecrating their book.
Though, I take your point, I'm just not sure it adds up in this case.
[–]streptomycin 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
i doubt they can distinguish very well between westerners. heck, american attacked sikhs after 9/11, and we are a much more informed population (literacy rate in afghanistan is only like 30%, for instance).
[–]eyeball_kid 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
It's not just Americans that are occupying Afghanistan. It's several western powers.
[–]d4x 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Sooooo what your saying is the actions of some douche bag burning a book warrants these guys to go and kill a bunch of people with NO connection what so ever to the original guy???? So when they burn an American flag... Can we go find the nearest Arabs and kill them????
I'm not saying it's rational. Just that there's a lot more too it than a crazy muslim barbarian freak-out over a book.
As for burning an American flag - last I checked America is not under occupation.
[–]Al_D -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Yes
[–]VladMcRad 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Scumbag protesters:
Fucked by USA, kill UN civilians.
You're right, this is a much more generous light to show them in.
[–]FinKM 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
As far as I am aware the UN did not invade their country ಠ_ಠ
They wanted to kill westerners. Any.
[–]eyeball_kid 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
The occupation is being run by several Western powers. That probably gets conflated with anyone foreign.
[–]OldLeopardSkin 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Except that none of the people they killed were americans.
Not just the US is involved in the occupation.
Fuck. Is there something you won't find an apology for?
[–]The_Jackal 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israels-war-on-gaza-killed-252-children-report-claims-1783877.html You are too easy. Typical israeli conscript. Useless at combat. Thats why they only murder undefended adults, and kids. YAWN.
How is that in any way an apology?
[–]SashimiX -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
It isn't an apology. It's just a more nuanced way to look at the situation. It is more complex than a meme can convey.
[–]bureX 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Yeah, let's go back to the Taliban regime!
That's not for you to decide. That's for the Afghani people to decide. It's their country, not yours.
[–]bureX 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
So, leave them alone to produce their opium while highly positioned officials throw threats at every "infidel" out there, until a thing like 9/11 happens? Leave them be when they stone women for all the wrong reasons? Leave them alone when they destroy archeological treasures, video/audio archives and all writings that don't fit the world view of Allah wackos? In today's world, you can't wall yourself in one shitty country while abusing your fellow countrymen, and occasionally getting out to attack your "enemies" and then expect nothing to happen. If human rights are being violated, it's OUR problem. Sometimes we can do something about it, sometimes not, but it's an awful thing to say that it's their country and they can do whatever they want with it because they CAN'T, there's no democracy, there's no voting, it's just a few older power hungry idiots making the decisions on how millions of people will live. Your logic is based on "it's not my problem", and that's not right.
tl;dr: I'm pretty sure Nazi Germany was to be left alone when that jew-killing thing came along...
Afghanistan was a secular republic until the west started to interfere and started funneling money and guns to the Taliban because the existing government was uncomfortably close to the Soviets. You're operating under the illusion that the western powers are in Afghanistan to promote "democracy". They're not. The forces our governments are backing are just corrupt warlords that are engaged in widespread arms trafficking, drug production, and pedophilia. The forces that are actually pro-democracy (such as Malia Joya) are harshly critical of the occupation and want NATO forces to get the hell out.
[–]hver 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Many Afghans would agree. If at some point in the future they decide that may not have been such a good idea, they can take inspiration from the Arab world and rise against the Taliban. No need for us to get (or stay) involved.
The majority do not want the taliban back. They don't want the US there either, mostly because they feel the US has failed to provide security. And the irony of it all is that the US would love nothing more than to GTFO.
you seem to think that we can bring them something better than the taliban, and we can accomplish that by bombing them for a decade.
[–]KerrAvon 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Oh man, I up-voted but this is not a popular opinion on Reddit.
[–]moderndayvigilante -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Bomb everything, destroy their cities and kill all their civilians I don't care. Religion. Is. FUCKED.
[–]cubs1917 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I am sure this will solve the problem
[–]iambecomedeath7 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Am I the only one who feels it's pointless to even try to interact with these fundamentalist savages?
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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