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Finally, my thoughts can be expressed in a photo. (i.imgur.com)
submitted 1 year ago by [deleted]
[–]t6158 39 points40 points41 points 1 year ago
photos without context mean nothing.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Perfect, my thoughts can be expressed in one comment on how Agnostic/Athiest Redditors can be so fcking ignorant!
Christian Missionaries have done so much for third world countries and no one knows about it, or gives them credit for.
[–]whigg -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
Just because they do good things does not mean we should forget the indoctrination. I'm not saying I'd rather be given nothing than a bible and some food, but it's an issue that should be addressed.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not referring to this specifically, but missionaries in general.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Hope and food goes a long way from nothing...
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Are you an idiot?! Redditors want to RAGE against things on the internet without doing a damn thing to help.
Don't take that away from them!
Edit: 99.1%, or $126M on programs?! Daaaamn! Impressive!
Donating is the second worst thing you can do for those people next to nothing. Loaning money is much better.
If I give you 100 dollars today, you will use it to buy food for your family.
If I give you 100 dollars today and tell you to pay me back in a year, you will use the 100 dollars to start a business or find some other efficient use of the capital.
[–]TheJungleVIP 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
It worked perfectly for Africa!
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Oh, no! Not food!
[–]MLBM100 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Yeah cuz those people who are currently starving have only one concern: how can I use my entrepreneurial abilities to set up a business?
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Ok, let's donate money to africa and become one of their most reliable sources of food. Since they have a reliable source of food from donations, they have no reason to set up their own food producing infrastructure. If the current trend continues, africa will always be the hell hole it is because they have no reason to modernize if they get all their food from donations.
[–]divadsci 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Shall we ignore the problems with the debt parts of Africa is already in and the effect of EU farm subsidies on fostering entrepreneurship?
[–]MLBM100 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I understand what you're saying, but it would be inhumane to not help them.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
This is true. There is no easy way to modernize a country that has no infrastructure and no incentive to provide for themselves. I wish there was a better way to provide an incentive for Africa to develop other than letting them starve.
I don't think it's not that they don't have the incentives to do it, they simply don't have the resources. Letting them starve is definitely not an option. And yeah, you're right, they have to be able to develop their infrastructure in order to become self-reliant, but I don't know how they could do that.
[–]WarPhalange -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
What business would that be? Cleaning rubble? Clearing dead bodies? Growing rocks?
[–]AnalogDan -8 points-7 points-6 points 1 year ago
Had they not spent money on Bibles, they could have fed more people.
[–]MLBM100 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
They are missionaries, that's what they do. At least they're helping people. If they're feeding as many starving children as they can, who gives a fuck if they spent money on bibles to hand them out to those people. You just want to complain about the bible because you are most likely an atheist. If you don't appreciate the fact that they're handing out bibles, get your buddies together and go feed starving people without handing them bibles.
[–]AnalogDan 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago*
"If you don't appreciate the fact that they're handing out bibles, get your buddies together and go feed starving people without handing them bibles."
I already do that. Thanks.
$100,000. Do you feed 25,000 people, or do you only feed 15,000 people so you can advertise your religion to them?
Alright, good for you for doing something good for people in need. My point is that if people want to 'advertise' their religion but in the process of doing so they are helping less fortunate people, what is the problem? Even if they weren't spending money on bibles they wouldn't be able to feed all the hungry people in Africa. Maybe some of those poor people will find solace in religion, that's up to them. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it, as long as they're helping. Regardless of your religious views, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this.
[–]AnalogDan 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
And my point is: true morality has no agenda. Someone who does something because they want to spread a certain moral code or because they are seeking eternal salvation for them self is doing something out of selfish motives.
Yes, churches doing work like this is better than no work being done at all. But secular charity is still better than religious work like this. That's all I'm saying. We can do better.
[–]Rostin 33 points34 points35 points 1 year ago
I know this is very hard for some of you to understand, wise as you are in your early 20s, but the people of Haiti are overwhelmingly Christian. It is safe to assume that many of them want bibles. Moreover, basic physical needs in Haiti were being addressed by Christian aid organizations long before most of you were even vaguely aware of it as anything but a resort spot in the Caribbean. It is probably also true that unlike this overweight white dude whom you are scorning for his low score on the Richard Dawkins Purity Test, you have done nothing more to help Haitians than donate $10 that you'll never miss by sending a text message to a charity.
So, I think you should shut your self-righteous traps.
[–]Nboulanger 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago
As an atheist who went down to Haiti to do reconstruction and teach, I will say that religion and missionaries are a complicated issue down there.
They are a very religious people. That is understandable. I don't think I really understood religion until I was in a church service in a glorified hut on the outskirts of a UN Camp. We had come to deliver medical supplies and try to fortify their church/school/community center.
People who were accepted into the UN camp received regular food, water and medical care. Thus camp "suburbs" would form around the camp, hoping that people in the camp might pass some of the provisions along. This rarely happened, but they stayed anyway, and communities were beginning to form.
The service was a prayer to god. A prayer for salvation. There was literally no reasonable expectation that their condition would change, and thus the notion of a divine presence lifting them from that hell was their only source of true hope.
With that said, it was truly disappointing to see that six months after the earthquake, the vast majority of people still helping were missionaries. We stayed in a house run missionaries who oversaw an orphanage - and the main class of the day was bible study. They could have been taught a trade, a skill, something... But they were taught that the lord will bring them salvation. Once they aged out, they were forced to leave, and their prospects were dismal.
Meanwhile, they did provide food and basic medical care for the kids.
It is a complicated issue. It is damned hard to get anything to Haiti (they don't have a postal system, even before the earthquake), and thus everything that comes in has to be shipped on military vessels or taken in luggage. We each brought two large suitcases full of medical supplies and clothing to give away. I don't know that bringing bibles is the best use of space. Additionally, the native language is creole, and most people know little to know english. Handing them an english bible will most likely provide them with five minutes of fire to cook over.
At the same time, at least they were down there.
[–]50missioncap 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
It's a little off topic, but you're very enlightening post makes me wonder if religion inspires missionaries to do good or whether people who are inclined to do good abroad have a natural inclination to be drawn to religion.
[–]Rostin 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
They could have been taught a trade, a skill, something... But they were taught that the lord will bring them salvation. Once they aged out, they were forced to leave, and their prospects were dismal.
I haven't been there, but I can imagine that there are lots of people who want to help but don't really know how.
Even so, there is a general and well-established awareness that missionaries should be doing more than giving people stuff and teaching them about the bible. I grew up Southern Baptist, and I can remember hearing a missionary from Brazil speak while on furlough, and his specialty was teaching people how to farm. Compassion International is a huge Christian charity that operates schools all over the world where children can learn a trade and in some cases even receive support to attend university. I'm sure that setting things like that up takes a lot of time, money, and expertise. I mean, what trades or skills could the average person from the US teach? Arguably, it would be better for these people to volunteer with some organization that has experience doing it, but like you said, at least they're there.
I am a little surprised by one thing you said, that it's hard to get supplies into Haiti. Again, I haven't been there, and I'm not calling you a liar, but I read a lot that the place was flooded with supplies. The problem was distribution rather than a lack of stuff to give away. As for burning English bibles.. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some well-meaning but not very bright missionaries brought in crates of bibles in the wrong language, but a Creole language bible does exist, and "What language do Haitians speak?" seems like an obvious question to ask before setting off.
[–]Nboulanger 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Ahh... the armchair speculation.
To address your points - people do have skills. No, an accountant cannot do much. I am a musician. I spent half my time down there doing reconstruction and half the time teaching at a music school in Port-au-Prince. You might find that irrelevant, but they are trying to rebuild their culture, their way of life, and music is a part of that.
Re: Creole. Yes, they make creole bibles. You can't really get them in the states. People would bring down boxes of english bibles donated from bible drives (and bible publishers looking to take a ridiculous tax write off... many of these paperback bibles had "$59.99" printed on their back covers.
Re: getting stuff down there. For two months, it was no problem getting supplies down. The military provided ships that carried all sorts of donated items down. Yet without a regular mail service and damaged shipping ports, getting anything large down there was very difficult. 2x4s cost approximately $20 a piece down there (they cost around $2-5 in the states depending upon quality).
America's greatest issue re: disaster relief is that everyone "cares" so much for a few weeks, writes a check and then stops giving a damn. That is what was so brilliant about Hurricaine Katrina. We stopped caring after a few months, but these were americans who weren't going away because we lost interest in them.
And re: What language do Hatians speak? "Don't evrybudy speek Amurkan?"
I stand corrected on nearly all points except one, and I think you can probably guess which it is.
You might find that irrelevant, but they are trying to rebuild their culture, their way of life, and music is a part of that.
It's certainly not altogether irrelevant, but I can't see what it proves for purposes of this discussion. Part of your complaint was that the missionaries at the orphanage weren't teaching the kids in their care skills that would raise their prospects. I assumed you were talking about their prospects for some kind of gainful employment, and I indicated (I think) that I agreed that they should be doing that, but that it was probably hard for the average person to know how. Teaching music seems to be your counterexample.
I'm speculating again. I'm sure your students were very appreciative, and I don't think you were wasting your time, but I don't see how teaching music really addresses your concerns with the orphanage.
[–]WeOweIt 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
What does age have to do with it? Are you implying that people in their early 20's are without wisdom? If so, that implication is not very wise and it is probably due to an aging mind.
[–]Rostin 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
You're absolutely right. It has nothing directly to do with age, and it was unfair for me to say that. The point I was trying to get across is that it takes a certain degree of naivety to look at this picture and imagine that the only need or desire that the woman has is to have her physical needs met, or that the fat and imperialistic white man is "forcing his religion" on the poor and ignorant native woman, or any other shallow conclusions that we might draw based on the narrow understanding of missionary work that we've acquired from reading hostiles sources like the The Poisonwood Bible or the New Atheists.
[–]WeOweIt -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
I know what the point was. I just find it irritating when someone thinks people should shut their "self-righteous traps" when maybe they should take a look in the mirror.
[–]Owlettt 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Dude, if you are in your early twenties, and you think yourself wise, just wait ten years. Trust me, you will have a vastly different opinion of your current thinking--but only if you become wise enough to escape delusion. Here's a hint, if you think you are wise, then you probably aren't. Ps-this doesn't mean that you are self-righteous or stupid or should shut your trap or anything negative. But there certainly IS the connotation that wisdom grows with experience.
[–]WeOweIt 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I never said I think I am wise, and I am not in my early 20's.
I really meant it as the general you, not you specifically. I should have been more clear. Have an upvote by way of apology.
[–]SubstiScoot 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
ohsnap.jpg
[–]twackle 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
wise as you are in your early 20s
Yeah, that's the spirit!
[–]thecatintheshoes 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
It's called an ulterior motive.
Such as?
[–]thecatintheshoes 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Such as focusing their efforts to spread their religion on the poor, weak, and otherwise desperate for help. I'm sure they truly mean well and think that they are helping these people by offering them food and bibles, but the nature of their general "agenda" (though I hate that word) is not as selfless. They're attempting to make "helping the needy" synonymous with "offering them religion." Then, somebody will turn around and say "Hey we're not taking advantage of the poor in an attempt to build our membership, we're honestly offering them help in a completely selfless, black and white effort to help the needy" and that, frankly, is BS.
What do they stand to gain by building membership? It's not like they are hoodwinking wealthy old ladies to line their own pockets. If you had said that they were trying to get in good with God or something, I could accept that as an ulterior motive, even though I think it is probably untrue in most cases. I think you are mostly right when you say that they truly mean well and believe that they are really helping people by offering them food and bibles.
It's a natural human desire to bring others into your own views. Religion is just one vehicle for this, along with politics, fashion trends, even drugs. They probably think that recruiting people into their belief system in itself is what makes them look "good" in god's eyes.
[–]hexapus -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
I don't know you, but you're probably my new favorite person.
[–][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 1 year ago
OK, then the picture should be of whomever was the first person to give them food under the guise that it is religion that is bringing it.
It is not smug to think that it is horrible to go to a place where religion is not the problem, fix that problem and sneak in your religious beliefs. They've made it this far without your religion, thank you very much. To think or behave in a manner that suggests that not being Christian is a reason that they are impoverished is, in fact, what should be called smug.
Missionary work is dirty work wrapped in creepy smile. We just don't use scare tactics anymore bc that's what their own people do. We just use food to lure them in.
[–]hexapus 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
It absolutely IS religion that is bringing the food. These people, out of a conviction to emulate Jesus, have chosen to bring food and other necesities to others in need, and with it, a message which has given them hope and spiritual joy. Whether you agree with this message or not, the fact that they share the same religious message that motivated them to perform the charitable act doesnt detract from the act itself in any way.
If you want to take issue with something, there are religions that are still being preached at the point of a sword...I suggest you look for other causes to criticize.
[–]JDJersey 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
So you disapprove of missionaries giving food to poor people? Are you going to go down there and do something better or are you just going post your opinion on the internet and act like you are more compassionate?
I think you missed the point.
Giving food = good ... Forcing religion on people = bad ... Giving food to people in order to show the Jesus Christ (aka forcing religion) = evil
A quick search regarding missionary work provided this little quote from this site.
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/5431513492.html
"When you go on a missions trip - whether you go with your church, with WGM, or another missions group - you're entering dangerous territory. You're reaching out to people in the name of Jesus in order to make Him known. The further away from that primary motivation you get, the more potential damage you could be doing both to yourself and to those whom you are serving."
The problem I have is that the primary mission is not to help, but to "make Him known."
We can sit here all day and talk about the fact that at the end of the day people are getting food, however you will never make me feel that their intention is anything but underhanded.
[–]Owlettt 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Okay. Let's try this again: 1- Haitians ALREADY ARE christians 2-actually doing something about poverty > being a bigotted ass who does nothing but whine from the comfort of your first world home that the people helping don't think like you. What a baby.
....and just when I thought you couldn't get any worse
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago
you are what is wrong with atheists, the very fucking definition.
[–]theexpensivestudent 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago*
What an interesting submission!
I have great news for you! Several other people have done you the favor of expressing your thoughts for you:
with this exact photo
multiple times
months ago!
This bullet point is just for fun!
[–]LRE 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I loved your last bullet point. Would laugh again.
[–]tortuga_de_la_muerte 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Even more interesting.
[–]theexpensivestudent 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Check "an" in my comment. (All four words go to reposts)
Check "an" in my comment.
[–]duphis 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Months? I feel like I've been seeing it for years.
[–]mambypambyland -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
days ago!
FTFY
[–]theexpensivestudent 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
Well, that's not actually true.
The pictures that are identical to this one were posted 1 month ago and 3 months ago.
[–]bobadobalina 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
if that was the Koran you would have to live in hiding and fear for your family's lives
Using the best of your ability to provide third world country's with food means nothing if you try to extend your help in a way that some don't agree with, but can provide significant moral support.
[–]whitenoise89 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
They should have eaten that large man.
[–]PeterMus 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Actually, christians without access to the bible give it much higher regard. There are efforts to smuggle bibles into countries just so people can have them. In china people secretly gather into houses..20-30 people and only one may have a bible. It may seem unimportant to us because every hotel room, book store, street preacher, etc has them and they so easy to get. People without them desperately want them.
[–]Sahasrara 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
It's not the softest or most absorbent toilet paper, but it's better than nothing.
[–]newbstorm 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
That guy is about to destroy her hand with his mighty, mighty grip.
[–]hurfdurfer 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Handing out Bibles to people who have no interest in them is pretty outrageous.
My guess is that he's handing a Bible to someone who deeply appreciates it, as she can perhaps finally read the Bible in her own language.
I'm sure if you were in a situation where all of your possessions were destroyed/you never had much to begin with, you would appreciate mental/spiritual stimulation as well. It may not be the same as a Bible, but I don't think that detracts from its legitimacy.
[–]MasterOfBrutality 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Great photo. Will bookmark for future repost. How does two weeks time sound? Over. And. Over. And. Over.
[–][deleted] -11 points-10 points-9 points 1 year ago
I hate that man with the fury of a thousand suns. He is using resources just to get and maintain his fat ass that are better served elsewhere. Come on, you douche-bag, at least bring food and blankets and shit and try to sell them god when they a roof over their head.
[–]Conlaeb 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
I would tend to agree with you, but as PrometheusBound pointed out this charity actually has a very impressive track record. Granted I don't know how independent those numbers are. Find me a secular charity with this reach and rating and they will be getting my donations.
[–]buckykat -9 points-8 points-7 points 1 year ago
fuck this guy.
[–]cdenyikayedu -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 year ago
But she committed over 9000 sins. Surely she must be saved
[–]NoTellMotel -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
I'm sure zombie raptor Jebus will provide them with food. I think I'll ask my imaginary friend to bring me a sammich right now!
[–]hard_to_explain -9 points-8 points-7 points 1 year ago
It's probably a lot better than dirt cookies.
They didn't have to give anything to the Haitians.
[–]pweet -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 year ago
Better than mud cookies.
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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