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Good without God. (cdn-www.i-am-bored.com)
submitted 1 year ago by Beefcake2008
[–][deleted] 241 points242 points243 points 1 year ago
While Pat Robertson is a cruel and heartless hypocrite, you really shouldn't add your own material to a PR campaign without indicating that it's got nothing to do with the campaign, and if you insist on doing so anyway you should at least run a spellcheck.
[–]satereader 169 points170 points171 points 1 year ago*
As the producer of the original ad campaign, thanks Peanut_Sniper, you are correct. It was not the intent to say one group is better at charity than another- just that we atheists do some good stuff.
That said, whoever made the linked image does have some kinda point to make. Just not one we were going for and I hope no one gets that impression.
EDIT: This is the original blog post explaining the ad campaign and video here is local CBS news coverage.
[–]barmstr 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I was very thrilled the first time I saw these on the buses here. Nice work!
[–]myownwingman 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
Why do people think there should be a correlation between being a Christian and being a good person? The two have nothing to do with eachother. If all Christians were good, there'd be no point to it to begin with.
There are good people and there are bad people. There are christians and there are aetheists. There's no real correlation between the two.
[–]KorgRue 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
100% correct, but that is not what the average theist would like you to believe. To the average theist, morality is synonymous with "good", and morality comes from religion. To the average theist, if you are without religion, you are without morals and therefore not a good person.
[–]frenzyboard 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
I think the idea you're trying to convey is that theists view objective morality absolute only because they believe in divine morality. Sans divine morality, objective morality becomes impossible because there is no external standard by which to give weight to said morals.
And hey now. We really shouldn't say Bill Gates is all that good, seeing as congress actually had to break up his monopoly. And Warren Buffet probably owns more Chinese factories that employ children than the average Christian. But hey. Morality is subjective, right?
Honestly. Putting people on pedestals for being paradigms of humanity probably produces more problems than it's worth. Nobody is entirely good, and nobody is entirely evil. We've all got our reasons for being who we are, and it's important to try and evaluate motive more than morality.
[–]KorgRue 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
It is near impossible to evaluate ones motive so settling with weighing actions is sufficient for me. The good (or bad) one does, not why they do it is at the end of the day all that really matters.
[–]creamypouf 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I don't understand how some theists believe that if you take away religion you suddenly don't have morals to abide by. Are they saying that without God in their ear they would go around killing and pillaging?
[–][deleted] 1 year ago
[deleted]
Don't they view you as people, not inferiors?
They view me as a person with lower moral standards. You ARE speaking for yourself.
I've discussed this on end with friends that are theists and we typically agree.
Nice anecdote, but it proves nothing. I have talked with theists that view atheists as immoral. See how that works.
Why couldn't you just accept or perhaps be happy that there are more open-minded theists
Never said there wasn't. I said the average theist, which means that typically the more liberal or open minded theist may not hold that same view. As such, I am not entirely sure what you are arguing for of since my statement already accounted for the exceptions. Don't debate just for the sake of debating.
[–]myownwingman 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
To turn that around: To the average atheist, if you are with religion, you are without brains and therefore not a smart person.
But that is a true statement, isn't it?
[–]jim-_- 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
They are running on the idea of saying something enough times makes people think its true... so I can only conclude that atheists don't feel like repeating anything as a mantra. they way the bible was set up. (every sentence is numbered for repetition.)
[–]P0cketknife 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Verses were numbered when the bible began to be translated, to make sure the monks doing the translating didn't omit or repeat sentences. There are plenty of non-enumerated bibles, including mine.
[–]jim-_- 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I guess when they in church used to say (they probably still do I'm not there to verify tho) "find this exact verse and sentence and repeat it in unison" it confused me into believing thats what the numeration was for.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Because the large majority of Christians think that, but often will not admit to it. former theist here
[–]Daemonax 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Christians claim to be better because they're Christian though. So it's not unreasonable to expect them to live up to this claim.
No. Individuals you have met who call themselves Christians have said that. "Christians," as in the collective community of Christians, do not believe that being a Christian makes you a good person.
Christians, do not believe that being a Christian makes you a good person.
Sorry you're correct, thanks for the correction.
All Christians do claim though that to be a Christian you should try to live a life like that of Jesus', which in general is far more nice and accepting than that of the typical Christian (though even Christ did say at the end of one of his parables to bring those who did not want him as king before him and kill them).
[–]Dilettante 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
The Bible tells Christians to be good in no uncertain terms. The fact that many Christians don't or can't live up to that ideal is immaterial here. Does it make them flaming hypocrites? Heck, yeah. But in theory - and there's the rub - Christians ought to be good people, if they're following their religion scrupulously and thoughtfully, and that's where people get the idea.
[–]frenzyboard 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yeah, but weren't those puritans that hanged, burned, and crucified "witches" scrupulously and thoughtfully following their religion?
Religion is the problem, really. Faith and religion don't go hand in hand, you know. Religion implies a tradition rather than a teaching.
Right. Read again my comment saying that there are a lot of hypocrites. Even people who at the time believed they were doing good. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the fact that they were told to do good, and that's a big part of the Christian religion. Besides, the Puritan example isn't really fair - you have to judge people by the morality of the time. Pretty much 99% of people who lived in the middle ages or classical era would be considered barbaric by us today - Christian or otherwise. You really have to judge with a historical perspective in mind.
It's like saying "Rogers is about cable TV." "No," you say to me. "I only have their internet. In fact, I don't know anybody who has rogers cable. Rogers sucks." And I say to you, "okay, but it says right there on their sign, Rogers cable. They started out as a cable TV company. And they still sell cable. It may not be what you know them for, and not all their products have been cable-related, but they're still a cable company, and people - maybe not you, but people - are going to think of them as a cable company."
By the way, happy new year! I'm going to bed. :)
The Bible tells Christians to strive to be good and then how to deal with the reality that you will often fail to live up to your efforts, no matter how well-intentioned. It's a framework. When Christians do bad things, it doesn't make them hypocrites, it makes them humans.
[–]mitchrodee 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
It is possible to convey the message that atheists do some good stuff without attacking others.
[–]Tofuik 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
Understandable but its well within everyone's right to shit on Pat.
[–]HastyUsernameChoice 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Oh, I think it's pretty clear that the third panel isn't the same as the other kids - photoshop skillz are somewhat lacking.
[–]Ad_For_Nike -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 year ago*
Just to add some clarity to this poster but evangellical christians are not all bad. I remember seeing a interview dawkings did with a leading evangelical, and Dawkins conceded the debate to him, the guy managed to come off as a really nice person and rebutted well every point dawkins put toward him.
Tl;dr Not all evangellical christians are dicks. On a side note if anyones intrested in that interview I will gladly dig it up for you :)
[–]LilJimmyNordin 20 points21 points22 points 1 year ago
I guess it depends on your definition of "dick". Haggard lied to his tens of thousands of followers about secret drug use, and also campaigned against homosexuals while secretly engaging in homosexual acts. Sounds like a dick to me. Protip: When arguing in defense of Evangelical Christians, stay far clear of mentioning Ted Haggard if you want to maintain any credibility.
[–]BowlingisnotNam 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Glory, how he blew ya!
[–]americanadian 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Can you dig that up for me? I'm interested in watching it.
[–]Ad_For_Nike 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago*
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xemnvt_richard-dawkins-vs-ted-haggard_news
Dawkins came off to me as being a bit of a douche in this interview but it presents some intresting points. 4:10 for the interview. Its has some intresting dialogue but both sides come of as creepy at some points.
I think it raises some good discussion though.
[–]LilJimmyNordin 28 points29 points30 points 1 year ago
Wow. It's amazing how two people see the same thing completely differently. Haggard was talking out of his ass, Dawkins (maybe a bit testy), refuted Haggard's claim that "some evolutionists claim the eye developed by accident" (which is, of course, absurd), then Haggard tossed Dawkins out for "calling his children animals". At no point in the interview did Dawkins "concede" as far as I can see, and at no point did Haggard successfully refute anything Dawkins said.
[–]Idiomatick 12 points13 points14 points 1 year ago
Anyone else find it hilarious that the example of
Not all evangellical christians are dicks.
turns out to be Ted freaking Haggard?
[–]Daemonicus 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
LOL perhaps you had missed afterwards where Haggard became hostile towards Dawkins and his crew.
Apparently according to Dawkins, Haggard becam furious because Dawkins was promoting evolution and Haggard said his "children" (followers) were not monkeys.
Haggard actually argued pretty poorly, especially with the point he was trying to make with the whole "If only you knew the people I knew, and talked with the people I know" thing. That entire thing could be flipped around and applied to any religion which thinks it holds the ultimate truth. And he's trying to lump science into that... As if science is something that can't be tested and proved.
[–]PalinODonnell2012 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Not to get off topic....but wasn't Haggard the guy who was caught doin some PnP
[–]SashimiX 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Seriously. The guy is gay, campaigns against homosexuals, cheats on his wife with a prostitute, does drugs, and is listed as an example of someone who isn't a dick.
[–]dafones 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Huh, I thought Haggard came across as an ignorant blowhart, and Dawkins was rightfully irritated by his idiocy.
[–]Neoncow 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I wish we could get a complete unedited version of this. It's really hard to evaluate an edited debate. Haggard sounds like he's misinterpreting science and the goals of science, but of course we're seeing Dawkins' version.
[–]fragler 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I don't know if it was my browser or what the heck was going on, but that same advertisement came up every 2 minutes.
[–]Beefcake2008[S] 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
Richard Dawkins
FTFY
[–]satereader 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Certainly, it can't be said all [large group] members are bad people, whatever the group. I think the reason that atheists get up in arms about this issue is that atheists never claim to have some sort of monopoly on morality but many theists like Pat do make that claim. That needs to be addressed. It isn't merely wrong, it also encapsulates a hateful slur against the nonreligious.
[–]agnt007 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
No one is ever all bad. I don't know why you had to clarify that.
I'd have to say your characterization of the discussion between Dawkins and Haggard is quite off. Neither concedes anything.
As an example, rewatch the part that begins at 6:15 where the two are talking about evidence or contradictory information. At about 6:55 when Dawkins mentions the beauty of science is that there is information coming it all the time, Haggard begins to nod his head excessively, at one point glances off camera, and throughout this section says "yeah," "mmhmm," "right," and "exactly" as someone might when they aren't really listening to or analyzing what is said. Rather it seems that Haggard either knows what is coming or has already made up his mind and throws it away to continue saying what he was already going to say. Also, I'm not sure why Haggard is using hand gestures to identify the numbers 1 or 2. Usually that is done when someone is speaking to a group or talking with some sort of assumed authority over the other. In this same bit Haggard mentions that the bible is written by a group of about 40 authors, about 1500 years ago and has no contradictions to which Dawkins says: "It doesn't?".
Also, I just have to mention this: The claim that evolutionists believe that the eye developed by accident or through random processes is also a misscharacterization of what evolutionists believe. Evolutionists believe that through the process of natural selection--or another method that effects evolution--acting upon DNA over a long period of time has lead to the diversity of life we see today and those that we know existed in the past as per fossil evidence. This idea is backed up by numerous evidence and is accepted as fact by the majority of scientists. The idea that the world is billions of years old is also backed up by a large body of evidence, so that is also accepted as fact. If new, physical evidence (not revelation which can't always be checked) were to surface which indicated otherwise, then the above theories would be modified or a new one proposed. Modern science works with the assumption that processes occur naturally. This, in many people's experiences, is a rational assumption to make as you or I do not ever find evidence in our daily lives of something to the contrary occurring.
[–]Basilides 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago
While Pat Robertson is a cruel and heartless hypocrite,
Pat Robertson my be cruel and heartless. But he is no hypocrite. He is doing exactly what the Bible allows him to do.
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites (Christians) ruthlessly. (Leviticus 25)
The Bible says non-Christians are fair game and have no rights.
[–]ColumW 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I must correct you here, because Leviticus was not talking about Christians. It was talking about the jews in that time.
Even though Jesus says that Old Testament law is to be abided by, it's not accurate for you to put "Israelites (Christians)" as they are not interchangeable.
[–]Basilides 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Ah. But many Christians do consider Christians to be God's chosen people, the true Israelites. This is called Replacement Theology or Supersessionism!.
[–]kranchops 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
That's not true. God's chosen people are those who actually struggle to do God's work. Just being a Christian doesn't mean you are God's chosen. Christ says, "Many are called, few are chosen".
[–]Basilides 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Whether it's true or not, many Christians believe the Church replaces Israel as God's chosen.
[–]rappo 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Don't be hating on the evangellicals.
[–]geekay 16 points17 points18 points 1 year ago
what are they going to do? have a phone-a-thon to raise 1 million dollars to create a witty internet comeback?
[–]DoWhile 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
They'd probably come up with something like:
U evangelly?
[–]PleaseNotTheTruth 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Preach at you.
I'm fairly sure OP didn't make it. I've seen it here before.
[–]cynoclast 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Since when are PR campaigns sacred and not open to being used in derivative works?
While I agree that a little proofreading would have been nice, the addition extends well the point that being an atheist doesn't mean you can't be good, by adding that being a Christian doesn't make you good either.
[–]tautologies 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
..but if you love anecdotal evidence it is all good.
[–]lunacraz 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
you evangelly?
[–][deleted] 76 points77 points78 points 1 year ago
This is not the point of this campaign. It's not an atheists vs theists dick-measuring contest. The purpose of the campaign is to challenge non-believers to be outstanding, contributing members of their communities- not to say, "We're better than you, Chrisians. Suck on it!"
[–]LilJimmyNordin 23 points24 points25 points 1 year ago
No, that's not the purpose of the campaign. The purpose of the campaign is to refute the claim that one needs God to be moral and charitable. It's one of the main arguments religious people use to claim the necessity of religion, so showing examples presents evidence that the argument is without merit.
[–]naked_guy_says 18 points19 points20 points 1 year ago
BUT WE HAVE BIGGER DICKS!
One of the many benefits to evolving is the creation of big dicks
[–]bgaesop 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Only if they're sexually selected for. Gorillas, for example, average 2"
[–]jslcapital78 -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Each having two dicks or 2-inch dicks?
[–]Hootbot 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
They each have two, 2-inch dicks.
[–]DrBangalterDDS 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Well the tone of those posters needs to be changed substantially then, because that is exactly how they come off. Why not make absolutely zero mention of religion and wealth, and use good deeds done by common folk as examples? Secular doesn't mean anti-religion, it just means without regard to it.
This subreddit is pretty combative towards religion so I frankly don't see this happening.
[–]zachriah 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
constructive, isn't it?
[–]Pufflekun 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
However, saying "we're better than you, Christians. Suck on it!" does seem to be the point of this subreddit.
[–]ronizzlemcdizzle 18 points19 points20 points 1 year ago
Color me ignorant, but... are Warren Buffet and Bill Gates actually atheists?
[–]BowiesMagicDance 16 points17 points18 points 1 year ago
From my research, Buffet is agnostic. Gates isn't quite as clear, he doesn't really say one way or the other. Quote from 1995- "In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don’t know if there’s a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid."
So it sounds like he's agnostic as well.
[–]satereader 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
yes. It's also quite telling that Gates (and Buffett) have never given a dime to any religious charity.
[–]George_Burdell 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
Buffett is an agnostic. Gates isn't a Christian, and it appears he doesn't really follow any religion. You at the very least could call him an agnostic.
[–]hb_alien 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Wait a minute, I thought Gates was the Antichrist himself. When did that change?
Were you all fooled by his charity "work"? He did all that so he wouldn't have to pay taxes when he cashed out his stock. All that "charity" money is being funneled back to him so that he can continue building his secret tunnel to hell under his mansion in Redmond, WA.
So technically, "Without God" is right, but he's no atheist.
[–]SashimiX 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Didn't say they were atheists. Said they were "Good without God" ... which they are. Except Gate's unethical practices, of course.
[–]PredictableJoker 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I see it this way- He's a business man while he is conducting business. He's charitable while he is conducting a charity.
[–]ExogenBreach 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
In a country where parents will disown their children for coming out as atheists, publicly admitting to being "full" atheists could lose them both a huge number of customers through stupid boycotts and other such things. Easier for them to say they're "agnostic" (which atheist isn't?) and that lets the religious nuts read whatever they like into it.
[–]andrew_e 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
A quick check on Wikipedia seems to confirm Pat Robertsons dealings in Africa. I guess now nothing is going to surprise me about the hypocrisy of "men of faith and good morals".
[–]Hootbot 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I agree, religious people are inherently immoral. fapfapfap
[–]Nonethewiserer 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
What about the people who are good with God?
[–]Ilktye 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
Every time. It hits the front page every time.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
more times. i missed it the first few i guess.
[–]LostOverThere 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Guys, this hasn't been submitted for 9 hours. I think one of us needs to submit it again because I don't think any of us have actually seen it yet.
[–]Mr_Big_Stuff 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I'm not even mad at the submitter, I'm annoyed at the redditors who keep upvoting this every three weeks.
[–]dje243 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Also Pat Robertson is exactly the sort of person that Christ spent a lot of time yelling at/rebuking. Calling Pat Robertson a Christian is like calling Sarah Palin a maverick.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
The thing to keep in mind here is that it wasn't God that made Robertson evil - he was evil to begin with and used God to make his money.
[–]MySonIsCaleb 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
your statement reminds me of The Book of Eli when that bad guy wanted the Bible because of the power that would come with it.
[–]staugustine 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I'm a very orthodox Catholic, but I'm just going to throw this out there: I think that an atheist who gives selflessly is a better person than a nominal Christian who does nothing. And I live with the campus Pastafarian president--he does more charitable work than most Campus Crusade for Christ members I've encountered.
I think a lot of it comes down the the stupid idea that belief is all you need to be "saved." What is faith in God without the actions to back it up? Pat Robertson might as well not even call himself a Christian, based on the way he acts.
That being said, I really, really like the message of the original ad campaign. Not necessarily the addition--I think it sends the wrong message.
[–]Stair_Car[] 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
I don't like Pat Robertson at all, but I find it uncomfortable being asked to cheer for Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. Hurray for you, if you got your bloodthirsty opportunism out of the way before you gave your stolen lucre back to the people. I guess.
I'm just bitter against rich people.
[–]satereader 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
being bitter against the rich is a nice luxury. You know who doesn't have that luxury? people getting killed by malaria and polio right now. Maybe if that was you or your family, you'd be grateful someone, anyone was doing something to stop it.
[–]Stair_Car[] 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Yeah, but the thing is, those people are fatally poor because of people like Warren Buffet in the first place. Do you know, there are third world countries, like Ghana, that are net exporters of capital and liquid assets? England dismantled the industrial capacity of India and China in the 19th century to subsidize the growth of German and American industry. Africa made a huge investment in human capital in the western hemisphere without compensation. Resource-based economies continue to be drained of capital by the economies that hand their prices right back to them in the form of marked-up value added goods. And yet we still behave as if all these starving people in Africa are starving because the Hunger Fairy decided to whack them with her wand.
Using capital to mitigate the harmful effects of capital is not charity.
so yer tl;dr: I live in America, a capitalist nation.. so nothing I ever do for anyone can ever be charity or help anything. Gotcha. thanks.
[–]Stair_Car[] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I have no say in how you choose to interpret other people's words. Do as you please.
[–]Hootbot 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Killed thousands of his own people Caused savage famine in the Ukraine
Joseph Stalin is good without- oh wait no.
[–]Daemon_of_Mail 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
At least Pat Robertson is in favor of ending marijuana prohibition. ¯(º_0)/¯
[–]mr_bunnyfish 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Goddamn, how many times is this going to be reposted?
[–]Pieloi 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Must be the glasses.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Note: I noticed that the two on the top are different than the one on the bottom and figured it out (all by myself!) that someone added the last part.
Also, this is amusing. Thanks :)
[–]TheSunAlsoRises 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
This is silly and non sexual.
[–]Robamaton 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I agree that this is the wrong way to go about this, but it inspired me to look up details on Pat. His wikipedia page is something special.
[–]stackered 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Amen.
[–]kalacaw 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I do want to point out that a handful of people in the last church where I went, when I was still a Christian, bent over backwards on my behalf, and even the van I'm driving was a gift to me from that church. I sent them a check, but they did not request any donation at all. It's not a Pat Robertson kind of church, though, and those folks would not have been in his camp on the occasion of his remarks about Haiti. They would first have been concerned about the people of Haiti and their suffering, just as a mosque in Northern Virginia gave a sizable donation to Haiti during that time.
The people who helped me did so because they wanted to help. They actually were being good without God, and did what they did because of kindness. I just happened to know them through the church. They're Christians though, and please remember that Christians can be very loving. Not all are mean spirited. I have major problems with religiosity which does, in and of itself, tend to impede truly useful progress; but there are a few Christians out there I happen to love very much. Sometimes they do get involved, just not as many as could.
Atheists don't always do good either. When we do, we attach no conditions involving religion, but we should remember that there is no shortage of mean spirited Atheists who will happily leave someone bleeding and dying in a ditch on the side of the road.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
These arguments always fail to acknowledge that religion is the motivator for some charitable giving. A good example of this is Tzedakah, which is giving that is mandated under Jewish law. Charity is probably one of the best aspects of religion.
[–]magicmanfk 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
are you really being charitable if it is mandated?
Yes. Charity has etymological roots in religious text. On a more practical level: does the money given under the guise of religion not really count because the donations come from secular people? Was Mother Teresa not charitable?
[–]magicmanfk 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
yes, for practical purposes of course the money is good and equally helpful regardless of the intentions behind them. But I don't really see someone as charitable if they are being "forced" to give money. I think someone who gives money out of the goodness of their heart is much more "charitable" than someone who does it to glorify God.
Although I think that if you disagree with that it is simply because we are defining "charitable" slightly differently. I'm pretty sure we're on the same page regardless.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago*
I don't think that all religious people are being "forced" to give. I would definitely agree that there are some people who are only doing so to "glorify god", but religion isn't about glorifying god for god's sake; it's about becoming closer to god through the goodness of your actions. I'm not a religious person, but when I hear people talking about god, I think of it as being a higher moral power that they're (theoretically) serving, not a person in the sky who they're obeying out of fear (I'll admit that a lot of religious people do subscribe to this belief).
yeah, I never said that all religious people are "anything," as that would be a massive generalization no matter what you insert in it (except for maybe "religious"). But when people are giving because it is mandated (as I think you or someone else said) that is definitely a different motivation than doing it because you are a good person.
But of course there are religious people who are good people (many of them) and many good religious people who donate because there are good people regardless of or in addition to the fact that they see it as something mandated.
I'd still respect the reasons of an atheist who gives money much more than someone who does it to be closer to God though, even if it is through the goodness of their actions.
For the record... Mother Teresa was not charitable. She was a shameless fraud who traded in misery for her own personal benefit.
[–]Diggrefuge1 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Buffet is donating his money after he dies. I still think it's a "good" thing, but it's not like he's making some noble sacrifice.
[–]mouse_n_cat 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
People make things and/or trade/sell things for wealth. Mr. Buffett (trades) allocates capitals to where it is most efficiently used and grows, thus accumulated wealth. Mr. Gates shrewdly monopolized the PC software market before anyone else did, thus became very wealthy. Mr. Robertson sells religion for a living.
The market determines the value of the products/services each of these people provide.
I remember seeing something about incomes levels and levels of religiousness...I think, on average, the more money you have, the less you believe.
And yes, Pat is a douche bag. May God have mercy on his soul.
[–]40202 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
2 out of 3 play ukulele, guess which ones.
[–]AustraLucy 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Wellll according to Pats website,
Operation Blessing has provided nearly $500 million in aid -- which includes Operation Blessing donations and matching funds from other organizations -- to assist nearly 130 million people in 50 states and 71 foreign countries.
I'm sure he is a great man. His website says so.
[–]FlyingSpaghettiMan 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Aah, I see him on the discovery channel infomercials in the morning. He makes me sad.
[–]TrivialSolutions 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
28 15 "Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, 16 and I will give you rest. 29 17 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden light."
What does "humble of head" mean?
39 14 She had a sister named Mary (who) sat beside the Lord at his feet listening to him speak. 40 Martha, burdened with much serving, came to him and said, "Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me by myself to do the serving? Tell her to help me." 41 The Lord said to her in reply, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and worried about many things. 42 15 There is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part and it will not be taken from her."
Jesus had $20,000 worth of perfume poured on Him.
4 There were some who were indignant. "Why has there been this waste of perfumed oil? 5 It could have been sold for more than three hundred days' wages and the money given to the poor." They were infuriated with her.
6 "It will be as when a man who was going on a journey 7 called in his servants and entrusted his possessions to them. 15 To one he gave five talents; 8 to another, two; to a third, one--to each according to his ability. Then he went away. Immediately 16 the one who received five talents went and traded with them, and made another five. 17 Likewise, the one who received two made another two. 18 9 But the man who received one went off and dug a hole in the ground and buried his master's money. 19 After a long time the master of those servants came back and settled accounts with them. 20 The one who had received five talents came forward bringing the additional five. 10 He said, 'Master, you gave me five talents. See, I have made five more.' 21 His master said to him, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master's joy.' 22 (Then) the one who had received two talents also came forward and said, 'Master, you gave me two talents. See, I have made two more.' 23 His master said to him, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master's joy.' 24 Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, 'Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; 25 so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.' 26 His master said to him in reply, 'You wicked, lazy servant! 11 So you knew that I harvest where I did not plant and gather where I did not scatter? 27 Should you not then have put my money in the bank so that I could have got it back with interest on my return? 28 Now then! Take the talent from him and give it to the one with ten. 29 12 For to everyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 13 And throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.'
[–]natch 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Preaching to the choir. This kind of thing should be posted, at least crossposted, in r/Christianity.
[–]hindesky 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
ALL TELEVANGELIST (EVERY FuCKING ONE OF THEM) are only in it for the cash.. Edit - Lower case u
not this one. He's in it for crack.
[–]hindesky 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
sorry,my bad, only 99% are in it for the cash.
[–]Electrorocket 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Gates foundation supports Monsanto. Fuck that noise.
[–]ravewickly 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Once again this poster makes atheist a little bit like a five year old.
I think the poster should have added good Atheist and good Christians that help people.
You do not have to be rich to help people.
The way this poster comes off to Christians is that we are making fun of them.
Just for the record I'm a atheist and there is no God.
[–]The_Epic_One 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I thought this was cool until I read the third panel. Some people in general do heartless things with or without religion. As some people in general do amazingly good things, with or without religion.
[–]ILoveYouBro 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
There's good and bad in every type of group imaginable, for future reference.
[–]elimi 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
You guys remember what Gates did to get all that money? You honestly think any amount of money will buy back the "dark age" M$ created for the industry? He's giving out stuff he shouldn't have in the first place. He should start cleaning up all the bad stuff he (trough is company) did. Right now he's only cleaning is image and people are buying it :(
[–]Halladay 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago*
Halladay has been a redditor for 3 months and has over a thousand karma. Halladay is good without reposts.
[–]ColumW 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yeah, I was wondering if someone was going to point this out. Shame you're getting downvoted though.
[–]skinturtle 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago*
God gave his only begotten Son so that people could have life eternally.
His first born for an deserving world that hated him and still does.
And wait a minute...Bill Gates is good?
[–]three_dee 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago*
Big deal. He could have made as many sons as he wanted to. Plus, it's not like Jesus stayed dead. You people think he came back to life and went back up to heaven to be with God again. What kind of sacrifice is that?
Plus, why couldn't God just GIVE people eternal life if he wanted to? Why the need for all the blood and gore?
OK, I'm with you on that one.
So, what you are saying is, you believe Buffett and Gates are good men? You are ignorant.
Care to back that up? From what I understand, they're doing a whole lot of good with their money.. and encouraging other billionaires to do the same.
Define "good".
Atheist countries are good without God -- Soviet Russia and China.
[–]satereader 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
and Sweden, Finland, Germany, Japan.. UK is now majority atheist as well. soviet russia? really? So next you tell us how the Nazi's were atheists right? troll.
i assume everyone who upvoted this is going to give 99% of their wealth to charity too.
[–]Hoelt 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago*
I agree, but I think people equate Gates too strongly with goodness and authority because he has so much money. He is undoubtedly a moral/principled person, though.'
Paying money to charity isn't exactly a good measurement of the presence of morality, although it may be for the lack of morality when you get someone like Robertson. And with Gates' recent actions in educational reform (funding a propagandist film to push his own agenda, and publishing a study about test scores that had very circular reasoning), my doubts are even greater still.
[–]timothyjc 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Gates is moral? What about all those anti competition practices his company was found guilty of? And Buffet put 5 billion into Goldman Sachs who make their money off gaming the system, so I wouldn't paint a black and white picture of these men.
[–]sidneyc 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
He is undoubtedly a moral/principled person, though.
Why do you think so?
[–]DougieFFC 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Evangelical has one L in it. Apart from that well played.
[–]bgaesop 15 points16 points17 points 1 year ago
No it has two: Evangelical
[–]DougieFFC 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
.......well played.......
[–]George_Burdell 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I count two
Aren't you ignoring this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blessing_International
[–]palparepa 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
You mean this?
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago
If that bothers you then I suggest you do not look into the political dealings of the companies that Berkshire holds.
Ignoring the flaws of those you support while pointing out the flaws in those who you do not support is simply wrong. It is what they do.
We are better than that.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Who are 'we' and 'they'? Neither are nearly all the same.
[–]rib-bit 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
What does that have to do with the fact that Robertson hasn't donated any money?
[–]bgaesop 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I know I, for one, consider it a bit appalling for this ad campaign to consist of "Look at these capitalists! Look how much money they have! And they gave some of it to charity, aren't they awesome?"
[–]Idiomatick 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
...Some?
Yes, some. They certainly didn't give all of their money to charity. Even Warren Buffett is waiting until he's dead to donate the promised 99% of his money.
[–]bobdelany 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
99%
Doesn't that say enough?
When he's dead, it's not like he's going to have to struggle on without it.
[–]Grammar-Hitler 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Anti-capitalist is not satisfied, even after he gives 99% of it away. Think about that people. Think about what kind of a person wants everybofdy to give away 100% of their wealth.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
As you can see from the OBI annual financial report, it doesn't publish benefactors, nor does it say anywhere how much Pat Robertson donates.
Also, how does a panel of Charity administrators spend nearly $1.4 million in one year.
0.3 % of donations going to admin is actually very good. They are a nearly 500 million per year operation. This information was on the page you linked which makes me wonder why you posted like you did.
The ACLU and lots of other non-profits have higher % rates.
[–]bratfap 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
The ACLU isn't into blood diamonds, though. And most work they do is based on expertise, which requires knowledge, which explains the higher administrative costs.
Doesn't it require experience to manage a nearly 1/2 billion world wide org?
[–]bratfap 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Nope. Looks like its doing more direct service stuff, which is fine. It just doesn't take much money to do it.
[–]Intact 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Secular Samatarian
New meme, anyone?
[–]Levit0 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Awesome.
[–]ukepriest 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
This is Christian quality propaganda.
Nice job.
[–]nealio1000 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are atheists?
Maybe, but the point of the top two actual campaign posters is that you can be good and charitable without using religious organizations. It is not saying not to give to religious organizations, merely that you can (and should) be charitable regardless of your beliefs. That last poorly edited in mspaint poster is just some faggotry some one came up with to get karma in /r/atheism.
I completely agree. When I read that The Salvation Army was threating to close down on account of some gay marriage thing and that they throw out certain donations (like harry potter or twilight related items) because of their religious beliefs it really upset me. I may not agree with religion on many levels but when it helps promote good morals thats something no one can be against. But, when a charitable organization decides to not help others due to religious standards something is seriously wrong.
Clearly, you shouldn't give to a charity that you don't support. Giving is good.
Thats why i go to my local consignment shop instead of Salvation Army
[–]hounvs 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Plus his name is close to Robert Pattinson. /cringe
[–]Akdag 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I thought both warren and bill were agnostic
[–]imamusician16 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Am I the only one that read that as Rob Pattinson? Ugh..
edit: grammar
[–]confused_dragon 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Evangellical Evangelical: FTFY
[–]AdamLovelace 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Every day is repost day.
Still, a good graphic.
[–]ManifestWisdom 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
You can't take your money with you, but you can send it on ahead.
[–]tdcthulu 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
TIL that Robertson is a huge dick
As me being a Christian, I think many Christians that are in high powers aren't really "christians"... They molest childeren.....Take Money.... and Take advantage of their power.... Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Also I find out that atheists tend to be friendlier and more kind in person.
[–]dregofdeath -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
...and Stalin was bastard too ... come on guys we are above this
Apparently not.
[–]Beefcake2008[S] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
I just want to clarify something here: I didn't create this or any part of it. All I did was find it and I thought it was interesting and pretty neat. Bitch about it, Applaud it, do whatever, just don't be bitching at me because I didn't create it. This was just something that shows the hypocrisy of "men of God", so I decided to share it. All credit should go to the original creators of the add and whoever altered it....I wonder if that means we should worship them?
[–]Idiomatick 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Did you find it here http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/top/ ...
The 9th most voted for reddit post iin atheism?
[–]Beefcake2008[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
No I found it through a link someone sent me on facebook and i figured i would share it. Thanks for the subreddit link though.
[–]Gentleness 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Interesting, but still not convincing me of much.
[–]TheChronicCrusader 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
WTF. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are not good people. Nobody who has that much money is a good person. It's called hoarding, and it makes others suffer as a direct result.
[–]thallazar 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
No it makes them business men, don't be hating on people because they had a talent that was useful and a drive to be successful
[–]nerdhappy 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
So 66.6% of all people are atheists, and they're all good, and 33.3% of people are christians, and they're all bad. Got it.
:|
I don't believe that charity measures morality. Charity only patches rather than fixes the problem. I think that their extreme amount of wealth could be set forth for far more things than charity, if they really wanted to be "good". I also don't think Gates and Warren are true atheists...
This is not necessarily the case. For example polio was largely cured thanks to the institutions created by Rockefeller grants. If you look into it, you will see that much money from Gates/Buffett has gone into strategic long-term goals like producing & distributing vaccines. They've put tons into AIDS vaccine research for example.
[–]LibertariansLOL 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Good without seeing this repost make the frontpage every week.
[–]maniacripper 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
As a Catholic can I remind everyone to please not take Pat Robertson seriously, no one else does.
Lol@attack ads.
As a Christian, I have no problem with this ad campaign. I applaud anybody willing to do good, and have a lot of respect for the campaign begun by Gates and Warren. And I'm equally outraged by Robertson and others who just seem to collect money for their own sake, given by people who honestly believe it will bring salvation or help the needy.
[–]lowercasepeople49 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I wonder why this was downvoted.
[–]chrislouden 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I'm so fucking sick of this being promoted. Bill Gates is NOT "good without God"... #BULLSHIT
[–]Herostratus -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
Look at the types of charities these guys give to though. Gates Foundation pushes population control, including tricking people into becoming sterilized via vaccination. Watch this video where he lets it slip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET0UAdzQkpQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRdVEiFZi9E&feature=related
And Warren Buffet also puts his money to reducing the worlds population.
http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/mos/mos_07billionaires.html
I hate to break it to you guys, but this is some evil fucking shit. Eugenics style. Hitlerian. Catch my drift. I'm no Jesus freak, in fact, I'm against organized religion and lean more towards spirituality, but seriously, don't spread propaganda about how these serious assholes are some kind of modern saints. They're not.
[–]ljvillanueva 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Population control is not as bad as it sounds. If you educate women and provide good health care it results in less births per woman, reducing the growth of the population. Everybody wins.
There is no need to demonize this.
tricking people into becoming sterilized via vaccination
Vaccination is one thing, sterilization is another. That video takes statements out of context and ask who is going to get killed. Basic population math says you reduce # of kids/woman and you get less people. Is that simple.
[–]Herostratus 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
And just like the religious, you prefer to remain blind to something that goes contrary to pre-establised belief. Look more into it. Those are his words. I'll bet you didn't spend more then 5 minutes researching this. The statements are not out of context. The context is reducing CO2 emissions. A solution offered is to reduce population through vaccination. That says it all. Learn how to read between the lines. The good Germans of the 30s didn't believe their leaders capable of such things either. Learn your fucking history.
[–]red-dit 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Those are the worst fucking videos I have ever been linked to from reddit.
By the way, he says that population tends to go down when people are vaccinated. Generally people stop having so many babies when there isn't a need for them and this happened without forced sterilization. A good example is Iran where the average family size shrank a lot in recent years. Bill Gates never said anything about eugenics, those videos are just out of context little blips of sensationalism.
how does population go down when people are vaccinated? i don't see the connection.
[–]red-dit 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
"ZAKARIA: I know you've read the book, "The Bottom Billion," by Paul Collier. And he talks about the bottom billion of the world trapped in about 50 countries that are just not reforming, that are not getting their act together in various ways.
Does it make sense to give money to those governments to try to reform those educational systems or health systems?
GATES: Well, the most exciting thing I learned when I was just getting into philanthropy was that, if you reduce childhood deaths, if you improve health in a society, that, surprisingly, population growth goes down. And that's because a parent needs to have some children survive into adulthood to take care of them when they're old.
And so, if they think having six children is what they need to do to have at least two survive, that's what they'll do. And amazingly, across the entire world, as health improves, then the population growth actually is reduced.
And there's a miracle intervention, which is vaccines. In 1960, over 20 million children died. In 2005, less than 10 million died. And that's despite much larger global population."
Exactly. Since Gates was a prick at MS, he must be a prick now. Only someone ignorant of how populations behave could have come up with this nonsense.
Hey man I didn't make the vids, I just linked the segment that were on topic, full vids available as well. One is a TED talk the other a CNN interview. I would link text that goes more in depth, but from experience I know that the response will be TLDR, so vid sound bite, something the lazy masses can digest is what I provide. I'm not here to Karma whore myself out, I'm here should there actually be an open minded person amongst the atheist crowd, a very rare thing indeed. How long did you spend looking into the veracity of this? There is more on the topic. Just as Morpheus said to Neo:
"I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."
[–]red-dit 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
I did some random googling and then watched one of the TED talks he did for malaria but by the time I realized it wasn't the relevant one I had spent more time than I wanted to. I'll see if I can find the relevant video later. Do you have any non-soundbite links?
Edit: Here is a quote:
VACCINATION USED TO STERILIZE
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2004/mar/04031101
http://www.rense.com/general79/vaxcc.htm
http://www.whale.to/m/sterile.html
AFRICANS REFUSE VACCINATION
http://www.truth-it.net/africans_refuse_vaccinations.html
FORCED VACCINATION IN AFRICA
http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=50215
GATES FOUNDATION PUSHING SOY
http://www.biosafetyafrica.net/index.html/index.php/20100901330/Soya-Gates-Foundation-Cargill-Paper/menu-id-100025.html
http://www.biosafetyafrica.net/index.html/images/stories/dmdocuments/Soya_Push_in%20Africa.pdf
HIV POSITIVE FORCE STERILIZED
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/sterilized-stigmatized/article1181722/
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/node/10529
THE BLACK HOLOCOST PT 1 (the rest is linked from that one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Eist3wn0s&feature=related
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