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[–]Nerdlinger 258 points259 points ago

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Look, nobody in their right mind is OK with that black hat/brown jacket combo.

[–]underdog138 40 points41 points ago

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I also take offense on behalf of the gothic community. There's nothing wrong with people waering leashes and chains and listening to Marilyn Manson.

[–]alecb 14 points15 points ago

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Sigh, if only there was a Guantanamo for fashion faux pas....

[–]peturh 4 points5 points ago

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Not to mention the black shoes and brown belt.

[–]AtheismFTW 0 points1 point ago

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Don't worry, he'll get a black tip soon enough.

[–]121221223 4 points5 points ago

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They are so 20@9.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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And the bondage/s+m look lost its "shock factor" a long time ago.

[–]stesch 129 points130 points ago

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A bit funny that many religious blacks in California voted against gay marriage.

[–]Ash09[S] 86 points87 points ago

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yes, it's just sad

[–][deleted] 115 points116 points ago

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"Man, being free and having equal rights is AWESOME!" eyes other group "now hold on just a second you guys...."

[–]sutcivni 11 points12 points ago

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Let's not get carried away...

[–]scrumpydoo23 41 points42 points ago*

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It's funny, because that's what their ancestors said.

[–]xinu[!] 8 points9 points ago

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its like a history lesson come to life!

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]b33r 34 points35 points ago

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http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

70% of African American voters were in favor of Prop 8.

[–]Reverberant 6 points7 points ago

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[–]zubzub2 7 points8 points ago

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I looked at the report; the follow-up study that you did surveyed a far smaller number of people than did the exit polls (266 black, Latino, and Asian-American voters, see page 2, without any breakdown of how many polled were black -- if in proportion to the population, probably a minority of these), whereas the numbers b33r is citing are the official exit poll numbers.

That being said, it certainly could be true that doing a large-scale study would yield different results.

The blog page that you link to does make one good point, though -- it's not fair to solely blame "black voters" for passing Proposition 8 -- they're only 7% of the voting populace in California. Age and religion make up a larger component of the voting populace. Also, the report makes another valid point -- blacks are demographically more religious as measured by frequency of attendance at religious services than any other US ethnic or racial group -- and this is probably a big part of the relevant numbers.

[–]likeahurricane 1 point2 points ago

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Exit polls also told us John Kerry was going to be president...

Not saying the study is any more accurate, just that exit polling data is crap.

[–]Reverberant 0 points1 point ago

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the follow-up study that you did

Just a clarification - I did not do this study, I just found the link on google. (IOW, I'm not Ta-Nehisi Coates, Patrick J. Egan, or Kenneth Sherrill).

whereas the numbers b33r is citing are the official exit poll numbers.

The exit poll methodology that CNN used had some problems as ell, namely that the polls were conducted at "random" precincts but blacks are only found in significant numbers in a few CA precincts.

This is not so say that blacks did not vote in large numbers for Prop 8, all the data seem to indicate that they did, I'm just trying to point out the the "70%" number isn't right.

[–]cohesion 6 points7 points ago

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here is some details from fivethirtyeight, http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html

tl;dr: not super true

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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All this is saying is that first-time voters who voted for Obama voted against Prop 8. African Americans as a whole still voted for it by a large margin.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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Yes sorry to say I just talked with someone I know (he's black), and he defended the Jews as "the best slave owners".

I lol'ed then I cried.

[–]play3393 2 points3 points ago

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I don't think it's funny at all.

[–]stesch 6 points7 points ago

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I wanted to say "ironic", but then we would rather discuss the definition of it.

[–]jackolas 1 point2 points ago

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Could have said queer.

[–]harlows_monkeys 1 point2 points ago

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You could have left the word "religious" out of that without affecting the validity of the observation. Gay people do not get much of a welcome in other minority communities.

The black supremacists (yes, they exist) even tend to claim that there was no homosexuality in Africa--homosexuality is a white thing, and so any gay black person is a traitor to their race.

[–]powercow -5 points-4 points ago*

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Well it is somewhat explainable.. in the fact that the african american community is struggling "family" creation issues. They have a higher percentage of single parent families and dont like that stat. You recall the million man march.. which was mainly about getting black men to promise to take care of their responsibilities as family men.

I'm not saying this is a good excuse to vote for oppression.. but right now they are in a fight for traditional families and see things that arent traditional as a threat to that goal.

Not being black.. this is just a theory of mine.

[–]Reverberant 9 points10 points ago

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They have a higher percentage of single parent families and dont like that stat.

..

Not being black.. this is just a theory of mine.

??

As the Official Representative of Black America I can guarantee you that the views of blacks on gay marriage have absolutely nothing to do with black single-parent statistics.

[–]powercow 0 points1 point ago

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dont wish to expand? It is just somethign that baffled me so i made a theory from my limited experience.. your down votes and stupid comment dont really help educate me or change my mind.. so what the fuck is your point?

I'm sorry if i have seen many instances of the african american community trying to save the traditional family and conflated that with right wing christian extremest goals to do the same.. Perhaps you could drop the jokes and explain your point.

[–]Reverberant 1 point2 points ago

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What is there to explain? I never heard a black person say "the number of single-parent black families really bothers me... I think I'll go hate on some gays to make up for it."

When black folk talk about the 'traditional family" it's never been in the sense of the "traditional family = one man + one woman" it's always been in the sense of "if you're going to knock boots and produce offspring, please remember that full time mother + full time father = successful kids." What other families do has never entered into the equation.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points ago

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I cannot believe in a God who will not let me eat shrimp or lobster. How can you create something so tasty and then forbid me from eating it?

[–]userax 32 points33 points ago

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It's to test your faith, silly. Like everything else in the world.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points ago

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What tests my faith is waiting for my shrimp and lobster. Why have you forsaken me oh! Lord!

[–]davidreiss666 8 points9 points ago

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Well, obviously you don't understand the bible. You see, shrimp and lobsters are the real chosen species. The role of humans is to to make sure no other creatures on the planet harm the shrimps or lobsters.

[–]ericarlen 1 point2 points ago

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I've heard that people taste like chicken.

[–][deleted] 133 points134 points ago*

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As a gay man I am really tired of gay, Christian, Bible apologists who argue the Bible is anti-gay because of errors in translation. The Bible is very obviously as anti-gay as it is anti-female, anti-shrimp, anti-lobster and pro-slavery. It is a loathsome, arrogant text of the Bronze age that should in no way remain relevant in our times. There is really no going around Biblical homophobia; If you are gay, and in need of spirituality you should choose some belief system that doesn't loathe your very existence.

I guess the traditional religions go out the window then.

[–]massiveboner911 11 points12 points ago

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Well spoken.

[–]davidreiss666 38 points39 points ago

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Well, to be fair... the bible could be interpreted as pro-shrimp and pro-lobster. After all, if you were a lobster one of your greatest nightmares would involve somebody with a big vat of boiling water and liquefied butter.

Maybe that was it -- we aren't supposed to kill, cook and eat the gays. Maybe it's just a huge issue with the modern accepted interpretation.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points ago

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You are correct, it is Anti-eating shrimp and lobster.

[–]will_itblend 3 points4 points ago

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Perhaps 'lobster and shrimp', in ancient Aramaic, were slang terms for the penis and the clitoris.

[–]Haemogoblin 6 points7 points ago

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Oh man, just put that lobster right in my boiling pot; I'll handle the shrimp.

[–]lungfish59 4 points5 points ago

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Some confused Greeks thought the Jews must worship pigs, since they refused to kill and eat them.

[–]OsakaWilson 1 point2 points ago

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True. If the Shrimp/Lobster Lobby had any money, I'm guessing they would be pouring cash into the pockets of politicians who take a literal interpretation of the bible.

[–]Jynx1989 10 points11 points ago

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In leviticus where it says "man shall not lie with man" it also says "a man shall not lie where a women has bled" Which of course means i would be going to a red tent every month but what i don't get is if being gay is so much a sin, isn't being in the same bed with a women on her period Just the same? how come there isn't being a law passed?

[–]cohesion 9 points10 points ago

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amen! :) it really is silly, it's not a translation error, it's just depressing that people need to believe that...

[–]IConrad 20 points21 points ago

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No, it is a translation error. The error being that it was ever translated, as opposed to burned for kindling, you see.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points ago

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I think the Bible deserves an important place amongst literature from the ancient world. It should be studied and regarded as Greek and Roman mythology. It should not be the foundation of our society's morality.

[–]IConrad 10 points11 points ago

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Well, yes. In all honesty, that's certainly fair enough. I was mostly engaging in hyperbole.

[–]viceroy_eric 3 points4 points ago

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I am kind of wary of anyone saying any book should be burned for any reason.

[–]buu700 2 points3 points ago

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That's very unChristian of you. Do you not wish to see at least the sinful warlock known as Potter purged from our great society?

[–]gaso 4 points5 points ago

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The bible is the inerrant word of god himself. Christians can't be held accountable that their god is a moronic, contradictory douche-bag.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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I can't believe in something that is anti-bacon.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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Buddhism?

[–]pumpkin_gypsy 1 point2 points ago

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Perfectly put.

[–]DSLJohn 1 point2 points ago

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in need of spirituality you should choose some belief system that doesn't loathe your very existence.

That's the challenge, huh? My wife is as liberal as I am, maybe even more. She is incredibly pro-gay rights, as are my kids. But she feels the need to have some type of religion in her and the kids life. She chose to do a very liberal form of Christianity, which I contend is rooted in beliefs that so contradict her own. Yet, there isn't really a fitting substitution.

[–]bgaesop 0 points1 point ago

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Which really liberal branch?

[–]DSLJohn 2 points3 points ago

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United Church of Christ, I can't pin down what they actually believe in. But it is very progressive and liberal, very inclusive.

[–]MBlume 2 points3 points ago

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I grew up in that branch, which is why I never had a youthful, angry, rebellious break with Christianity, just a gradual dawning realization that it wasn't, y'know, true. Still have great memories from church.

[–]bgaesop 2 points3 points ago

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I'm a fan of the Quakers, personally. They're the only branch I've seen that actually practices things like pacifism

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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I'm starting to think that there's a distinct correlation between the release of Brokeback Mountain and the prevalence of gay cowboys. I might not have a large enough sample space though.

[–]xardox 6 points7 points ago

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Well how large is your sample space, and how many gay cowboys have you sampled with it?

[–]will_itblend 0 points1 point ago

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I assume the same thing when they are dressed like cops!

[–]libbrichus 15 points16 points ago*

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So is it okay with the half depicting gay BDSM or the half where a cowboy is passing a note to the other cowboy?

[–]jgreen44 29 points30 points ago*

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Where does it say God is into bondage?

Oh, never mind. I just realized. Yahweh's safe word is, "Jesus Christ!"

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago*

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Can't be, thats himself.

Yahweh's safe word is "Chosen Race". Once he utter it, the universe need to stop fucking around.

(Edited for the Giggles)

[–]MaxBro 17 points18 points ago

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The Bible's against country music? I think I'm going to have to reconsider everything now.

[–]xinu[!] 5 points6 points ago

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the bibles allowed to get one right now and then

[–]Stormwatch36 17 points18 points ago

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Guess what type of sentence ends with a question mark.

[–]will_itblend 2 points3 points ago

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A question.

No,srsly, a question?

An interrobang?!

[–]Stormwatch36 3 points4 points ago

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An interrobang you say‽

[–]patcito 7 points8 points ago

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If you want to see the reply from a christian and have some fun, check it here http://identi.ca/conversation/18125963

[–]desmo 0 points1 point ago

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Wow you have punched those idiots so many times they dont know what has hit them. I cant believe the retorts to your facts and links. Talk about move the goal posts when you corner them. The classic was about learning hebrew, what a fucken cop out.

[–]wickedcold 1 point2 points ago

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It doesn't say gays should be put to death-you choose to think it does.

So apparently its not that they want gays put to death, just men who have sex with other men. They're making a distinction. How clever.

[–]badjoke33 12 points13 points ago

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I don't know when to use question marks?

[–]will_itblend 1 point2 points ago

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I don't know too!

[–]will_itblend 4 points5 points ago

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WTF does the bible have against cowboys?

Oh wait...never mind.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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It's pretty obvious that churches invent false moral theories to control their parishioners. How else are they going to make money if not by inventing hell and then offering a "cure for hell"? By working like the rest of us? Are you fucking nuts?

[–]will_itblend 5 points6 points ago

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Q: What's the difference between the 'priests' and the politicians?

A: The 'priests' have known how to get away with a lot more corruption, for ages.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Have an orangered on me.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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Some here are claiming the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality. God's real issue is "wasted seed".

Regardless, you'd figure the lord god almighty, infinite creator of the universe could write with less ambiguity. Let me help him out:

"Look Israel, your ejaculate is really important to me. It must go in a chick's ax wound. If you put it anywhere else, I'll fucking end you."

[–]will_itblend 5 points6 points ago

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Look Israel, your ejaculate is really important to me

Sounds like the 'lord' was himself a homo!

[–]bustedagain 0 points1 point ago

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It's for IVF. You think the virgin birth was miraculous? Oh no sonny jim ...

[–]will_itblend 0 points1 point ago

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She told her parents it must have been a fucking ghost.

[–]wesmwatson 2 points3 points ago

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I want to make a gay joke about the two shirtless black guys in chains but I would feel like such a douche.

[–]bna1820 2 points3 points ago

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But..but..the Bible supports a nice kind of slavery! One where the owner must treat the slaves very nicely, and one where the slaves have a chance to be free! ... Honest!

[–]drodspectacular 2 points3 points ago

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I want this made into postcards for the next holiday season.

[–]db2 1 point2 points ago

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Okay, so the mostly-white slightly-black people are supposed to be fresh-from-Africa slaves? Did the crew of the ship spend several lifetimes in the villages first lightening up the skin of their soon-to-be-kidnapped prey?

[–]nopaniers 1 point2 points ago

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[–]fij 0 points1 point ago

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I see your Exodus 21:16 and raise you Exodus 21:20-21:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

(Emphasis mine)

[–]three141592653589 1 point2 points ago

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It certainly gets the point across, but I think it would be more powerful if the image on the right was of a gay couple that emphasized their love for each other rather than the stereotypical gay fashion cowboys. Anyone feel like ammending it?

[–]frogmeat 1 point2 points ago

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Was this poster made for people who've never looked inside a Bible?

[–]jherazob 1 point2 points ago

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That's almost all christians

[–]kublakhan1816 3 points4 points ago

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I doubt many people will say this but the bible can be used and was used to argue against slavery. religous people were very much involved in the abolitionist movement. And this carried over to the arguments made by Martin Luther king during the civil rights movement.

[–]derleth 25 points26 points ago

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I doubt many people will say this but the bible can be used and was used to argue against slavery.

Indeed it was. It was used to defend both sides of that argument. It has been, in fact, used to defend both sides of just about every moral argument Christians have ever faced. So how can such a document be anyone's moral compass when it can be anything you want it to be? What use is a moral compass when it always points towards "I'm right and you're wrong"?

[–]kergeten 2 points3 points ago

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Give this man a prize.

[–]kublakhan1816 0 points1 point ago*

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I agree with what you're saying. You did a better job than I did explaing why the poster is nonsense. Indeed. Give this man a prize. The bible can easily be used to defend gay relationships and condemn slavery. See with documents like the bible, it requires interpretation and study. That doesn't make it of lesser value than any other thing. The constitution of the US is a good example. Its words have been used to both liberate and harm. The last 200 years of American history and the debates and disagreements by intelligent men and women do not take away from the fact that the constitution has been a good roadmap and compass.

[–]dimensional_dan 3 points4 points ago

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Derleth was saying that the Bible is useless because it is ambiguous and contradictory, not that it should be studied to find true meaning. It's a rubbish book that we have morally surpassed.

It's the self contradictory and erroneous nature of the Bible that allows it to be used on both sides of an argument, such as slavery. Personally, I think there is way more evidence to support slavery in the Bible than there is to combat it, and likewise homosexuality is hard to support as a real Bible following Christian.

[–]kublakhan1816 -1 points0 points ago*

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I don't understand how you can say it contradicts itself and say there is one real interpretation for the real bible following Christian, a la your statement about homosexuality. through time, the antislavery interpretation won out. So it's really academic to even point to any passages that justify slavery--you aren't arguing against anyone.

[–]dimensional_dan 1 point2 points ago

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Anti slavery did not win out because people sat around and discussed what the Bible really meant. Slavery died out because sectarian morality overtook religious values.

[–]derleth 0 points1 point ago

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See with documents like the bible, it requires interpretation and study.

So which parts do we study and which do we 'interpret' (ignore)? Don't those parts change over time?

The constitution of the US is a good example. Its words have been used to both liberate and harm.

The Constitution has never been ambiguous on the topic of slavery: It was for it prior to the Civil War, then it was amended to be against it afterwords. That is the honest way of doing things, as opposed to re-interpreting it and magically finding out that it agreed with the correct side the whole time.

This is why I think the Conservapedia Bible Project is honest, despite the fact the people doing it have no idea how to do it right: They're putting down in words the holy text they actually follow, as opposed to deliberately misreading and ignoring the text to support their positions. I wish every religious group would write their own holy text and amend it as their views changed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I thought it was pretty interesting what the original Martin Luther had to say:

This

[–]ctsoccer13 3 points4 points ago

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I'm confused... they both look the same to me. One is two black men doing a little BDSM and the other is two white men walking down a catwalk...

Is this a test of racism? I'm onto you...

[–]moonflower 1 point2 points ago

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the issue of the OT laws keeps coming up again and again in r/atheism but just because those laws were written and just because some people believe they really were the word of god, doesn't prove anything about the existence of any god ...

i am starting to think that the most productive and useful debate with those who try to uphold those laws, is not to debate the existence of god, but to debate whether any worthwhile god would make such laws ... there's no need to take people's god away from them, just encourage them to be discerning with what they read, and ask themselves if they would really conclude that the OT was the word of god if no-one had told them such a thing

[–]dimensional_dan 0 points1 point ago

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It doesn't disprove the existence of God as such but it does lead one to believe one of two things:

a) The Christian god does not exist. There is still room for God, but the self contradictory and morally inferior being described in the OT probably doesn't exist. God as described by Christians can not both be good and have a moral code which seems in places to be evil. That He does not exist is the simplest way to resolve the otherwise critical self contradictions.

b) God has a significantly different moral code than we do, which is hard to justify given that we're created in his image.

c) The Christian god does exist, but the Bible has been changed by man, and the original message has been lost or diluted to the point where the Bible is no longer an accurate reflection of His message. In which case Christianity has stopped being an accurate reflection of the Christian god, which is another way to say that the god that the Christians believe in does not exist.

God could exist, but I find the Christian explanation of Him to be very unsatisfactory.

[–]moonflower 2 points3 points ago

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i resolved the dilemma by firstly rejecting the biblical god entirely, but years later, realised there was still a desire for all the good things about believing in some kind of spiritual guidance and heaven, so i'm rebuilding my faith with a new type of god, and she did not dictate any laws :)

[–]dimensional_dan 2 points3 points ago

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I think that is perfectly reasonable. There is definitely something in the human psyche that seeks the spiritual. The only thing I would say to you is your spirituality should reflect reality and not just be an exercise in wish-thinking.

[–]moonflower 2 points3 points ago

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that beautifully describes how i feel, ''something in the human psyche that seeks the spiritual'' ... i would say my new beliefs are founded on a clear view of reality, with a simultaneous indulgence of the wishful thinking, meaning that even while one part of my mind is communing with spirit, the other part is aware that it is an illusion, like looking at a rainbow and enjoying it's beauty while knowing it is not really there

[–]dimensional_dan 1 point2 points ago

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Fair enough, nice description.

[–]IConrad 0 points1 point ago

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The passages endorsing slavery exist in the NT as well. Also, the passages condemning homosexuality exist in the NT as well.

Saying "The OT did it!" Like the OT was some sort of Simpsons rip-off just doesn't fly.

[–]moonflower 1 point2 points ago

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oh ok, replace everything i said about OT with ''bible'' and it still stands, the point i am making is exactly the same, whatever book it was in

[–]illskillz 2 points3 points ago

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The same is true for America's founding fathers (along with the vast majority of the human race prior to the 1800's)

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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[–]spitz 0 points1 point ago

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Validating the fallibility of humans.

[–]lungfish59 1 point2 points ago

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Not all the founding fathers were pro-slavery. Since many fundies treat the Fabulous Furry Founding Fathers as saints, they get all upset when you say bad things about 'em. You can find a vigorous defense here:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g003.html

Of course in the end, they were willing to compromise to get the Constitution signed. That means, they were willing to allow large numbers of people in the United States to be stripped of all human and civil rights and to be treated as mere chattel in perpetuity -- in order to form a "more perfect union."

The aristocracy simply couldn't live under the Articles of Confederation any longer with the threat of another Shay's Rebellion hanging over their heads. Property must be protected!

[–]ludditte 1 point2 points ago

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As I live in a country where gay marriage is a right, and the fact that in my province catholicism is still the religion (not that anybody still goes to church) the drawing feels poignant. As far as the whole discussion by andon about the exact meaning, he is the only one arguing his point. It is clear to everybody that the same people who use the bible to stop giving equal rights to gays are the descendants of the people who used the bible to defend slavery and later the apartheid laws of the USA.
If the priests, bishops and cardinals actually believed anything in the bible, they would not stand accused of rape and pedophilia all over the world. If they believed their book, it stands to reason they would know they will suffer an eternity in hell.

[–]andon 1 point2 points ago

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And I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I started originally by providing a valid point - it is not what the bible is okay with, but what the people who read the bible are okay with. The bible is merely a book - a misinterpreted book. My whole point has been about the connotation of the bible and its original text, not those who use it (or misuse it via faulty translations.)

People will keep doing what they want to do, regardless, and they will find the means, reasons, or excuses to do so.

[–]wsuBobby 1 point2 points ago

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Anyone mind sharing the two bible passages these are referencing?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

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Well, for the gay side, you've got Romans 1:26-27. As for slaves? Well, there are certainly a lot of passages to choose from, but here's a random one.

[–]wsuBobby 0 points1 point ago

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Sweet thanks.

[–]groundround 0 points1 point ago

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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So I guess it's OK to own slaves, but not to trade them. Great.

[–]groundround -2 points-1 points ago

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If you look at the slaves in the image, they are in chains. This means they're stolen. The OP should have made that with a picture of a plantation but it doesn't elicit the same effect as a chained up man that has been stolen.

[–]IConrad 4 points5 points ago

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Except the slave-owners in those shots actually did buy them, and from neighboring countries.

The Bible has no "fruit of a poisoned tree" policy when it comes to purchasing goods. If you buy something legitimately from someone who stole it, then it's yours fair and square. Chained slaves is "kosher" here.

[–]nopaniers 0 points1 point ago

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Where you are getting that from? What's the verse which says that stolen property is legitimately yours if you buy it?

[–]IConrad 0 points1 point ago

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Other way around. There's no verse that says it isn't legitimately yours if you buy it.

It's called being a bona fide purchaser. So long as the purchaser doesn't know they are receiving stolen goods (and mind you, that's "know" in the legal sense) then they -- in many states in the US anyhow -- are the legal holders of title for the property in question. As opposed to having committed reset, to reference Scottish law. (Wikipedia trips are fun, by the way.)

[–]fij 0 points1 point ago

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Interesting:

We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious

Be righteous and exempt?

[–]groundround 0 points1 point ago

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You still don't sin. If you steal from your parents, they probably won't call the police because they love you and know you love them and because of that relationship, will be eager to reconcile. If you steal from a stranger, they probably will call the law on you.

http://kjv.us/romans/6.htm

[–]Logg 1 point2 points ago

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[–]eimikion 1 point2 points ago

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Bible is against SM relationts between black people? Truly it is holy book.

[–]sciz 0 points1 point ago

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This may well blow the republican Christian fundies mind!

[–]Pea_Tear_Griffin 0 points1 point ago

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So our choices are gay white cowboys and gay black guys into S&M?

[–]EdinburghMovers 0 points1 point ago

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Who cares what the church is all right with. Another 50 years and they'll be all but gone anyway, and I for one say good riddance. What a load of old fairy stories, not to mention being responsible for killing more people than everything else put together.

[–]DSLJohn 0 points1 point ago

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Now, that should be on a billboard.

[–]KetchupMark -1 points0 points ago

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Hand-holding cowboy's strutting down the catwalk?

[–]eramos -4 points-3 points ago*

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Both, actually. I've read some pretty convincing arguments that the Bible doesn't actually condemn homosexuality (though it requires the Bible to be pretty misogynist, so pick your poison).

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points ago*

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Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

[–]andon -5 points-4 points ago

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That's an inaccurate translation. See my post above (or below, whatever.)

[–]monesy 8 points9 points ago

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Care to cherry pick?:

New International Version (©1984) "'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

New Living Translation (©2007) "If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

New American Standard Bible (©1995) If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) When a man has sexual intercourse with another man as with a woman, both men are doing something disgusting and must be put to death. They deserve to die.

King James Bible If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

American King James Version If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be on them.

American Standard Version And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Bible in Basic English And if a man has sex relations with a man, the two of them have done a disgusting thing: let them be put to death; their blood will be on them.

Douay-Rheims Bible If any one lie with a man se with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.

Darby Bible Translation And if a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall certainly be put to death; their blood is upon them.

English Revised Version And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Webster's Bible Translation If a man also shall lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

World English Bible "'If a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Young's Literal Translation And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood is on them.

[–]andon -5 points-4 points ago

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Surely, and here's why: detestable ≠ abomination. Abomination simply means against nature, whatever that nature may be. There is no positive or negative connotation to that word alone. Your own post proves what I've been trying to say this whole time: it's all about connotation and mistranslation. The abomination is wasting seed, not being homosexual.

Also, nearly all of those bibles are constantly updated with "better" translations and words added in.

[–]dimensional_dan 6 points7 points ago

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The being "put to death" part doesn't give you some idea of the gravity of the crime? I mean you can read that in the nicest possible way and yet the writers of the Bible still want to kill homosexuals. And Jesus supports their claims by stating to enter heaven you need to follow the old law.

[–]andon -3 points-2 points ago

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Leviticus 18:22 says nearly the same thing as 20:13, only without punishments attached.

[–]bgaesop 3 points4 points ago

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So why does one override the other?

[–]andon 0 points1 point ago*

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[–]monesy 4 points5 points ago

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Do you like apples?

The abomination is wasting seed, not being homosexual.

1) It is an abomination to be one who wastes seed

2) Homosexuals waste seed

3) Homosexuals are abominations

Right... so in accordance to the biblical cherry you have decided to pick, Homosexuals are abominations.

How do you like them apples?

[–]andon -1 points0 points ago

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You're right, not solely male/male homosexuality. The bible (specifically, Levitical laws,) condemn any wasting of seed, be it by spilling it on the ground (Onan,) in another man, in an animal, in a mouth, in an anus, etc.

Homosexuality is not the sin - the sin was wasting the seed.

[–]diggexpat 4 points5 points ago

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So, if two women are BOTH barren, and gay, they're good, right?

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points ago

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I think the bible is fine with cowbos and probably not with chaining people up

[–]justinhj -5 points-4 points ago

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Fuck the bible for reflecting what was socially acceptable at the time it was written rather than what would be in a couple of thousand years. What were they thinking?

[–]frozenfire 0 points1 point ago

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They were probably thinking "This is supposed to be the timeless word of Yahweh, our lord."

Anything else is blasphemy.