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Leviticus also said 'No Hair Cuts' but I guess we are skipping that one. [PIC] (flickr.com)
submitted 2 years ago by vxsarin
[–]butthereisafork 217 points218 points219 points 2 years ago*
Leviticus also said that you can't wear two different fabrics at once. Anyone wearing polyester is going straight to hell. Deservedly. I am currently wearing nothing but wool. Woolen hat, woolen sunglasses, woolen shorts, woolen shoes. And the light of heaven is shining upon me.
[–]RichardPeterJohnson 168 points169 points170 points 2 years ago
I think anyone wearing polyester is already in hell.
[–]mal_tez92 13 points14 points15 points 2 years ago
I also heard something about touching a dead pig makes smeone "unclean." Seeing how much reddit loves bacon, this must be the dirtiest site on the web.
[–]kylephoto760 15 points16 points17 points 2 years ago
Mmmm bacon. Dirty dirty bacon.
[–]zoomzoom83 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago
I'm going to make myself a garment out of polyester, bacon, and the hair I cut from my head.
Yeah, take THAT FSM
[–]sirfink 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Touching a lot of things makes you unclean, according to the OT. Touching a woman who is on her period makes you unclean. In fact, you can't touch her for 7 days after her period has ended lest you get her cooties upon ye, oh sinner!
[–]db2 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Then I just made it worse.
[–]IrrelevantElephant 31 points32 points33 points 2 years ago
Snap
[–]bdfortin 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago
Crackle
[–]chakl 12 points13 points14 points 2 years ago
Fuck You - George Carlin
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
well you can just SIT IN THE MILK!
[–]CannedMango 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
You're going to be calling down the wrath of the polyester lobby with that statement...
[–]cnk 35 points36 points37 points 2 years ago
And the light of heaven is shining upon me.
Your woolen sunglasses are catching fire
[–]mapoftasmania 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago
Right. The Jews call it shatnez.
[–]db2 28 points29 points30 points 2 years ago
KHAAAAAAANNNstein!
[–]rooktakesqueen 11 points12 points13 points 2 years ago
"Linsey-woolsey," really? I see they've played silly-namey before.
[–]thrillhouse 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago
Everyone who went to prom between 1970 - 1991 is doomed.
[–]faerielfire 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago
Woolen "undergarments" would pretty much convince me to be a nudist...
[–]Yserbius 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
Wool and Linen, actually. Not any fabrics.
[–]silencia 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago*
Unless, of course, you go by the New International Version
"Leviticus 19
" 'Keep my decrees. " 'Do not mate different kinds of animals. " 'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. " 'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. "
[–]omicron8 15 points16 points17 points 2 years ago
" 'Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her."
Seems like sound advice to me. If only Oedipus had access to such moral guidelines.
[–]TheMarshma 15 points16 points17 points 2 years ago
aww cmon, he didnt know any better man! besides, if you defeat a sphinx, you get to sleep with whoever the hell you want.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago
if you defeat a sphinx
so true...
[–]paolog 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
he didn't know any better woman!
FTFY ;)
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
Gotta give him credit for trying not to sleep with his mother. Except that it was trying not to sleep with her that led to him actually sleeping with her.. omg irony
[–]bobappleyard 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
It was his father, but yes, that was the point of the story.
[–]mutatron 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
Sounds like it's only about blended fabrics, so you could wear a cotton shirt and a woolen suit with a silk tie, for example. I'm pretty sure that's what Leviticus had in mind.
[–]sotonohito 13 points14 points15 points 2 years ago
That's how the Orthodox Jews interpret it. Per them, 100% polyester wouldn't be against Levitical law (though it'd doubtless be really nasty).
Actually, there is a small but thriving business devoted to making sure that no clothing owned by Orthodox Jews violates Leviticus 19. Turns out that a lot of 100% wool suits, or 100% linen shirts, or whatever, use thread of a type different from the cloth to hold on buttons or sometimes even to sew the thing together (ie: a wool suit with linen thread holding on the buttons). These businesses will inspect the garments, identify any offending material, and replace it with Leviticus approved material.
[–]db2 22 points23 points24 points 2 years ago
A fool and his money are easily parted.
[–]Stopher 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
Wouldn't having buttons break the rule?
[–]sotonohito 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
I'm neither Jewish, nor educated in Talmudic studies, but apparently the Orthodox Rabbis don't think buttons break the rules.
Frankly, from what little I do know about kosher laws, they're about as crazy as you'd expect any attempt to make 3,000 year old tribal taboos fit into a modern culture. Orthodox Jews dropped the prohibitions against graven images a long time back, are happy to ignore all the stuff about menstruating women being ritually unclean, etc. But they build hideously wasteful elevators that automatically stop at every floor on Saturday because pushing a button counts as "work", and spend money making sure their linen shirts don't have wool or polyester thread.
Obviously it works for them.
[–]case-o-nuts 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago*
Orthodox Jews dropped the prohibitions against graven images a long time back, are happy to ignore all the stuff about menstruating women being ritually unclean, etc.
Nah, they just loopholed around them. For example, many orthodox synagogues still have no pictures of people around, only geometric figures in their art, to avoid possible appearances of worshipping images.
And ritual uncleanliness means, of course, is reinterpreted to correspond only to certain rituals, and such.
Loopholes and lawyering yourself out of the sticky situations - the core of Judaism. "If god hadn't meant us to find loopholes, he wouldn't have put them there" sigh. I suppose it's more consistent than ignoring the rules totally, at least.
[–]sugarbabe 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
apparently the Orthodox Rabbis don't think buttons break the rules.
Enough with you and your fancy technology.
[–]case-o-nuts 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Well, buttons aren't technically fabric, so you're fine with that. Judaism is all about the loopholes.
[–]silencia 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago*
Wouldn't disagree; can I now kill all gay-hating, Evangelical Christians for wearing polyester? (or a poly-cotton mix)
[–]vxsarin[S] 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago
Bi-threaders are sinners.
[–]Gargilius 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
...if you are wearing woolen underwear, surely you deserve some kind of award.
[–]dawg 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
Why do you need a hat, if you've never cut your hair? Seems like you could just wrap it up on top of your head.
[–]mattyandco 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago
Relevant.
[–]MelechRic 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
I could never go for wool underpants. I'd have to live in a warm climate where cotton or linen was wearable year round.
Muh boys gots ta be free.
[–][deleted] 2 years ago*
[deleted]
[–]RichardPeterJohnson 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago*
I thought that scene was rather masturbatory -- it's like the writers were patting themselves on the back for coming up with such clever gimmicks.
Silk?
[–]MelechRic 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Ah... that would work in cold climates. Good call!
[–]butthereisafork 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago
I'm from Ireland. It's always cold here. But i still gotta look funky and abide by the Old Testament at the same time. Wool is the only way to go.
[–]AmbyR00 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
I'd love to hear his rationalization for that.
[–]wanna_dance 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago*
Because you wouldn't want to imitate those heathen Canaanites, sheesh! ;-)
(On the other hand, the Jewish culture's still around after 3K+ years. Where are the Canaanites now?)
[–]teunome 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Going commando, niiiice you're a girl right?
[–]paolog 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Polyester is fine - it's a single fabric. A polyester shirt and wool trousers are fine too - it's combined fabrics (eg, poly-cotton) that God gets worked up about.
[–]Crath 52 points53 points54 points 2 years ago
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2019:27
this?
[–]vxsarin[S] 19 points20 points21 points 2 years ago
Yup, that looks like the one. I hadn't actually fact checked the sign.
[–]Crath 49 points50 points51 points 2 years ago
I was expecting something more exciting like, "If thou receives a haircut, thou is a fucking faggot"
It isn't a very nice book...
[–]doremon313 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago
or...those who give haircuts, is most likely a faggot and will burn in hell
[–]kylephoto760 -2 points-1 points0 points 2 years ago
Who cares? The sign alone is fucking funny.
[–]snf 11 points12 points13 points 2 years ago
Oh wow, so that's why hasidim have those goofy hairstyles. Cultural relativism is all well and good, but I really feel sorry for them when I see 5-year-olds with that hairdo.
[–]JohnFrum 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
Cultural relativism is neither well nor good.
[–]heeb 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
Love your username.
So, John Frum, when are you coming back? They're waiting...
[–]hunter-gatherer 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago
Dude, I thought that the Bible also condemns men with long hair. If it does, what recourse do we have?
[–]linuxlass 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
It depends on which part you're reading. You can take a vow (like Samson did), and not cutting your hair is part of the vow. I don't remember the name of that specific practice - a Levite vow? Not sure.
But then in the New Testament, Paul says something about nature telling you that men have short hair and women have long hair. It's where he talks about head coverings and proper behavior. Sorry, it's been a while since I studied such stuff, I can't be more specific.
[–]nopodcast 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
the vow is nazerite
[–]Minimiscience 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
I'm pretty sure that part's from the New Testament. So you can only have long hair on Saturdays... or maybe it just can't be long enough to touch your bacon & cheese omelet. The important thing is that, whatever you do, you bring the priests a sacrifice of a delicious steak and/or 10% of your income.
[–]JoeFelice 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
As an aside to this point, though Christians will eat pork, our fabulous tradition of not eating horses goes all the way back to a Papal ban in 732. Pope Gregory III needed cavalry to fight the invading Islamic Caliphate who had taken Spain and were now in France, and in an unbelievably hypocritical decree, he cited the old testament ban on eating animals that don't chew their cud, and enforced it against horses only, while ignoring its application to pork, though swine are specifically named in the scripture. This is the kind of lord's-name-in-vain engineering you can get away with when the only people who can read all have something to gain from pretending you're not being transparently self-serving. The cultural echo of that move still exists. It's illegal to slaughter a horse in the US.
[–]niobevulpes 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
Not cutting the sides of the head, is that what explains the Hassidic side curls? Wikipedia says yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payot
[–]Baramin 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
and this
So the ancient Bible writers banned the mullet and goatee? Maybe it isn't all bad.
[–]Crath 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Well it didn't work.
[–]mOdQuArK 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
So a reverse-mohawk is okay?
[–][deleted] 102 points103 points104 points 2 years ago
I loved the coloring of the letters.
[–]faaron 105 points106 points107 points 2 years ago
This is probably the most aesthetically pleasing protest sign I've ever seen.
[–]mutatron 87 points88 points89 points 2 years ago
He's thin, he's neat, he makes great sign lettering... not that there's anything wrong with that.
[–][deleted] 33 points34 points35 points 2 years ago*
Plus the picture itself was cool too, with him in perfect focus and everything else a soft blur.
It really 'pops.'
[–]hatsradio 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago
Paul is a great photographer, check out PaulFrederiksen.com for more of his work
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago*
Thanks for the link!
Edit: I've been going through his flickr photos. I also liked the Jesus had two daddies sign, not as pretty, but made me chuckle.
[–]sheerheartattack 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
Fantastic aviators as well.
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 2 years ago
I'll bet he's an interior designer.
[–]wwabc 94 points95 points96 points 2 years ago
The bible is cafeteria-style morality...you just pick and choose what you like.
[–]nonsensepoem 27 points28 points29 points 2 years ago
All morality is cafeteria-style to some degree.
[–]faultydesign 32 points33 points34 points 2 years ago
I always pick the bacon cheeseburger... Just because I'm jewish.
[–]gayguy 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago
And I the cockmeat sandwich.
[–]xrobau 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
You know, gayguy, I'm getting a feeling you may be gay. I dunno what makes me think that.
[–]MyNameIsBruce 14 points15 points16 points 2 years ago
I actually like the veggie burger with cheese and bacon. That way, I piss off the muslims, jews, hindus, and vegetarians.
[–]RichardPeterJohnson 18 points19 points20 points 2 years ago
And the foodies.
[–]lapo3399 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago
Everything pisses off the foodies.
[–]sheerheartattack 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Or human.
[–]bobtheki 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
The only way to be truely good is to do nothing, literally. So if you take actions of any sort, prepare to do bad, no matter what, even if you aren't trying.
You think you are perfect? Do you where any branded clothing? If you do you might be getting it at the expense of a sweatshop. Drive a car? You might be supporting a dictator. Buy anything at all. Do you really need it? Because there are most likely people out there that need it more than you. To live a normal life, one has to convince oneself that these things are not "bad."*
*Disclaimer: I do all these things. I just don't know how to live a normal life and not do these things.
[–]Ross932 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago
My Christian friend said that only the new testament is the Christian one, and the old testament is just something they read from time to time, and it is mainly for the Jews. Therefore quoting the old testament at protests doesn't phase Christians, only Jews...and they don't give a shit.
Discus......
[–]wwabc 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago
tell them to read their bible:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)
[–]zubzub2 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago*
Christians take a pick-and-choose approach to the Old Testament. Ask your Christian friend whether he rejects the value of the Ten Commandments, which are from the Old Testament.
Based on a lot of legal fights in the United States, I can tell you that plenty of Christians take the Ten Commandments very seriously. In fact, among Christians that reject much organized religion, the Ten Commandments are one of the few "moral teachings" that they often seem to glom onto.
It's true that for homosexuality, there is also condemnation from Paul in the New Testament. The NT was written when Roman society was dominant, and thus adopted a lot of values of that time and people (Roman society was monogamous as opposed to the polygamous society of the Kingdom of Israel, for another good example).
Hah! That's awesome, I'm stealing that.
[–]wwabc 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
ok, just don't covet my house, ox, or donkey.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
But I can have your wife? Or is that on the menu today?
[–]RichardPeterJohnson 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
Dibs on his ass!
[–]timperry42 25 points26 points27 points 2 years ago
But you also can not let it grow.
[–]xorxor 12 points13 points14 points 2 years ago
Oh no!!! You mean there's a contradiction in the bible? Someone alert the authorities!
[–]karnoculars 36 points37 points38 points 2 years ago
Leviticus was a real asshole, wasn't he...
[–]iolothebard 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago
Like a hall monitor that had the power go to his head.
[–]Antebios 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago*
Cartman?
[–]ltx 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago
Respect my authoritah!
[–]JayClay 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Respect mah Biblical Bigotrah!
[–]Yserbius 14 points15 points16 points 2 years ago*
Other fun Biblical laws:
[–]dirtydan 21 points22 points23 points 2 years ago*
No lighting fires on the Sabbath
I used to be a home appliance repair guy. Some gas and electric ovens have a sabbath setting that will turn the oven on at a preset time. I suppose if you're a jewish mother you slide the roast in on Friday eve before the sun sets and it gets automagically cooked sometime Saturday afternoon. I'm not religious but it seems to me that following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law is no way to curry the favor of your creator.
[–]murderous_rage 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago
I always thought it was funny that they talk about god's omniscience and then they try to pull this kind of obvious self-serving nonsense. Does god use lawyers and loopholes when judging people? It would appear so.
[–]wanna_dance 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago*
Does god use lawyers and loopholes when judging people?
Absolutely. Satan, the devil, is just the Christian translation of Ha'Satan, the accuser or adversary. In other words, no devil, just some supernatural lawyer type who argued against God.
it seems to me that following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law is no way to curry the favor of your creator.
It "seems to you", because the relationship of a Jew to his God isn't the same as yours. Other religions worship. We debate. Tough luck. He was ours first ;-)
(BTW, I'm an atheist. Don't take any of this seriously/literally.)
[–]hgielrehtaeh 15 points16 points17 points 2 years ago*
My boyfriend hit the nail on the head this weekend when he said, "If the Bible were reddit, Leviticus would be r/WTF."
[–]itjitj 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
What would r/statuegropers be?
[–]glottis 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago*
I'm amazed that you weren't lying, and full of joy that it isn't what I thought it would be. It's a good day.
[–]elnefasto 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago
That's a very well designed poster.
[–]soccerman 26 points27 points28 points 2 years ago
This just in, religious people are hypocrites. More at 11
[–]infinite 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago*
I think they get around that by saying the laws in the old testament they disagree with were meant for the Israelites and not them. Except for the 10 commandments. It's cool how the bible neatly follows their own moral/ethical system.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago
Here's a fun game to try. The next time fundies come a-knockin', innocently tell them yeah, the Bible has some nice ideas, but it can't all be true, relevant today etc., right?
Wait till they quote 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
Extend a glass of bleach/your pet cobra while shouting "Mark 16:17-18, bitches!" Watch fundies eat their words.
Fun!
[–]c94 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
Do you honestly think you can "own" a fundamentalist? They'll just stop wasting time since you're being an ass.
[–]Fujiwara_Bunta 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
I thought making them leave was the point?
[–]havesometea1 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Yes, but they also say that Jesus came and gave them a new way and the old testament is out so it doesn't apply any more...unless they need it to and then it does...
[–]ltjboy03 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago
that's a really nice photo. I wonder what camera the photographer was using.
[–]vxsarin[S] 15 points16 points17 points 2 years ago
Canon T1i Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8
Thanks :)
[–]chwilliam 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
Oh god, those T1is make me spontaneously orgasm every time I hear about them. I wish I had money for a new body :(
[–]vxsarin[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
Save a couple extra pennies for the 7D.
Haha, yeah. Just a few pennies.
[–]orezpraw 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
Oh is this your photo? Well shot, friend. It looks great.
[–]vxsarin[S] 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago
Thanks :) I had no idea people would like it so much. I'm in awe of all of the attention it is getting!
[–]hatsradio 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
great camera indeed
[–]revicon 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago
I don't think that passage really means "Don't ever cut your hair" See here...
http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/63/Is-Wrong-Shave-Cut-Ones-Hair-Leviticus-1927;-215.htm
I would say that source has a slight bias.
[–]justpickaname 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
That's not exactly what Leviticus says, or what it means, but his sign is FABULOUS!
[–]chwilliam 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
Haircuts are part of the atheist gay agenda! They are undermining the Judeo-Christian roots of this nation!
[–]Sailer 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago
I'm skipping the entire bible.
[–]floryjg 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago
If Leviticus still counts I know a way we can make a killing off of Canada... http://bible.cc/leviticus/25-44.htm
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
The hairdressers' lobby with their weirdo agenda got that blasphemy reversed "officially," but we know better. BURN THE FALSE IDOL OF GREAT CLIPS!
[–]spundred 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
Well, that passage in Lev refers to the style of beard/facial hair common amongst orthodox Jews, it's not 'haircuts' altogether.
None the less, being selective about passages to adhere to is ridiculous. Almost every old testament book insists animal sacrifice is a necessity to appease God, but that's no longer practiced.
[–]plopgun 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
That and dietary requirements are the two things I know Jesus repealed. He is supposed to be the final sacrifice required, and he actually said what you eat is unimportant. I don't think he ended the dress code though.
[–]spundred 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Scripture?
[–]plopgun 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago*
Don't have it. The Jesus as final sacrifice, I thought, was the core of christian belief. here's one for the dietary thing:
this is googled info. I'm an atheist. I only know what I've been told by christian friends.
[–]johninbigd 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
That whole "repealed" thing is something that fundamentalists use to excuse their selective reading of Old Testament scriptures. If they still agree with it then they can say that Jesus left that one alone, but if they don't like it, they can say that Jesus repealed it. It's a win-win of bigotry and self-righteousness.
[–]ffollett 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
While his basic point is right and I completely agree with him, he's putting quotes around something that isn't a quote. it says don't cut the hair on the sides of your head and the edges of your beard. "haircuts" is misleading.
[–]YosserHughes 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
For our Republican Redditors when debating health care:
Mathew 25:
'Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
For I was sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.'
You guys got some explaining to do to St Peter.
[–]chewbaka025 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago
Atheist WIN.
[–]Phaz 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago
Come on guys/gals. This Old Testament stuff has been brought up over and over again. Yes, many people quote the Leviticus stuff because it's easy, but most knowledgeable Christians can easily defend and dismiss these attacks.
The OT rules aren't necessarily 'nullified' with Jesus, but they are more or less fulfilled and thus no longer needed. It's ok to eat shellfish and cut your hair and wear clothing. Those are all things that are acceptable by almost all Christians, and not just because it's convenient, there is a full biblical explanation of why.
There are at least two passages in the New Testament that address homosexuality as being wrong. There are some differing opinions on those, but generally most knowledgeable Christians who oppose gay marriage/rights will go to those.
If you want to get some change made focus on the real issues. Stuff like this has no impact because it's easily dismissed. It's much more effective to do things like learn the different viewpoints of the NT verses (Such as the last part of Romans 1) and the alternate explanations/meanings of them. Or quote other sources in the bible that support gay marriage (loving your neighbor, etc).
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago*
People focus on this because so many Christians sound more like old testament Jews than new testament Christians. The old testament God is a god of vengeance; the new testament God is a god of love. Which of these two gods sounds more like the god gay hating Christians worship?
And as for the OT rules being fulfilled with Jesus, did he bless the prawns so that they're ok to eat? Did he nullify the ten commandments? Because it sure doesn't sound like it to me.
He basically said, <paraphrase>the rest of you can worship God through me. New way to worship, new rules.</paraphrase>.
The Jews were given the (hundreds of) Laws. The Christians were only given 10 of them.
As far as the terms "fulfilled", part of the Christian belief system is that the prophecies in the OT concerning the Messiah were fulfilled. Jesus is the Messiah to Christians.
The shellfish are ok then, but what about the ten commandments? Do they still apply? Does the NT list all the laws that were nullified, or does one have to guess?
[–]wanna_dance 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
or does one have to guess?
dunno. You'd have to ask a Christian about that one. Seemingly there are a few different opinions on this. The Catholics evidently follow St Augustine's Catechism, which teaches the 10 Commandments, so they don't have to guess.
It's the various Protestants that are of differing opinions.
Good luck! ;-)
[–]nopodcast 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
The Christians were only given 10 of them.
bullshit. jesus himself ADDED commandments; love your neighbor as yourself, etc.
Did he say, "and this I command thee?" (This is actually a serious question. I'm less familiar with all the parts of the New Testament and I've never heard these called "commandments".)
[–]nopodcast 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago*
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
-quoted from matthew 22
so he never said "i command" but he DID refer to commandments that do NOT appear in the OT as "the greatest"
do NOT appear in the OT
Actually, that's untrue. it's part of Deuteronomy 6. The V'ahavta (read down a paragraph or so) is one of the most important pieces of Jewish liturgy.
I grant you that the 'Love your neighbor as yourself' is unique to Jesus, and that's what made him a great guy :-)
Those are all things that are acceptable by almost all Christians, and not just because it's convenient, there is a full biblical explanation of why.
What's the explanation?
[–]Phaz 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
Those are the old laws that apply to his chosen people that were established as part of a covenant between them and God. It is things they must adhere to. Basically, when Jesus died, he fulfilled those laws, not necessarily nullifying them, but making them unnecessary by creating a new covenant.
But why are they now unnecessary? Why were they necessary to begin with?
[–]Phaz 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago
I'm by no means an expert on this, so other people can chime in.
There were actually several covenants in the OT, each had a different purpose. With Noah, the promise was Life. With Abraham, it was establishing a chosen people and homeland. With Moses came salvation, and then with David there was a promise of a messiah. During that period, for salvation, sacrifices had to be made (i.e. animals) in addition to sticking to the laws. When Jesus died, he was the 'ultimate/final sacrifice' and thus fulfilled all the old covenants and replaced them with a new one. The big difference there was forgiveness, through faith in Jesus. “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us:” (Galatians 3:13a)
I'm an atheist, so it's very easy that I got some of that wrong, but I think the general idea is correct. I think there are plenty of things you can bring up with Christians about their religion, stuff like this is humorous, but not really effective.
It's basically the same thing as telling an Atheist that they think that everything came from nothing because there was an magic explosion.
During that period, for salvation, sacrifices had to be made (i.e. animals) in addition to sticking to the laws. When Jesus died, he was the 'ultimate/final sacrifice' and thus fulfilled all the old covenants and replaced them with a new one.
There's still no explanation for why sacrifices had to be made at all, and especially why haircuts were one of them. If Jesus could simply "die" and cancel out all the old covenants, there wasn't really a point in the covenants to begin with.
I suppose I'm preaching to the choir, though. Thanks for the information.
If you look at it as a relationship growing and evolving between God and humanity, then it makes sense. The whole idea of a metaphysical God that is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent isn't actually a big part of ancient Jewish belief (it basically came to a fore in the middle ages), and therefore isn't really part of biblical Christian belief.
On top of this, I think that the whole "fulfillment of the law" phrase makes absolutely no sense. It's just the verbiage that's used by Christians when they want to gloss over why they don't have to be doing the whole OT thing anymore. Imagine, ignorance from these people? From what I understand, Phaz was on the right track but missed a little bit of the theological grounding due to the "fulfillment" gloss.
I'll try to explain this as concisely as I can. Pauline Christianity (that is, the Christianity we have now, as based on the letters of Paul), made the theological shift from a Jewish based Christianity, in which Jesus was the Messiah for a small group of Jews, into a universal Christianity, in which you didn't have to be a Jew to be a Christian, and Jesus was a Messiah for the whole world.
This shift was part of the new covenant God was alleged to have made with humanity as a whole, similar to Noah's covenant, rather than just with the Jews. What it said, ultimately, was that the religion was now open for all through the sacrifice of Jesus, and that with the Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended into the world and made everything both "clean" and "holy." Therefore, there was no longer any need for the Jewish sacrifices or practices, as they were made irrelevant by the new "clean" world.
This all should be taken in the context of all of these people in the early first century believing that the world was going to end at any minute. There's a very clear passage in Paul (I think in Corinthians? I can't remember) that says that people shouldn't be getting married or having sex, period. That it was more or less unideal, because the world was about to end and it's far better to go into the afterlife alone as a singular self.
Secondly, the Pauline doctrines also make commentary on things clean and unclean, pure and impure, and I don't know it all very well, but it doesn't seem to make sense in and of itself in relation to the idea that God's new covenant made everything pure. I don't know if this is particularly relevant or interesting to anyone (I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of tl;dr going on), but it might help.
[–]linuxlass 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago*
The clean/unclean stuff goes away in the New Testament. Peter had a vision where God tells him that he can eat unclean animals. And Paul says something like "all things are pure for those who are pure", meaning that you should focus on your internal relationship with God instead of worrying about unclean things.
BTW, random fact: the Bible says "whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might". I knew a Christian youth leader who jokingly claimed that this meant that masturbation is ok.
There are no rules against masturbation. (And this means that masturbation is ok.)
The Jewish interpretation of Onan is about Yaweh being angry at Onan's disobedience. It was only reinterpreted later by Christians to be about masturbation (Onan actually "pulled out" as a method of birth control. It should be about coitus interruptus, not masturbation).
Yes, many people quote the Leviticus stuff because it's easy, but most knowledgeable Christians can easily defend and dismiss these attacks.
It gets quoted because it is still the primary source of material for those against gay marriage. Nullifying that specific book's weight in the discourse is precisely why quoting Levitical nonesense has value.
The moderates who don't follow Leviticus at all are generally OK with gay marriage.
[–]finisterra 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago*
I have never considerer that Leviticus is often being used as the source material (which isn't to say that in the USA that isn't the case, especially with Evangelicals).
Corinthians 6:9, Romans 24-27, Timothy 1:10 are some of the most common (all from the New Testament) that I've heard.
There's about six that get heavily used, but Leviticus 20:13 and the nearly identical 18:22 are definitely part of the bigotry tool kit.
[–]finisterra 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago*
I see, thanks for the information. As I speculated it must be some special preference that Evangelicals have for it.
[–]ChrisLeBeouf 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
The low hanging fruit tastes just as good.
[–]DanCorb 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
Those Leviticus followers truly are hairy at the heel.
[–]vxsarin[S] 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
They never do quite make the cut
[–]MickeyMonster 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
They make my hair stand on end
[–]cynicalcheeto 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago
I just don't gel with them, you know?
[–]GodlessSky 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago
Ugh I know. I just want them out of my hair.
They highlight the parts of The Bible that they agree with, but just clip off the parts that they want trimmed.
[–]DanCorb 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago
They are dyed-in-the-wool supporters of the Bible, honestly showing their true colours.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago
Its sickening really. They want The Babble to be the cornerstone of our nation's morality, while they comb-over Jesus' teachings.
[–]tacyppah 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
and then they wig out when someone points out the doublestandard.
[–]GodlessSky 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
However let's not tar them all with the same brush.
[–]yeti22 -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago
You can't get too mad at them, though. They're just a product of their upbringing.
[–]Xupid 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
They are sheep in wolf's clothing.
[–]theminivann 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Oh, I see what you did thair.
[–]arthum -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago
Split the difference: end marriage.
[–]wowzaa 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
US "Conservatives" like to follow Leviticus 18:22 but they totally ignore 18:6-20.
[–]db2 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago*
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/18.html
edit: 18:18 ... is that an instruction to kill your wife so you can bone her sister?
Someone should take this picture and put it along side one of the tea-baggers. It's crazy, i mean look, they're all standing AND walking!
[–]greenknight 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
I'm not. I haven't cut my hair in 6 years.
[–]quirm 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Jesus.
[–]greenknight 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
nope. more like Samson.
[–]robywar 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Well, are you 6 years old?
I was lost, but now am found.
The West Wing did an awesome job of this.
[–]NancyFuckingDrew 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
I could watch that scene all day :)
[–]MrXfromPlanetX 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago*
Leviticus also said not to even touch swine, and shellfish are an abomination before God as well.
When will we recognize the teachings off the bible and close down Red Lobster and any restaurant that serves swine?
http://leviticusstudies.blogspot.com
If you check the comments you can tell there are a lot of morons who don't get this page is a joke. Oh well.
[–]shniken 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago
So is that why all male hair dressers are gay?
[–]IkastI 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
that's such a pretty sign.
[–]noseeme 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Leviticus is full of some really, REALLY fucked up shit that most orthodox Jews and Christians now reject. For my Bar Mitzvah, my Torah portion was about how many shekels you had to pay a man if you raped his wife, and various other penalties for adultery. It was fucked up.
That's because women were property. It makes sense in their cultural context.
[–]DrMonkeyLove 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Leviticus says all sorts of crazy crap. I think we would do well to skip all of it.
[–]lectrick 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago*
My favorite billboard in this vein is still:
Gays 1, Christians 0
I looked up the cited passage and, sure enough, that's essentially what it says.
(Not gay, but very pro-happiness and anti-obvious-idiocy)
[–]Chris_Berry 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
Was Samson a Levite? I wonder if they all had unshaven faces like the muslims who shave their asses but aren't allowed to trim their beards and hair.
[–]GenericName100 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago
I was at the National Equality March and saw a bunch of great signs like this. I also saw an old man holding a sign that said "God said marriage is for 1 man, 1 woman" but some guy stole it .^
Oh and my personal favorite. "Jesus had 2 dads and he turned out fine"
[–]finisterra -6 points-5 points-4 points 2 years ago*
I get the sign[*], it's funny, etc, etc.
However the irony of it (in before "that's not irony") only applies to Christians that use Leviticus as the source for opposing homosexuality/same-sex marriages/etc. Maybe most in the US do use Leviticus, but many others don't.
[*] EDIT: was originally misspelled as "sing".
[–]arthum 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
jeez, there's always singing when the gays are around, huh.
[–]hatsradio 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago
actually, I attended this march with the photographer (vxsarin), and there was much singing indeed. the gay men's choir of DC put on a show at the end of the march. there was NOT, however, a dance number. i was really waitin for that dance number. and jazz hands, it needed more jazz hands.
[–]finisterra 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago
Ehe, I corrected it before having read your comment. I'm going to revert and make the edit visible.
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