this post was submitted on
1,881 points (92% like it)
2,048 up votes 167 down votes

pics

subscribe2,620,078 readers

6,247 users here now

For an image subreddit with minimal rules, check out /r/images

A place to share interesting photographs and pictures. Feel free to post your own, but please read the rules first (see below), and note that we are not a catch-all for general images (of screenshots, comics, etc.)

Spoiler code

Please mark spoilers like this:
[text here](/spoiler)

Hover over to read.

Rules

  1. No screenshots, or pictures with added or superimposed text. This includes image macros, comics, info-graphics and most diagrams. Text (e.g. a URL) serving to credit the original author is exempt.

  2. No gore or porn. NSFW content must be tagged.

  3. No personal information. This includes anything hosted on Facebook's servers, as they can be traced to the original account holder. Stalking & harassment will not be tolerated.

  4. No solicitation of votes (including "cake day" posts), posts with their sole purpose being to communicate with another redditor, or [FIXED] posts. DAE posts go in /r/DoesAnybodyElse. "Fixed" posts should be added as a comment to the original image.

  5. Submissions must link directly to a specific image file or to an image hosting website with minimal ads. We do not allow blog hosting of images ("blogspam"), but links to albums on image hosting websites are okay. URL shorteners are prohibited.

  6. No animated images. Please submit them to /r/gif, /r/gifs, or /r/reactiongifs instead.

  • If your submission appears to be filtered but definitely meets the above rules, please send us a message with a link to the comments section of your post (not a direct link to the image). Don't delete it as that just makes the filter hate you!

  • If you come across any rule violations, please report the submission or message the mods and one of us will remove it!

Please also try to come up with original post titles. Submissions that use certain clichés/memes will be automatically tagged with a warning.

Links

If your post doesn't meet the above rules, consider submitting it on one of these other subreddits:

Comics  
/r/comics /r/webcomics
/r/vertical /r/f7u12
/r/ragenovels /r/AdviceAtheists
Image macros Screenshots/text
/r/lolcats /r/screenshots
/r/AdviceAnimals /r/desktops
/r/Demotivational /r/facepalm (Facebook)
/r/reactiongifs /r/DesktopDetective
Wallpaper Animals
/r/wallpaper /r/aww
/r/wallpapers /r/cats
The SFWPorn Network /r/TrollingAnimals
  /r/deadpets
  /r/birdpics
  /r/foxes
Photography Un-moderated pics
/r/photography /r/AnythingGoesPics
/r/photocritique /r/images
/r/HDR
/r/windowshots
/r/PictureChallenge
Misc New reddits
/r/misc /r/britpics
/r/gifs Imaginary Network
/r/dataisbeautiful /r/thennnow
/r/picrequests /r/SpecArt
/r/LookWhoIMet
  /r/timelinecovers
  /r/MemesIRL
  /r/OldSchoolCool
  /r/photoshopbattles
  /r/PastAndPresentPics .

Also check out http://irc.reddit.com

a community for

reddit is a source for what's new and popular online. vote on links that you like or dislike and help decide what's popular, or submit your own! learn more ›

all 146 comments

[–]FiredFox 174 points175 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Results of operating either machine: Random, so who knows!

[–]Ciceros_Assassin 185 points186 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

At least on a slot machine your losses are limited only to the money you put in.

[–]Shadowhand 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I see what you did there! Clever, sir, clever.

[–]Daewwoo 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

If we allow the rules for voting machines stay this way, we have mostly ourselves to blame for not fighting this bullshit.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Slot machines aren't really random. I used to work on them and have a good insight on what really makes them tick.

They have an internal accounting system as well to try to keep things on track, so it's not completely random. It knows what the next spin is going to output before you even put in your cash or hit a button. They also have the ability to deny you a jackpot and spit out something else if it disagrees with their accounting rules. You'll just never know that this ever happened.

[–]zacdenver 75 points76 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Sorry -- but you are SOO wrong! I spent more than 20 years in the slot machine biz and was working for Bally when they introduced the S-5000 model in the early '90s, which pretty much copied IGT's S-Plus design.

All solid-state gaming devices (slots, video poker, video...whatever) use a pseudo-random number generator [PRNG] on the motherboard -- acting in concert with the program chip set -- to determine the results of a play. However, this does NOT occur until the first coin drops or the first credit is played.

In slots for instance, a series of numbers for each reel is constantly being generated by the PRNG. Although the reels haven't spun yet, it's true that the combination is pre-selected before the player sees the results. But hitting the SPIN button a few milliseconds earlier or later would result in a totally different outcome.

For example, Bally's popular three-reel Blazing 7s game had 64 discrete positions on each reel. Only one position on each reel was the "jackpot" winner, which meant that your odds of winning the top prize were 1 in 262,144 (64x64x64) [Thanks for correcting my error, readers!]. The PRNG constantly streamed three sets of numbers (one set for each reel) from 0 to 63.

The Telnaes Patent is generally regarded as the pioneering work that created the "virtual reel." This meant you were not physically restricted to the number of symbols that might fit on a reel strip (the piece of long, skinny plastic that contains the cherries, oranges, single- double- and triple bars, etc.). The old mechanical slots usually had 22 or 24 "stops," which meant that the largest jackpot you could offer had odds of 1 in 13,824 (24 cubed). In order to offer larger prizes, engineers needed to find a way to increase the number of stops on each reel. The only other way do do this was by adding more reels. Back in the 1980s, right on the cusp of solid-state slots (Bally's E-2000 model, for instance), people would rarely play games with more than five reels, since the odds against them were so incredibly visible (24 to the fifth = 317,952 possible combinations). By "virtually" assigning a symbol to each three-number combination (on a 3-reel machine), you could technically get by with only one of each symbol on each reel. You can also hide the number of actual stops from the player. Bally's Naughty Nickels game had 128 stops on each of three reels, which gave the top award a 1-in-2,097,152 chance of occurring. Of course, it was originally a million nickels ($50,000), not bad for wagering only 15 cents per play.

The programmer would assign a symbol to each "virtual reel stop." On reel one, let's say that the Blazing 7s game had blanks on all the odd numbers, single bars on 18, 26, 38, 44, 62, double bars on 2, 8, 14 -- well, you get the idea. Then assume each reel has its own set of numbers assigned to symbols. Remember, the symbols are only there to enlighten the player. If the PRNG rang up #41 for Reel One, it would stop spinning at a blank. If it generated #14, the player would see it stop on a double-bar.

I agree with some of the comments posted below that "seeding" the PRNG caused problems in the early days, especially for casinos that happened to switch on the machine at the same time every day. But programmers eventually created a number of sub-routines to change the way the initial combination was seeded, and we haven't seen a whole lot of slot cheating in the past dozen or so years.

[–]detestrian 23 points24 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

To tell you the truth, I was expecting a similar confession as in the epic "how to disarm a bomb" thread...

[–]mkrfctr 5 points6 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

link to said epic thread?

[–]takeda64 9 points10 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

[–]tryk48s 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Most of us know how to "set us up the bomb," but disarming is a totally different story.

[–]mkrfctr -2 points-1 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

tick tock tick tock

[–]Tiver 6 points7 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Highly informative, but one mistake: 64x64x64 is 262144 not 4032.

[–]tanguyr 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

For example, Bally's popular three-reel Blazing 7s game had 64 discrete positions on each reel. Only one position on each reel was the "jackpot" winner, which meant that your odds of winning the top prize were 1 in 4032 (64x64x64).

64x64x64=262144

[–]doublestodtington 8 points9 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

But ((64x64)-64) = 4032. Given the proximity of * and - on a numpad it’s an understandable "typo" in calculations but one that should have been noticed.

[–]cturkosi 0 points1 point ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Someone who engineers gambling machines should know base 2 and other math like the back of their hand. It becomes routine after a while, I should know. I could probably multiply powers of 2 if someone woke me up at 3 AM.

[–]zacdenver 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Mea culpa -- thanks for the fix. I knew something was wrong about that figure!

[–]trackerbishop 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

so you have a 1/64 chance for each reel and you have to win on all 3 reels? because if you flip a coin 3 times the odds of getting heads 3 times in a row are

1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2

[–]zacdenver 2 points3 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Not quite. Only ONE three-number combination yields a jackpot win. You can't look at the reels as individual winning opportunities, because the processor doesn't work that way. Each PRNG three-number string exists unto itself, yielding a specific (or no) payout. So in the aforementioned example, there are 262,144 combinations in a game's "universe." Only one will give you the top jackpot -- let's say, 2500 coins. Other three-number sets will pay out lesser amounts, or nothing

In fact, analyzing what's called the pay table is how manufacturers come up with the payback percentage for each particular program. Assume that a gambler hits every possible combination exactly once in 262,144 plays, with no repeats. That's called a "game cycle." Add up the number of coins wagered. In this case it's a three-coin game, so that means the gambler would put 786,432 coins into the machine. Then add up the number of coins that would have been returned (with zero for the combinations that yield no payout). Let's say the second number totals 723,520. Your game program would therefore be a 92.0% game -- a fairly typical payback for a 25-cent machine. Dollar machines will often run from 95% to 97.5%.

Most machines will hold very close to their rated percentage over the course of 3-4 cycles. But because each spin is random, of course, it's entirely possible to hit the top award on the machine's very first play out of the box. This will heavily skew the "hold" percentage for quite a while, but the law of probability eventually catches up.

In my earlier example of Bally's Naughty Nickels game, one casino here in Colorado saw a single machine pay out the top jackpot TWICE during its first two weeks on the gaming floor. But no one ever hit it again, and they retired the machine after about ten million spins.

[–]monkeyman114 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You left out the part where the slot machine is programmed to "almost" win, thereby duping the operator into putting more money in. There's no law against that since you either win or you don't, but it is a subtle way to take advantage of human nature. The reels are not random.

[–]zacdenver 8 points9 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

There actually IS a law against it [now], and that little trick caused a popular slot machine manufacturer to nearly lose its Nevada license. They ultimately went out of business in the States.

Universal Distributing of Nevada (the U.S. subsidiary of a Japanese company that built its fortune on manufacturing pachinko machines) sold some of the most popular slot machines in the late '80s and early '90s, especially in the Las Vegas market. Programmers had devised what came to be known as the "near miss" feature, which was originally approved by the Nevada Gaming Control Board (NGCB).

Here's how it worked. If the PRNG came up with a known non-winning (zero-payout) combination -- let's say a blank on Reel One, a blank on Reel Two, and three bars on Reel Three -- the program went through a separate loop and instead "landed on" a 7 on Reel One, a 7 on Reel Two, and a blank on Reel Three, oftentimes with that third 7 hanging one line above or below the center pay line. This caused the unsuspecting gambler to think, "Gosh, if that third reel had only kicked up one more step, I would have won the jackpot."

Solely because of this feature, Universal's slots out-earned every other brand for several years running. Casinos were buying them hundreds at a time (at US$5000 a pop in 1990 dollars), much to the dismay of their two main competitors: Bally and IGT. The latter company, even today the first- or second-largest gambling machine manufacturer in the world -- they're usually neck-and-neck with Australia's Aristocrat (Pty) Ltd -- used its considerable political clout to make the NGCB take another look at the near-miss feature. The control board eventually ruled it illegal (claiming, if memory serves, that the extra loop removed the "randomness" of the event), forcing the company to retrofit every one of its thousands of machines with new program chips that lacked this feature.

A terrific analysis of this story can be found in "License to Steal" by Jeff Burbank. The book also has a chapter on the American Coin Machine scam (they were one of my customers, although I didn't know what they were doing at the time), which involved the still-unsolved murder of an employee who was just about to go to the Feds regarding a programming "flaw" in the company's video poker machines that made it impossible to hit a royal flush.

[–]z3rb 11 points12 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I recommend anyone interested in this to read The Art of Intrusion by Kevin Mitnick. It has a whole chapter about this. A++++ book would read again.

[–]austin_k 15 points16 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I was about to recommend that chapter, so upmodding you. I believe the hack involved syncing a clock with a particular slot machine's internal internal clock to predict the outcome. Interestingly enough, this whole thing was facilitated by the fact that the machine's specs (and code?) were freely available. I'm hoping that if/when voting machine's code becomes available, it is scrutinized by far more people beforehand.

[–]heffocheffefer 6 points7 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I think that instead of the code being available they actually bought one of the machines and dumped the contents of the chips on it and reverse engineered them. An excellent read though, I'd also definitly recommend reading it.

[–]jjdmol -5 points-4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

The basic problem is that no computer can be random. The next state (spin) is predictable in your computer as well as in the slot machines. Hence, there is no difference between computing the next spin before or after the coin is inserted.

[–]ThisIsDave 29 points30 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

quick workaround: use the precise time at which the coin is inserted as part of the random seed.

[–]knud 10 points11 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Thank you. Someone has been following their CS courses. And, jjdmel, the basic problem is not an inability to randomize. You don't want to randomize when you run a casino!! You want predictability and insurance that your slot machines don't ruin you. If they were truly random, then a series of jackpots could ruin you.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

The flip side being that if you set jackpots based on the actual probability of them paying out based on random spins, the jackpots would be much, much lower (and therefore far less attractive).

Consider how state lotteries would be run if every winner got the entire stated amount, instead of splitting it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I am going to make a killing in my new line of Geiger-Müller slot machines.

[–]asw66 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

As a matter of fact, genuine hardware RNGs are easily obtained: they've been commercially available for quite some time.

[–][deleted] ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Correction, nothing is random anymore. If you and I wanted to select a random number, we would have to consult this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Million-Random-Digits-Normal-Deviates/dp/0833030477/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Or you can go here.

[–]mao_neko 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

no, no, you need to go here!

[–]pingish 13 points14 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

With the skills of the programming nerds on Reddit alone, I can't figure out why the Open Source electronic voting vacuum hasn't been filled.

[–]tuber 11 points12 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Have you spoken to your Congressmen?

[–]pingish 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

About lots of stuff. He keeps blowing me off though.

[–]paraedolia 16 points17 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

He keeps blowing me off though.

Is your congressman Larry Craig by any chance?

[–]pingish -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

LOL! Doris Bailout Matsui.

[–]matt2500 3 points4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I came here to post the same thing. The fact that slot machine software is at least to some degree 'open source' (available to state gaming control officers), while election software is not, is stunning. As a result, software vendors can get away with pushing uninspected 'patches' to specific voting districts in the days leading up to elections, and other shenanigans.

Not only that, the software used to tabulate votes seems ridiculously basic. Watch the documentary 'Hacking Democracy' (available on YouTube). Heck, the Diebold system examined in that film used unencrypted MS Access files to store vote counts.

[–]Aaronius 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

[–]pingish 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I remember watching that video!!!! I couldn't fucking believe my eyes!!!

I used to work for a biotech company and between 21 CFR Part 11 and software validation required by the FDA, I thought election software would undergo the same rigors.

Little did I know that fucking MS Access is what Diebold used. I was stunned. The fact that this problem is not solved is utterly stunning.

[–]JPOnion 12 points13 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I actually work in a slot machine company as a programmer. Our machines will be handling billions of dollars, and if there's any question about it being rigged or not being fair, customers (casino's or players) won't want to use them... Because of that, this industry has more regulations it has to follow than the nuclear industry, and hoooo boy is it fun making sure each and every state regulation (because each state has their own) is met.

The results of voting machines are much more important, though, but my guess why its difference is one gives their operators more money if it's not rigged, the other gives more if it can be.

[–]zacdenver 7 points8 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Agreed 100%. The voting industry needs an equivalent to GLII (Gaming Labs International Inc.), which (as I'm sure you know) has the contract to do most of the gaming machine approvals worldwide - although Nevada and Atlantic City do their own.

I actually mentioned this to GLII company founder James Maida when I shared a speaking engagement with him back in 2000, but he was too focused on the slot business to give it much attention.

[–]dreambucket 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I work for one of the leading bill acceptor suppliers as an engineer. And yes, whenever I see something odd in the product, it's there because some state requires it.

[–]thires 33 points34 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Might I point out that the two sides have different goals.

For the casinos, they want their customers to feel like they have a fair and clear chance. If they feel like something is shady, or the system is rigged, they're much less likely to gamble their money away.

As for politicians... Well, I won't get into that. :P

[–]Testsubject28 3 points4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

So what your saying is Screw Washington DC, lets let Vegas run the country.

Sounds good to me.

[–]smpx 24 points25 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

If Vegas ran the country, the rich would continuously get free stuff and handouts, you would be prompted to constantly spend money, and you can get your butt kicked in shady back rooms without due process if you ever piss off the head honchos.

hmm.....

[–]Testsubject28 8 points9 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

But if you pay out enough in taxes you could get comped... Free Hotel Room, Free Buffet Meal

Um, this isn't evening out...

[–]Spacepope6 -2 points-1 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

So really Vegas and Guantanamo Bay have a lot in common.

[–]butwait 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Actually, casinos don't want this. They prefer to have rigged machines without a real payout, as they had before the laws were made.

[–]flyryan 36 points37 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

That was the old way of thinking and resulted in far less gain for the casino owners in the long run. It was mob rule then.

The new Las Vegas is very business minded and very much care about repeat customers.

[–]SAugsburger 5 points6 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

A lot of casinos have various loyalty programs to encourage repeat business.

Provided that you occasionally give back part of the players' money a lot of people will perceive that if they keep playing that they will eventually come out ahead. If you never give back part of their money people run out of money too quickly and they will leave too quickly and they might go to different casino where they feel they have better odds.

[–]rainman_104 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Provided that you occasionally give back part of the players' money a lot of people will perceive that if they keep playing that they will eventually come out ahead.

I've seen this happen first hand - that a player who was in the hole a substantial amount was comped to the point where odds were tilted in his favour. He clawed back all of his losses to a positive gain.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

And spent lawd knows how much on booze in the process.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

i'm not trying to be the [citation needed] guy, but i'm genuinely interested what you're basing on this on and i'd like to read an article or something.

[–]flyryan 8 points9 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I don't have anything to link you to unfortunately. I actually live in Vegas and deal with casinos day in and day out and just see first hand how business is handled.

You can watch any of those Discovery/History Channel documentaries on Vegas and get basically the same information.

[–]Nougat -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Casinos make a whole lot more money on non-gambling entertainment and hospitality. Rooms, shows, food, stuff like that.

[–]Paisleyfrog 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Vegas is the city that was built on a 2% house advantage, not a $19.99 all you can eat seafood buffet.

Rooms, shows, food, are used as inducements to come and gamble. If a casino can get you in the door, there's a good chance you'll drop more money than just on dinner.

[–]Ultimateamp 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I think the point is that it would still be under mob control if they had never instituted regulations which gave authorities the ability to investigate fraud and prosecute those committing it, ie mob members.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Here's the actual page with a tiny bit more info.

[–]zachv 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

This is probably one of those things that if people knew about, and believed, they might care about. Unfortunately...

[–]cos 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Plenty of people care. If most of those who care about this actually believed that other people also care, and actually tried to do something about it, our elections would be run rather differently.

  1. We have the large number of people who feel cynically that "if only people cared about this, but unfortunately..." and it's hard to convince them otherwise.

  2. We have a small but very significant portion of the activist community, who aren't discouraged by an illusion that people don't care, but who do believe that since there are flaws in how elections are administered, we can't actually use the democratic process to improve things. So they have no electoral component to their activism, and hence predictable get very little accomplished.

  3. Then we have that portion of the activist community and their supporters who are networked, are realistic, and are effective. They'd get a lot further if they had the first two groups along with them, but nevertheless, a lot of progress has been made. It's not just that touchscreen voting has been kicked out of Florida and California, it's also states like New Hampshire where almost every aspect of the election system is transparent and accurate.

[–]zachv 0 points1 point ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I'll write Franken (potential my new senator) about it as soon as he wins.

In the meantime, I'll write to other people about it.

[–]cos 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Minnesota, as you can see from the Franken-Coleman recount, does actually use real paper ballots, which is what makes a meaningful recount possible. Overall, I have a lot of faith in Minnesota's election process. Of course as a US Senator Franken can do something about the rest of the country too.

[–]zachv 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

That's my hope, as well. I get sick hearing about these stories about how poorly some Diebold election machines work.

[–]tuber 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Have you spoken with your family and friends?

[–]infoaddicted 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

This image lives at WaPo, would the poster give us the link to the article it's a part of?

[–]samsm 11 points12 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Found it: Washington Post: How To Steal an Election

The extra context establishes the source as University of Pennsylvania visiting professor Steve Freeman, and provides a modest amount of advertising which supports the Washington Post so they are less inclined to do something silly like require registration.

[–]infoaddicted 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Thanks!

[–]rcran 3 points4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

What the hell is the 'handling disputes' doodle of???

[–]tsswope 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Two angry faces, nose-to-nose.

[–]gamblekat 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

To be fair, there have been a number of cases where slot machines in Nevada have been rigged. (Dennis McAndrew, for example, was convicted twice for subverting machines in Las Vegas) And those are just the ones we know about.

[–]mobyhead1 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Clearly, the outcome is more important on the slot machine, so it is scrutinized most carefully. It makes practically no difference who you vote for on the voting machine--you're going to get a statist who wants to increase the size of the state at the expense of personal liberty, whether you vote Democrat or Republican--so why bother doing more than a half-assed job on the voting machine?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Yes, personal gain is much more important than making sure your vote was counted correctly.

[–]unkyduck 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I'd like to see the same comparison for ATM and voting machine. I've never detected an error in decades of atm use. Maybe the best answer is transfer 1 cent to the candidate of your choice- paper record available onsite- it's a poll tax, but it's close to feasible.

[–]ssassi7 5 points6 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Nice. Shame they're operated by banks

[–]SAugsburger 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I actually DO remember one error in ATM use. I deposited multiple checks and somehow the bank didn't deposit one of the checks. I called the bank and they didn't claim any mistake on their part, but strangely a few days later their was a correction on my account for the exact amount of the check. I don't know whether the check somehow got missed when it was processed, but fortunately I didn't need the money at that point so my checking account never went negative.

One thing I have noticed a lot is that ATM machines have a lot more downtime than they I remembered in the past. I have gone to an ATM machine 3-4 times in the last year that was apparently non-functional. What is really sad is that the Diebold based ATMs run on embedded Windows so sometimes they get a BSOD and need to be rebooted.

[–]asw66 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Years ago I was working in a bank, and someone loaded the ATM's 20 dollar tray with 50s, and vice versa. We lost a lot of money when people found out that they got $200 for an $80 withdrawal. But I'm pretty sure that the bank simply went after the people that did that, and adjusted their accounts. They don't like to lose!

[–]underdog138 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

The bad deposit at the ATM was more than likely the bank's fault. The bank I used to work at, we would pull the deposits from the ATM vault at 9 AM and 3 PM every day, open all the envelopes and process them at our teller station just like a regular transaction. It then goes through the proof department as normal. The ATM simply puts a temporary credit to your account for the amount you typed in. No funds are actually transferred until it goes through proof that night.

Sounds like the teller processing the ATM deposits or the proof department cocked up somewhere.

[–]danweber 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

If you want to get rid of the secret ballot, electronic voting can easily be made as simple and secure as ATMs.

[–]SAugsburger 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

There is one thing that isn't completely correct. Under oversight, some states like CA there is an actual certification process done by a public agency. Furthermore, the certification process isn't merely for show because there have been machines that have actually failed the certification process and counties have been forced to use other certified machines.

Not every state has certfication processes, but it is inaccurate to say that all voting machines lack any public oversight process. Like most things your mileage may vary depending upon what state you are in.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You're like 2 months too late

[–]Grimalkin[S] 1 point2 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I know, but I have over 1000 upvotes, which is quite baffling....What would I have gotten if I had posted this on Nov. 1st?

[–]schammy 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Why is this country so ass backwards? This image is nothing but depressing.

[–]munificent 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

At first I had a funny. Then I had a sad.

[–]rfugger 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

All conspiracy theories aside (not that I don't believe in them), the budget for building and operating slot machines (and ATMs for that matter) is several orders of magnitude higher than for voting machines, because there is revenue in operating slot machines.

[–]omegian 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Because canvassing boards buying 6 - 10 voting machines per precinct isn't a revenue stream?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Slot Machines vs. Electronic Voting Machines

There's a difference?

[–]Socialism 25 points26 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Yeah, sometimes a winnar is you when it comes to the slot machines.

[–]eroverton 5 points6 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Now why did I laugh at that?

[–]smoknjuan 10 points11 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

There's no coin slot on the election machine. Payout is valued accordingly.

[–]Lukesed 0 points1 point ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

The "Handling Disputes" row shows obvious bias. Both of them say "call the government and they will do whatever they feel like".

[–]locriology 10 points11 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You're right, but I think the rest of the comparisons speak for themselves without bias.

[–]bendlund 6 points7 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

No, there is a special regulatory body that actively enforces standards for and responds to disputes about gaming machines - this isn't uniformly or generally the case with voting machines.

[–]infoaddicted 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

What bias does it show?

[–]Lukesed 1 point2 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You really don't see a difference in tone there? The one about Las Vegas doesn't say whether or not the Gaming Control Board is required to investigate all complaints, and it doesn't make stupid cracks about the phone system. The part about the voting machines doesn't say what actually happens if the complaint is investigated (specifically, whether the machines can be examined and voting records accessed).

Maybe they're completely right, but you can't tell from this chart because of all of that data they've left out.

[–]khoury 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You really don't see a difference in tone there? The one about Las Vegas doesn't say whether or not the Gaming Control Board is required to investigate all complaints, and it doesn't make stupid cracks about the phone system.

I'll give you your first point. But in regards to the phone system it's for the most part true. The board of elections in many, many areas is overwhelmed and next to useless.

The part about the voting machines doesn't say what actually happens if the complaint is investigated (specifically, whether the machines can be examined and voting records accessed).

Actually it makes it pretty clear what their recourse is by demonstrating what kind of capability they don't have. No chip comparisons, no software checks and no background checks on programmers. What good is accessing voting records if the foundation for their creation is entirely out of your control or if you're incapable of auditing it?

Maybe they're completely right, but you can't tell from this chart because of all of that data they've left out.

It would be nice if they had been a bit more informative, but regardless it's pretty damning.

[–]mattius 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

So what you're saying is that I should play the slots instead of participate in the democratic process?

[–]Jonathan_the_Nerd 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

If you play the slots, there's a chance you might win.

[–]rrra 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

So maybe voting booths should have a plethora of watchdog timers that are tied into humans that service and are responsible for the machine. For example, if the machine doesn't hear word back from the inspector that authorizes a portion of the machines functionality, it'll just shut down and stop processing votes. To subvert the system you would to begin with need a whole network of human officials to all go unethical.

[–]martoo 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Well, it makes sense. There's real money at stake in slot machines. Voting is disconnected from money. The government can print up as much money as it wants to regardless of who is in office.

[–]crosbyface 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

sounds about right.

[–]charlatan 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

When elections involve Russian Roulette, they'll be worth taking seriously.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

whats at risk? Money/integrity of a nation

which do you think our gov't values more?

[–]jeannaimard 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I wonder what the public reaction if every voting machine had a "State of $INSERT_YOUR_STATE_HERE gambling commission seal of approval", though... :)

[–]ace_wolfgang 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Now that's what I call "High Stakes Voting".

[–]frogking 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

In other words: Campaign contributions should be used for gambling at a set of slot machines .. the candidate who has most money at a specific date becomes president.

[–]cefm 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

At least they share one thing: with either one you're guaranteed to lose over the long term.

[–]tekrat 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Soooo... does this mean Obama didn't win the election?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I like the picture of the lady with the boobies.

[–]spamdefender -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

So, what you are saying is that the election was rigged in favor of Obama, right?

[–]uncoveror -3 points-2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Electronic elections: Rigged as rassin'.

[–]Othello -3 points-2 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

There's no money in voting.

Edit: Wow, some real pro-government types around I see.

[–]Aaronius 3 points4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Actually, if you can control the votes, you can control quite a bit of money.

[–]Othello 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Good luck taxing it.

My point is there's no money in it for the government like there is with gambling.

[–]Aaronius 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I see your point.

I was pointing out that those you elect with your votes, theoretically control large amounts of tax money.

Edit: Wow, some real pro-government types around I see.

I'm an anarchist.

[–]Othello 0 points1 point ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

The pro-govt comment wasn't directed at you. Before or after you replied (I forget the order) it had been downvoted. Since my comment is true, the only reason to downvote it is if you feel I'm bashing the government undeservedly, or if you just don't get it.

I was pointing out that those you elect with your votes, theoretically control large amounts of tax money.

This is true, but that means having a broken system would be to their advantage. If there were checks and balances corrupt politicians wouldn't be able to buy votes via these private companies. Generally speaking, the corrupt ones care the most about the money.

Meanwhile, having a broken system for gambling would mean politicians get less money. If the system is broken then you lose the overt taxes, and with no rules there is no need to bribe government officials. With a tightly run ship however, the government will get most of the tax money and politicians are able to take bribes to loosen the rules. No rules no loosening required.

[–]Aaronius 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I see what you're saying. I think the down votes of your original statement were because people, including myself, thought you were saying that there's no incentive for corrupting the vote; because there was no money in it.

[–]Othello 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Probably, but that's because people were forgetting the context of the original article. It was a comparison of slot machines versus voting machines, and the obvious implication of the data is that the government is extra careful about slots but doesn't do anything to protect voting machines.

Think about it and apply Occam's Razor here, my statement either means "there is no money in fixing the vote" which is patently untrue, or "there is no money in protecting the vote" which is arguably true. Which seems more likely, and why is your first reaction to pick the nonsensical one? To be honest, even though you are a nice guy/gal/autobot, context is really something you should consider thinking about more in the future, since in the context of the topic at hand your interpretation makes no sense.

[–]matt2500 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Which is why this software should be open source. Heck, there's no money in browsers, either, but open source did a good job with Firefox.

[–]masfenix 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I dont get why people keep saying that? While you might be able to check it out and approve it's authtencity, the governement (or the company that designs these machines) COULD MODIFY the code and use it for fraud.

[–]sligowaths 0 points1 point ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Heck, there's no money in browsers

wrong

[–]matt2500 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I knew that would come up. Mozilla, though, is a non-profit, which is my larger point. An honest open-source community could charge boards of election for technical support/consulting/training, pouring profits back into the development process. But hey, let's just let Diebold keep on charging millions for junk software whose workings are completely opaque.

[–][deleted] ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

You expect Obama to cancel elections forever?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Yeah! OBAMA! CHANGE! Awesome! AIDS are over! I am an winrar!

[–]iansocool -1 points0 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I see the wine glass in the last image, do you?