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top 200 commentsshow all 444

[–]Jey_Lux 8 points9 points ago

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I didn't force your hand to mortgage your shitty house, I didn't force you to swap complex mortgage back security bonds of junk. But I get to pay for it.

I don't get your bonuses. But i get to pay for it.

I didn't go on your luxury vacation,

But i get to pay for it.

I have zero debt, and I am current. But I get to pay for yours.

Doesn't this seem worse?

[–]Jey_Lux 2 points3 points ago

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At least the car industry MAKES something.

I don't understand the hostility towards the big 3?

They produced what? Cars and Trucks.

What ones did they sell? Trucks.

Why? People bought them.

Are we saying that they should have the cooperate responsibility for forcing the hand of the consumer to buying more fuel efficient cars?

If that's true, then why aren't these banks behind held responsible? Why aren't lenders who gave mortgages to people with little to no proof of income at fault? Why do I have to pay 700 BILLION to fix that?

But you can't let the Auto industry have the scraps? <br>

Chasing bad money with more money?

Oh... like that 700 billion that was supposed to stabilize our economy... That's panned out well.

lastly, they want a LOAN. They plan to pay it back. At least they're trying. The CITI banks and AIG's of the world just go with open hands, and get free money. within what? 10 hours?

Now, NONE of this would i consider FREE MARKET (the whole point).

But, if you're going to give free hand outs to people with horrible cooperate practices, how can you single other companies out? The precedence was set. The wallet was open for any shitty company. Now we get to pick and choose. Why?

[–]portugal_the_man 1 point2 points ago*

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Well it's pent-up anger. I think most people realize the banker bailout for what it was, and there's jack shit that we can do about it now, so we're taking our anger out on anybody else that's asking for money.

Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again

[–]armper 12 points13 points ago*

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My Focus actually gets great gas mileage. Better than my old Mitsubishi.

[–]CellBlock 2 points3 points ago

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Yes, the new Fords are actually pretty nice. I just bought a 2009 Focus and I love it, and it got 35+ MPG on the trip from DC to Pittsburgh to visit family for Thanksgiving.

The 2010 Focus should be even nicer, since I hear they're just bringing the European model to the US. (My 2009 has a lot of European-styled features, and despite being quite compact, it sits high enough to not end up wedged under someone's Escalade.)

Ford will be able to take a loan and improve their bottom line. Chrysler, I don't even know about, but I'm pretty sure they don't make money on anything anymore. GM will have to cut a lot of fat to get back in the black, but if they drop/combine brands, they've got attractive enough offerings to survive.

[–]theg2 0 points1 point ago

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My 98 Nissan Maxima with a V6 DOHC gets 32MPG highway...

The key is taking care of your vehicle, and most people just don't do that.

[–]Jey_Lux 3 points4 points ago

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my Buick gets 31mpg?

obviously GM is in the wrong though.

[–]irregardless 2 points3 points ago*

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My 99 Saturn SC2 gets 31/35, and has never broken down. Every time I say that, I fear that I'm jinxing it, but the car just keeps on going. It's 10 years old, has more than 100K miles and has never been in the shop for anything other than standard maintenance and a couple blown speakers (my fault).

Of course, I tend to drive in a reasonable manner. Speed limit or slower, no sudden acceleration or braking, coast as much as possible, no impulse to "one up" my fellow motorists.

[–]chiggers 1 point2 points ago

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You took your car in the shop to replace your speakers? La-di-dah!

[–]irregardless 1 point2 points ago

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Covered by warranty, so yep.

[–]JasonDJ 1 point2 points ago

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Saturns warranty covers stupidity now?

Looks like I'm buying a Saturn...

[–]irregardless 0 points1 point ago

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YMMV

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points ago

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Can people stop whining about small fuel efficient cars? Of course the big three make them, Chevy Aveo, Ford Focus, anyone? And of course Toyota and Honda etc. make giant honking land whales. I think Toyota Tacomas and Land Cruisers probably use more gas in a month than my car uses in a year. The big three were better at making trucks and SUVs, and they knew they couldn't beat Toyota at their own game, so that's where they put their money. Comparative advantage, economics 101. That's what's been keeping them afloat for the last decade or so, so I won't knock them for doing it. I'm certain that even with all these restrictions on what they can make, they will still go broke.

[–]jergens 5 points6 points ago

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Since Al Gore made it trendy to buy fuel-sippers, everyone forgot how popular trucks were. Toyota was DYING to get into the game, and couldn't do it. They are just now catching up with quality in trucks, just as the U.S companies are finally catching up with cars. That's the way it rolls. The Japanese have been subsidizing their companies for decades, and now it's our turn to subsidize with a loan, not a bailout. Bailouts are for banks for some reason.

[–]bronco92 2 points3 points ago*

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Actually, people who can only afford a civic or corolla felt very smug when gas $4-$5 for a minute.

[–]Jey_Lux 3 points4 points ago*

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i want to give you more points for this.

[–]draconnery 4 points5 points ago

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I want to give both of you more points!

Also, half of jergens's comment was half of my comment on a different posting of this same stupid image. So, I also want everyone to give me points.

[–]jergens 0 points1 point ago

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Half of your comment regarding the half of my comment that was half of your previous comment was mine, so since i can't give you half a point, I'll give you a whole one!

[–]bCabulon 2 points3 points ago

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I find it really fucked up that people swallowed all the wall street handouts, at a cost of hundreds of billions, with little to no complaint, and now are screaming bloody hell for a manufacturing handout that costs a fraction as much but will save millions of jobs. The excesses in the auto industry a nothing compared to those of the financial sector.

[–]jpezzznuts 12 points13 points ago

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Heyyy... what's wrong with my Ford Windstar?

[–]anachronic 33 points34 points ago

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Everything

[–]beastrabban 2 points3 points ago*

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i dunno, its not very reliable but its a good vehicle for families, practical and safe. people knock on minivans but they forget that you are moving a lot of cargo space with a small engine, thus creating a very efficent vehicle, relatively.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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Most minivans have the same engines as mid-size SUV's, and weigh about the same, while getting very similar gas mileage. The main difference is that minivan's sacrifice traditional suv trunk space for an extra row of seats.

[–]badjoke33 6 points7 points ago

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And you can put the seats down for the trunk space back.

[–]snayan 97 points98 points ago

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but.... he took "A Message from US Auto makers" and "You wouldnt buy our shitty cars, so...." COMBINED them, posted the pic on a different site so that he could post and now we are all fortunate enough to have such a masterfully titled submission.

[–]vintermann 236 points237 points ago

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More importantly, I saw it. I didn't see any of the other ones.

[–]Orangutan 56 points57 points ago*

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Same here. A good message is worth repeating at times. Not everyone sees it the first time. I imagine the person complaining didn't either.

[–][deleted] 103 points104 points ago

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Same here. A good message is worth repeating at times. Not everyone sees it the first time. I imagine the person complaining didn't either.

[–]groutexpectations 11 points12 points ago

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You wouldn't buy our shitty cars. So we'll be taking your money anyway. The Bailout. Coming this January.

[–]neuquino 6 points7 points ago

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Thank you for posting the text. Can't see 'personal storage' sites from here.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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You wouldn't buy our money. So we'll be shitting your bailout. The Cars. Coming this January.

[–]heathenish 1 point2 points ago

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NOW I'm laughing.

[–]bellabelial 1 point2 points ago

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You, sir, win an Internet for making my boss laugh.

[–]dpjames 1 point2 points ago

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agreed. you're either addicted to reddit or you're not

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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masterful indeed

[–][deleted] 65 points66 points ago

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Bitch bitch bitch

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points ago

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This one is a direct link...

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points ago

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Only #2 isn't blogspam and doesn't have annoying ads or require you to scroll to see the image.

[–]darjen 8 points9 points ago*

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this is why I always check the comments first before clicking.

[–]kihadat 7 points8 points ago

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It's all in the title. Didn't you go to journalism school?

[–]basketball 5 points6 points ago

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No. No I did not.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points ago

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Never saw it, and I imagine many of us didn't, hence, why it's there now.

[–]sdraz 5 points6 points ago

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I see what you did there.

[–]gusevx 1 point2 points ago*

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That's how we do it here in the D. We take yo shit.

[–]spi131313 1 point2 points ago

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http://www.forthgo.com/blog/2006/11/13/automobile-maker-market-share-chart/

Where does this keep coming from? People DO buy their shitty cars... It's just that GM loses money for every shitty car they sell ;-)

[–]sketec 18 points19 points ago

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I drive a Honda Fit in a rural area. I'm pretty much surrounded by SUV's and Trucks (not to mention most of their drivers move here to get away from big city life, and their extremely aggressive bad drivers). The large vehicles are a danger to people driving smaller ones, like myself. I don't want my tax money to go to companies that keep making vehicles like this: http://www.chevrolet.com/suburban/

[–]stinkypyper 15 points16 points ago

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I have no problem with large vehicles, if they serve a purpose. I hate the people who buy vehicles they don't need. For instance, a pick-up truck is an important tool for a construction contractor or farmer, but when I see them barreling around the city with a bed cap on and not a scratch on them I just shake my head. They buy a pick-up truck but never pick anything up.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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This was where GM really messed up from the late 80s to early 00's: People were buying giant trucks and SUVs because they could, and GM was making a buttload of money off of them (much higher profit margin than cars). In 2003 they began restructuring to a car-based profit model, but this process was cut short by this economic situation.

[–]Jey_Lux 1 point2 points ago

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oh no no no, it's GM's fault for not forcing the consumer to buy a car rather than a Truck.

[–]one2gamble 6 points7 points ago

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The pilot and ridgeline arent exactly small

[–]badjoke33 8 points9 points ago

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My mom got a Tahoe and it feels like I'm piloting a boat of a spaceship when I drive it. It's ridiculously huge. It doesn't help that she's a horrible driver, too.

[–]aeon2012 1 point2 points ago

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I've realized that the majority of bad SUV drivers in Seattle tend to be tiny old asian ladies.

[–]badjoke33 6 points7 points ago

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  1. How'd you know I live in Seattle?
  2. As racist as it sounds, you're right. When spotting a bad driver, I always play a game in my head. "Old, Asian or Woman?" It's always some combination.

[–]Bagel 2 points3 points ago

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I've thought this exact thing before. I'm suprised when the vehicle doesn't implode when a 3-combo happens.

[–]traxxas 4 points5 points ago

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The majority of bad drivers are tiny old humans.

[–]haruspex 1 point2 points ago

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with telephones glued to their heads

[–]kcb2 11 points12 points ago

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Be mad at the people buying them, not the people making them. If nobody would buy the large SUV gas guzzlers, they wouldn't be companies making them - its simple supply and demand. SUV's and pickup trucks have been big profit centers for all automomakers (Toyota and Nissan too!)

I guess you would blame a gun manufacturer for someone getting shot too...

[–]BrotherSeamus 2 points3 points ago

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I'm mad at the people who've spent the last 50 years lobbying to keep them cheaper than responsible alternatives.

[–]Halligan 3 points4 points ago

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Aren't the big 3 failing at least partially because people have stopped buying those behemoths? Toyota and Nissan are hurting too, but have some decent options to fall back on in the mid-size and small car market.

[–]portugal_the_man 0 points1 point ago

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You will never be rid of the "modern mom" demographic, so you will never be rid of people who will want to buy those cars.

And if you don't know what I'm talking about, sit in a Target parking lot in a middle to upper-middle class neighborhood, preferably with a Wal-Mart somewhere near by.

Late morning to early afternoon is the best time.

[–]barryicide 2 points3 points ago

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What don't you understand about this - the bailout loan is not so the manufacturers can keep making huge-ass cars; they need money to restructure and redesign themselves so they can make nice, smaller fuel-efficient cars. Ford is already restructuring itself with its cash reserves and it is charted to be profitable again in 2010. GM and Chrysler don't have the cash and can't get low-interest loans to fix themselves, so they basically keep fucking themselves up.

Think of it this way - it's like sending someone to school at a low interest rate so they can come out of school with a better education and get a better job (and they will pay you back with interest).

[–]Bagel 0 points1 point ago

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Yeah, but what they are promising is kind of weak compared to even their european counterparts.

[–]satx 0 points1 point ago

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not to mention most of their drivers move here to get away from big city life, and their extremely aggressive bad drivers

Are you saying that the drivers of the SUVs and trucks in your area are extremely aggressive bad drivers or that they moved to the country to escape the bad drivers in the city?

[–]BinaryShadow 0 points1 point ago*

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If you live in a rural area, then the pickups might be needed for hauling equipment, etc. No excuse for the SUV's though.

[–]jarvis400 5 points6 points ago

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That's bullshit. I'm very happy with my Canyonero.

[–]cooleyandy 2 points3 points ago

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Like the NES, our economy needs a Reset button. Clear all the shitty companies, and restart our economy with more appropriate businesses and less clutter.

[–]MazdaEric 2 points3 points ago

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Has America produced a quality automobile in recent history?

[–]shenglong 1 point2 points ago

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The Ford Focus was pretty decent at the time of it's release, but that's largely because it's main competitor, the VW Golf MK IV, was a piece of shit.

[–]afschmidt 3 points4 points ago

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The problems that the big three face do not involve selling vehicles. The current management must now deal with decades of mis-management of pension funds and healthcare costs. These problems are not new. The pension problems were flagged over 20 years ago and no one dealt with the under funding of pension liabilities.

And the line that all they sold was SUV's is nonsense. Toyota, Honda and Nissan has all sold HUGE SUV's and trucks in North America and made HUGE profits on all of that sheet metal.(Have you seen the size of a Nissan Armada?! I was astounded). Japanese auto makers make large profits in the US, not in their home country.

As for quality, the domestic stuff is WAY better than it used to be. I've owned a lot of different vehicles in nearly 30 years and GM/Ford and Chrysler have made huge gains in quality. You get a lot for your money when you buy domestic.

[–]BlazinEurasian 14 points15 points ago*

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My ford Xploder costs a fortune in gas, is unreliable, slow, and depresses me while I drive.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNjcyHMsRSQ

[–]anachronic 26 points27 points ago

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Uhhhh.... so why did you buy it?

[–]indescription 64 points65 points ago*

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Because it was all he could a ford.

[–]Nougat 24 points25 points ago

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He should have explored other options.

[–]schala09 27 points28 points ago

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I think his life could use a bit more focus.

[–]Drasla 5 points6 points ago

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Maybe you could Escort him in the right direction. It's what any Ranger would do.

[–]BoonTobias 10 points11 points ago*

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Now he just wants to escape this situation

[–]BlazinEurasian 6 points7 points ago*

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Going to school present. Was my moms car, she bought it from my retired used car salesman 70 year old uncle.

[–]kickstand 28 points29 points ago

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My going to school present was ... um, what was it again? oh yeah, going to school.

[–]indescription 35 points36 points ago

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My going to school present was.... umm wait, I paid for my school. Shit! I graduated 8 years ago and I am STILL paying for my school.

[–]Gargilius 17 points18 points ago

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...and now you are also paying for the car you didn't have when you were in school.

[–]jeff303 3 points4 points ago

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My going to school present was one snowshoe. I had to work part-time to earn enough for the other one. And I'll just leave you to speculate as to seemingly paradoxical relative elevations of my home and this workplace.

[–]fireworkkid 2 points3 points ago

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downhill both ways is nothing to complain about.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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If it was uphill both ways, you should have just walked backwards.

[–]DOGA 19 points20 points ago

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You got a free car? No bitching, please.

[–]Gargilius 33 points34 points ago

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what if it were of the wrong color? don't be so insensitive.

[–]fujimitsu 9 points10 points ago

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Yay ford!

My ranger is currently encased in ice. Can't open the doors because the handles are made of such cheap plastic that they break off (yes, it has happened).

Hopefully I can thaw it out in the coming days and drift about like a hockey puck covered in ky.

[–]scoobeee 1 point2 points ago*

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Ha! My VW, Subaru, and other pieces of crap used to do that too. I can sorta remember what ice is like but its fading fast thanks to california winters.

[–]fujimitsu 4 points5 points ago*

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The fact that it's frozen up isn't the issue, it's that I can't force them open because of the shit handle construction.

Also, fuck you for being in a warm state. I'm already covered in bruises from slipping all over the damn place.

[–]haruspex 0 points1 point ago

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I snapped the handle off my Acura in a freak ice storm a couple of years ago.

[–]fireworkkid 1 point2 points ago

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I felt the same damn way about mine.

And then I got a BMW for free! Life is awesome sometimes.

[–]erreon 32 points33 points ago

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So much bitching.. It's a LOAN and the last time a car company had to take a LOAN from the government it was paid back with interest in half the time that was originally agreed upon. I'm tired of all the armchair economists saying we can live with out manufacturing. How the hell do you know? You don't. This is a LOAN unlike what was given freely to the white collar workers on wall street. Go back to bitching about that because that is where we really got shafted.

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/economy/a/chryslerBailout.htm

[–]jamiequint 12 points13 points ago

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If its really that good of a deal, why don't any private lenders want in?

[–]randyest 1 point2 points ago

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This is the key and salient question that proponents of the auto bailout (including GW Bush and Obama) ignore and somehow our hard-hitting media bulldogs also ignore.

I've a business selling refrigerators to Eskimos that isn't doing well. I need a bailout or my many employees will be out of work. And the long-standing American tradition symbolized by my company will shattered unless the government (read: taxpayers) help me. And all those businesses who depend on selling to my employees will be out of work too; it'll be horrible! By my wholly unsubstantiated estimation, 10 million people will be out of work and the USA will fall into a depression if I don't get a huge, uncollateralized loan that amounts to free money with no penalty to me if I don't pay it back (but I promise I will!)

So sign right here, I mean, how could you not?! I sold my private jet (for now) and may cut my salary a bit (though my stock options and "cash grants" will still be in the tens of millions of dollars) just to show you how seriously I need your money to help keep my ridiculously shitty business alive for a few more months until I have to ask for your money to bail me out again.

But seriously, don't you want to maintain the image of the USA's awesome manufacturing sector: "we suck at making shitty cars you don't want to buy but your government will make you pay for us to keep making them anyway!"

What's not to love? BIG 3 BIG 3 BIG 3 YAY UAW YAY UAW YAY UAW!

[–]sunshine-x 63 points64 points ago*

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Surely they can't default on this loan, or negotiate their way out of it by threatening to cut jobs. Also, I'm sure they're paying a fair interest rate on this, say about 6% like I pay on my car.

What's that? None of that applies? Big surprise.

edit: to those commenting on my high interest rate for a car, let's use the current lending rate on my line of credit instead. It's prime+about 1%, or about 6%.

[–]mee_k 44 points45 points ago

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People also seem to be ignoring the non-zero chance that this loan won't be enough, or indeed that these companies will never become viable again. Just because it worked once does not mean it will work again.

[–]quietsushishh 5 points6 points ago

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6%? Whoa, you got the shaft. I got 3% at my credit union in August....

[–]neat_stuff 7 points8 points ago*

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5% I think.

"The seven-year loans would carry a 5 percent interest rate and the czar could compel early repayment if progress isn’t being made on restructuring plans. Shareholders, creditors, suppliers and dealers would work on the restructuring."

Which I got from http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9oXULTO1yFM&refer=home

edit: I couldn't find info online, but I think I heard that if the automakers do not pay on time or meet some other conditions that the rate will go up to 9%. This mentions it: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/nov/17/democrats-introduce-automaker-bailout-bill-senate/ but I don't know if that is from the final bill or not.

[–]sunshine-x 11 points12 points ago

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Isn't giving money to people who can't possibly pay it back exactly what got us in this mess in the first place?

How does loaning money to historically failing businesses any different?

[–]neat_stuff 3 points4 points ago

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I'm not saying it is a good idea or not. I'm just saying that they are expected to pay an interest rate that is very similar to what people frequently pay for cars which you didn't seem to think was going to be the case. They even have a rate hike if they don't pay on time just like we do.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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"say about 6% like I pay on my car."

That's your fault. Seriously, that is your fault.

[–]ungulation 16 points17 points ago

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It's basically a foregone conclusion that they won't pay it back. If anyone thought they would pay it back a private lender would see it as a good investment. As it stands it's too risky for any traditional businesses to invest in.

[–]borlak 11 points12 points ago*

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I don't have to be an economist to know you don't give money, or "loans", to failing companies

[–]remccain -2 points-1 points ago

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Explain why the companies are failing.

Explain how allowing a million auto-related workers to become unemployed is beneficial.

Explain why banks only lend money to successful companies and never to new start-ups or companies that need financial assistance.

[–]Infinity_Wasted 7 points8 points ago

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at the most basic level, the companies are failing because they can't make a profit on the products they are selling.

It isn't benificial to have millions of auto-related workers to go unemployed, but if they have valuable skills, they will be rehired in other capacities.

Banks (in a perfect market system) lend money to companies that have a history of profit. new companies don't have the history, or the market testing to get those loans. companies in need of assistance generally do get loans on specified terms. but like a homeowner, if you apply for several loans yet have dwindling profits, the shit is going to hit the fan.

[–]jsully 4 points5 points ago*

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Explain why the companies are failing.

Toyota doesn't seem to be on the brink of collapse despite all of the turmoil. They actually sell more vehicles than GM, so it stands to reason that they would be more hurt by the downturn, and yet that's not the case.

As for why they're failing, I once had a management class that looked at the inevitable demise of Ford. Aside from the fact that Ford spent years ignoring what American consumers wanted in a car, the company has an unbelievably fucked up hierarchy. From the lowest salesperson up to the president of the company, there are 35 levels of management. Pair that with the fact that many people are overpaid at nearly every level. You can't build a company with that much bloat and expect it to survive. It's designed to collapse.

Explain how allowing a million auto-related workers to become unemployed is beneficial.

It certainly doesn't benefit anyone to add a million people to the jobless list, but I just don't understand how that enters into this discussion. At the end of the day, this is about business. It's not the taxpayers' responsibility to guarantee that you work for a company that can sustain itself. It's also not the taxpayers job to save your company because it's going to collapse and leave you unemployed. While it often gets crapped on, we have a very good unemployment system in this country, and this is why it exists.

Explain why banks only lend money to successful companies and never to new start-ups or companies that need financial assistance.

Banks generally don't fund startups, that's what venture capital firms are for. VC firms also have very strict standards and models that they follow to make sure they get a solid return on their investment.

[–]FrankBattaglia 15 points16 points ago

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Explain how allowing a million auto-related workers to become unemployed is beneficial.

Straw man. People in this country still buy cars. If Michigan stops making them, the foreign companies will step up production to compensate, requiring more workers. Guess where they'll be able to find a pool of workers skilled in the auto business?

A more realistic view is looking at "a million auto-related workers having a different corporate logo on their paychecks."

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Explain why I should allow my tax dollars to bail out yet another set of incompetently run companies? That isn't capitalism, that's corporate welfare on MY dime.

[–]Pilebsa 5 points6 points ago

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Loan or no loan... why should my money go to bail out a company that can't run a profitable business? I don't care how many people they employ. Those people will find new jobs and someone will buy the ashes of these companies and come up with a better business.

[–]phill0 11 points12 points ago

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It's not a LOAN, it's a TRAP! They are gonna default on the loan and we're all gonna be screwed.

[–]kickstand 4 points5 points ago

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It hasn't happened yet. Let's make sure our lawmakers make it a loan with reasonable terms for taxpayers.

[–]NakedOni 5 points6 points ago

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I'm still bitching about both.

[–]jdc123 1 point2 points ago

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I couldn't upvote this enough. I'm very tired f hearing people complain about the automaker loan while seemingly forgetting about the trillion dollars that is vanishing into the coffers of banks without any oversight at all.

[–]BordrGuy108 1 point2 points ago

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Even if this "loan" is paid back it is not the role of the government to choose winners and losers in our economy. That's called fascism. If this loan in the past worked so well then why are the auto companies back again for more? The fact is this "loan" is unfair and unproductive and if these auto companies are so stable and this is such a good deal then let them go get a loan from an actual private bank rather than coercing citizens to lend it to them.

[–]jsully 1 point2 points ago

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Not only do I agree with what you've said, but you're one of the 0.01% of internet people who know how to correctly use the term fascism. One upvote for you!

[–]naughtymonkey69 5 points6 points ago

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so is a bailout for them official, or is there still a chance it wont pass?

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points ago

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There was never a chance that it wouldn't pass.

[–]kickstand 0 points1 point ago

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Um, tell that to the House republicans who pushed for a better bailout package to the banks, and got it. Without their support, this will fail.

[–]lynn 1 point2 points ago

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They won't fail to give their support.

[–]yoda133113 0 points1 point ago

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They still passed a bailout though, so yay we got slightly better shit because of the House, we still got shit!

[–]MarlonBain 0 points1 point ago*

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Wait. They passed the bailout, right? So how is this evidence that the auto bailout won't pass?

[–]DirtySouth 6 points7 points ago

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I just can't imagine most of the commenters here being old enough to drive.

[–]keito 1 point2 points ago

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perhaps they should start progressing and helping mankind by building cars that people want to buy... like electric.

or investing in other more green technologies.

that is the only way I can see any money from government being beneficial to the people.

[–]aju2 8 points9 points ago

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I worked for one of the big three auto companies for 30 years. I retired early. What a lot of people don't realize is most of us who were able to retire early, and or made the big bucks every year, worked 60 or more hours a week, and sometimes worked every single day in the year, so we could do that. As in we actually working 365 days a year. Most of the people (not all)through the years who have claimed I made more money then they did, and was therefor over paid, would die before they would do what I did to make that money, actually some had the chance and turned it down. Now after 30 years of doing what I was told I had to do to earn my retirement, it looks like it will be taken from me. Some of you might feel we don't deserve our retirement anyway. That would be like you getting a very good deal for a house, paying for the house for 30 years, having it completely paid for, then someone saying, well you had it too well for those 30 years, we are taking your house away. I didn't make the decisions that were made to make big cars. Matter a fact GM didn't really even make that decision, our customers did. On the one hand they would say, we want smaller cars, then they would buy the big ones. Another rant I have is that although many of you are very hard workers, the people who seemed to complain about factory workers the most spend much of their days in offices talking about golf, their stocks, and how lazy the people are that work making what ever there company sells. Then they call it networking, and good for the company. I have seen this first hand. If you went to four or more years of college, and forgot to make sure before hand if they pay enough to pay off your loans, or if there were actually jobs in your field, that is something you could have avoided. Don't blame the autoworker who made most of our decisions thirty years ago, and so are kind of locked in to them. Also two last things, Japanese and German autoworkers make as much or more then I did, when you take in to account the differences in how health care and other social issues are addressed. Other countries though did not fair as well. Finally, the jobsbank were some people got paid for doing nothing, most people actually would rather work, and the union never meant it to actually turn out that way. The plan was that GM would use that vast deep well of knowledge they had available, to figure out a way to smooth out the bumps, instead they figured out it was better to screw around with tax breaks and such.

[–]jeff303 19 points20 points ago*

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Split into paragraphs since it's worth reading.

I worked for one of the big three auto companies for 30 years. I retired early. What a lot of people don't realize is most of us who were able to retire early, and or made the big bucks every year, worked 60 or more hours a week, and sometimes worked every single day in the year, so we could do that. As in we actually working 365 days a year.

Most of the people (not all)through the years who have claimed I made more money then they did, and was therefor over paid, would die before they would do what I did to make that money, actually some had the chance and turned it down. Now after 30 years of doing what I was told I had to do to earn my retirement, it looks like it will be taken from me. Some of you might feel we don't deserve our retirement anyway. That would be like you getting a very good deal for a house, paying for the house for 30 years, having it completely paid for, then someone saying, well you had it too well for those 30 years, we are taking your house away. I didn't make the decisions that were made to make big cars. Matter a fact GM didn't really even make that decision, our customers did. On the one hand they would say, we want smaller cars, then they would buy the big ones.

Another rant I have is that although many of you are very hard workers, the people who seemed to complain about factory workers the most spend much of their days in offices talking about golf, their stocks, and how lazy the people are that work making what ever there company sells. Then they call it networking, and good for the company. I have seen this first hand. If you went to four or more years of college, and forgot to make sure before hand if they pay enough to pay off your loans, or if there were actually jobs in your field, that is something you could have avoided. Don't blame the autoworker who made most of our decisions thirty years ago, and so are kind of locked in to them.

Also two last things, Japanese and German autoworkers make as much or more then I did, when you take in to account the differences in how health care and other social issues are addressed. Other countries though did not fair as well. Finally, the jobsbank were some people got paid for doing nothing, most people actually would rather work, and the union never meant it to actually turn out that way. The plan was that GM would use that vast deep well of knowledge they had available, to figure out a way to smooth out the bumps, instead they figured out it was better to screw around with tax breaks and such.

[–]satx 8 points9 points ago

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Be mad at your corporate leadership not at John Q Taxpayer.

As an aside, I don't know how you tolerated working that much. I would rather work a few extra years at 40 hours a week than be on call 7 days a week to be my company's bitch. To each his own I guess.

[–]wabberjockey 5 points6 points ago

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Much of what you say is true enough, but...

Now after 30 years of doing what I was told I had to do to earn my retirement, it looks like it will be taken from me.

No, it is likely to be reduced if it is large, and dragged out of the wallets of the taxpayers (via the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp). This is the result of the live-for-the-moment approach of the GM-UAW combine. You might not be able to afford trips in a customized bus to Yellowstone; might have to get by on the smaller pension and social security. (Still much better than a tanked 401k and social security.)

...make big cars. Matter a fact GM didn't really even make that decision, our customers did. On the one hand they would say, we want smaller cars, then they would buy the big ones.

Full fluff. The market was the same for all the competitors. The big 3 just ignored everything but the high-margined big vehicles, as if there was no tomorrow. Well, it's tomorrow.

[–]naughtymonkey69 2 points3 points ago

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I feel like you deserve your retirement, especially after hearing all the hours you put into working. The main reason I'm against a bailout still is because of the question why should I pay for a "loan/bailout" of a company that I never bought from or did business with?

[–]dangerz 4 points5 points ago

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I dunno.. my Corvette, bang for buck, is the most fun car I have ever owned. People can talk as much trash as they want about domestic cars, but go ahead and try and repair a foreign high end automobile and then we'll talk.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points ago

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Actually, I haven't had to repair my foreign high end automobile. It's called reliability.

[–]in_vitro 7 points8 points ago

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[–]UnwashedMeme 5 points6 points ago

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At my budget level they ain't.

[–]remccain 2 points3 points ago

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get a new budget?

I'm taking a cue from Washington and racking everything up on credit cards, which I'll hand over to my grandkids to pay off.

[–]dangerz 1 point2 points ago

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..and my vette hasn't had any repairs required. What happens when you have to change your brake pads though? Clutch starting to wear out? Basic maintenance on any foreign car, low end or high end, is always a lot more expensive than a domestic.

[–]kcb2 3 points4 points ago*

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Repairs don't have to be from a lack of reliability. Brakes (and other components) wear out from normal use. And sometimes you need to repair damage caused by an accident. Parts for foreign cars are usually more expensive and take longer to order.

[–]jeff303 1 point2 points ago

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This just in: obtaining an item from a faraway location takes longer than from a close proximity.

[–]yoda133113 1 point2 points ago

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That doesn't change the fact that it's more of an inconvenience. It's one you know going in, but it's still a difference that is in favor of domestic.

[–]one2gamble 3 points4 points ago

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you must not own a Audi/VW/Benz

[–]kickstand 4 points5 points ago

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Yeah, let's all buy Corvettes.

[–]christopheles 1 point2 points ago

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I smell a sub prime sequel!

[–]drdewm 2 points3 points ago

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Corvettes rock. Those are one of the few American cars I'd buy if it weren't so expensive.

[–]dangerz 2 points3 points ago

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Look used. I did and I got a great price and really low miles.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Corvette is an outlier to this. GM sells very, very few Corvettes. Sure, it's a fun car, and NO ONE would deny that the Corvette and Z06 are amazing deals in comparison to most high-end competitors.

But it's completely beside the point because automobiles are a game of numbers, and GM's real cars, like the Aveo, Cobalt and Impala fucking blow.

[–]dangerz 2 points3 points ago

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The other cars I'd owned before were a Cavalier, Camaro and Celebrity. I never had any issues with those cars either because I regularly maintained them.

My little brother got an older Mazda and it's had constant issues. On the flip side, a friend got a new BMW that's built solid. The problem is when he needs to do regular maintenance. That's when the real cost shows.

There's that old saying .. most anyone can afford a Ferrarri. It's the maintenance costs that they can't handle.

[–]bCabulon 0 points1 point ago

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Try working on a low end foreign car. My brother's jetta is a pain in the ass.

[–]fergie 4 points5 points ago*

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Dear Yanks

thanks for taking care of that for us.

Love,

The Rest Of The World

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points ago

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Dear The Rest of the World

We'll take payment for this in oil, natural resources, cheap labor, and military loyalty.

Love, America

[–]sunshine-x 7 points8 points ago

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...all the while wondering why everyone hates us so much.

[–]ctiberius 2 points3 points ago

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Despite the comments that US cars universally suck, I have to say the Impala LTZ, the new Sable and Taurus and the Lincoln MKX are all pretty sweet rides as rentals. What I can't figure out is why anyone actually LIKES the Camry. http://www.automoblog.net/2008/07/29/2009-toyota-camry-le/

[–]notirk 2 points3 points ago

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People who like the Camry are just looking for reliability and the ability to get from A to B. They aren't the kind of people who are inspired by a car, they don't care if something is fun or involving to drive.

[–]Jey_Lux 1 point2 points ago

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yes because for 30k you shouldn't LIKE what you're buying.

[–]CD7 0 points1 point ago

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You should like that it does what it needs to!

[–]Jey_Lux 0 points1 point ago*

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what's that?

Hauls 4 motorcycles, a family of 4, and our supplies for 6 months?

Travels to and from work daily, with out any maintenance, effort, or care, and never breaks down?

Changes it's own oil?

Gets 60million mpg.?

some of these are realistic requirements. others aren't. I think a conspiracy is stopping me from getting them.

[–]CD7 0 points1 point ago

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I see what you did there.

[–]hamma475 0 points1 point ago

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ha

[–]OXMWEPW 0 points1 point ago*

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Let's hope it is just 25 billion. Remember the Iraq War? It was supposed to be self-financing. My bet is that it will end cost us something closer to 500 billion than just a wimpy 25 billion.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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The banking industry and liberal lending are more to blame. When a credit crisis hits a new automobile is hard to purchase. Honda and Toyota are having similar problems.

[–]pricklypete 0 points1 point ago

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Crazy People. A fine cinematic achievement.

[–]p3ngwin 1 point2 points ago

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buy this car and it'll get you handjobs from beautiful women!

[–]pricklypete 1 point2 points ago

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Sony : Bony

[–]hs4x 0 points1 point ago

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The real shame is that Americans arent informed enough to know that American cars aren't "shitty".

Read Edmunds.

[–]JesusHusseinChrist 0 points1 point ago

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I'm gonna boycott.

[–]MainlandX 0 points1 point ago

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Only noobs would left-justify that paragraph.

[–]vajav 0 points1 point ago*

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that's funny because it's true lol

:o│

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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it's not that people don't buy their cars. it's that they so badly manage their company, they lose an average of 2500 dollars for every car they make.

[–]parshul 0 points1 point ago

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why learn to better cars when you don't have to?

[–]joe_ally 0 points1 point ago

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Rofl. I do agree I wouldn't buy any shitty US car (apart from the fords designed for europe) European cars are so much better. But then i am from the UK so I would think that.

[–]heathenish 0 points1 point ago

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For the record, original is from buffalobeast.com, and they've got a PDF.

[–]spamdefender -3 points-2 points ago

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You won't buy our shitty cars, so when we got out of business we will take over 3 million workers with us, thus pushing the country from a recession to a depression. But, hey, bailing out the big three is a poor investment, right?

(Even though the "bailout" is actually just a loan. You don't say you got bailed out by a bank when you get a home loan do you?)

[–]Tinidril 6 points7 points ago

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You are assuming that companies that get themselves in a position to need a massive loan from the government will somehow be able to turn around and repay the loan. Sounds like a bit of a stretch to me.

[–]generalk 6 points7 points ago

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It's not my fault that the Big Three haven't made a car I want to drive.

And no, I don't say bailed out. That's because if I go to a bank they review my credit and approve or deny my loan based on that. Have you seen the Big Three execs in Washington? They can't provide a single damn reason why they deserve the money or how they're going to pay it back. If I walked into a bank and demanded a loan on those terms they'd sic security on me.

[–]segfaultxr7 4 points5 points ago*

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You don't say you got bailed out by a bank when you get a home loan do you?

The Big Three aren't going to a bank, because no banks are confident that they'll ever be able to repay the loans. This is also why Chrysler is asking for funds despite being owned by a company that could easily afford to issue them a loan (if they wanted to throw their money away, that is).

So instead, they're going to the government and instructing the representatives to fund the loan by forcibly confiscating money from taxpayers, since nobody will voluntarily assume the risk. THAT is what's rubbing a lot of people the wrong way; simply asking for a loan is not the issue here.

[–]yoda133113 4 points5 points ago

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The auto market isn't going away if the big three shut down, someone will take their place, and those someones will need workers. They are also likely going to build their cars in America, because there will be pre-made factories and pre-trained workers near those factories to work there, plus they are close to the location of the buyers, with an infrastructure to distribute the cars. Do you honestly think if 3 of the largest suppliers of a necessary commodity all fail that nothing is going to pick up the slack? You will be buying something other than a Ford, but all the jobs won't go away.

[–]parsifal 0 points1 point ago

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This picture almost says it all. It's fantastic.

The auto companies are taking advantage of the complete ineptitude of the financial sector by way of stealing their "too big to fail" mantra.

Well, if we as the American people (begrudgingly) agree with that premise, then the only solution is to not let companies grow that large.

The goal of free market competition shouldn't be that someone "wins"; it should be that for a given product, there's lots of competition, so that we don't find ourselves in the position of supporting de facto government corporations like this.