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top 200 commentsshow all 474

[–]Koddier 57 points58 points ago

How about doing a similar board for USA vs. Iraq?

[–]ninety6days 41 points42 points ago

How about a similar board for USA vs the rest of the world since 1939?

[–]bumfromthefuture 17 points18 points ago

I´ll just settle for a similar board for USA vs Latin America since 1960´s

[–]ninety6days 11 points12 points ago

And spoil SE Asia's fun?

[–]tonypotenza 7 points8 points ago

Can we settle for middle east since the 80's ?

[–]McRigger 3 points4 points ago

Yikes, we need a big board for that one.

[–]ActuallyNot 0 points1 point ago

The USA was the good guy in the Suez crisis of 1956-1957.

They gave the moral high ground away after that. Well operation Ajax was 1953, so before that too, but I think that Britain led them astray that time.

[–]egr4wig 192 points193 points ago

This is sad, it's not a game. It is a genocidal war being waged by a people who should know better than anyone else the perils of hate being exacted on a people.

[–]MurpH_H 83 points84 points ago

It's more like a violent apartheid than just a war

[–]sprucenoose 10 points11 points ago

I think egr4wig's terming it "genocide" is actually more appropriate that apartheid.

That said, the preamble of Hamas' charter states "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

Both sides are at each others' throats, and I think would glad see the other wiped off the map.

[–]xtfftc 2 points3 points ago

Hamas =/= Palestine.

And it seems to me that Israel's government =/= Israel... But that might be wishful thinking.

[–]sprucenoose 2 points3 points ago

But that might be wishful thinking.

On both counts. Both are democratic, to some degree, with a heavy dose of religion. Furthermore, both demographics have largely been born into conflict. Without any other qualifier, their fate is such a tragedy.

[–]OMGaneshOM 13 points14 points ago

There are definitely no winners in this game.

Kind of reminds me of this speech by Haruki Murakami in 2009: http://www.haaretz.com/culture/arts-leisure/always-on-the-side-of-the-egg-1.270371

Still one of the most beautifully succinct and yet emphatic ways to say how I feel, but i could never express it the way he does.

[–]supterfuge 10 points11 points ago

The Hamas and Israel's government are winning 'cause the Hamas got new recruits and Israel can act like a victim and expand it territory. Palestinian and Israelian civils are losing.

[–]nemof 0 points1 point ago

Thanks for that article, really beautifully put.

[–]ARMAcre1 7 points8 points ago

[–]z3dster 4 points5 points ago

source? are you including deaths in the Lebanese civil war?

[–]disco_biscuit 36 points37 points ago

Not defending their policy here... but I can imagine they see themselves as being surrounded by hostile regimes. Could you imagine living in a country smaller than the state of New Jersey, surrounded by hostile nations, all of which are Islamic nations with a significant percentage of their population that hates you -- and most of whom have fought you in at least one war (some, several) within recent history? Again, I'm not defending Israel... but I have to admit what a breeding ground this whole situation is for both sides to act as they have.

[–]SebCS 36 points37 points ago

It is a complicated issue, but Israel definitely does not respond with the intent of creating peace. It constantly extends its boundaries into Palestine and takes drastic defensive strikes that hurt civilians more than the children. There is no need to do this. By doing this they just further anger not just the people of Palestine or the Middle Eastern region, but the whole world. They flaunt their power knowing that nobody can speak out, and try to relate the holocaust to their aggressive bombings as a means of defense. I find it embarrassing that the horrific death of so many Jews could be used to excuse these acts of terror.

[–]SirSofaspud 9 points10 points ago

Even if a peace was created you would still have extremists bombing Israel. The only reason the Israeli numbers aren't higher is because their preventative measures are so extreme. That of course doesn't justify the innocent casualties but its awfully hard to tell who is going to attack you with extremists.

[–]SebCS 8 points9 points ago

How does that excuse them illegally taking over Palestinian territory?

[–]SirSofaspud 7 points8 points ago

It does not and I did not excuse them in anyway for illegal action. I do not think either party be it Palestine or Israel is in the right completely. The Palestinians continue to attack Israel and Israel defends itself by leading strikes against the terrorist groups that attack it. Israeli deaths vs Palestinian deaths

The OP's screen name shouldn't be boycott Israel, it should be boycott Israel and Palestine.

[–]savethebr3ad 4 points5 points ago

It's Hamas that should be boycotted, not Palestine. Hamas is and will be the main reason why the Palestinian civilians are suffering right now.

[–]Hootbot 4 points5 points ago

So if Palestine fires rockets it's an attack on Israel, but if Israel attacks Palestine it's defence?

[–]silentwindofdoom77 11 points12 points ago

You won't see the IDF blindly firing missiles at the Gaza strip hoping to hit somthing like Hamas is. So yes, that is exactly how it is.

[–]muuh-gnu 0 points1 point ago

You won't see the IDF blindly firing missiles at the Gaza strip

You likely also wouldnt see Palestinians blindly fire rockets at Israel if they had rockets with guidance systems like Israel has. If they had the same equipment as Israel has, they also could perform "surgical strikes". But they dont.

Israel stops them from getting precise equipment so that they can later bemoan that their hits are too imprecise.

[–]iveeatendogshit 5 points6 points ago

This is a very tough claim. Just take a look at history and past wars and you will find that Israel has very little issue defending itself from Arab states even if they unite (Today there is even less of a chance they will considering strained relations and internal issues). They defeated the entire region in 6 days in 1967 and have only gotten militarily stronger since then, excluding the fact that the US would support them militarily instantaneously. Also the chances are much higher that Israel could live in a more peaceful Middle East by allowing Palestinian self-determination than not doing so.

[–]disco_biscuit 4 points5 points ago

True... but aren't their victories that much more obvious as we look back through history? Hindsight is 20/20. Did they feel certain of victory at the time?

[–]AndDuffy 3 points4 points ago

They might as well be the state of New Jersey with all the support they get from the US and the UN. Israel is not some innocent, tiny country surrounded by antisemetic crazies; they're an aggressor, an occupier, a puppet of the rest of the world against Palestine. Both sides deserve some blame, but most of it belongs to Israel.

[–]zakyman5 3 points4 points ago

Did you just say support from the UN? Ohhhhhhhhh lord...

[–]clearlyreading -1 points0 points ago

do you know why they're hated? Not for religious reasons, but geo-politcal ones. The fact that they're of different religions just sets the divide even further and creates a reason for leaders to bash other nations..when the people barely give a shit.

[–]raouldukeesq 1 point2 points ago

Often, the abused grow up to be abusers.

[–]red321red321 55 points56 points ago

Anyone who criticizes Israel knows there is a chance that Israel will play the anti-semite card so no one does and their behavior doesn't change.

[–]mvonballmo 37 points38 points ago

It's not accurate to say that "no one [criticizes Israel]", even in the U.S.

It is true that the almost all broadcast media sides overwhelmingly with Israel, abdicating any responsibility to examine either the facts of the current conflict or either the historical context or the actual situation (settlements, poverty, outdoor jail, etc.).

A good example of this is the recent clip being bandied about of Bill Maher's show. Real Time is supposedly Libertarian and provides a forum for supposed liberals more often than not. This is the state of the left in the U.S. today. Appalling.

The degree to which an otherwise useful David Frum and the execrable David Axelrod and the obnoxious Maher kowtow to the accepted story of the conflict is horrifying. Moore is incoherent and wildly accusing, but at least he's not buying the Israeli side wholesale.

There are other notables who report the conflict much more accurately and fairly (Gleen Greenwald, Noam Chomsky, etc.) but they get hardly any exposure at all. You have to go looking for them, but they're there. And, while the U.S. doesn't care about them, the rest of the world does (to varying degrees).

I haven't been following the current exchanges, but if history is any guide whatsoever, the degree to which Gaza is threatening Israel is being hugely exaggerated. Maybe this time, that's no the case, I don't know. The context, though, as depicted in the OP, is accurate and provides appropriate context (something that Moore clumsily tried to express).

[–]red321red321 21 points22 points ago

I agree with you and you put it well. The MSM won't dare to criticize or press Israel on their behavior but those who dare to do it like Greenwald and Chomsky don't get airtime and I've had to seek out their views outside of the television.

[–]mvonballmo 17 points18 points ago

To their credit, Al Jazeera included Glenn Greenwald in their round table on Election Day a couple of weeks ago. That was refreshing. Maybe Al Jazeera offers an alternative even in the States (I'm outside).

[–]apenaviary 10 points11 points ago

AJE is great but do you actually expect it to reach a large portion of the US population. The only US media that gives much airtime to people like Chomsky, Greenwald and Hedges is Democracy Now. US media is insular whether it be the networks, CNN, Fox, NPR or what have you.

[–]mOdQuArK 2 points3 points ago

AJE is required browsing if you want to see how differently the Western media portrays Middle East stories.

[–]awwwcat 1 point2 points ago

Or they get fired (Norman Finkelstein)

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]mrhuggables 10 points11 points ago

bill maher also believes vaccines cause autism

[–]Sieziggy 11 points12 points ago

Yup, lost all respect for him when I found out about that. It's amazing how someone so smugly sure of himself can maintain such a wildly unscientific stance on the subject. He's very similar to the people he talked down to religulous.

[–]rockincooldude 7 points8 points ago

I'm pretty fuckin' liberal in a lot of ways, and I have HBOgo so I've recently started watching his show every couple weeks, but I almost turn off every episode because he's really really not interested in true discussion and he's often not very fair. I don''t mean fair in the "there's always two equal sides to a debate" kind of way, be he's often not fair in the "that insult wasn't even relevant" kind of way.

[–]superwinner 1 point2 points ago

If he still believes that, I sure haven't heard him mention it too much lately.

[–]pissedcunt 13 points14 points ago

The irony is that the Arabs are likely to be more semitic than those who's family immigrated to Palestine.

[–]GoodGrades 11 points12 points ago

Yes, Arabs are technically Semites. But anti-Semitism is collectively known as "hatred against Jews," just as the term African-American is collectively known as "black people" rather than American immigrants from Africa. So this is a really overly semantic argument.

[–]Mymicz1 2 points3 points ago

The anti defamation league serves Muslims as well.

[–]GoodGrades 0 points1 point ago

The ADL stands up against all forms of bigotry. It also strongly condemned Prop 8 in California, for example. What's your point?

[–]Mymicz1 0 points1 point ago

Im sorry let me clarify the ADL recognizes anti semitism as exclusive of religion.

[–]GoodGrades 0 points1 point ago

They recognize bigotry. Anti-Semitism is specifically defined as hatred against Jews, however.

From Wikipedia:

"Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is suspicion of, hatred toward, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. Social scientists consider it a form of racism. In a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is defined as "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." A person who holds such views is called an "antisemite"."

[–]demian64 0 points1 point ago

Palestinians are actually more genetically similar to Jews than Arabs. Essentially they are Muslim Hebrews, so to speak.

[–]noseeme 0 points1 point ago

Semitic semantics.

[–]mamjjasond 5 points6 points ago

I seriously doubt political correctness is the determining factor at play here. It's more about global power struggles, oil, money, military dominance, etc.

[–]Carbon-Based 0 points1 point ago

I think you missed the point. By placing this information in an infographic, it will shock and alarm people who might otherwise ignore a more sympathetic but less visually stimulating approach to the same information.

[–]TJM21M 11 points12 points ago

I'm a little hazy, did the assassination of Ahmed Jabari break the ceasefire or not?

[–]sweetcommunist 4 points5 points ago

Yep.

[–]Nusent 29 points30 points ago

Not supporting Israel but where is the logic in this if they continue to attack Israel, the casualties will just continue to rise for the Palestinian people ...

[–]onepath 20 points21 points ago

Israel is still expanding into Palestine. The Palestinians feel threatened that Israel will continue to expand into Palestinian territory through settlements. Thus, to protect their land, the Palestinians want to fight back for their homes, their land, their farms, etc. and will continue to be blamed as the provocateurs by major media sources. It's not attacking the Israelis that's the problem, it's Israel bullying the Palestinians out of their homes. They have every right to fight (although I don't agree with some of their methods and organizations).

[–]peasnbeans 5 points6 points ago

That's not exactly correct. There are different Palestinian factions, and not all of them want to go with violence. Of course, the biggest contrast is between Hamas and PA.

[–]chrisjd 0 points1 point ago

Unfortunately the factions that want violence seem to be more effective, non-violent resistance doesn't work when Israel doesn't care what the UN says, and the rest of the world('s governments) continues to support them unconditionally.

[–]silentwindofdoom77 3 points4 points ago

They're labeled as provocateurs because they're the ones going out of their way to attack civilians. Evicting people from their homes prior to bulldozing them is in comparison not nearly as heinous thus not as interesting to the news.

[–]onepath 0 points1 point ago

or pleasing to major US officials :)

[–]Its_a_sue-ance 0 points1 point ago

Israel seized the West Bank after being attacked, as their army advanced. Then they gave it all back.

[–]TunaSammich 1 point2 points ago

We must protect our land! Quickly, fire rockets at the civilians!

[–]Nusent 0 points1 point ago

Yes ... But the logical fallacy still stands. I mean, If I were Palestine, I would not fuck with Israel because of their superior military arsenal...

[–]onepath 1 point2 points ago

eh... idk i don't think they have much choice. fight for land or don't fight and get resources taken away regardless.

[–]Frankeh 100 points101 points ago

Well that seems like an entirely unbiased source of information.

[–]LaszloK 14 points15 points ago

[–]revolution_nein 27 points28 points ago

Are you disputing the numbers?

[–]Cryonaka 68 points69 points ago

Without showing a source this isn't worth anything.

[–]Cryonaka 15 points16 points ago

Thank you.

[–]growinglotus 10 points11 points ago

The one that I'm not sure is accurate is the 0 Palestinian violations of UN resolutions.

[–]Its_a_sue-ance 3 points4 points ago

They are all inaccurate for various reasons, but here is why this one is inaccurate:

Palestine is not officially recognized as a state by the UN, so the UN cannot ass resolutions concerning Palestine The anti-Israel countries form committees that do nothing but pass anti-Israel resolutions. These resolutions account for 50% of all resolutions passed by the UN Human Rights Council.

[–]revolution_nein 6 points7 points ago

Please enlighten us.

[–]under9k 11 points12 points ago

The UN has issued multiple ceasefire resolutions (and other resolutions i'm not intimately familiar with) that have been routinely ignored by Hamas and Israel.

[–]growinglotus 7 points8 points ago

I'm pretty sure there are UN resolutions against aggressive attacks and a long term continued rocket assault would probably qualify.

[–]mvonballmo 7 points8 points ago

Yeah, those numbers should be hyperlinked. This is useless.

[–]thefifthdimension 23 points24 points ago

He probably is not disputing the numbers, but all statistics need context, and when you look at the fact Hamas places its militant operations next to schools and hospitals and uses civilians as human shields, the issue becomes a little more grey and little less black and white as the picture portrays it.

[–]Cubical 23 points24 points ago

Gaza is a ghetto, there are civilians everywhere.

[–]thefifthdimension 13 points14 points ago

not sure if this is attacking or supporting israel (or just stating a fact), btu yes, most of gaza is just a ghetto so how can a country defend itself against terrorists without harming any civilians in the process?

[–]mvonballmo 15 points16 points ago

Good question. Acting in a way that has, historically, created even more terrorists is definitely counterproductive, though. That is, if the goal is to stop terrorism. The expressed goal appears to be to send the Gazans back to the Middle Ages. Shouldn't be too hard; they don't have far to go.

[–]thefifthdimension 0 points1 point ago

Its an extremely tough position when you have need to defend yourself immediately, wherein doing so will create more terrorists in the long run. That is why it is so hard to fight an ideology of hatred that terrorists spread.

[–]LaszloK 4 points5 points ago

Possibly, but in a tiny strip of land that is the densely populated area on earth it would be pretty hard not to set up in a civilian area.

[–]BOLDTHUMB 3 points4 points ago

[–]Cubical 10 points11 points ago

Bet you each one of those children has lost a relative.

[–]BOLDTHUMB 1 point2 points ago

Are you justifying the encouragement of this behavior by the children's guardians?

[–]Sieziggy 3 points4 points ago

Explaining the behavior is different than justifying it.

[–]Sithis 4 points5 points ago

This Video needs to be the top comment

[–]BOLDTHUMB 0 points1 point ago

Apparently Reddit does not appreciate your pro-genocidal remark.

[–]SunMoonTruth 0 points1 point ago

When people can feel each others' pain on a human level, then maybe all the posturing and ego will give way to peace.

[–]BOLDTHUMB 3 points4 points ago

I think you have it backwards.

Once the posturing and ego can be put aside, then we will allow ourselves to feel each other's pain.

[–]0003 0 points1 point ago

What was the French guy doing?

[–]zeabu 0 points1 point ago

The comments are priceless.

[–]UpontheEleventhFloor 0 points1 point ago

And posted by someone named "Boycott_IsraeI" - seems like he's a pretty middle-of-the-road kind of guy.

[–]atomizer_ 0 points1 point ago

I was trying to word an eloquent and well thought out post...but then I thought to myself, religion is fucking stupid and people who will kill over the belief that certain land is holy are fucking assholes...regardless of what side they are on.

[–]bumblingmumbling 41 points42 points ago

Team Israel in the USA makes this all possible.

[–]deathtoirony 20 points21 points ago

In all fairness, don't forget Team Hamas in Iran and Syria.

[–]Its_a_sue-ance 6 points7 points ago

And on reddit.

[–]Uncle_Larry 10 points11 points ago

I'm really surprised there isn't more visibility into the campaigns to get rid of this funding. Why is the US funding anything there? I fully support the notion of pulling all troops and funding and letting those backwards fucking idiots battle it out for the next few thousand years. As soon as someone posts a comment for or against one side or the other there is a huge backlash of people saying "How could you say something so insensitive and childish. It's a lot more complicated than that..." then they proceed to delve into why they think differently for the exact same reasons the initial comment was made. In my opinion no amount of outside resources will change this situation which is exactly what history has shown.

[–]llamasauce 23 points24 points ago

Both sides are wrong. Palestine has spent decades rejecting every two-state compromise they've been offered, and Israel makes whatever settlements they want because Palestine was never really a "state."

If it weren't a Jews vs. Muslims thing, this would have been settled and put behind them long ago.

[–]b3nj4m1n 0 points1 point ago

It's not Jews vs Muslims, there are plenty of Palestinian christians being oppressed / attacked

[–]EatingSteak 0 points1 point ago

Since it's a war (or something very close to it), there are going to be lots of people (unfortunately) caught in the crossfire.

Don't obfuscate the issue - this is clearly a religion issue.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]llamasauce 3 points4 points ago

But you're forgetting, it isn't like your New Zealand comparison because Britain tried to form Palestine and Israel at roughly the same time after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The idea of Palestinian statehood isn't really any older that the idea of Israeli statehood. Jews and Muslims had always both lived in the region and the fall of the Ottoman Empire meant both Jews and Palestinians wanted a state in the Holy Land--the only difference is that Jews were immigrating into the Levant in large numbers when Britain promised them Israel.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]llamasauce 2 points3 points ago

I think it's the religion that has prevented the two-state compromise for so long. Palestine was offered more than half the land first and rejected it with violence, then they were offered half the land and rejected it, etc. The Israelis are now so tired of it that they've become oppressive and expansionist and people can't remember anything before hating each other. Whenever these Gaza conflicts flare up, people in Israel start fearing the possibility of a second Holocaust. It's so religiously charged it's ridiculous.

[–]leparty 16 points17 points ago

I wish I knew more about this to understand ... It looks like both are wrong.

[–]om_nom_nom 22 points23 points ago

Both sides are wrong in this situation, but one side is a hell of a lot more fucked up than the other.

[–]fuzzybunn 4 points5 points ago

Both sides are wrong in this situation, but one side is a hell of a lot more fucked up than the other.

I think it's more a case that one side has an overwhelming technological and economic advantage, and that it's plain bullying from the point of view of anyone whose life isn't actually on the line here.

[–]om_nom_nom 0 points1 point ago

No I agree, but although I am completely on the Palestinian side of the issue, I can't say that I support all of Hamas's actions, even though they do have a good reason.

[–]fuzzybunn 1 point2 points ago

I think it's probably pointless at this stage to try to resolve the whole West Bank problem from a moral perspective and to assign fault anymore. Both sides have muddied themselves to the stage where no one can claim to be blameless, from the two main actors to the UN/US/UK.

It's sad to see either side try to take the moral high ground based on how many less people they have killed.

[–]anders_breivik_hh88 8 points9 points ago

Is it the side launching rockets and missiles against civilian targets?

[–]alecgargett 3 points4 points ago

Both are launching rockets and missiles against civilian targets. Israel's army has bigger and more accurate weapons, (paid for by U.S.) so they kill more.

[–]mostlyferal 4 points5 points ago

Since both sides do that, I think it's rather the side that kills a lot more civilians in doing so.

[–]TunaSammich 3 points4 points ago

people just downvote this topic because it's impossible to defend.

[–]chip33550336 2 points3 points ago

I think arguments against Israel usually use proportional response. There is some merit to that.

[–]silentwindofdoom77 1 point2 points ago

Not really. Hamas chooses to fight from civilian areas because they would get straight up massacred if they didn't. It still means civilian deaths caused by an ammo dump blowing up in downtown Gaza are on their heads, regardless of the IDF missile that caused the explosion.

[–]chip33550336 1 point2 points ago

By simply comparing the number of deaths, there are many more Palestine deaths, gives some merit to the argument of disproportionate response by Israel. Whether or not the deaths on either side are justified is more of a philosophical discussion.

[–]Ag-E 0 points1 point ago

I'm not defending it, but I do have to wonder, what is their alternative? They're up against a superior armed and backed force who is constantly encroaching upon land. Pretty much their only hope is to win the psychological war of making Israel look worse so that their allies (and the associated support) might abandon them.

[–]TunaSammich 0 points1 point ago

That sounds like defending it to me.

Attacking civilian targets with no military goal besides "Make my opponent look bad" should never even be considered as an option.

[–]Ag-E 1 point2 points ago

Nope, not defending it. Defending it implies I think it's the right course of action. This is just considering an alternative view point other than my own.

Attacking civilian targets with no military goal besides "Make my opponent look bad" should never even be considered as an option

Well they seem to think it's their only viable one when their opponent keeps encroaching and has very strong supporters. They've gone the 'let's talk' route, and that's never worked due to problems on both sides.

[–]b3nj4m1n 1 point2 points ago

Right because israel isn't destroying hospitals and civilian targets..

[–]krelian 1 point2 points ago

In case you're really interested I would implore you to actually investigate yourself from both sides and to not let the most upvoted reddit posts guide your judgement. If you look at OP's account you can understand that there is a big propaganda campaign going and when it comes to Israel reddit is pretty much the Fox News of Anti-Israel side.

[–]MemoryLapse 30 points31 points ago

I realize this is Reddit, but it becomes complicated when people are shooting rockets at you (and your civilians) from across the border while dressed in civvies. it's the same problem as Afghanistan.

Is it criminal to meet force with overwhelming force, as the United States does? Is it a human rights violation to occupy a territory in order to stop an international attack on your own soil? That's what we call "war". It's not even ideological-it's a military conflict.

The allies didn't stop at the border of Germany in 1945. They stopped when the axis were no longer a threat. Don't mistake offense for aggression.

Edit: I accidentally words ("the border")

[–]jblo 8 points9 points ago

Still waiting for an excuse as to why Israel ignores UN Resolutions and blatantly commits acts of open warfare with NATO Nations such as boarding vessels with arms drawn in international waters.

Oh and they sunk the USS Liberty. Fuck them.

[–]b3nj4m1n 1 point2 points ago

They shot the shit out of it but weren't able to sink it

[–]Randompaul 8 points9 points ago

What side are you talking about? They both shoot rockets at children.

[–]Capt_Underpants 15 points16 points ago

Context?

Does one side shoot random unguided rockets into land occupied by civilians. Does the other one shoot guided missiles into strategic military locations that happen to be near or in the center of a civilian population?

One is war, the other is terrorism. Neither is right.

[–]Its_a_sue-ance 2 points3 points ago

Hamas' military locations are not located near civilan centers by happenstance. They are there intentionally, so that Hamas can update the body count on that bullshit poster.

[–]b3nj4m1n 1 point2 points ago

So why was rt's tv channel office just destroyed by Israeli missiles?

[–]Outofmany 3 points4 points ago

occupy a territory in order to stop an international attack on your own soil?

I thought Israel was motivated to restore it's land that was 'promised' to it from the bible. Either way I've never heard of taking land as a strategy to end violence. It's awfully hard for me to imagine how kicking people literally out of their homes somehow equal peace.

[–]Mymicz1 5 points6 points ago

Reports show 99 Qassam rockets have fallen back on homes in Gaza in the past two days. Wake up people.

[–]summitrock 15 points16 points ago

Oh posted by user "boycott_israel". He's not biased.

[–]Kytro 2 points3 points ago

Being biased doesn't make you wrong

[–]EatingSteak -1 points0 points ago

So because he's biased, does that mean the numbers are all false?

**hint - rhetorical question

[–]Liesmith 36 points37 points ago

Missing "rockets launched, schools/hospitals used as missile bases, resolutions for the destruction of the neighbor based on race"

[–]mostlyferal 8 points9 points ago

rockets launched

I don't think you want that one added.

[–]b3nj4m1n 1 point2 points ago

Except UN investigators found no evidence of hospitals being used as missile bases http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-officials-use-fake-graphic-justify-bombing-gaza-hospitals

[–]Maagiline 13 points14 points ago

someone should make a website like this

[–]Its_a_sue-ance 2 points3 points ago

Just wondering, are you a Hamas propagandist?

[–]evil-doer 5 points6 points ago

facts and the truth are israels biggest enemy

[–]supterfuge 3 points4 points ago

That must be the reason Republicans support Israel so much.

[–]Juris_LV 28 points29 points ago

democrat support is the same...

[–]riconoir28 3 points4 points ago

The very best way i can think of for Israel to bring on long lasting peace is by giving back the stolen territories- back to 1967 map. They will win by building schools and hospitals...not by killing children.

[–]JewhammadAli 1 point2 points ago

Check out this website: http://visualizingpalestine.org

Info-graphics about this topic.

[–]Datdus 10 points11 points ago

Everyone who tries to say something for israel's case is downvoted to oblivion. Really people?

[–]CommunistPenguin 0 points1 point ago

Freedom will come to the Palestnians and to the population of Israel.

[–]Val_Hallen 2 points3 points ago

Like it says in the Bible, the team that spills the most blood for the Holy Land wins a trip to Tahiti.

[–]chocoboi 5 points6 points ago

Hmmmm..UCSD Library Walk? I remember this. They setup a "check point" in the middle of campus...

[–]GirlOnInternet 1 point2 points ago

I thought it was UC Davis, the SJP group the does an apartheid wall on the quad every year.

[–]bpcoxkr 1 point2 points ago

Yeah, it was UCSD. I saw them out there last week with this sign.

[–]corbin1337 0 points1 point ago

Tritons represent. I for one love that they do this. Last year there was a pro-israel counter-rally thing with loudspeakers and a huge crowd yelling, and it frankly looked terrifying compared to the silent, sign holding pro-palestinian group.

[–]skymeson 11 points12 points ago

Am I wrong to think that Israel should have the right to retaliate when Hamas attacks?

[–]TahsinTekin 19 points20 points ago

http://i.imgur.com/8MOai.jpg

Also, writing strongly worded letters hasn't helped them for the past 64 years. They have no other choice if Israel keeps committing the genocide. If talks won't help, violence will be the second option.

[–]skymeson 6 points7 points ago

My understanding is that Israel is no longer occupying Gaza. They pulled out in 2005 and dismantled their settlements. If you are referring to "occupying" in a broader sense then perhaps we should be blaming the UN for creating Israel. It seems like Israel has offered a two state solution but this is being rejected by Hamas who refuses to recognize Israel.

[–]kerat 5 points6 points ago

Gaza isn't a country. Gaza is part of the nation of Palestine, which Israel has been illegally occupying for over 60 years according to every nation on earth, even the US. So Israel getting out of Gaza doesn't mean anything at all.

The nation of Palestine isn't some abstract concept. It refers to UN resolutions 181 and 242 that defined the borders for these two states. Israel refuses to go to the '48 borders or the '67 borders established by the UN because that would mean giving up lots of land to the Palestinians.

So yes, Chomsky is right, Israel cannot refer to itself as a defender, when it's in fact illegally occupying the state that Gaza is supposed to belong to. It's astounding that people still don't understand this simple fact.

Nowhere on earth is the victim of an occupation told to stop resisting before the occupier is told to leave. No one told the French to stop resisting when the Nazis invaded, and no one told the Poles either. But for some reason everyone thinks Palestinians should stop resisting for Israel to get the fuck out.

[–]prudiisten 5 points6 points ago

the nation of Palestine

[–]skymeson 3 points4 points ago

Do you really think that Israel going back to pre-1967 boarders will stop the violence? It doesn't end there. Hamas has said so. They won't be happy until Israel is abolished. Besides, I think of West Bank and Gaza as two separate territories. They may both be part of Palestine but they are run by completely different organizations that often can't even agree on a single policy.

[–]skymeson 1 point2 points ago

So Israel getting out of Gaza doesn't mean anything at all.

Why do you say this? It seems very relevant to the point. Israel has been out of Gaza since 2005 and yet Hamas is still hell bent on the destruction of Israel. What else should Israel do to appease the violence?

[–]kerat 3 points4 points ago

If China invaded the US and after a long period of occupation, left Ohio but remained in all of the east coast, would it be logical to ask Americans to stop fighting back?

Of course not.

[–]krelian 5 points6 points ago

They have no other choice if Israel keeps committing the genocide

Can you provide anything to back that statement?

[–]TheMortalOne 12 points13 points ago

Israel has left Gaza and emptied the settlements in 2005. In response they elected Hamas and started launching rockets (which in turn caused the blockade to limit incoming weaponry).

Israel is in the wrong on its settlement policies in the west bank. However, in Gaza Israel has done everything that can be reasonable expected from it.

EDIT: also I somehow forgot to point out

Israel keeps committing the genocide

Do you even know when a genocide is?

[–]noseeme 0 points1 point ago

Talks will help. The problem is neither side has any interest in talks or peace. This is a religion and hate fueled pissing contest from both sides.

[–]Outofmany 1 point2 points ago

Do Hamas have the right to retaliate when Israel attack?

[–]silentwindofdoom77 3 points4 points ago

Sure, they can target all the IDF soldiers and installations they want. If you mean "retaliate" in the sense of "launch a oversized bottle rocket and hope it takes out an Israeli family." Then no.

[–]jimmypark 4 points5 points ago

They take more and more land, occupying more and more of the country of Palestine. Palestinians live in a prison - regardless of innocence. They are not allowed to leave without permission - a modern military occupation is constantly threatening them with bombs, tanks and jets. I would question whether the term retaliation is appropriate.

[–]shodanx 2 points3 points ago

Yes and it is also wrong of the people who attacked in the first place, this is a two wrobg don't make a right type situation

No one is coming out of this unscathed, that's war

[–]HEADLINE-IN-5-YEARS 1 point2 points ago

TEAM ISRAEL WINS IN CONTROVERSIAL DECISION - U.S. REFEREE ACCUSED OF BIAS

[–]MagCynicThe2nd 3 points4 points ago

I wonder how many so-called Palestinians would still be living if Hamas and other pro-Palestinian groups would stop launching attacks from civilian areas.

[–]CommunistPenguin 1 point2 points ago

They are defending themselves from the Israeli government.

[–]direwolfpacker 3 points4 points ago

no they're not. they're poking the bear for street cred in the arab world. the Israelis don't care how many Palestinians they kill and neither does Hamas.

[–]tehhunter 3 points4 points ago

ITT: a bunch of college freshman agreeing with themselves that Hamas / militant islam isn't all that bad

[–]Chrononautics 0 points1 point ago

Saying one is terrible doesn't mean the other is great. Also, even militant followers of Islam had to get to the point they're at from somewhere.

[–]greenythebeast 1 point2 points ago

Since when is war supposed to be fair...?

[–]CommunistPenguin 1 point2 points ago

Free Palestine!

[–]Gfaqshoohaman 0 points1 point ago

Keep this oversimplified shit on /r/pics.

EDIT: Glad to see /r/worldpolitics thinks the Israeli/Palestine conflict can be wrapped up like a score card to a sports game.

EDIT2: Gods. I've gone from -15 to +4 and back. What is happening here?

[–]Shayne-x 0 points1 point ago

Saying that Palestinians want peace is pure folly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzlFPm7bymY

[–]b3nj4m1n 0 points1 point ago

There are no rockets coming from the west Bank, how's that working out for them?

[–]WenieWaggler 1 point2 points ago

Ya go Reddit! Fuck Israel! Let's post blatant propaganda and act like its the truth because that is what the hive mind craves! What a fucking load of shit. Anyone stop to think why Israel is retaliating? Maybe because they are tired of being bombed every damn day. It's their fault they have better tech and actually hit the targets they aim for? Hamas aims for civilians on purpose. But I know that isn't what most dumbfuck redditors want to be spoon fed, so go ahead and bring on the downvotes so you can feel like you are making a difference.

[–]Outofmany 6 points7 points ago

I am just checking - didn't Israel start this particular wave of violence?

[–]WenieWaggler 3 points4 points ago

If by start you mean constantly put up with unguided rocket attacks before retaliating then yes. This is not the first time they have geared up to take back the strip. They will whoop ass and take it back and in 2-3 years they will give it back. Then Hamas (or some other rebranded terror group) will begin more random rocket attacks and Israel will rinse/repeat. This has LITERALLY happened before, on more than one occasion. Everyone wants to act like this is a big new development and it isn't.

[–]Its_a_sue-ance -1 points0 points ago

This person is right.

[–]Miznat 0 points1 point ago

Looks like Israel's winning...

[–]Capt_Underpants 2 points3 points ago

welcome to war.

[–]caliswagatku -1 points0 points ago

Just put everything into perspective, we need to pay more attention on the shit thats happening in African countries

[–]ShockedSystem 1 point2 points ago

So we're judging who is right by how many civilians they've killed? If Palestine had access to the same equipment that Israel did, they would kill just as many innocents. Let's not give the moral high ground just because they are the military underdog.

[–]wazzel2u 0 points1 point ago

The logic and support for Israel reminds me of a childhood argument with the aggressor claiming that "It all started when he hit me back!"

The illegal formation of Israel and ongoing occupation within the territories of The Palestine was the first act of aggression and the beginning of all of this.

[–]derekz00 0 points1 point ago

Who is the one guy being held captive as a prisoner?

[–]roniarts 0 points1 point ago

It's amazing how you eat what the media feeds you... If you think that is the truth, you are so narrow minded. You should really do your homework before doing stuff like that, or before accepting that.