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top 200 commentsshow all 227

[–]rcxpress 153 points154 points ago

as a Mormon drinking coffee, you're in trouble.

[–]kmck96[S] 75 points76 points ago

are we overlooking the fact that i'm at the bottom of the ocean?

[–]lethargicwalrus 51 points52 points ago

Wait, swimming is also against the rules?

[–]kmck96[S] 140 points141 points ago

i'm mormon. it's all against the rules.

[–]lethargicwalrus 23 points24 points ago

Especially reddit.

[–]tesla3327 7 points8 points ago

Well at least there is bubbling

[–]Gockel 12 points13 points ago

[–]phidelta355 5 points6 points ago

Nope, too much hair. Pull that shit back into a hideous bun, then maybe.

[–]2infinitum 1 point2 points ago

Ahhh, the REAL reason Romney didn't do an AMA!

[–]raging_asshole 10 points11 points ago

Except having a sense of humor, apparently.

My experience is that many Mormons do, especially when it comes to Mormonism.

[–]jcannon98188 5 points6 points ago

If we didn't have a sense of humor we would just get pissed off when people ask me how many wives we have. My personal response is always "Well, I'm young so I'm only up to 3. My dad has 12 though, so I hope to have more then that eventually"

[–]philistic53 1 point2 points ago

Most religions are pretty ridiculous, but this one seems to have a few more facets than most.

[–]nreshackleford 5 points6 points ago

Did you convert or were you born into LDS? Do you know somebody who converted as an adult who would be willing to do an AMA? I have so many questions. I think adult conversion to a religion is a fascinating subject. I went from Baptist (born in), to Atheist, to Agnostic, to Anglican. Changing beliefs as an adult is not easy; I can only imagine it would be very difficult to accept the more "controversial" parts of LDS history and theology.

[–]Whiteguyanonymous 4 points5 points ago

I know a man who was a theology and world religions professor and it took 20 years to convert him should I get him to do an AMA?

[–]alienelement 1 point2 points ago

I'd maybe be interested

[–]Simba7 -1 points0 points ago

God yes. At least at /r/atheism if /r/Iama isn't interested.

[–]mormonguy2010 2 points3 points ago

I went from Catholic, to Agnostic as a teen, and Mormon as an adult (mid twenties). I'm also black, so I guess that's extra rare. I had a hard time with several things in LDS history and theology, but I'm pretty comfortable and happy with my religion after being a member for 3 years. I wouldn't mind answering a couple of questions, but I don't have a lot of time to devote to it at the moment.

[–]kmck96[S] 1 point2 points ago

i was born in, but my parents have always given me the choice to drop it whenever i want. and no, i don't personally know of anyone... gonna be stereotypical mormon missionary here, but mormon.org has a chat section where you can find adult converts to talk with

[–]TheTrueIrishMan 0 points1 point ago

I went from Irish catholic/ gangs to Mormon / strait and narrow when I was sixteenish. Is that close enough?

[–]BigBrotherBacon 1 point2 points ago

Changing beliefs as an adult is not easy

It's actually pretty simple. Just show me solid evidence supporting ANY of the religions and you will change half of reddit's beliefs. That seems pretty simple to me.

[–]i_got_this 0 points1 point ago

As an atheist liberal Redditor [FTFY]

[–]Nateosis 6 points7 points ago

im sure your magic underwear will keep you safe

[–]KennyLovesYou 2 points3 points ago

Only if you're on a mission. There's a "revelation" in the Doctrine and Covenants that says missionaries can't go near the water because Satan has greater powers there.

EDIT #2: I've just texted a sister who was in San Diego on her mission 1 year ago, and my dad who served in South Korea in the 70s, and they both confirmed that this below passage was indeed used to justify not allowing missionaries in the water.

EDIT: Here's the actual passage: D&C 61:13-19

13 And now, behold, for your good I gave unto you a commandment concerning these things; and I, the Lord, will reason with you as with men in days of old.

14 Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters.

15 Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters.

16 And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart.

17 And, as I, the Lord, in the beginning cursed the land, even so in the last days have I blessed it, in its time, for the use of my saints, that they may partake the fatness thereof.

18 And now I give unto you a commandment that what I say unto one I say unto all, that you shall forewarn your brethren concerning these waters, that they come not in journeying upon them, lest their faith fail and they are caught in snares;

19 I, the Lord, have decreed, and the destroyer rideth upon the face thereof, and I revoke not the decree.

[–]rich_jj 3 points4 points ago

It's not so cut and dry in Mormonism. Like lots of scripture-type language, it's not clear how to interpret what's being said in D&C 61. To me this seems to say that in the last days (today?) people shouldn't travel to Zion by water, because John connects the devil to water in Revelation 8:10-11. Apparently if you ignore this your faith may fail and you may get caught in snares, whatever that means.

There is also an old folk doctrine (read: unofficial, underground) that is sometimes told that the devil has some special control over water and missionaries have come to mysterious close calls when swimming. Missionaries are indeed officially restricted from swimming, but I think it's more to keep them away from recreation and skimpy bathing suits. During missionary service (~2 years) missionaries are restricted from lots of activities, like dating, movies, personal reading, formal education, employment, dancing, popular music, etc.

[–]KennyLovesYou 3 points4 points ago

I completely understand your explanation. My addendum on some replies was that not only does it have some antiquated scripture to avoid water, but that it's used and interpreted by modern day missionary trainers, mission presidents, and missionaries themselves to be the justification for not going in the ocean. Yes, they(missionaries) need to be chaste, pure, and avoid sexual arousal and contact, so axing beach going would help. But in every instance in which I've talked to missionaries, they have said it wasn't taught along those lines, but that D&C 61 was used as evidence.

[–]jcannon98188 0 points1 point ago

I think that the scripture being used to justify is more mormon culture then mormon doctrine. I think that rich_jj's explanation is the more doctrinaly correct response.

[–]G1RCH 3 points4 points ago

yeah, that has nothing to do with why missionaries can't go swimming

[–]KennyLovesYou 0 points1 point ago

Then tell my sibling's mission presidents they're mistaken. Straight from multiple horse's mouths.

[–]G1RCH -1 points0 points ago

mission presidents don't know everything

[–]lonely_squall -1 points0 points ago

Nope. That's exactly why they can't go swimming.

[–]G1RCH 0 points1 point ago

show me where someone one who makes those decisions says that is why

[–]KennyLovesYou 0 points1 point ago

I did, and you say "they don't know everything" lol

[–]G1RCH 0 points1 point ago

mission presidents don't make the rules. The General authorities do.

[–]KennyLovesYou 0 points1 point ago

Mission presidents also have their own rules for their specific mission, but yes most rules come from the GA. Either way, it's taught.

[–]iwtwe 1 point2 points ago

"missionaries can't go near the water because "satan" has greater powers there" LOFL thats like saying Santa can't go near candy canes because they make him too jolly

[–]KennyLovesYou 1 point2 points ago

I'm not Mormon anymore, just passing on what was told to me by multiple missionaries in multiple missions in multiple generations (1970s-present).

[–]RobbiC 0 points1 point ago

lol.. you couldn't make it up... Oh wait

[–]jasyrata -2 points-1 points ago

Mormon here....please show me where it says that....check your facts please. Oh, and just be cool.

[–]KennyLovesYou 7 points8 points ago

Check the edit.

Source: I grew up Mormon, whole family is Mormon, multiple family members who did missions confirmed this, even ones in Southern California near a beach had this exact passage read to them with that exact reasoning given in different missions with different mission presidents.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]KennyLovesYou 1 point2 points ago

My comment wasn't a direct reply to the OP. It was to someone asking if they couldn't swim. I clarified that it's for missionaries only. So... tell me how I was giving the OP shit?

[–]Jimmytheknifei 2 points3 points ago

Did you just say your Mormon followed by check your facts....really?

[–]bump_nasty 0 points1 point ago

*you're.

[–]N0V0w3ls 0 points1 point ago

They found out about bubbling, so they banned it.

[–]lisabadcat -1 points0 points ago

Just ask Worf. (best I could find quickly)

[–]wookiesandwich -1 points0 points ago

not if you have magic undies

[–]BorgDrone 0 points1 point ago

Don't your magic underpants protect you against the pressure and lack of oxygen ?

[–]CupICup 0 points1 point ago

So youre a Mormon/Republican/Sponge?

[–]rabidpeacock 0 points1 point ago

Nah there is nothing wrong with that. I think the fact u r a sponge is a problem. Heaven is for people and super intelligent otters only

[–]G1RCH 1 point2 points ago

like p b & j otter

[–]dermo529 8 points9 points ago

Kolob won't like that...

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]shouldernauts 1 point2 points ago

Hmmm, except that chocolate has a bit of caffeine too, right?

[–]G1RCH 4 points5 points ago

it's not caffeine its coffee that's not allowed

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]jcannon98188 3 points4 points ago

While this is technically correct, I find it slightly humorous that language was used to correct someone about Mormon beliefs :P

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]jcannon98188 1 point2 points ago

I didn't mean to imply that you were. I just found it funny that strong language was used to correct someone on the subject. Just doesn't happen very often.

[–]wolfgang5feet 0 points1 point ago

It's as though you had the option to be civil, or to be a fag. You made the choice you felt was in keeping with your identity. So take THAT, and THAT!

[–]shouldernauts -1 points0 points ago

Early in my life I was raised Mormon, and it was always strange to see my family ingesting some things with caffeine and shunning other things that had nearly the same amount. It was one of the many, many things that made me question the whole religion and eventually remove myself from it which has nearly alienated me from my family. It is a ridiculous religion with all sorts of illogical and arbitrary rules...but yeah I'm the dumbass. Dumbass.

[–]zoomdaddy 6 points7 points ago

Thank you coffee police. I'm sure you harass vegans when they eat honey too, huh?

[–]tyereliusprime 8 points9 points ago

Only if they harass me for eating meat first.

[–]zoomdaddy 2 points3 points ago

Yes. I think it is legally permissible in that case :)

[–]sleepingdeep 0 points1 point ago

for eating honey? no.

for being vegan? yes.

[–]sthomps682280 1 point2 points ago

it's just decaf tea... i promise

[–]mengelesparrot -1 points0 points ago

You can get an iced coffee, that way it is not a hot drink.

[–]kawaiigardiner 24 points25 points ago

For all the faults of Romney I would say the bigger liability was Paul Ryan and the hyper-conservatives that have the party by the short and curlies.

[–]as1126 3 points4 points ago

I think Ryan really short-circuited his political career. I know it's hard to say "No" when someone asks you if you want to be US VP, but to be honest, I thought he would (and should) run for the top office at some point in the future.

[–]akatsukix 7 points8 points ago

Chris Christie is a much better candidate and did say no

[–]eirannach 0 points1 point ago

They never asked him. He was top choice, and then they decided against him because they figured he'd be so bombastic that he'd overshadow Romney.

[–]UrbtoOSU 0 points1 point ago

I think Chris Christie thought a year and a half ago that Obama had this election in the bag no matter what. I honestly expect him to be the nominee for 2016 because he likely sees that being a far easier year to be elected as a Republican. When he threw Romney under the bus a week before the election it really seemed like he was just trying to drive a nail in Romney's coffin to insure there wouldn't be an incumbent Republican President in 2016 to take away his chance.

[–]as1126 0 points1 point ago

2016 or later. His time will come.

[–]yeahthatguyagain 0 points1 point ago

Honestly I think Ryan helped him significantly. Especially within his own party. A lot of people, even republicans, couldn't quite get behind Romney but when he announced Ryan as his VP they finally had someone they thought was a real republican.

[–]kawaiigardiner 1 point2 points ago

IMHO would have preferred to see Jon Huntsman as the presidential candidate with Gary Johnson as VP - both of them moderate socially, economically free market although I'm sure there would be sensible regulation where required. For me the issue with Romney or Ryan has never been their religion, heck they could be cat worshippers if all I cared but their far right socially conservative agenda and lack of reality when it comes to economic policy (see Paul Ryans record or the fact that Romney has never run a real business - you know, the quaint idea of actually creating products and selling them rather than financial bullshittery).

[–]KookyGuy 1 point2 points ago

Frankly I think it had to do more with the Auto bailout. Cost him both Michigan and Ohio. He really needed those states to stand a chance.

[–]kawaiigardiner 0 points1 point ago

True but even that there was still the issue of pretty much splitting the country between angry old white men and everyone else; when you shun women, latinos, black, LGBT, young people and college graduates you have very few people to pull on to come out to the voting booth in your favour. Either Republicans need to wake up, purge the party of the socially conservative parasites or find that they're relegated to irrelevancy in the future.

[–]KookyGuy 0 points1 point ago

Your right that Republicans are having a hard time appealing to minorities. Eventually whites will become the minority in the United States which means the Republican party has to reevaluate their platforms on certain issues or their going to have a tough time in future elections. They all also need to somehow get rid of stigma that Republicans don't care about minorities.

[–]kawaiigardiner 0 points1 point ago

The solution is, get rid of the social conservatives and religious right; have an agenda based on being economically freemarket (within reason, sensible regulation, simplified tax system etc) and socially liberal - straddle that divide and you'll get the minorities of all stripes as well as those in the centre. The problem is when you have anti-abortion, anti-contraception, anti-immigration, anti-LGBT etc. people running as the standard bearer of conservatism then you're going to keep losing election after election as the demographics move away from what you're trying to market to the masses.

[–]dclowd9901 0 points1 point ago

Yes. There needed to be some sort of lesson to the Republican Party that extremism isn't the future of politics.

[–]IrishTek 0 points1 point ago

Look how close they got though. McCain was actually electable, and got destroyed.

If anything I think the GOP is going to double down on the obstructionism.

[–]kawaiigardiner 0 points1 point ago

I doubt it'll happen since we're already seen the Monday quarter backing from the likes of Rush, Sean and O'Reilly, Eric Bolling either claiming that they weren't conservative enough or +50% of the population want free stuff (saw on 'The Five' last night on Fox as claimed by Eric Bolling). This is the kind of delusional RDF (Reality Distortion Field) that the conservatives are engaging in then expect them to find themselves losing a tonne of seats next time congress/senate are up for re-election. Republicans are digging their own graves through denial and the blame game.

[–]dclowd9901 0 points1 point ago

Mitch McConnell came out saying that there needed to be more reaching across the aisle. Granted he's been saying that for a while, but my hope is this time he meant "by republicans." If that's the case, we may see a better, stronger Republican Party. I really do hope so. Better party means better competition which means better choices. I'd love to be genuinely conflicted over an election for once.

I'd take the pundits with a grain of salt. My guess is republicans are going to start distancing themselves from the likes of their base. There's no evidence their actions thus far could possibly yield power. Get out of social issues and admit the need for a safety net, and I could very well vote red next time around.

[–]glasnostic 0 points1 point ago

funny.. the conservatives are saying the exact opposite thing. So the party will continue to split.

me like

[–]kawaiigardiner 1 point2 points ago

Yeah, I heard about that - the right wing nuts claiming that they need to go "more conservative, more hardcore, more anti-abortion etc." to which I say, "sure, go right ahead". I'm of two minds, I would like to see Republicans be 'normal' again for the sake of having a viable alternative to the Democrats (thus keep the Democrats honest) but equally to see them self destruct might be the only way a replacement can come forward to replace it.

[–]TheUltimatePoet 15 points16 points ago

<Vicious and completely inappropriate comment>

[–]Gnslngr 12 points13 points ago

Er.. Sorry bout that. Must be tough.

[–]fritter_rabbit 73 points74 points ago

I felt some sympathy for you until I remembered: oh yeah, you can choose to be neither of those things!

[–]man_after_midnight 15 points16 points ago

But when you reddit, you reddit for life.

[–]Anonymous3891 7 points8 points ago

/r/exmormon is there for you.

[–]Hydrownage 2 points3 points ago

It's often hard to leave Mormonism because of the tendency of families to excommunicate the member that left the faith. If many of/most/all of your friends and family won't talk to you again if you change your beliefs, you're going to be less likely to do so.

[–]yeahthatguyagain 2 points3 points ago

Maybe I'm the odd one out here but I feel like if my family is willing to excommunicate me cause I've decided I don't want to believe some weirdo who wrote his own bible and that I want to drink coffee then dude I don't want their support.

[–]DJ-Anakin 2 points3 points ago

I did it. It's not hard. I don't have one friend or family member who "excommunicated" me. Even among my hardcore LDS friends.

[–]dagnart 4 points5 points ago

This is one of the defining characteristics of a cult, btw.

[–]glasnostic 1 point2 points ago

I don't think OP has to be open to his/her family about his/her personal beliefs.

[–]Hydrownage 0 points1 point ago

Neither do I, just stating some facts.

[–]bemotion -4 points-3 points ago

Judging the guy based on one belief. How very open minded of you.

[–]OhManThisIsAwkward 3 points4 points ago

That's not one belief. A person's spiritual and religious background (especially something as structured as the Mormon faith) says a lot about a person.

[–]yeahthatguyagain -1 points0 points ago

Not quite true. It says a lot about their history and upbringing. Not necessarily who they are.

[–]IrishTek 1 point2 points ago

One of my very best friends identifies as Mormon because of how he was raised.

He also drinks me under the table, gambles, and has a sponsored bar in his basement.

[–]bemotion 0 points1 point ago

I've known a lot of those. I used to consider myself Mormon, until I started thinking for myself. I still drank, smoked weed, gambled, all that stuff that Mormons probably aren't supposed to do.

[–]DJ-Anakin 1 point2 points ago

Actually being Republican and Mormon are two. ;)

[–]bemotion 0 points1 point ago

touche

[–]weissmike 5 points6 points ago

I, for one, would be interested in an AMA.

[–]olympiapanics 5 points6 points ago

Don't Feel bad. Romney wasn't really a republican. Real republicans are a dying breed. They abandoned their platform in the past 20-30 years in greater and greater numbers.

[–]jelaras 14 points15 points ago

Wasn't spongebob declared gay at some point?

[–]hur_hur_boobs 4 points5 points ago

I think only patrick was. SpongeBob is bisexual seeing how his freaky affair with Sandy is still going strong.

[–]lugnut92 9 points10 points ago

They're both officially asexual.

[–]clubdepizza 6 points7 points ago

Does sexual orientation even apply to a anthropomorphic sea sponge who works at an underwater fast food joint?

edit: gender to orientation

[–]lugnut92 0 points1 point ago

I'm pretty sure he is explicitly male.

[–]clubdepizza 1 point2 points ago

Good call, I edited that.

[–]lugnut92 0 points1 point ago

Mmkay. The only reason it ever came up is because a few anti-gay groups were claiming that the show was forwarding "the homosexual agenda" or some nonsense like that.

[–]clubdepizza 1 point2 points ago

It's just plain ridiculous what some people will say.

[–]denialist 1 point2 points ago

Like most things in SpongeBob, there's a strong scientific basis for this official stance; both sponges and starfish are known to live and even reproduce asexually in the wild.

[–]DrawnDuck -1 points0 points ago

Retarded bible belt christian mongers concocted the idea if I remember correctly.

Pretty sure everyone just went with it without caring because it's a fucking kids show who gives a fuck.

[–]ostrofci 4 points5 points ago

Nice try Governor Romney.

[–]c_alas 49 points50 points ago

Mormon? Really? But... you have the internet- a world of knowledge at you fingertips.

[–]clubdepizza 4 points5 points ago

Maybe OP is... an internet mormon

[–]eksekseksg3 1 point2 points ago

I'm shocked to learn that's actually a thing.

[–]JayTS 0 points1 point ago

I was expecting bubble porn.

[–]HarryDicke 15 points16 points ago

You in the wrong neighborhood mother fucker

[–]minidini10 0 points1 point ago

Glad to see I'm not the only republican still here.

[–]Braziliger 3 points4 points ago

As an atheist, liberal-minded person, I'd totally come drink coffee at the bottom of the sea with you

I don't care if you're Mormon or Republican or Hindu or Communist or Pastafarian or whatever the fuck, what matters to me is that you can sit down with another person and have a decent conversation, and disagree but still get along. Reddit as a whole isn't very good at doing this - but most people aren't, so I don't hold it against anybody. Anyway enjoy your coffee, Spongebob. I'd join you if I could breathe under water and not get crushed by the tremendous pressure of being at the bottom of the ocean

[–]Sc0tt98 0 points1 point ago

*All wars end.

[–]HgUuGiGtIaEr 13 points14 points ago

The joke is claiming to openly be a Mormon and Republican on reddit, for those who don't get it.

[–]PforPanchetta511 13 points14 points ago

It's akin to being a black, homosexual, democrat in Texas.

[–]omar_ohindeed 1 point2 points ago

I live in Texas and I knew one. Half-black though.

[–]pauldy 1 point2 points ago

Yea, that's not uncommon I know a few. The black homosexual republican in a liberal state, that's pretty rare. Mainly because of ignorant stereo types and intolerance. Unfortunately, seen in much of the discussions here.

[–]Rejit 0 points1 point ago

My favorite stereo type is Sony. My favorite stereotype is that all African-Americans are good at basketball.

[–]pauldy 0 points1 point ago

Thanks for clearing that up.

[–]omar_ohindeed 0 points1 point ago

You take that back. Boss is better.

[–]BrokenHorse 1 point2 points ago

Keyword here being "knew".

[–]omar_ohindeed 0 points1 point ago

I should probably clarify "not in the biblical sense." Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[–]DrawnDuck 1 point2 points ago

Not really though, black people are almost entirely Democrat and southern states tend to have a decent amount of black people.

Texas is on the end of the "black belt"

Homosexuals however, yeah, if black culture didn't suppress it then Texas probably finished the job.

[–]baileyburritt 2 points3 points ago

[–]ravenclown 0 points1 point ago

I see you have a cup of coffee there.

[–]DreaGneWld 0 points1 point ago

Isn't Sponge Bob the devil to you people?

[–]HaydenTheFox 2 points3 points ago

My condolences.

[–]Conradical16 3 points4 points ago

As a fellow Mormon and republican redditor, I can sympathize

[–]Kunkletown 4 points5 points ago

A Mormon Redditor.. how is that possible?

[–]Heebmeister 4 points5 points ago

Those exist?

[–]G1RCH 3 points4 points ago

of course... we are plentiful

[–]elzorrodorito 0 points1 point ago

I think 70% of Mormons are Republican.

Though there are 3 times as many of us at r/exmormon than there are at r/lds.

[–]MaxIsAlwaysRight 5 points6 points ago

May I respectfully ask: Why are you a republican?

[–]as1126 6 points7 points ago

I will try to answer (although I am not OP and I am really conservative, not Republican).

First principles: The federal government has very few, enumerated powers found only in the Constitution. For me, that means only two things: run the military and build federal prisons, so it's exclusively bombs and jails. That's essentially it. Everything else belongs to the states or, even better, local municipalities (speed limits, medical insurance regulation, most tax policy, education policy). So, I firmly believe that the federal government plays too big a role in daily life in too many ways (income taxes, school laws, business regulation, and now, health insurance regulation). I don't think the federal government can decide what's best for me and my family, so, both parties want to exhibit some form of control over the population (e.g. some republicans want to determine what you smoke, who you can marry, can you scrape your uterus to remove unwanted contaminants and democrats want to determine how charitable you are, what level of income is "enough" and what insurance policies you can and should participate in). For me, the former examples aren't a concern (personally, I could give a rats ass what you smoke in your own house on your own time if you paid for it with your own money) but the latter are a real concern, since I'm trying to fund my retirement, keep my home, and pay for my kids to go to college. I couldn't care less who you sleep with (I'm in Boy Scouts and our troop has gay parents who are volunteer members and we exchange Christmas cards and they know who I am).

Being conservative to me means that I understand things will progress, but they should progress on the basis of very slow change, using legislative and judicial processes. We can't just jump and change everything on the whim of popular opinion as soon as it reaches a tipping point on the coasts.

[–]MaxIsAlwaysRight 0 points1 point ago

Thank you for that thoughtful answer.

It sounds like you would be booed out of the Republican Party by its leadership these days, though. Their official platform demands loads of new federal legislation (banning gay marriage, abortions, etc) and insists that any change is awful. I respect tat we should be more cautious with how we move forward, and agree, but the RNC is reactionary these days. They want to move backwards.

As far as taxation, I agree that anyone concerned about retirement and college shouldn't be overly taxed. When we say "the rich should pay more," we generally mean those making upwards of 500k. They can afford to pay more, without worrying too much about retirement.

I'm sorry you see taxes for social welfare programs as mandated charity. That isn't it at all. There are certain things the gov't can do which private charities cannot, and that is where social programs come in.

I agree that we should reevaluate the balance of power between federal and local governments, but as long as there are states where bigotry and ignorance are still prevalent, that's a dangerous game.

[–]as1126 3 points4 points ago

You lost me at "rich." There is no such thing. That's where I go off the rails. There's no level that some outside entity can say "you have enough." That's not a role I am inclined to assign to anyone outside of the person involved. People are free and that means they are free to be greedy, as long as they don't do anything illegal.

[–]Saucysauce 2 points3 points ago

So I can understand, you view our governmental structure as being one that regulates change, specifically "slow change"?

I agree with the idea of small government and states being the "laboratories" for the US. However, I'm not familiar with the idea our government is designed for slow change (the fact that it, for the most part, operates this way is a given). If you don't mind, can you explain how you arrived at this idea?

As a person who lives "on the coasts", I'll admit that your comment comes across a bit negatively for me, since you seem to also be saying that popular rule is also a bad thing (since the majority of the US population is near the coast). Was that intended?

[–]as1126 2 points3 points ago

Popular rule is almost always a bad thing (it's simply a different form of tyranny and is subject to popular whims, and that's no way to run a country). The checks and balances system ensures that things change slowly, a law gets passed, the judiciary poo-poos it and then it gets re-written. That process can and should take years to get right. Let the states figure it out.

I live on the coast, too, (in NY). So I am surrounded by liberals and I count many liberal friends (including avowed socialists), and I home schooled my kids, so I have plenty of experience with being the only conservative in the room (heck, I'm the only conservative in my house).

Edit: "Coast," not coats (although I am wearing a coat now, it's damn cold).

[–]asatele1 2 points3 points ago

same reason I may ask: Why are you not a republican? Because of our thoughts and ideas of how to effectively run a government.

[–]MaxIsAlwaysRight 0 points1 point ago

That's very broad. I'm more curious how someone can support a platform that would deny equal rights for all citizens, and favor the rich at the expense of the poor.

We may have different views, but I'm asking what the views of a republican are that allow them to support these positions.

[–]ForHumans 4 points5 points ago

Not all Republicans support every aspect of the Republican platform.

Mitt Romney, for example.

[–]Brandma 2 points3 points ago

Why I'm a Republican:
I'm conservative but libertarian in that I don't believe in enforcing my morals on others, so in that respect, I am just generally more comfortable around Republicans than Democrats. I was also very much against Bush for his spending/unnecessary war and voted for Obama before going back to my roots and becoming solidly Republican again. But why you may ask...

Republicans are more accepting of social liberalism than Democrats are of fiscal conservatism. When I talk with other Republicans about not wanting to enforce morals on others, they are generally understanding. When I talk with Democrats on fiscal conservatism, the conversation quickly becomes a defense of how I do not, in fact, hate poor people. This may be something I'll be crucified for saying on Reddit, but from 10 years' experience of switching between the parties, it is true.

Even so - why do I still support economic policy over social policy? Honestly, I do see it as more important. Most social policy can be reversed with the flip of a policy switch or one law, it's not usually that complicated to switch -- just needs political will to do so. The longer economic problems go on, though, the further they compound and the problem gets much, much worse and harder to deal with. Do I wish my party supported gay marriage, sensible immigration reform, and good drug policy? Damn straight, but if forced to choose, I will kick that can down the road 4 more years because it will be no more difficult to fix it then than it is now, if anything it will be easier as people become more socially liberal. Working on the problem of debt and entitlements, though, get much harder the longer you wait. What you are seeing in Greece now is the result of kicking the debt problem can down the road. It will only get harder and harder until it becomes too late. And by too late, I mean social security is projected to go bankrupt in the 2030s by government studies, not Republican think tanks. We are already paying more money into it than we are taking in. 15% of the government budget now already also only goes to debt interest payments, and that is with historically low interest rates. When rates go back to normal levels and with the $20 trillion in projected debt by 2016, we will be spending $1 trillion per year on debt interest alone. If avoiding that means having to wait a bit longer for marriage equality, that is a very easy choice to make to me. That is something that will affect us all.

But why support the rich over the poor? I don't, and neither do Republicans. Republicans want a revenue neutral approach to taxes that lowers rates while removing deductions and loopholes that rich people use. Remember that time GE reported no federal income tax? That pissed off all Republicans, too. The goal is to make it fairer to everybody while increasing everybody's take-home pay while at the same time not bankrupting government. Government spending as a percentage of GDP is wht has exploded, not taxes as a percentage of GDP collapsing. The most tax revenue the government actually collected was in 2007 under Bush when times were good. Republicans believe you increase government revenue by increasing economic output, and that has been true. Both Kennedy and Reagan lowered taxes, and with a stronger economy, tax revenue actually increased.

Why focus on spending cuts instead of revenue increases? Fiscal conservatives have heard this a million times -- from Democrats and other Republicans. Just give us this tiny tax increase, and we will get serious about spending, for real this time. Right now government spending accounts for almost 27% of GDP, and the historic average for tax revenue has been 18 - 20% of GDP. Talking point or not, Paul Ryan was right. We have a spending problem, not a tax problem. I could see the GOP backing down on the hard-line tax stance if they finally see real, across-the-board spending cuts, and having tax increases down the road as part of the deal if earlier cuts were part of the terms. But why not to the military? There is a growing voice in the Republican party saying just this same thing. Rand Paul used his convention speaking spot to say this.

Outlook for the future: The conversations have already begun among influential Republicans and among casual conversations between Republicans that social conservatism is dead as a major national issue platform. We are now lying in the bed that was made by Bush for making a big part of his re-election bid about opposition to gay marriage. The GOP recognizes they have to modernize/moderate on gay marriage, immigration, and drug policy or risk losing an entire generation of current young Americans and all hispanics to Democrats. Our survival instincts are kicking in. The GOP nominee in 2016 will be supportive of gay marriage, open to drug reform, supportive of some form of amnesty as part of a larger immigration reform package, and although still personally pro-life, not as much a hard-liner on the issue.

I hope that answers some of your questions.

[–]thebrewcrew82 1 point2 points ago

Because you can always make up in your mind what equal rights entail. I can believe that gay marriage is not an equal right because of religion or not producing children, etc. Does that make their ideas right? Maybe, maybe not and in fact a significant part of the republican party does agree with at least civil unions.

I would disagree with your characterization that republicans are against the poor. Republicans believe in a different economic philosophy. This philosophy entails giving the job creators or rich the most amount of money to create more jobs, as many as possible. They want the private sector to create as many jobs as possibly and with lower taxes, they believe this will help the poor get jobs.

With the entitlement programs like welfare and medicaid, the republicans are against this, for the most part, on philosophy. They believe that people should be responsible for their own well-being. They would rather give tax breaks to private organizations to do this for the government, as they believe this would be less government power and less bureaucracy.

Obviously this was all my opinion and republicans may disagree with me. It is also important to note that republicans do not always follow this and some do actually dislike the poor/minorities etc.

[–]CapnKatie 0 points1 point ago

Most Republicans I know will give me the line, "I don't have anything against homosexuality or women, but I like Republican economics more." Which is a pretty shitty way of saying, "My taxes are way more important than your reproductive rights or marriage equality."

[–]yeahthatguyagain 1 point2 points ago

That's not true. Its just means that we are more in line with Republicans fiscally. I find it unfortunate that republicans all have to be viewed as a bunch of hateful and unintelligent theists. Some of us just want a more capitalistic economy the way the US used to be.

[–]CapnKatie 0 points1 point ago

I do too, but not at the expensive of my and my friends' rights.

[–]denialist 1 point2 points ago

Because the Republican party seems to have a dangerous amount of batshit crazy all up in it. It's like Alec Baldwin tweeted: the pandering religious nutjobbery and fetish for blind contrarianism and maverickism is unacceptable to voters like myself.

Some examples of Republican-promoted batshit crazy we've seen this election cycle:

  • Illegalize abortion even for rape and incest. To many, this seems unreasonable and unrealistic.
  • Disenfranchise overseas (including deployed military) and other voters because they need to have a government-issued ID with them at a polling station. Short-sighted, blatantly antidemocratic, and very costly knee-jerk overreaction to an extremely minor problem.
  • Ban state recognition of gay couples. Obviously religiously motivated and homophobic.

Sad thing is, it's a bitter cycle: the crazier prominent Republicans get, the more alienated many serious-minded voters feel. I could be sympathetic to Republican fiscal ideas if the party hadn't delegitimized itself to the point of ludicrousness.

[–]denialist 1 point2 points ago

Addendum to this: a couple of long-standing issues where I seem to be strongly at odds with popular Republican opinion are anti-unionism and the privatization or near-privatization of the public-sector (education is a popular example of this).

Regarding anti-unionism: unions are not only historically important (I like having weekends, sick time, and factory safety regulation) but remain important for preserving those rights and ensuring a reasonable wage. I realize the ideal is that a free market can solve the problem (i.e., no one wants to work at a crappy company) but we don't live in an ideal world: corporatism is a reality, it's not going away, and it undermines the free market ideal sufficiently enough that unions are a necessity. They're also important for blue-collar manual and "unskilled" laborers who are cheaply replaced and suffered terribly before unions existed.

The privatization of the public sector is slightly more complicated, and to be honest is an area where the neo-liberals and Democrats often seem in agreement with Republicans (e.g., a lot of self-professed liberals loved Waiting for Superman and agreed with its core message that charter schools are a solution to a perceived education crisis). To me, vouchers and other methods of privatizing education seem a reductio ad absurdum of libertarian ideals: it's not that I disagree with libertarianism entirely, but I think one should be conservative about applying it -- a radical change like this could have many unintended consequences, including the disenfranchisement of poor students. (Poverty correlates with student underperformance like no other statistic.)

These at least are more nuanced and debatable issues that can be reasonably discussed, even though they're oversimplified in the current political climate. I mention them for that reason: they're issues where both sides make rational arguments and where I might be persuaded to vote differently if prominent Republicans weren't running around ruining the party's reputation by making it seem dangerous and unstable.

*Edit: typo, unless Republicans are also opposed to ant unions. I suspect they are not. Also added last sentence to final paragraph to make it clear why I'm waffling on about all this.

[–]norsegods 3 points4 points ago

[–]Passeri_ 0 points1 point ago

I waited too long for it to move

[–]altruistic_objective 2 points3 points ago

...Romney?

[–]heymoron 2 points3 points ago

YOUR RELIGION IS CRAZY AND YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS ARE WRONG!

Though in fairness every Mormon I have ever known was extremely, sometimes painfully, nice even if they had somewhat strange family lives. Also, Republicans are generally good people. I grew up in an area that was largely Catholic and Republican while my parents were atheist and liberal and I never felt discriminated against or disliked in my entire life.

[–]iruleU 1 point2 points ago

That better be postum in that cup my young square friend

[–]G1RCH 1 point2 points ago

haha... i hear that stuff is nasty

[–]bigred1369 0 points1 point ago

Did sponge bob move in the booth?

[–]Selectiveslut23 1 point2 points ago

I sure hope that's tea in that cup!

[–]cerealdaemon 0 points1 point ago

[–]spicyflavor -1 points0 points ago

If you really feel this way, Pinterest is a silly little place where good feelings and mormons are as far as the eye can see.

[–]Aldesso 0 points1 point ago

tagged as Willard Mitt

[–]DooDooBrownz[!] 1 point2 points ago

that depiction of a sponge is blasphemous. you must cut off your testicles and feed them to a badger.

[–]mormonguy2010 0 points1 point ago

Know that feel bro.

[–]herooftime94 0 points1 point ago

If someone made the coffee steam flowing, this would be a great cinemagraph.

[–]bdubs588 0 points1 point ago

There is so much intolerance in this thread from a party/group that claims to be more tolerant of other people's beliefs...

[–]ObesesPieces 0 points1 point ago

I'm sorry so many people are hostile about this. If you actually are as you say then I wish you the best. You could try some of the more conservative or religious subreddits. r/Christianity is actually full of pretty nice people.

[–]ryanknapper 0 points1 point ago

There's at least one other. I've seen them, unloading crate after crate of bigfoots…

[–]eristicrat 0 points1 point ago

have we taught you nothing?

[–]spacemanspiff30 0 points1 point ago

Why? I have seen very few posts bashing anyone for being either. Add to this that Romney's religion had very little to do with his loss, but his stance on most issues involving the economy and his party's obstructionist activities.

[–]revbone 1 point2 points ago

What are you doing?!? You aren't allowed to drink coffee!!!

[–]another_old_fart 0 points1 point ago

Not even a picture of SpongeBob will make me sympathize with you. We won. You lost. Suck it.

[–]not_charles_grodin 3 points4 points ago

I hope that you know it's not because he's a Mormon (although, seriously, God lives on Kolob and will return to Missouri? Really?) or that he was Republican (because he wasn't a very good Republican), it's that he was a terrible, terrible candidate who ultimately stood for nothing and ran a horrible campaign.

[–]elzorrodorito -1 points0 points ago

As a former Mormon and former republican, it doesn't have to be that way.

[–]13stoner20 2 points3 points ago

forever alone

[–]Kennian -1 points0 points ago

Alright Gentlemen, Rope and torches on the left...pitchforks on the right.

Get Em!

[–]WhitePostIt 1 point2 points ago

I read that at "Rape and torches"

[–]mythicalmarine -2 points-1 points ago

Heard that!

[–]EvelynJames 0 points1 point ago

Don't sweat the Mormonism, in my opinion, Mormonism was the least of anyone's issues with Romney. On the other hand, you may want to consider your allegiance to the sinking ship party. You can be "conservative" in any party, but you'll be doomed to that diner for the rest of your days if you stick with the GOP.

[–]LinuxUser437442 -2 points-1 points ago

[–]smokes_degrass -2 points-1 points ago

You should probably just kill yourself.