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[/r/all]The War Z terms and conditions copy\pasted from League of Legends (i.imgur.com)

submitted ago by sesquip

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[–]Dirtcopter77 961 points962 points ago

Not even the developers read the ToS...

[–]jean_baptiste 444 points445 points ago

OP noticing this is more surprising than any copying and pasting

[–]OriginalSyn 71 points72 points ago

Why would developers read the ToS? That's the lawyer and copywriter's job.

[–]finalfrog 64 points65 points ago

I believe the term is "copypaster" instead of "copywriter" in this case.

[–]LegendofEva 4 points5 points ago

Good point.

[–]skooterz 15 points16 points ago

WHY WON'T IT READ?!

load more comments (21 replies)

    [–]xthorgoldx 637 points638 points ago

    • "The accusations that we copied DayZ are ridiculous!"
    • "The accusations that we use resources from other games are just ridiculous!"
    • "The accusation that we use other games' ToS is... well founded, actually."

    [–]Mattk50 228 points229 points ago

    These are the same guys who produced big rigs(the actual worst game ever made) and have constantly ripped off components from other games in their subsequent productions.

    Nobody should be surprised. (And yes its very obvious they copied DayZ)

    Edit: Seems like the whole team wasn't involved with big rigs actually, but the lead was. Simply being associated with that game is a problem in itself.

    [–]GlennBecksChalkboard 167 points168 points ago

    Does this look familiar to you

    I wonder where I've seen that before...

    It's from this gameplay video.

    [–]o_oli 250 points251 points ago

    While it does kinda suck to steal content, that is actually the most awesome weapon modifying system I've ever used in a game and I'd be glad to see it become the norm.

    [–]Flytch 84 points85 points ago

    I have to agree with you, I loved that part of Crysis.

    [–]Prockzed 29 points30 points ago

    Yeah... if there is one ripoff i can forgive them for, it is this one. It is just plain fucking awesome.

    load more comments (15 replies)

      [–]DiogenesHoSinopeus 14 points15 points ago

      Who the heck would put the mouse look pivot point so far behind the actual view? That feels uncomfortable as hell.

      [–]Ballistica 2 points3 points ago

      If I put my gun in front of the sun it can draw on its power and upgrade

      [–]Decoyrobot 0 points1 point ago

      Its boktai all over again... Damn sun why did you have to cloud over now...

      [–]Cheesebergler 19 points20 points ago

      I see no problem with the War Z implementing this game mechanic. All games borrow ideas from each other to help inspire new ones.

      [–]Tokeli 5 points6 points ago

      There's a difference between copying the mechanic and blatantly ripping off the interface right down to the styles.

      [–]Shabla 2 points3 points ago

      So they use a good idea from another game and it's bad... why ?

      [–]greyfoxv1 0 points1 point ago

      I'm not one to call out developers on reiteration of a good concept but that's just flat out copying and changing the colour scheme. This game has reeked of a scam since they announced pre-orders without showing anything concrete & purely sold it on the hype coat tails of DayZ.

      load more comments (5 replies)

        [–]loktar00 49 points50 points ago

        http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/11jk83/the_war_z_terms_and_conditions_copypasted_from/c6n6j8v

        No they aren't.

        [–]aperx 156 points157 points ago

        These are the same guys who produced big rigs

        Oh god. I thought The War Z was actually going to be decent. I didn't know they made Big Rigs.

        Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha.

        [–]theodrixx 74 points75 points ago

        I'm actually really looking forward to it.

        Release version is going to be plagued with hilarious bugs, like zombies having no top speed while walking backwards and the player being able to scale 90 degree walls with no loss of momentum.

        [–]swebonny 69 points70 points ago

        They didn't. Sergey licenced his engine to the team that made Big Rigs.

        Edit: You can downvote me how much you want, but that's simply the fact. He also worked on LoL, Gears of War and several other games. He and his team may more or less be copycats, but it doesn't mean they are bad programmers.

        load more comments (2 replies)

          [–]Squirrellicious 14 points15 points ago

          These are the same guys who produced big rigs

          Eh, source?

          [–][deleted] ago

          [deleted]

          [–]MestR 55 points56 points ago

          It can be proved that they started development long before DayZ was released

          And that proof would be...?

          [–]volothebard 121 points122 points ago

          Apparently the proof was so overwhelming it deleted his comment.

          [–]gerryn 24 points25 points ago

          They have worked on this engine for years, but they changed their focus to be a zombie game after dayz got so popular.

          [–]MestR 24 points25 points ago

          Yeah that is probably true. But to say WarZ has been in development that long is like saying valve has been working on Portal 2 since 2005.

          [–]simspelaaja 10 points11 points ago

          To be more precise since 1996, because that's when Valve bought Quake engine license and they have been building their engine own engine on top of it since then.

          [–]TehFence 0 points1 point ago

          They probably had even earlier concepts.

          [–]gerryn 4 points5 points ago

          I agree, I wasn't very excited about the game, and now that this come out I'm getting less and less excited by the minute reading comments here.

          [–]MonsterIt 0 points1 point ago

          In the pudding.....duh.

          [–]Figgots 1 point2 points ago

          It was Stellar Stone that made BROTRR, are there people from there that are working on War Z?

          load more comments (4 replies)

            [–]Pattoner 29 points30 points ago

            I really don't think shooting zombies is "copied". Its a genre on its own.

            [–]smashybashy 36 points37 points ago

            No DayZ invented the entire idea of zombies and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

            [–]IAMBollock 17 points18 points ago

            Oh come on, I don't mind them copying DayZ but it's obvious hat they are. You sound like all the people that said that the Minecraft clones were copying infiniminer. There's more to it than just zombies.

            edit: To clarify, there's a lot more to DayZ than just Zombies... and therefore there's a lot more that WarZ has taken from it. You're trying to make out that people's argument is that DayZ invented zombies and that's all warz took, which is obviously untrue.

            [–]Mo0man 8 points9 points ago

            I think it wasn't originally a copy. I mean, it was announced... what? a few weeks after Day Z came out? I think it was probably already in development when Day Z became popular, and it was more an "Oh shit, we need to announce now otherwise we're fucked"

            Although probably they did change a lot of stuff in reaction to Day Z

            [–]macheesmo 1 point2 points ago

            it WAS in development, however it was going to be a left 4 dead clone but they changed development direction when DayZ blew up.

            [–]NvBoone 0 points1 point ago

            Yes they took more than just zombies. However other aspects of the game are well established genre norms. For example:

            1. Resource management (finding guns, ammo and food/supplies) have been in many zombie games, such as; Resident Evil, Fort Zombie, Dead Rising and Left 4 Dead.

            2. Open explorable worlds are common as well. Examples; Fort Zombie and Dead Rising

            3. Even Coop and MP ideas aren't new. Just MMO's aren't common. Lets be honest too. Day Z (and War Z) are as close to an MMO as COD or BF are.

            So yes, their is more than zombies to take. However, one cannot steal that which is already stolen.

            [–]IAMBollock 1 point2 points ago

            All those ingredients create more than the sum of their parts though. It's a great recipe of ideas, I think you can steal recipes, not that I mind. The more DayZ clones the better. It's just some people say 'DayZ didn't invent zombies you know' - which is obviously silly because no one thinks that's all that was copied. Also you forgot one major point of it being a roguelike.

            are as close to an MMO as COD or BF are.

            Nah, can't agree here. DayZ has persistent servers and no rounds. Puts it much closer to an MMO than those 2.

            [–]MagicalTrevor09 1 point2 points ago

            The creator of War Z openly says it's like Day Z. The creator of Day Z openly says he doesn't care if anyone takes the idea. I don't see what the problem is here.

            load more comments (3 replies)

              [–]BillCosby3D 2 points3 points ago

              No they didn't copy DayZ in simply having zombies. People feel that they copied them in the idea of a MMO zombie survival game with large scale maps. As a DayZ player, I think that they bring different things to the table and I also heard that The War Z began development before DayZ.

              [–]xthorgoldx 0 points1 point ago

              Shooting zombies is not what I'm referring to. I'm talking about title, game mechanics, timing, and so on.

              [–]Shorvok 63 points64 points ago

              I'm not defending them in this situation but you have to remember that this is not really a new idea for a game. The idea has been around for a long time it just wasn't possible or people didn't want to risk the investment.

              DayZ proved that the game model can work so I think in the coming year we will see lots of games getting in on a new model, War Z included.

              Wait to see the results of their work. No point damning them for the idea when it really isn't that unique.

              [–]Redox80 102 points103 points ago

              Honestly it isn't even about copying DayZ anymore. I honestly don't give a shit about that. What I do care about is putting my money towards a worthwhile game. This is just another example in a long line of examples of why I won't be giving them any money at all. if they can't even proof read a ToS they know they stole then what makes you think they have a product worth your hard earned cash?

              Put the copycat argument aside and just look at how they represent themselves and their product. It's been pretty piss poor so far.

              [–]kcamrn 23 points24 points ago

              I agree. Who gives a shit if they copied DayZ? If the game happened to be fan-fucking-tastic, people would simply say they improved the idea. No big deal.

              What really matters is the final product, and I've been actually been pretty damn put off by their presentation of the product so far. We've seen no trailers, and only a couple clips of gameplay. This is supposed to be a fucking standalone game! I know I'm not the only one worried to jump on board.

              [–]orange_kevin 17 points18 points ago

              I've been playing the alpha, it's pretty solid so far, a few bugs and glitches but its generally quite decent fun, except I got beaten to death by another player wielding a flashlight who then found out he couldn't use this method on a zombie...

              There are some definite ideas lifted from other games, but that shit happens - we're reaching a point now where the 'common sense' argument comes into play really. If it seems intuitive and common sense in one game, then it most likely does in another.

              [–]smashybashy 16 points17 points ago

              I love how you're pretty much the only person here not saying it sucks and the only one who's actually played the fucking game.

              [–]orange_kevin 5 points6 points ago

              I just don't like to go on hearsay, I'd rather go to the source and try it out for myself and make up my own mind. I'm willing to bet a very large proportion of people within this thread haven't even touched the game itself.

              Whilst in Alpha, the ToS is a hilarious fumble at WarZ's expense - but what's the big deal really? The ToS for pretty much any modern game like this will be a carbon copy of another just with names changed. To me that doesn't show negligence, it shows that they've spent more time on the actual game. These people are game creators, not bloody lawyers. I don't realistically expect any of the creators themselves except the head honchos to even read the ToS because, simply, that isn't their job. Their job is to make the game. The ToS should be for the lawyers and heads.

              As for the game itself, it shows promise to be quite the contender in the survival zombie game genre, which, in reality, is still quite new. Yes, there are bloody obvious similarities to DayZ, and others. But in the modern world of gaming, it's bound to happen that there would be similarities. Hell, take Halo for example. A world on a ring? STOP THE PRESSES. That's 'Ringworld' by Larry Niven, a sci fi novel published in 1970 for crying out loud. Call of Duty was pretty much a carbon copy of Medal of Honor when it came out, and now they're just two games that are exactly the same just with a different name, with Battlefield dancing around the side going 'well la-de-fucking-da I have bigger multiplayer maps huhur!'

              So yeah, I'm trying the game in alpha, and I say it shows promise. It has its place. DayZ has a much more mature, gritty feel to it. WarZ is a bit more arcade-like, but with its fair share of strategy. Currently it's just flashlight bashing other players for their soda cans since you seem to just leak water, the world isn't finalised yet either, so is very constrained, but it looks and plays well, and its a damn sight easier to pick up items compared to DayZ...

              load more comments (3 replies)

                [–]Swissmilkhotel 5 points6 points ago

                My issue is I don't want to give money to any game that is going to cut corners that can be detrimental to the game. Hopefully the ToS is the only thing they didn't pay attention to.

                [–]Prockzed 1 point2 points ago

                To be fair there is no real way to say they "know" they copy pasta'd the ToS from LoL. (Well except now after thousands of people have chided and poked fun at them for it) For all we know some low level intern or whatever who was tasked with putting together the ToS just got lazy and did that and everyone assumed he did his job ('cause be honest, you didn't read it either until someone posted this, and you weren't already busy fixing up an alpha product enough for people to actually test it.)

                [–]Vergilus 6 points7 points ago

                DayZ proved that the game model can work so I think in the coming year we will see lots of games getting in on a new model, War Z included.

                Survival crisis Z comes to mind.

                [–]krelian 2 points3 points ago

                Wait to see the results of their work. No point damning them for the idea when it really isn't that unique.

                The fact that they choose a name such as the War Z (and yes I am aware of the novel) makes the copying so blatant that by denying it all they do is treat their potential customers like idiots (or truly believe they are idiots). It's exactly like that game FortressCraft (I think it was called). Games with names like that don't deserve any more respect then what you'd give your average Chinese knockoff.

                [–]smashybashy 7 points8 points ago

                Like that preposterous World War Z ripoff called DayZ.

                [–]ShadowTheReaper 2 points3 points ago

                Their other game is called War Inc.

                War Z makes sense.

                [–]NvBoone 0 points1 point ago

                Question; if they called the game "War Zombie" or even better "Zombie War" you'd be fine with that?

                So many zombie games and books share names and ideas. If any similarity is grounds to be punished we should ban anything that isn't Romero. Wait, that wouldn't work either as Romero "stole" his idea from Haitian folklore and religious ideology. Well guess none of us can be zombie fans anymore. Everyone go home!

                load more comments (3 replies)

                  [–]DanielTaylor 3 points4 points ago

                  I'm actually excited and waiting for "The dead linger" to be released, which seems much more realistic and survivalish than War Z.

                  [–]orange_kevin 12 points13 points ago

                  On paper its promising, but they have an alpha release coming this month and have less media from the game than WarZ... Hell, I'm intrigued, but not enough to part with $25 for something that's just a bunch of concept paintings and a reload animation with suspiciously weak looking wrists.

                  Edit: Further reading - up to 25,000 square kilometer world, with only a 16 player limit. That's going to be way too lonely. The graphics thus far aren't great, textures need a better designer, and all the zombies are in their underwear. For an alpha release, they're probably biting off more than they can chew, and not offering enough to warrant $25 price tag. Not impressed.

                  Edit 2: However, I will be willing to give it a try before I make my final decision. Not at $25 though.

                  [–]CressCrowbits 6 points7 points ago

                  They have an alpha release this month and the most recent thing they are showing are some weapon models and a single reload animation?

                  I don't think these developers can really be taken seriously.

                  [–]Setsuki 6 points7 points ago

                  I don't think people understand the original intention of an alpha anymore.

                  Alpha is "First FUNCTIONAL build". Beta is "First PLAYABLE build" (In traditional design methodologies).

                  What that means is that Alpha is SUPPOSED to be a slapped together mess that barely runs. And that's fine.

                  [–]CressCrowbits 16 points17 points ago

                  From the 8-9 years I've worked in the games industry my understanding is:

                  Alpha is 'complete' in terms of you being able to play through the entire game. It may be missing a shit ton of content and be full of bugs, but the game is completely there, of sorts.

                  Beta is 'complete' in terms of (virtually) all content being there, but bug fixes and minor gameplay tweaks will be required.

                  Alpha is NOT "we've got a few models, a crude landscape, one animation and a bunch of concept art". That's early prototyping - a good year or so from alpha in traditional development. Not one month.

                  [–]RoyAwesome 0 points1 point ago

                  I'd say that's the classical thought of alpha and beta when working on single player games.

                  While I can't disagree with you on experience, it seems to me like MMOs spend Alpha making their software functional and beta making their design functional.

                  load more comments (1 reply)

                    [–]thenuge26 2 points3 points ago

                    These are very concrete terms in the software development world, they don't change for games.

                    Alpha means not feature complete. Beta usually IS feature complete, and only bug fixes. If you use the sort of test-driven-development that has become popular starting with Minecraft (and continued with great success in Dayz) you can have 100% fully playable and stable alphas. Or you can have buggy, shitty, unplayable betas.

                    [–]leredditffuuu 0 points1 point ago

                    What that means is that Alpha is SUPPOSED to be a slapped together mess that barely runs. And that's fine.

                    That would work in the industry.

                    In the free2play and even subscription based games follow a totally different model.

                    The Alpha is essentially the stress test. The closed Beta is how you win over your die-hard customers and create early press. The open beta is for all intents and purposes what we would previously call the "final release" or "going gold."

                    The definitions are just all sorts of fucked due to this new market.

                    [–]Jethren 1 point2 points ago

                    Also, this Alpha seems more of a pre-order alpha. The beta is only 2 weeks away. Was one of those "pay more money to get the game 2 weeks early" things. It is going to need a long time in Beta, but they could turn it around.

                    [–]poiro 2 points3 points ago

                    At least this company has a not terrible reputation (sandswept studios, they made DETOUR which personally I found fun) the youtube channel has a few videos too which I accept doesn't show any decent gameplay but the music seems pretty good. It was going for $10 on kickstarter too which seems much more reasonable

                    [–]Aederrex 1 point2 points ago

                    Shit, I can't remember if I kickstarted that one.

                    Ninja edit: I did! I didn't realize their release date was so soon. Half the other things I've kickstarted in the last 6 months don't come out till this time next year at the earliest.

                    load more comments (2 replies)

                      [–]xthorgoldx -1 points0 points ago

                      The thing is, there's a line between "Building on a proof of concept" and "Copy that game because it's selling." From all the resources that they've released, it looks like a very hastily assembled mod from an existing game that's being passed as a standalone that rips mechanics straight from DayZ with a few gameplay tweaks to make it "original."

                      No, it's not that unique. However, it's not just similar to DayZ, it's a blatant copypasta in an attempt to cash in. The ToS ripoff only reinforces the fact that the game isn't taking itself seriously at all!

                      load more comments (13 replies)

                        [–]Aerithia1 5 points6 points ago

                        I don't really have a problem with War Z. DayZ showed it was a viable Idea. I'm waiting to see which product will, in the end, be better: DayZ or War Z.

                        load more comments (12 replies)

                          [–]ChicagoToad 348 points349 points ago

                          For fuck sake, this is beyond ridiculous. I don't understand how anyone could take these guys seriously.

                          [–]KanaKuroko 185 points186 points ago

                          I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they were just working on something when Day Z took the scene by storm.

                          But now? Nope. They're just trying to cash in. Tanked that little bit of faith. sigh

                          [–]mcilrain 64 points65 points ago

                          What would you expect from one of the creators of Big Rigs?

                          [–]boran_blok 51 points52 points ago

                          Got a source for that ? That would be hilarious.

                          [–]jeffnadirbarnes 358 points359 points ago

                          On the 21st of September, 2008, we were visited by Sergey Titov, who is (incorrectly) credited as the lead programmer for Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing. Sergey did not have any part in developing the game, he only licensed his game engine from TS Group to the Stellar Stone developers.

                          Source: http://www.yourewinner.com/index.php?action=stitovinterview

                          [–]eorl 26 points27 points ago

                          This needs to be upvoted to the top badly, so that one of the many false accusations can be disproved.

                          [–]Miltrivd 5 points6 points ago

                          Really, the least important one...

                          [–]Catechin 8 points9 points ago

                          As someone who played Big Rigs, it is the MOST important one.

                          I got about an hour and a half's worth of fun out of that game, and that's more than I can say about the second Bloodrayne movie.

                          [–]mimicthefrench 1 point2 points ago

                          It's one of the funniest games ever made, IMHO...though that's completely by mistake. The reviews for Big Rigs are hilarious.

                          [–]Nition 12 points13 points ago

                          Although in the interview they're paraphrasing there, he says he didn't have much input, not necessarily none, and he says he has the source for the game so he likely did something with it. Plus the fact that it's running on his engine. We don't know how much they changed it, but I doubt he gave them UDK-level stuff considering how Big Rigs turned out.

                          [–]Spekingur 12 points13 points ago

                          His input, however much it was, would most likely be related to the engine rather than gameplay.

                          load more comments (1 reply)

                            [–]mcilrain 10 points11 points ago

                            The source was a detailed and well-sourced comment on Reddit, but I don't have the URL for it.

                            Alternatively just googling "Sergey Titov" yields good results.

                            [–]NiteShadeX2 9 points10 points ago

                            The greatest worst videogame ever, so aweful its charming in a cosmically hilarious way.

                            Instead we'll get genericrap.

                            [–]Catheter 5 points6 points ago

                            Fun fact: The zombies in the Alpha of WarZ do not collide with fences. These guys really have trouble with creating collision.

                            [–]ralarb 15 points16 points ago

                            On one hand, collision detection is surprisingly hard. On the other hand, if you're going to have a paid beta on october 31, and actually call it a beta. It should probably at least be kind of working.

                            [–]Skitrel 1 point2 points ago

                            It's more like an alpha though the terminology seems to be used interchangably these days. Betas are supposed to be feature complete and nearly ready to ship, I don't imagine it being feature complete and ready to ship besides bug hunting. I imagine it being more of an alpha with continued development for a while.

                            [–]Harabeck 0 points1 point ago

                            On one hand, collision detection is surprisingly hard.

                            Well, more so collision response than detection. And yeah, that's hard, but it's also something almost every game has to deal with. There are very proven techniques and middleware all over the place for it.

                            [–]Maniacal 8 points9 points ago

                            Fun fact: Zombies in DayZ frequently run (ran? I haven't played it in many months) through doors and could attack through walls too.

                            [–]Eant 16 points17 points ago

                            Well, War Z is a standalone game and DayZ is a buggy pile of scripts on a buggy game.

                            [–]NovaDeez 12 points13 points ago

                            Exactly, Day Z was produced almost entirely by one person as a side project for a game that doesn't have a melee mechanic (that's why crow bars and axes need to be reloaded, all meleeing is is essentially a very short range gunshot). War Z is a game that a full team has supposedly been working on for longer than Day Z has existed.

                            [–]inok 5 points6 points ago

                            If you honestly believe that I have some beach front property I would like to sell you.

                            [–]Sterisk 0 points1 point ago

                            Not exactly.

                            [–]mitsuhiko 1 point2 points ago

                            We should judge both games after release. WarZ runs on an engine not designed for large scale environments and DayZ runs on an engine that was designed by people that find aircraft controls intuitive. Neither game probably has the "right" technology behind it so I think both games have yet to prove themselves.

                            [–]volar92 7 points8 points ago

                            Fun fact: the DayZ version you are currently playing is a FREE Alpha mod, created by one person as an experiment in his spare time. War Z is a full fletched commercial product made by a team of people.Compare standalone Day Z with War Z when it's released.

                            load more comments (1 reply)

                              [–]WhipIash -1 points0 points ago

                              Why are everyone saying Euro Truck Simulator is so horrible?

                              [–]elsee 5 points6 points ago

                              I think I could put this comment into any rage thread and get upvotes.

                              [–]Venjamin 0 points1 point ago

                              Were we supposed to? Just some guys who made a good mod.

                              [–]mista0sparkle 1 point2 points ago

                              To be fair, it could have just been 1 guy. 1 guy tasked with making sure their ToS were straight away... such a boring job for someone who wanted to get into making video games, right? Easy shortcut, no one will notice, right? Higher ups check and see it's ok legally, but don't think that he could have just ripped it off somewhere. We don't have to blame an entire studio for a shady practice, just find out exactly who is responsible and you'll know where the weaker cogs of development are.

                              [–]makeredditnotsuck 26 points27 points ago

                              why pay for lawyers when someone else already has?

                              [–]worldalpha_com 2 points3 points ago

                              They wouldn't be the first and they won't be the last.

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                                [–]Furyhunter 79 points80 points ago

                                Wow.

                                How unsurprising.

                                [–]LlamaSyndrome 49 points50 points ago

                                Can anyone else confirm this? Because if it is actually real...

                                [–]Rambomst 66 points67 points ago

                                This is legitimate, I just installed the game and made sure to check the ToS and it is in fact in there.

                                [–]LlamaSyndrome 1 point2 points ago

                                Looks like I'm not buying this game

                                [–]IAMBollock 24 points25 points ago

                                really? You've decided that now? Based on a copied ToS? This entire thread is ridiculous, I thought we cared about playing fun games... didn't realize we were all angry lawyers.

                                [–]efstajas 8 points9 points ago

                                I won't play it not because of the ToS, but because of the fact that they seem to copy every single piece of their game from somewhere. It's just their mentality.

                                [–]LlamaSyndrome 0 points1 point ago

                                My problem is that by copying the ToS, it shows a lack of care towards their IP. Also, with DayZ standalone just around the corner, what's the point of getting a game where they obviously do not care enough to create their own ToS.

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                                  [–]Scotty2cky 25 points26 points ago

                                  This game has had bad news written all over it from the start.

                                  [–]theandyman85 244 points245 points ago

                                  The head of the investment company behind WarZ is the ex-technical director of Riot Games and some members of Hammerpoint worked on League of Legends. Its not a far assumption to reach that probably one of these guys were one of the ones who wrote the TOS for LoL in the first place and didnt feel like making more work for themselves and copied it from their drive but forgot to change some things. Or just wanted to get it done and didnt bother with anything.

                                  EDIT: Apparently half the people that read this lack reading comprehension. I'm pointing out that they were probably lazy and just pasted their previous work. That =/= defending someone. At least not where I learned English.

                                  [–]Leybi 85 points86 points ago

                                  It's a bunch of lawyers who write ToS. Not the game devs. If they don't see the necessity of having a legal departement weeks prior release or simply hiring one guy to do this stuff (like every indie game studio, ever), they are complete amateurs.

                                  [–]theandyman85 45 points46 points ago

                                  In most cases smaller devs dont hire a single person to do take care of a TOS. I've worked on software thats never had a lawyer close to it more often than not nor hired someone to do it. What was the solution? Have someone in house write it up. Ever install a mod with a TOS? Freeware with a TOS? Mobile Apps with a TOS? You'd be surprised then if you took the time to look at the TOS for a lot of iPhone apps for the ones that bother, they are all pretty much the same.

                                  My point is that devs for a majority of the released software in the world (which a majority is either freeware or developed by small groups/single person) have written their own TOS. Yes, larger companies/devs that have something at stake to lose SHOULD be involving a lawer, especially if youre having someone pay for your software. I by all means feel that with the apparent money going toward this and the amount they are charging already up front during the beta that they should have at least a legal consultant on the payroll. I was not defending them, just giving a possible look into what happened. Do I think it was amateurish if thats what they did with a project this big? Of course but my point is that not "every indie game studio ever" hires someone to write a TOS. It's honestly not that hard.

                                  [–]ShadowDrgn 17 points18 points ago

                                  You can copy someone else's ToS, or you can pay a lawyer a few hundred bucks to copy someone else's ToS. Seriously, almost every sentence in these things is specifically worded to conform to centuries worth of contract case law. You can't just whip up your own version and expect it to hold up in court at all. By necessity, everyone's ToS is going to look extremely similar.

                                  [–]Potrebno 4 points5 points ago

                                  Thing is, copying a TOS is fine, they're written by bored lawyers and to actually write one yourself would be impossible (unless you're a lawyer and bored).

                                  But copying the TOS and then not even reading the damn thing once is just laziness.

                                  [–]theandyman85 5 points6 points ago

                                  Exactly my point.

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                                    [–]Mordeth 2 points3 points ago

                                    A company I worked for regularly underwent scheduled audits. This costs a LOT of money and effort. One time, the final report mentioned the name of a different company.

                                    [–]NotClever 2 points3 points ago

                                    Today we learn: Most professionals use copy-pasted form language for reports.

                                    [–]gigitrix -1 points0 points ago

                                    Maybe in first party triple-A land.

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                                      [–]NiteShadeX2 15 points16 points ago

                                      A simple control F search would fix all your problems. Toss it in a word processor, find and replace, today. This is laziness on the same level as a 5th grader copying a report and forgetting to change the author's name to his own.

                                      [–]krispwnsu 2 points3 points ago

                                      You walked into a hate thread. There is no hope in changing many opinions here.

                                      [–]theandyman85 19 points20 points ago

                                      Like I commented before, I'm not defending anyone. Apparently pointing out that someone is lazy and just copied and pasted their previous work is defending them.

                                      [–]krispwnsu 12 points13 points ago

                                      I'm not saying your defending. What you said makes logical sense, but in a thread were most of the comments are, "Wow this game is such a rip. 2/10 will not play," the odds of people seeing your point is stacked against you.

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                                          [–]EpicNade 66 points67 points ago

                                          Jesus christ. I knew these guys were jokers.

                                          [–]lycao 53 points54 points ago

                                          Biggest surprise in this: Someone actually reads the tos for games.

                                          [–]Twisted_Fate 20 points21 points ago

                                          Holy shit guys, alpha is out in 10 minutes, and we forgot to put TOS in ! -What do we do !? -Google it !

                                          [–]Vouk73 24 points25 points ago

                                          Wow, that's shady as hell.

                                          But something tells me that the whole game will absolutely bomb. So I'm kinda looking forward to that.

                                          (Unless they actually pull off a miracle and publish a decent game. Then yay I guess)

                                          [–]NiteShadeX2 17 points18 points ago

                                          I think it'll sucker in enough players to pull "a profit."

                                          There were huge masses of people who bought ArmaII on steam sale hearing the "wonderful stories" of DayZ, without hearing the nightmare complaints about...every major aspect. They'll flock to the "purdy grafix MMO" that is going to "fix all the problems." I doubt the game will have any staying power and will either go some F2P model or the devs decide the game no longer justifies operating costs and kill the beast.

                                          [–]Decoyrobot 3 points4 points ago

                                          I thought it was F2P and people buy guns and gear via the cash shop which they happen to be able to lose in game too when they die.

                                          [–]Dutch_Wilkerson 14 points15 points ago

                                          Nope, you pay for the WarZ, AND the cash shop

                                          [–]Decoyrobot 10 points11 points ago

                                          Really? double dipping on the pricing model too...wow...Whats the point in "survival" if theres always a merchant there whos just going to supply you up provided you want to cough a bit of cash for it?

                                          [–]eorl 2 points3 points ago

                                          Nope, no guns. Only select ammo, food, hats and two backpacks, and gun attachments. Everything that you buy in the marketplace can be looted when you die, meaning you will lose your bought items, especially if you play hardcore which means permanent death.

                                          [–]NiteShadeX2 2 points3 points ago

                                          Currently you need to buy the Beta. I think its the Minecraft model...with a cash shop.

                                          Pay for Beta/unfinished game at reduced price. Eventually game is finished (content added in regular updates), and sold at full value.

                                          Meanwhile theres a cash shop to handle real money purchases of ingame items.

                                          [–]Zexis 2 points3 points ago

                                          I wish I could've told all the DayZ players to NOT buy Arma just for DayZ. A lot of people went in thinking DayZ was some separate game, not a buggy, infantile mod. The only reason it thrived is because of how beautiful the idea of a game like DayZ is.

                                          And from what I've been hearing, Rocket and co. might be able to really knock it out of the park with the standalone. But we'll see.

                                          [–]NiteShadeX2 1 point2 points ago

                                          Well, I'm sure lots of those players hopefully discovered the awesome tactical simulation shooter that is ArmAII (If not a buggy one).

                                          Rockets got big dreams (disease, predators, underground bases, ect ect). I'm looking forward to what he & co can do, but I'm mostly concerned with the apparent limitations of the engine. The scale is almost "too much" and I think the simple things like making a better inventory, optimizing the game to run better, reducing lag, ect ect ect will prove to be far greater challenges than adding new content.

                                          I can only imagine the work load on a server trying to manage 200+ players actions, dealing with hundreds of item spawns, thousands of square miles of terrain, and the ai for a few hundred zombies, on top of normal activity like maintaining connection quality between players.

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                                            [–]Rayzn 27 points28 points ago

                                            Did anyone read the TOS for league of lengends? it isnt the same as this...

                                            [–]Spekingur 54 points55 points ago

                                            So what you are saying is that they put the link for League of Legends in there just to fuck with people?

                                            [–]NotClever 19 points20 points ago

                                            Or they took the TOS from LoL, modified it for their game, and missed this link in their proof reading.

                                            [–]Spekingur 9 points10 points ago

                                            In which case your username would be an appropiate combination of words.

                                            [–]WSAENOTSOCK 101 points102 points ago

                                            WarZ more like DayZynga

                                            [–]xenoposeidon 25 points26 points ago

                                            Please go back to /r/gaming.

                                            [–]MestR 37 points38 points ago

                                            SO BRAVE

                                            [–]jk0520 3 points4 points ago

                                            This really doesn't matter. Most law firms have a bank of pre-made contracts that they use. These contracts are essentially forms which the lawyer fills in the blanks with the names of the parties. Of course, a good lawyer will add and subtract provisions, etc. to make the contract better tailored to the party's needs. Every lawyer does this. Rarely are contracts drawn up from a blank word document.

                                            Most people in this thread seem to think this is plagiarism or something, but its actually common industry practice. It wouldn't surprise me if they hired the same lawyer or just borrowed the contract's language. It poses zero problems in terms of theft or plagiarism, there is no ownership of contract language like there is for essay writing. It may pose a problem to shareholders or those with an interest in the company because the ToS won't cover and protect them if it hasn't been conformed to their project specifically. However, I'm sure the contract has broad enough language that most important items are included.

                                            I'm in law school, not a lawyer, but this is pretty standard knowledge in the legal field.

                                            [–]MaximusQuackhandle 2 points3 points ago

                                            Stop posting about these cunts, it's just free publicity for their less than original game.

                                            [–]heddnoiz 29 points30 points ago

                                            How big of a deal is this honestly?

                                            [–]ChickenOverlord 69 points70 points ago

                                            There could be some (very minor) legal repercussions, but what really matters is that it says a hell of a lot about the level of care and detail that the developers put into things.

                                            [–]romnempire 16 points17 points ago

                                            minor? doesn't this technically mean people who've already agreed to this TOS aren't bound to the developer, but rather to Riot, so users are free to do whatever they want without the threat of suit for breach of contract?

                                            [–]EmpyrealisticDawn 5 points6 points ago

                                            Thats a really good question and id like someone to answer it.

                                            [–]ChickenOverlord 2 points3 points ago

                                            Since Riot never "offered" the ToS to the WarZ players in the first place, it wouldn't be binding on those who agreed to it (as far as Riot is concerned). The potential legal issues I was referring to are between Riot and Hammerpoint for using what is likely copyrighted material (the ToS) without permission.

                                            Source: I'm a law school dropout, so I might be a bit wrong.

                                            [–]EmpyrealisticDawn 0 points1 point ago

                                            Ah okay. I see what you mean. Thankyou sir.

                                            [–]NotClever 0 points1 point ago

                                            It's pretty unlikely that they'd get much copyright on a contract, since contract language is functional and limited in creative choice by necessity, but the one exception to that is verbatim copying (which would even then be hard to show if they hadn't left a reference to Riot in there), so it's maybe possible that Riot could go after them. Not much point to it, though.

                                            [–]s90-CustomsAndExcise -1 points0 points ago

                                            It's binding between the company offering the service and the person who agrees to the ToS for that service. A contract will be rendered void if something important has failed to be agreed upon (e.g. 'there has been no meeting of the minds'), in this case it's quite clear that agreeing to this copied ToS was for WarZ considering how it is a prompt that appears next to that game.

                                            Companies copy ToS and contracts generally all the time - standard form contracts are the best example. This is because it allows for legal consistency that assists the consumer (they are more familiar with it), the company (they stick to what is at the time legally within their rights -- until it is challenged) and the legal system (by decreasing the likelihood of suits and thus freeing up judicial resources).

                                            [–]heddnoiz 10 points11 points ago

                                            I don't think it really says anything, not many people really hold Hammerpoint Interactive to much esteem anyway. If the games good, I'll buy it - copy pasta isn't going to stop me.

                                            [–]NiteShadeX2 -1 points0 points ago

                                            Thats good for you, but most of us cant put faith into a project whose own creators fail at basic copy paste. Of those people who would overlook such a problem, how many are still willing to pay good money for (a beta) and the promise the game will eventually be finished.

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                                                [–]Santoryu 11 points12 points ago

                                                They also copied and pasted the entire game. No biggie.

                                                [–]sndzag1 18 points19 points ago

                                                Definitely should ignore this and buy The Dead Linger now.

                                                /not a developer for TDL I swear

                                                /I am a liar, I am definitely a developer of TDL

                                                [–]EncasedShadow 28 points29 points ago

                                                Should rename it The Lingering Dead, so your sequel can be called The Lingering Dead Return. TL;DR!

                                                [–]DanielTaylor 4 points5 points ago

                                                Came here to say the same. Seems to be the most promising and realistic game so far.

                                                I really hope it doesn't include as many guns as the others... or make the ammunition very limited, because, after all, It's not supposed to be a shooter.

                                                Also, attacking other players should be a challenge which can severely backfire on you, so that you think twice before engaging in combat... it also avoids having people gun you down only for the "lulz".

                                                [–]MrRGnome 3 points4 points ago

                                                Only because you're shameless.

                                                [–]sndzag1 11 points12 points ago

                                                Being shameless has its benefits, especially when you're an indie dev.

                                                [–]Matzerath 3 points4 points ago

                                                Tell me at some point early on it was called 'The Dead Loiter'.

                                                [–]sndzag1 21 points22 points ago

                                                If it helps, we never have considered putting the letter Z in the title.

                                                [–]StormShadow13 1 point2 points ago

                                                That's all it needs!!! But actually i haven't even heard of this game before and your shameless plug has made me consider preordering it. I have one question though, will the game offer controller support? I have a wired xbox controller for my PC and prefer that. Ok i lied, 2 questions. So the game has a full single player and multiplayer experience?

                                                [–]eyre 0 points1 point ago

                                                I have been watching TDL for a while. I will order in a heartbeat as soon as you guys show me some in game footage that realizes some of the big ideas you are working towards. I want to believe! I just need more than concept art, renders, and an empty alpha terrain video to justify it to myself.

                                                [–]sndzag1 0 points1 point ago

                                                We are right now crunching hard to get our early Alpha build released on time, and a gameplay video should come before that.

                                                [–]DutchmanDavid 1 point2 points ago

                                                And not advertising for The Dead Linger subreddit? tisk tisk :p

                                                [–]sndzag1 1 point2 points ago

                                                I am now.

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                                                  [–]finalej 1 point2 points ago

                                                  tbh ppl from /r/leagueoflegends just thought it was funny not a damning move on them.

                                                  [–]spamalamadingdong 0 points1 point ago

                                                  I like in the wordpress TOS (I think, it was some website like that), one of the points has a link titled "If you are reading this, here is a treat" and it links you to a picture of bacon.

                                                  [–]DutchmanDavid 0 points1 point ago

                                                  I vaguely remember a ToS where there was a single line of explanation per paragraph. I think it was from Mozilla, but I can't find it.

                                                  Anyway, I found this website, which holds pretty swell explanations for the major websites out there. Just scroll down to see the list of websites.

                                                  [–]lolpancakeslol 0 points1 point ago

                                                  This game had bad news written all over it since it was announced.

                                                  [–]KarateRobot 2 points3 points ago

                                                  99% of companies I've worked for just copy their terms of service boilerplate from some other site. It's rampant.

                                                  But, of the sites that have a lawyer draft their terms, almost all of the text of that ToS comes from a form book anyway, with just a few sentences added or changed. This isn't an excuse or anything, I just mean that a regular person would never know the difference between an 'original' ToS and one you'd cribbed (and altered properly).

                                                  It's sloppy of them (The War Z) not to have at least read their document thoroughly, but it's not like this is an unprecedented legal scandal that will rock the court system.

                                                  The real issue is the supposed necessity of including legal boilerplate that is so unimportant that you can't even be bothered to look it over, let alone expect your users to, and the ridiculous legal fallacy that clicking the 'agree' button on a document like this signifies anything meaningful.

                                                  [–]Diggus_Bickus 4 points5 points ago

                                                  It's almost as if "OP Productions" were some kind of faggots?

                                                  [–]august_nox 2 points3 points ago

                                                  Makes sense. Copying other people's work and ideas seems to be the go-to for these guys.

                                                  [–]jontce 5 points6 points ago

                                                  allan please add terms & conditions

                                                  [–]Agurk 5 points6 points ago

                                                  I don't speak legalese, but right after it says "incorporated herein by referance" implying that it's pointing to another game's EULA as comparison? I dunno. Seems strange, but further down in the text it actually says "www.thewarz.com" and so on, so I don't think it's just copy pasted, but still... strange. But again, frankly, what does it matter?

                                                  [–]reparadocs 15 points16 points ago

                                                  It could be a find and replace that didn't catch the one league of legends link

                                                  [–]Yugios 3 points4 points ago

                                                  I think "incorporated herein by reference" simply means that the OP Productions Terms of Use (which appear to be a legal document separate from the WarZ Legal Agreement) will be referred from that point on within the Legal Agreement as the "Terms of Use".

                                                  Also note that it states "You must also: (i) read, understand and agree to the OP Productions Terms of Use" and then links to League of Legends Terms of Use. SO I would say this certainly appears to be a copy-paste from League of Legends EULA.

                                                  [–]jk0520 0 points1 point ago

                                                  It's just defining the terms used in the contract. I haven't read this ToS but that's what it usually means. The phrase means that it is including these things in the contract and under its provisions by referencing to them.

                                                  Source: I'm in law school.

                                                  [–]Nox155 3 points4 points ago

                                                  I really don't expect War Z to be anything more than a quick cash-grab attempt fueled by all the hype about Day-Z.

                                                  The game will most likely be a mediocre rip-off that'll die in a couple of months due to the uninspired and incompetent devs. From what I've seen, many of the models are copied from some other games, which really doesn't help make an impression.

                                                  [–]madMadness 0 points1 point ago

                                                  This, a game that is still in "early" development and devs already need to copy every single aspect of their game from somewhere else, that is not good at all, it simply shows that they have no ideas or inspiration.

                                                  I bet that DayZ's standalone will come after this game dies, so it can stop ripping off its ideas.

                                                  [–]ChrisColumbus 3 points4 points ago

                                                  raises hand and firmly places on forehead

                                                  [–]Kalfira 5 points6 points ago

                                                  I don't know about anyone else, but I think this is it for me. I was initially intrigued to see which group does it better. But now I don't give a crap. This sort of shameless rip off makes me loose all respect for them. Copying someone's general idea for a game is one thing, copying verbatim their code / legal information is just... it's plagiarism.

                                                  [–]weks 7 points8 points ago

                                                  They copied a game so why not copy a TOS as well?

                                                  [–]iiSaviour 1 point2 points ago

                                                  Now what would be funny, is that somewhere in the LoL TOS it mentioned not stealing their TOS.

                                                  [–]thrangisthered 1 point2 points ago

                                                  Why would you read this?

                                                  [–]gamevne 1 point2 points ago

                                                  The game is actually kind of fun. It is adequate enough for an obvious ripoff. I was expecting a complete piece of trash. Still, can't wait for DayZ standalone

                                                  [–]obliterationn -1 points0 points ago

                                                  what kind of bumbling idiot asshat would you have to be to make such a dumb mistake? If you're going to copy like that AT LEAST ctrl+f "league of legends" and change it

                                                  [–]thebbman 0 points1 point ago

                                                  You know I went to school to be a graphic designer. We had a couple classes about business law. One thing I still remember is that our teacher who was actually a prosecutor for the state, extremely cool guy I might add, he said that if the legal jargon fits for what you want to go ahead and copy it. Just make sure you make the necessary changes that fit your needs.

                                                  [–]kupopoo 0 points1 point ago

                                                  Lazy job on their part...

                                                  OR

                                                  Perhaps The War Z was actually created by Riot Games (Conspiracy!)

                                                  [–]AloeRP 0 points1 point ago

                                                  Between The Dead Linger and the new Day Z stand alone, I'm pretty sure I'll have my fill of zombie games.

                                                  [–]TheHappyPeanut -2 points-1 points ago

                                                  I have been excited to play WarZ since it was originally announced earlier in the year. There were times that I was skeptical about the entire venture simply due to the amount of time and resources the development team had to create this game. Toward the end, however, as videos began coming out, I was a bit relieved.

                                                  I have only played the game for about ten minutes because of bugs and crashing, but my initial impressions are this:

                                                  1. I did not notice the "League of Legends" link in the EULA because, like most Americans, I rarely read such things. With that being said, it's not a big deal for a company to use the same EULA as another company, but only when authorized by the owner of the content; in this case, the owner would likely be Riot Games. Furthermore, it is extremely appalling that they failed to proof-read their policies.

                                                  2. Someone claimed that features in WarZ were ripped from other games. I saw a screenshot of the weapon attachments function for Crysis and WarZ. Yes, they are very similar. But there is no need to turn this into an Apple situation where people are constantly crying because someone was inspired by a feature. There are MANY games that create similar features as other games and it's going to happen regardless of what you or I say.

                                                  I think WarZ will be a good game. It'll just take time. With that being said, I am also looking forward to playing the DayZ stand-alone.

                                                  [–]Hostail 1 point2 points ago

                                                  Anyone tried to compare the two terms and conditions with http://www.comparemyfiles.com/ ? I really wanna know if they really have copied and pasted it all. I'm at school so I can't check myself :/

                                                  [–]LegatoSkyheart -1 points0 points ago

                                                  Makes me actually want to Read ALL Terms of Agreements. I wonder if they ALL copy from League of Legends.

                                                  [–]Qwibbles 1 point2 points ago

                                                  I am actually really looking forward to this release just to see how it fares. Should be an entertaining outcome no matter which way it turns out.

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