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top 200 commentsshow 500

[–]LS_DJ 40 points41 points ago

Well that's just like...your opinion...man

[–]3DBeerGoggles 20 points21 points ago

Hey man, this subreddit really ties the place together.

[–]LS_DJ 10 points11 points ago

Fuckin' a

[–]mangybum 1 point2 points ago

You're obviously not a golfer.

[–]hat678 2 points3 points ago

nobody fucks with the jesus

[–]regal360 0 points1 point ago

Except for God.

[–]jackzander 1 point2 points ago

Pardon me, sir. You seem to have typo on your boot.

[–]JamieHugo 37 points38 points ago

At one point, I invited two nice Jehovah's Witness ladies into my home. I made them tea and muffins, talked with them every week, and let them speak about their views. Their views, however, are fucking insane. They told me that dinosaurs died off because they served their purpose: stomping the land flat. I made my case politely, but criticized their beliefs, and made it apparent that I did not respect crazy nonsense. They did not come back once they realized I was not going to come to their church, and that's when I realized they were there on business, as much as I had been friendly and polite. We had each talked about our lives, and talked about a lot more than just religion, and I even liked having them over every week. They just stopped showing up when they thought I was a lost cause, however. They were both wrong, and assholes.

I lost every one of my Christian friends during college when I stopped going to youth groups and bible studies (but kept going to the socializing aspects like poker games and disc golf) because I let them know I was an atheist, but didn't argue or try to make an issue out of it. They didn't even show up to my wedding (which was completely secular). I have a friend whose family doesn't even talk to her anymore because she left her church.

I may sound like an asshole when I call deeply-held bullshit "bronze-age mythology," or question religious hypocrisy, but I've never been an asshole to anyone over their beliefs. I still get along well with my middle school youth pastor, even though we spar over religion and politics a lot, because he recognizes that his faith comes second to being a decent, friendly human being.

Here's me being a polite atheist: religion is made up of many good-meaning, regular people. Religion gives them a nice, warm feeling; it gives a sense of hope and meaning and direction. They like to socialize, and the religious messages they pay attention to are harmless proverbs that they often find very comforting and helpful.

They are often led by very loud, ignorant, power-hungry, narcissistic, greedy people who spread hatred, bigotry, divisiveness, sectarian exclusivity, and a host of other evils. People take these as tenets of their faith, to be joined together with that happy, comfortable feeling, and reassuring moral lessons they get. They often choose to believe incredibly ignorant and silly things out of the sincere belief that they have to tie their ridiculous beliefs with the comfort and solace they get out of a personal religious practice. In many places around the world this leads to abuse, authoritarianism, violence, and excuses for wars.

I don't want to believe in the things I think are silly, and no one should want to harm me, or anyone else, or impede our liberty, because of their religious beliefs. I don't want government having anything to do with anyone's religious beliefs.

I will sometimes mock the religious beliefs of the majority when they are the basis of discrimination against a minority.

These things don't make me an asshole, even if no one likes me after hearing my opinion.

[–]Blithon 4 points5 points ago

For what it's worth, you sound like a good person. I have taken much more offense to people disowning me and my friends than you. I hope one day to develop your patience and empathy.

I would say though, that while there are many "good" religious people, and even the "bad" ones are usually decent or misguided people, the overwhelming negative influences of religion have been poisoning very critical elements of society, and religious people (good and bad) have enforced it. Creationism taught in schools, homophobia, and the conflicts in Middle East are the first ones that come to mind. I would even suggest that the extremists are even responsible for this anti-intellectual movement, though it seems more political than religious.

If the religious can maintain a religion without causing so much mayhem, I would have no real desire to even fight it. But all it takes is one honor kill or one person getting unfairly disowned, and I remember exactly why I ever hated religion in the first place.

[–]Peisistratos0 2 points3 points ago

I don't know why people keep calling it bronze age mythology. Most of the old testament was written during the iron age.

[–]JamieHugo 0 points1 point ago

It was most likely first written down in the iron age, but the myths were certainly oral traditions long before they were "scripture," and I don't think the whole talking snake/polytheism/global flood thing changed much over the years.

[–]rafeekistick 1 point2 points ago

So then what makes them assholes? Because you don't like them after they expressed their opinion? Everybody has a justification for everything they do just like you.

[–]nondescriptuser 35 points36 points ago

My favorite part is how religions mount huge political campaigns to deny people basic human rights, and somehow atheists are assholes for criticizing the erroneous beliefs that lead to these miscarriages of justice.

[–]paranode 5 points6 points ago

Just a guess but this is probably more directed at the people who scour Facebook and other conversational mediums for a chance to shit on religious people even if they are not discussing something related to 'denying human rights'.

[–]johnny107 2 points3 points ago

Being an asshole in your personal life in response to politicians being assholes does not make you any less of an asshole.

[–]elbruce 0 points1 point ago

OK, I think I understand what's going on here:

"Being an asshole" = "Advocating for your position."

Yes. Everybody in America who cares about anything are assholes. Now that the word has no meaning, can we quit complaining about it?

[–]johnny107 0 points1 point ago

There's a differance between "advocating your position" and just being a complete douche who looks down on others.

Nobody knows what happens after we die. As far as I'm concerned, anybody who feels the need to throw a shitfit every time somebody disagrees with them on something as meaningless as life after death, I get to call them an asshole.

[–]elbruce 0 points1 point ago

There's a differance between "advocating your position" and just being a complete douche who looks down on others.

Not according to the critics of /r/atheism.

Go ahead, show me an example of how you would make the case to a religious person that women should have the right to their own bodies, without them calling you a dick.

Nobody knows what happens after we die.

Nobody knows that anything happens after we die. Some people pretend to.

anybody who feels the need to throw a shitfit every time somebody disagrees with them on something

What about when they try to take your rights away? Or enshrine imaginary bullshit into the legal code in your country? Or kill you? At what exact point do they cross the line before you're willing to "throw a shitfit?" Or more accurately, advocate your position with logic and get accused of "throwing a shitfit?"

Look, you calling me an asshole is throwing a shitfit. Because we disagree about the best method for engaging religious people.

[–]4dseeall 0 points1 point ago

"Fight fire with fire"

[–]staninja 0 points1 point ago

Even if religions do not cause someone harm, I still think that there is nothing wrong with making fun of them. If someone told you that they followed the religion of The Lord of the Rings it would be just as credible as world religions and nobody cares if you ridicule it. Religion gets a special treatment due to its popularity and age. You would also happily ridicule a cult but no one would care

[–]Bannanahatman 0 points1 point ago

thats not the point this post was making. when 15 to 25 year old atheists run around online looking for arguments so they can call people delusional or living in a fantasy...whether they are right or not, they are being assholes. Its exactly what so many are unhappy about with christians. Its forcing your beliefs on someone else. Im an atheist, but when i see a post that someone is praying for something, im not going to attack them for it.

[–]dreugeworst 75 points76 points ago

Well.. let's see what's on the front page of r/atheism as of writing:

  • 1 - Someone's negative experience with religious people, who acted outrageously
  • 2 - A funny window sticker
  • 3 - Comparison of accomplishments of science and religion over the years [fixed]
  • 4 - Comparison of accomplishments of science and religion over the years
  • 5 - This post
  • 6 - Complaint about Newsweek posting story about scientist converting to religion
  • 7 - Funny post comparing scientific accuracy of creationists and Dino eggs porridge
  • 8 - Unattributed quote about what would happen to religion if humanity had to start over
  • 9 - Photo of protestor saying kittens are pretty swell
  • 10 - Quote from 'Night' about inaction of god during WW2
  • 11 - Quote from Peter Walker about the arrogance of religious thinking (abrahamic religion at least it seems)
  • 12 - Comic mocking the Catholic Church
  • 13 - News story about PA lawmaker not saying U.S. pledge of allegiance
  • 14 - Facebook comment with objectionable parts of the bible, in response to claim to believe all of bible
  • 15 - Photo of misogynistic protestor, taking his misogyny from the bible
  • 16 - Photo of Dana Rohrabacher, mocking his belief that global warming is caused by Dinosaur farts
  • 17 - Comparison of accomplishments of science and religion over the years [fixed, armenian genocide etc]
  • 18 - Picture of facebook call to post the U.S. pledge of allegiance including the 'under god' bit
  • 19 - Picture of statement about religion in Barnes and Nobles restroom
  • 20 - Blog post about religious right attacking astronaut for being gay
  • 21 - Picture of sarcastic facebook comment about a tarot card reader
  • 22 - Coffee with Jesus comic
  • 23 - Picture of teapot Car sticker
  • 24 - Picture of church message (banana got skinned)

So, which of these make r/atheism such assholes? I would say only 17 and perhaps 14 qualify: 17 because we all know religion wasn't the only factor involved in those conflicts, although it certainly provided justification and lost its moral high ground in doing so, and 14 because there was no real need to respond to that post - but then, why post if you're not willing to get called out on your words?

As for the rest, some posts have nothing to do with atheism (nr. 9 anyone?), but the rest make a point about why a lot of people are atheists: religion is used to justify a lot of things that are bad for society. Be that ignoring scientific truths, harassing innocent people, or even just encouraging very sloppy thinking (in the case of the newsweek story). Nobody is claiming that this is all there is to religion. But you have to ask yourself: are the sporadic donations from churches, when the church itself doesn't need repairs, and the comforting of people who don't want to live with uncertainty really worth the other effects religions have on society?

If not, then why are the people here assholes for pointing this out?

[edit: reddit swallowed my formatting]

[–]awesomechemist 7 points8 points ago

To be fair, the quality of this sub has improved dramatically since they ousted juliebean as a mod and replaced her with jij

It still has it's problems, but at least it is mildly tolerable now...

[–]6times9is42 11 points12 points ago

For those who don't know of juliebean's bravery.

[–]Raborn 8 points9 points ago

I just don't get what's wrong here. At dad's funeral and he was misrepresented, why are people calling that "brave" in the pejorative? Was there something else I missed beyond this?

[–]SoepWal 8 points9 points ago

The /r/atheism comments section is not populated by people who like /r/atheism, it's populated by frontpagers who come to complain about /r/atheism and mock atheists.

Basically, it'd be like if 2XChromosomes was primarily populated by mens rights advocates who downvote everything and talk about how 2x is a manhating circlejerk.

Anything an atheist does aside from smiling bashfully and pretending to be religious to fit in will be mocked. You're not to be seen or heard; stay in the closet.

[–]Piratiko 1 point2 points ago

I really get the feeling that if he'd told that story in a more dramatic and eloquent way, but the elements stayed the same, he'd be showered in upvotes and still a mod.

[–]superdago 2 points3 points ago

Isn't that just a roundabout way of saying "I really get the feeling that if he wasn't such an asshole he'd be more appreciated"?

[–]Blithon 4 points5 points ago

There are . . . mods in r/atheism now?

[–]hat678 8 points9 points ago

"So, which of these make r/atheism such assholes?"

the part where people are discussing the fact that religion might not be true. . .

[–]thedoodle 1 point2 points ago

I just don't see how it's offensive at all to share your opinion on religion no matter what they may be. Discussing and asking questions about someones faith should not be taboo, it seems only natural to me that you should be able to defend, discuss and explain your opinions. Not to take offense by a simple question.

[–]bleedingheartsurgery 2 points3 points ago

On a sub called r/atheism? Lol

[–]BartyParty 5 points6 points ago

I think churches are assholes for discussing that religion is true. How is that even a valid suggestion? It's the definition of the subreddit.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points ago

Is he being sarcastic or calling atheists assholes for discussing their reasons?

[–]wonkydonky 1 point2 points ago

17 because we all know religion wasn't the only factor involved in those conflicts

For the Irish thing, I'm pretty sure religion was just about the only factor involved.

[–]CyrusVanNuys 5 points6 points ago

Well that's just a blatant misunderstanding of the conflict. Yes the origin of the conflict resides from the restriction of civil rights imposed on a great swath of the Irish population targeted primarily due to their Catholic alignment but it has since grown well beyond that and now the driving force of conflict is the diametrically opposed positions of rejection or loyalty to the British establishment. While sectarian violence is still common it is mainly among unaffiliated groups (aka thugs with axes to grind) rather than any of the major players. In fact many factions of the IRA are openly secular and simply target those they see as loyal to Britain. Also Sinn Fein, while commonly associated with Catholicism, are known to be in opposition to the Vatican in a number of ways including gay rights and abortion issues.

[–]finnlizzy 3 points4 points ago

If by the 'Irish Thing' you mean the troubles up North, then religion wasn't the only thing. It was a major part. The Loyalists were more one sided with religion, because they were very right-wing protestants. While the Republicans, although mainly Catholic, had many Protestants in their ranks, mainly left-wing.

[–]theMoonRulesNumber1 5 points6 points ago

Claiming that the Irish Independence movement is a religious thing is equivalent to saying the US Revolutionary War was about religious freedom. Both were about freedom from British Imperialism, which included (but was in no way limited to) religious freedom, but the main point was that people have the right to choose how they live.

[–]BartyParty 2 points3 points ago

This reply will negate OP's sentiments everytime. Thanks for taking the time to type it out, it is the most logical approach to this issue.

[–]g0aky 0 points1 point ago

I don't necessarily think the OP meant the posts themselves, but rather the discussions in some of them?

[–]bleedingheartsurgery 0 points1 point ago

Thank you for posting this. Four times this week I have asked ppl to show me shitty r/atheism posts, whenever they complained about it. I never got a response on either of them.

[–]chadridesabike 12 points13 points ago

I can't stand religious bullshit, fuck me right?

[–]bambam182 3 points4 points ago

i'd say you calling people wrong for not believing in your god is an asshole thing to do. If you truely believe that god exists, why would you even go to r/atheism? just to post something on the grounds of being an asshole? that in turn makes you the asshole!

[–]lankist 188 points189 points ago

Within feminist circles this is known as the tone argument. The "you attract more bees with honey" bullshit.

The fact of the matter is that, when your very existence is dogmatically considered an affront against faith, it does not matter which words you put in what order: you are always going to be told to be quieter or nicer. So why the fuck be nice about it to begin with if the mere denial of the premises of faith is deemed by society-at-large as being rude? Nobody ever accomplished anything by being meek and mild. And if you say Jesus, you missed the parts where he advocated sedition.

See, here's the problem with the "your tone is what's wrong" argument: It's a thought-terminating cliche. People don't say that because you've actually been offensive. People say that so they can ignore what you've said without giving it any consideration. It's not about the fact that you've been loud, it's about the fact that the other side will fabricate any excuse to call you an asshole just so they can say your words have no merit.

[–]justaprimate 170 points171 points ago

You're not wrong lankist, you're just an asshole

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]Trizlo 13 points14 points ago

Where exactly are you pulling these numbers from? Is there a chart or something I can consult where the most bitched about subs are put in order?

[–]averyv 10 points11 points ago

see: OP's asshole

[–]LocalMadman 24 points25 points ago

it's the #1 most criticized subreddit.

I think that's SRS.

[–]LordRuler 2 points3 points ago

SRS? ShitRedditSays? (i'm actually curious as to what you are referring to; I'm new here)

[–]LocalMadman 5 points6 points ago

Yes, ShitRedditSays.

[–]HiFiWiFiSciFi 3 points4 points ago

Basically a bunch of stereotypical redditors pretending they're better than you for being a stereotypical redditor.

Or to put it another way /r/bestof only filled with pricks.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]tEnPoInTs 9 points10 points ago

There is nothing subtle about when SRS swarms you for something, no matter how innocuous. In internet volume terms, they are loud as fuck.

[–]bleedingheartsurgery 13 points14 points ago

Do you know how many ppl post in, and like the sub? They just don't counter argue when ppl complain about it. Why do you think the posts get Upvoted so much?

[–]Aitioma 8 points9 points ago

Seriously, I find the criticism against /r/atheism ridiculous. The subreddit obviously loves critique against itself. It gets accepted and taken seriously.

People complaining about /r/atheism have become a source for karma. I'm pretty sure that a lot of critical posts are simply there to karmawhore.

[–]SanityInAnarchy 13 points14 points ago

If that's actually true, sure.

The problem is that Reddit is not entirely atheists. There are atheists who unsubscribe from /r/atheism, and atheists who complain loudly about how they had to unsubscribe from /r/atheism.

Are they statistically significant? How do they compare to the people who have been deconverted by /r/atheism, or the people who find a community in /r/atheism denied them by a real life in which they're surrounded by people who will disown them at the first hint that they don't believe?

I mean, the only reason people can still bitch about it is that it's a default sub. The only reason it's a default sub is that it's so popular. And if it's really that popular, it must be doing something right -- if all the Reddit atheists truly hated /r/atheism so much, then how does it still have over a million subscribers?

[–]WalrusTits 9 points10 points ago

That's because people like feeling superior in comments, the upvotes tell the true story of what reddit is really about.

Atheism has become mainstream, it's not unique or fringe anymore especially online, so when you need to feel superior in some way and atheism was the only thing you had going for you, you now label yourself a "tolerant" atheist that's far superior to all these sagan worshiping cretins who of course literally think every single christian is a moron and every single atheist is smart.

[–]Aitioma 8 points9 points ago

The mostly young, atheist, reddit population, is repulsed by /r/atheism

It's obviously not, considering this is one of the most active subreddit that has actually become a default subrredit with millions of readers.

I'm sorry but /r/atheism isn't a default subreddit for no reason.

It's one of the most frequented subreddits with one of the highest amount of active subscribers.

What is even your point? People criticize the subreddit? Why? Because they are offended by the truth? Because people make fun of bullshit? Because people are condescending towards bigots and ignorant people? I'm sorry, but I think you should simply deal with it.

There is no problem with attraction. There are over a million subscribers and it's one of the most successful subreddits. Yes, there's a lot of critique but almost non of it is reasonable nor very original.

and even gets pissed off at you seemingly...

Well, what's their reason to get pissed? The critique I see posed against /r/atheism is always the same, not very insightful nor original and generally rather irrelevant. All I see is people getting pissed off at people for making a valid point. Get over it. The problem isn't that atheists are "repulsive" or people on this subreddit are offensive. The problem is that you get offended and propagate the message that criticizing religion and making fun of idiots is wrong. I'm sorry, but I think the only problem here is your anti-intellectual mindset.

[–]ortcutt 21 points22 points ago

I'm young, atheist, and a redditor and I love /r/atheism. You shouldn't pretend to speak for me.

[–]gaelicsteak 9 points10 points ago

Yeah, but a really high number of redditors are still atheists/agnostics. Enjoying /r/atheism is not the same thing as subscribing to some of its beliefs.

[–]Aitioma 1 point2 points ago

What "beliefs" do you believe can you subscribe to here?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

As reddit has exploded in popularity so has the hatred across it for /r/atheism. The reddit user demographics are changing as the site gets more popular. I doubt reddit is "mostly atheist" anymore, if it ever was.

[–]LSUTTONIII 34 points35 points ago

I once proposed Jesus could've been black with dreaded hair and a gold grill, and I got detention... Fuck Christian schools

[–]eJaglavak 5 points6 points ago

Shh, crazy. Everyone knows that Jesus was white like wheat, with golden long hair. I mean, it's not like he is from the Middle East or something.

I don't think that he was black though. Not many black jews out there. Still, nobody knows for sure. Interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus

[–]MxM111 0 points1 point ago

If you want to get an idea how Jews looked back then, looked at modern arabs. They were at the time essentially the same semitic people/tribes (just different religion). Jews had obviously Jewdaism, and Arabs had whatever they had at the time, probably multiple religions and there were not called Arabs either. Same people as Jews, different tribes, similar genetics.

Due to historical reasons, Jews were emigrated to different countries, including Europe, where they have mixed with local population, so the way they look changed significantly, but the tribes that become Arabs in future, did not move all over the world, and continue to live roughly in the same area, keeping their genetic composition more intact.

So, from genetics point of view Arabs are more Jewish than Jews. (Which both Arabs and Jews would never mention)

[–]akajefe 0 points1 point ago

Yes and no. There were a significant number of Arabs that emigrated out of the Arabian Peninsula during/after the Arab conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries. Unlike the Jews, the Arabs did not return so the Arabian Peninsula remains pretty homogeneous.

[–]Evan5050 4 points5 points ago

Not many black jews out there.

What about the Ethiopian Jews? Also, Obama's brother-in-law.

[–]IdontReadArticles 10 points11 points ago

They would be filed under not that many.

[–]LSUTTONIII -1 points0 points ago

I said that because of in Science we learned that dark skin people had melanin so they could endure intense heat in places like Africa and the Middle East. Blue-eyed blondes were more prevalent in Nordic/colder hemispheres.

So I was like if Jesus was born in the Middle East then he must've been black! Then Turned him Into A stereotype.

For the record: I'm black

[–]G_G_Janitor 0 points1 point ago

Jesus was black because moses had to be black thus the whole tribe that crossed the dead sea were black

[–]bleedingheartsurgery 4 points5 points ago

Thank you for this. It's exactly how i feel, I've just never been able to articulate it.

[–]Caziban 4 points5 points ago

Wow, that was fucking beautiful.

[–]DollarsThanSense 11 points12 points ago

Oh yeah, well I'm not going to aknowledge any of the well thought out points you just made, because I don't like your tone mister. So I'm going to pretend you never made them, pretend that aalll the slander against atheism still stands and then I'm going to tell you that you should be ashamed and that you give atheists a bad name. Plus I'm going to add that Catholics are intellectual elites that understand evolution better than even most science enthusiasts, but I'll gloss over the fact that the Catholic tenet of teleology can be pretty much indistinguishable from Intelligent Design.

[–]Sunwoken 26 points27 points ago

You can challenge someone's ideas without disrespecting the person just as well if not better than when you do disrespect them.

[–]Maharog 18 points19 points ago

HEY FUCK YOU SUNWOKEN NO YOU CANT

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points ago

I don't think you fully appreciate the fervency with which some people hold these beliefs. As far as they are concerned, to attack their beliefs is to personally attack them.

Speaking out against religion - no matter how politely or respectfully - is always gonna piss people off. This is not to say that it isn't preferable to try to maintain some level of civil discourse. However, I feel that this is not always a possibility.

[–]bleedingheartsurgery 4 points5 points ago

This. Can someone go to r/atheism right now and find me something that shows atheists being assholes? I always ask this, and no one can ever leave a link. Just an example so I can understand why the sub is hated.

[–]Achalemoipas 8 points9 points ago

Why would we?

Why is everybody so crazy about respecting any kind of stupid person? I don't respect stupid people who say stupid things and I address them accordingly.

Some people need to learn they are stupid.

[–]SoepWal 1 point2 points ago

This is not possible when the person is tied up in their beliefs.

If you disrespect a believers beliefs, you disrespect the believer.

[–]Withnails[S] 21 points22 points ago

when you disrespect ideas, or the people who have them, they usually shut down and get defensive.

For proof of this, look at the comment below.

[–]HoppyMcScragg 24 points25 points ago

For more proof, try calling a large group of people an asshole.

[–]Hurm 0 points1 point ago

"You people there! You are collectively one asshole!"

That just struck me as funny. And today, I needed the funny, so thank you. :)

It's almost like "asshole" is a unit of measurement.

1 asshole = 10 douchebags, etc.

[–]Rick-KLN 10 points11 points ago

Yes they do, but disrespecting their ideas still achieved much more than respecting them would have. I'm getting sick and tired of repeating this point over and over so I'm just going to quote from one of the recent times I responded to this "be nice" bullshit.

Ultimately people don't change their beliefs based on how they view other groups. I believe Sikhs are generally nice people, however I would never even consider becoming a Sikh. People change their beliefs based on which ideas make sense to them when they consider them. Mocking people's beliefs shows them that you are really sure they are wrong and greatly increases the chance they will think about what you believe, much more than being nice to them will. When people logically consider atheism and religion they have a real chance of becoming atheists regardless of wether or not they think atheists are nice or not.

I used to be a christian and I would have regular discussions with 'nice' atheists, however these Atheists never made me think twice about atheism. I always thought the reason they were respecting christianity was because they thought they might one day be christians, I always expected them to convert very soon.

However when I discovered Reddit and /r/atheism and I started watching British comedians like Jimmy Car and Ricky Gervais I found people that were mocking christianity. These people were not even considering the possibility of converting to christianity at any time. They were sure of themselves. So for the first time I seriously considered atheism and the switch was easy. Even though some atheists seemed like assholes I knew lots of christian assholes too, and more importantly I now believed the atheists were right. So personally and with a lot of my friends I have seen that mocking religion or mocking atheism does a much better job of making people question their belief than respecting their beliefs.

Now I'm not saying religious people respond to mockery and disrespect with: "Hmm these atheists are probably right." I'm saying when someone is mocked or disrespected for they're belief they are very likely to question their belief, to make sure they are right and to make sure the other person is wrong. They will get defensive this time, but then they will go looking for evidence to back themselves up next time.

When they find the evidence the evidence will point to the truth. If a religious person really goes and looks at the evidence he will realize religion is ridiculous and the atheists are right. Once this happens they will not come back next time and defend something they now realize is wrong and for which they will be mocked just so they don't have to side with the assholes.

People care about what is true and what is real a lot more than they care about assholes and nice people.

[–]Dslycix 0 points1 point ago

Based on your experience with how you formed your own beliefs, I can see how you believe that disrespecting someone's ideas can be more effective than being nice. And I also agree with this statement you made.

People care about what is true and what is real a lot more than they care about assholes and nice people.

However, if this is the case, I think that being nice or being an asshole is not really determinant of how effectively you can get other people to consider your points. Satire is a good way to express a view, and it often gets people to consider a different view. It also has the chance to offend people which results in them feeling even more defensive about their own beliefs. Personally, I am receptive to considering other people's beliefs whether they're being respectful of mine or not. But I believe it's easier to get people to listen and even consider your views if you don't insult or disrespect theirs. That results in emotions that can cloud a person's judgement.

[–]griffcon 2 points3 points ago

Daniel Dennet described this problem in the opening to the popular "Four Horsemen" discussion. He described how he screened his book against a body of deeply religious students and then made adjustments to reduce the amount of offence taken by his wording. It didn't matter, they were still offended regardless of how tactful and nuanced his wording. He described it as "a mug's game".

[–]xiipaoc 6 points7 points ago

This is a nice aside into an interesting fallacy. Thank you for introducing us to the tone argument and making sure that we never fall prey to its abuse.

However, I have to say: you're not an asshole, but you're wrong. Why? Because "you're not wrong, but you're an asshole" is not an argument against what you're saying, just against the tone. It's actually an argument for what you're saying. It's only a fallacy when it's used by someone who disagrees with you to "win the argument" without actually winning the argument.

You can argue that actually, being an asshole is the correct approach. You seem to do so in your second paragraph. "No, we should be assholes." That's a valid point. I don't agree with it, but that's OK; who says we have to agree on everything? It shouldn't be considered a truism that being an asshole is bad in every context. But this is a valid argument to have, especially with people who agree with you. I don't think being an asshole is a good thing; you do; we're just disagreeing on how to transmit the same message content. And most importantly, I'm not dismissing your argument. It's only fallacious when it's dismissive!

[–]lankist 6 points7 points ago

The tone argument is an attack on rhetoric, not rationality.

It's generally referenced by the feminism and queer movements. The opposition agrees with the premise, but disagrees with the proponent of that premise on the basis of rhetorical strength. e.g. "I agree that women still suffer from stereotyping and that's a problem, but acting like a bitch about everything won't solve that."

[–]BellaBlack 3 points4 points ago

This is only true to some part. Although some might use this argument to "hush" their opponent, it is also used when the opponent acts like a fucking asshole. Which happens all the time.

[–]Toby-one 5 points6 points ago

Here's how I see it. When two people are arguing, angry as hell, and yelling at eachother I will walk the other way fearing that the two crazy people might turn their attention on me. When two people are arguing and one is batshit insane and the other is calm and rational then I am more inclined to listen to the guy who is calm and composed. In a situation where both parties are calm and composed then the person who makes the most rational and best arguments will win. I am not telling you to be quiet, or meek, I am just saying don't be an asshole and make proper arguments to build up your case instead.

I mean listen to these two guys one is an asshole and the other is not. Then ask yourself "Which one am I emulateing?" and I think you will agree that one answer is better than the other. The point is not wheter or not the christians or MRA thinks that your very existance makes you an asshole the point is to not make being an asshole a goal in itself.

Not being an asshole and being meek is not the same thing. And if the other side will fabricate any excuse to call you an asshole in order to discredit your arguments then I don't think you should give their fabrications any merit by actually being an asshole.

[–]ThinkusMcGee 10 points11 points ago

This is r/atheism, not r/atheismpublicrelations. This is supposed to be a safe place where atheists don't have to to be quiet and deferential and constantly worry about the delicate sensitivities of theists and their apologists.

It's totally disengenuous to act as if we're being jerks all the time just because in our own special site devoted to our interested we're not unfailingly polite and logical. Lots of us in here are young atheists still struggling with our newfound alienation, atheists living in rural or heavily religious areas where it can be profoundly socially harmful, even dangerous, to be 'out of the closet', and atheists reeling from vicious abuse by theists in need of a safe place to vent. It's totally thoughtless and rude for you to come in here and tell us we're acting improper.

[–]Toby-one 1 point2 points ago

I was responding to a comment not makeing a general statement about r/atheism or atheism and OP never said that atheist or r/atheism was always being and asshole he was simply stateing that sometimes he feel like people are being assholes. This may not be r/atheismpublicrealations but this is r/atheism it is an official forum, it is one of the dafault subreddits that means that this is not our special little safe place. And if you are just out of the closet I congratulate you but listen to the two guys in the clip I linked to and ask yourself which one do you want to be like?

[–]novanleon 4 points5 points ago

This is actually a very insightful observation, not just in the atheism debate, but for every day life. Carry yourself in a respectful-but-confident and calm manner and people are just more likely to listen to you. The moment you make someone feel like you're pushing against them, they will put up walls and stop listening to what you're saying.

[–]JonZ1618 0 points1 point ago

So why the fuck be nice about it to begin with if the mere denial of the premises of faith is deemed by society-at-large as being rude?

Because such an attitude is what pisses of 90% of fellow non-believers. You know, Reddit isn't filled with fundamentalists. It's mostly that 1/3 of people under 30 who have no faith. They find this subreddit and its userbase to be obnoxious for this very reason. So if you want a good reason to be nice, it's so you don't alienate fellow atheists, and instead help bring them together in supporting this subreddit. Then, when genuinely egregious shit does happen (like some politician calls for throwing all atheists out of the country), there can be a large, organized network of individuals to express outrage.

Nobody ever accomplished anything by being meek and mild.

Buddha? Gandhi? Hell, Dennett?

[–]napoleonsolo 9 points10 points ago

Why the hell do you think Gandhi is so respected? He faced a crapload of opposition, that's why he's famous. What do you think he did, go around saying "Hey I'm Gandhi and I'm nice", and then everyone just up and agreed with him.

In fact his opponents, of which there were many, dumped crap on him. Winston Churchill called him a "a seditious middle temple lawyer" and a half-naked fakir.

I'm sure Gandhi's attitude on Indian independence "piss[ed] off 90% of fellow" British subjects. And that British politicians like Churchill found Gandhi to "be obnoxious for this very reason".

People find controversial views like Gandhi's obnoxious, up until the point those views win.

[–]elusiveallusion 13 points14 points ago

Nobody ever accomplished anything by being meek and mild.

Buddha? Gandhi? Hell, Dennett?

Well, they were probably mild, but hardly meek. Meek would have been going along with everyone else; if they'd done that, you'd hardly have named them.

[–]HighDagger 5 points6 points ago

Funny that you'd mention Dennett, because he said:
"I listen to all these complaints about rudeness and intemperateness, and the opinion that I come to is that there is no polite way of asking somebody: have you considered the possibility that your entire life has been devoted to a delusion? But that's a good question to ask. Of course we should ask that question and of course it's going to offend people. Tough."

http://imgur.com/MpVFl

[–]Feinberg 20 points21 points ago

Wait, woah, since when was Gandhi meek and mild? I think maybe you're confusing pacifism with coddling the opposition. Gandhi was extremely sarcastic and outspoken.

Also, this:

It's mostly that 1/3 of people under 30 who have no faith. They find this subreddit and its userbase to be obnoxious for this very reason.

Why do you get to speak for everybody? Honestly, this would be questionable even if you weren't advocating that a minority keep silent to appease a majority.

Edit:

A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble. - Gandhi

[–]napoleonsolo 7 points8 points ago

First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice;

MLK, Jr., Letter from a Birmingham jail

[–]ellipsisca 3 points4 points ago

The whole point being.. it doesn't matter what we say we are still being assholes. You can choose to be a meek and mild asshole others will choose different. BTW good luck with your meek and mild approach to being repatriated.

[–]gregsmith93 7 points8 points ago

You know what pisses me off. That humans who don't believe in god have to call them selves atheists.

[–]web-cyborg 0 points1 point ago

I prefer calling myself a realist (don't believe in magic/mythos), and a critical thinker.

[–]spock_block 1 point2 points ago

And you can expell all the bees with fire.

[–]Ikarr0s 1 point2 points ago

First of all thank you for saving me the time to write the same kind of comment as you did.

The "you attract more bees with honey" bullshit.

The kind of people we have and the ones we have had leading us troughout the history is the best proof of this, we are mostly "masochist" primates that will vote for the one male that tells them to do that in the most agressive and arrogant way possible .

[–]SanityInAnarchy 0 points1 point ago

[–]mygoodguinesses 0 points1 point ago

Being aggressive and right wont work on everyone. you may just end up making the people you want to persuade defensive and hard to reach.

[–]lankist 1 point2 points ago

Conversion is not a mandate of atheism.

[–]Chumkil -1 points0 points ago

There is an argument to be made for tone. I would make it here, but one of our favorites, Neil D. Tyson makes it here for me:

(Language in video is NSFW!)

Tyson and Dawkins

I like both NDT and Dawkins, and own many books by both. Pay particular attention to what NDT is discussing here; it is the very tone argument you deride.

Never forget we are apes. There is a large amount of non-verbal communication that goes on between us. If you accidentally influence an emotional argument in the wrong way (tone) you will fail to deliver your message, and can often have the opposite message that you intend.

[–]lankist 2 points3 points ago

The argument is a personal one, not a dogmatic one. You are under the impression that the message being received is paramount. To an educator, yes that is important. But it is not paramount to the whole. Tyson, while technically an atheist by definition, doesn't refer to himself as such because that is not his interest. Tyson does not argue that Dawkins has a responsibility to make Tyson look good, or that Dawkins is making Tyson look bad.

Furthermore, you seem to be under the impression that one cannot disagree with Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson. On matters of science, I sure as shit wouldn't disagree. On matters of rhetoric he is not, however, an authority (nor is there an authority at all on such a subject.) It's perfectly possible to disagree with someone on something so vague as rhetorical style in a civil way. That is, after all, what the other side of this discussion is arguing, no?

[–]Bournemouth 0 points1 point ago

just lankist being right as per usual

[–]HiFiWiFiSciFi 0 points1 point ago

I am going to memorize this.

[–]Piratiko 0 points1 point ago

it does not matter which words you put in what order: you are always going to be told to be quieter or nicer.

It's just anecdotal, but this hasn't been my experience save for maybe once or twice.

Most of the time I take a calm, kind approach and I've actually changed quite a few minds about atheism in general. The 'catch more bees with honey bullshit' has some validity. The key in all of it is respect. I respect people and I present my beliefs in a respectful way, and I get respect in return.

[–]hooger0000 0 points1 point ago

"Science without humanity"

[–]elbruce 46 points47 points ago

Ratio of posts in /r/atheism claiming /r/atheism is being an asshole vs. posts in /r/atheism actually being an asshole ~ 100:1

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]worksiah 15 points16 points ago

I encourage you to show me the hate and assholishness we currently have frontpaged. I'll be gone until break, so in two hours I'll check back on your progress.

[–]bleedingheartsurgery 5 points6 points ago

I asked the same an hour ago, I'm still waiting for an example

[–]worksiah 3 points4 points ago

Someone did reply to me, though I didn't feel it was what we were looking for. You might check it out, though! I've been doing this for months whenever I see it, and I haven't yet seen someone that isn't just overly sensitive.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]tEnPoInTs 12 points13 points ago

"Hey guys here's a fake [facebook post / SMS / written story] I made of a _______ person that is in no way representative of their group. Now we can all feel validated."

You just described the front page of every subreddit. Ever.

[–]worksiah 2 points3 points ago

Some of them are okay. I don't much care for the short ones, but being from facebook doesn't instantly make it vapid.

[–]hat678 5 points6 points ago

Furthermore, a lot of the intelligent atheist conversations that used to be here seem to have migrated over to facebook. /r/atheism has just devolved into a bunch of christians calling us assholes. They also try to derail every conversation with something along the lines of "this is not atheism".

[–]worksiah 3 points4 points ago

Pretty much.

[–]A_Mirror -2 points-1 points ago

Religion Bashing

Religion bashing

Text on picture quotation bashing religion

More religious bashing Hey, Hitler's scientists conducted experiments on the jews, does that make science bad? Fucking hell, science created the atomic bomb, one of the most fearsome and horrifying things that we as a race have ever made. Science has given us the ability to destroy ourselves completely. Does that make science bad?

More religious bashing

More religious bashing

And this was done in 2 minutes before I had to go to work.

Is this your first time on /r/atheism ? Are you new here? The fact that this is not a nice subreddit, and is indeed a huge circle jerk more often than it is an actual valuable resource is not exactly some sort of mind blowing revelation, it's par for the course.

And god damn it, while I still keep seeing the same fucking quotes from Sagan, Tyson, Einstein and Hawking appearing on the front page on either a background of their face or a picture of space there really is no convincing me otherwise.

Edit: Go ahead, downvote me, I'm just supplying what you asked for.

[–]0Faith 29 points30 points ago

So basically you are saying we are not allowed to criticise religion and that makes people "not nice"

[–]A_Mirror 1 point2 points ago

Point out where I said that you can't criticise religion.

It's when you make these stupid side by side graphs of "Religion over the years vs. Science over the years". That's not criticism, that's you guys just jerking yourselves off over how great science is and how stupid all those dumb christians are.

I welcome legitimate criticism of religion, but that seems to be the minority of the content posted on this subreddit, which seems to currently be drowning in TEXT ON PICTURE OF SCIENTIST and FACEBOOK ARGUMENT posts.

[–]sj070707 12 points13 points ago

You equated religion bashing with assholishness and hate.

[–]Aitioma 2 points3 points ago

That's not criticism, that's you guys just jerking yourselves off over how great science is and how stupid all those dumb christians are.

Well, are they wrong?

I welcome legitimate criticism of religion,

Been there, done that. I don't really see your point. There is enough discussion on the matter. Literally every religious argument ever made has already been thoroughly discussed hundreds of times here. There is nothing left to say.

Ultimately people are still idiots. And there is nothing left but pointing out idiocy. The discussion itself is over. What else do you believe needs to be further discussed? What criticism do you believe hasn't been already posed towards religion? What's left to say?

but that seems to be the minority of the content posted on this subreddit, which seems to currently be drowning in TEXT ON PICTURE OF SCIENTIST and FACEBOOK ARGUMENT posts.

What else do you expect? There is nothing original to post anymore.

[–]worksiah 5 points6 points ago

Those aren't bashing. I'm guessing you're religious. Or very sensitive.

First "More religious bashing" Unless their point was about how religion is used to control populations, it is going a bit far, and is inaccurate. But I don't see how it's assholish. I'd be interested in you providing a link to the comments.

The last two are taking on social issues, and the very last one actually says Radicals on it. It actually distances terrorists from mainstream Islam. The catholic church denied wrongdoing, and promoted someone that was in charge of covering it up to their leader. You're telling me they don't deserve having it pointed out when their members still deny it and call people beelzebub for saying otherwise? What are you smoking?

Is this your first time on /r/atheism ? Are you new here? The fact that this is not a nice subreddit, and is indeed a huge circle jerk more often than it is an actual valuable resource is not exactly some sort of mind blowing revelation, it's par for the course.

This isn't my main account. I've spent a lot of time here. I actually don't visit atheism on my main anymore. Because of people like you. Other than the hilarity of you insulting the entire subreddit after providing one arguably assholish post, your anti-r/atheism circle jerk makes it nearly impossible to correct someone that is wrong and genuinely a pain in the ass to contribute.

[–]_pupil_ 9 points10 points ago

So... there are assholes ... on the internet??

Someone should see if Romney and Obama are willing to suspend their campaigns, we need action on this.

[–]Kdansky1 9 points10 points ago

I'd rather be an educated asshole than a friendly idiot.

[–]RockyMotion 20 points21 points ago

At least we're assholes in a way that doesn't get people hurt, killed or robbed of their civil rights.

[–]does_not_play_nice 15 points16 points ago

Those horrible horrible atheists being so rude...what assholes.

Meanwhile in religion land...girl shot in head for speaking out against Islam.

Sorry about your feelings regarding rude atheists dude but fuck off.

[–]TheLAriver 4 points5 points ago

When people can't argue the argument, they argue the arguer.

[–]boriswied 1 point2 points ago

In r/atheism, most people don't know the definition of an argument.

[–]TheLAriver 0 points1 point ago

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

That atheists in this subreddit don't know the definition? Because I would confidently say that a group of people expressing an opinion contrary to the popular one could be safely counted on to understand the meaning of the word.

And I don't think you'll have any trouble finding an /r/atheism subscriber who's willing to have an argument about their perspective.

[–]Hithrae 9 points10 points ago

I don't think this is true at all. When are people ever nasty? Rarely (I can't remember seeing any).

Questioning someone shouldn't be paralleled with being an asshole.

[–]2ShedsJackson 1 point2 points ago

Being polite is not being meek and mild. I'm not exactly a militant atheist ( I kinda consider myself a theological Switzerland, actually), but I find that discussions inevitably go better with the use of manners. Someone will actually consider my point. That's my experience, mind you. Being a rude asshole just makes you a rude asshole, and tends to make me think you really don't have a lot of faith in your own position.

All that being said, this is the country with the First Amendment (as much as some would like that little inconvenience to go away). Say what you will, how you will. It's your right. Just understand you're not going to change a lot of people's minds by being a dick. You may just wind up entrenching them in their position.

[–]elbruce 0 points1 point ago

Calling me a rude asshole makes you a rude asshole.

[–]WolfNippleChips 3 points4 points ago

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[–]sugarazor 4 points5 points ago

How I feel about religion sometimes:

"You are wrong and you're an asshole."

[–]elbruce 1 point2 points ago

That's both sides of the argument -

atheist: "You are wrong; here's why."

theist: "You are an asshole; shut up."

[–]Finniono 3 points4 points ago

If you sincerely believe organized religion is in direct opposition of human progress (as I believe), anything less than blunt and aggressive resistance is immoral.

This isn't an issue of religion vs. atheism, it has become a war between self-loathing and superstition vs. human progress. No moral human can be accepting or tolerant of that. The rules of etiquette do not apply when ignorance and creationism are pervading our government and even our children's educations.

I bear the title militant (agnostic) atheist with pride; and if that makes me an asshole I'm proud to bear that title as well.

-Signed AAA and Proud (Agnostic Atheist Asshole)

[–]elbruce 1 point2 points ago

This sums up everything being said here.

But of course, the comic itself constitutes "religion bashing" and either drawing it or sharing it makes you an "asshole."

[–]Quazz 13 points14 points ago

Repost number 8319417645

[–]Le_90s_Kid_XD 9 points10 points ago

Fits in nicely here at /r/atheism then doesn't it?

[–]Aitioma 5 points6 points ago

Yes, anti-/r/atheism circlejerk is the most popular thing on /r/atheism.

[–]poo-poo 0 points1 point ago

Dialing now.

[–]yaysuekristy 0 points1 point ago

*8675309

[–]Carvoic 2 points3 points ago

When this is said a million times it gets just as annoying.

[–]edscouse 2 points3 points ago

I'm sure the percentage of people who are assholes among religious people and non-religious people is pretty much the same. But surely its better to be right and an asshole than to be wrong and an asshole.

[–]whobroughtmehere 2 points3 points ago

Sometimes they're just as bad as those dang carpet-pissers.

[–]jakegittes513 0 points1 point ago

Being an asshole = making me question my faith.

[–]coniferous1 2 points3 points ago

[–]Capercaillie 7 points8 points ago

Shut the fuck up, Donny.

[–]elbruce 2 points3 points ago

YOU'RE IN OVER YOUR HEAD, DONNY!

[–]SquinterMan86 2 points3 points ago

I can't help it if people are offended by the truth. If being right makes me an asshole, then I'm glad to be one.

[–]flameawayNV 3 points4 points ago

I'm not sure why Christians think atheists are assholes.

Maybe, it's cause atheists get tired of Christians trying to convince them that there is a Santa Claus, but that adults call him God.

So when a god shouter starts pestering me with the whole 'Santa's gonna send you to hell forever', for telling Christians that they are greedy and self absored in their quest to use Christianity as a brand name, I pretty much tell xtians to take the Bible and read it rectally.

I figure they should try that, since they haven't been able to understand the book by reading normally. How do ya'll christians miss the message of the Bible, when you talk about the damn thing all the time?

Maybe a scriptural enema will help them understand the notion of humility and forgiveness.

If not, hopefully they will be so uncomfortable carrying the Bible around in their rectum, that they try to remove it, instead of trying to smack me one with it.

[–]OpenSecret 1 point2 points ago

SO BRAVE

[–]rzalph 26 points27 points ago

Well at least he had balls enough to post this in r/atheism rather than crying about it to r/AdviceAnimals.

[–]Aitioma 2 points3 points ago

Uhm, what has that to do with having balls?

Hating /r/atheism is one of the most popular things you can do on /r/atheism. It's the biggest circlejerk on reddit and will always get you a lot of karma and idiots agreeing with you.

[–]intellos 11 points12 points ago

Just like your comment.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

SO IRONIC

[–]Favre4Life 2 points3 points ago

This exact meme has been used like 5 times already. reddit is just one big circular repeat. learn to be fucking original, karma is not worth anything.

[–]Arkaynan 0 points1 point ago

Not even the right image.

[–]shoryuken_kid 2 points3 points ago

Here comes the irrational lack of self awareness in r/atheism.

[–]pdaddio2239 1 point2 points ago

What, we're totally self-aware! Show me one post where atheism has ever been judgmental. EVER

[–]Snappy_the_croc 0 points1 point ago

Were nihilists "sounds exhausting."

[–]_spacejunk 0 points1 point ago

The truth is stranger than fiction.

[–]cockporn 1 point2 points ago

r/angrytheism

[–]camoguard 0 points1 point ago

I'd say that the feeling that some other person is an asshole due to their post happens outside of r/atheism as much as it does inside r/atheism. This leads me to believe there is a more general relationship between posts and my response that doesn't require me to specifically consider atheism threads.

[–]pyrostarr -1 points0 points ago

I understand this, and I would guess you feel this way not because of the posts, but the comments under the posts. I had to stop going to the comments under most of the the threads, just to be able to get the couple giggles I want to out of this subreddit. When I do go to the comments I get about a third of the way down and feel the need to to r/rabbits to feel better about life.

[–]asboans 1 point2 points ago

I come to /r/atheism to laugh, not for intellectual stimulation. While I agree that in a public discussion of matters to do with faith and religion, a balanced, fair and friendly environment is needed (on both sides), I also think that there is a forum for this kind of satire and humour.

[–]RZ284 -1 points0 points ago

sometimes?

[–]DBenzie 0 points1 point ago

[–]Chazhoosier -1 points0 points ago

We have a saying where I come from- "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."

[–]Dentedkarma 0 points1 point ago

The only problem is that tacking on common features of an atheist is placed by the loud mouthed ones. It really doesn't represent the atheists on reddit as a whole.

[–]serenaisblank 0 points1 point ago

way to beat the dead horse...

[–]herbertportillo 0 points1 point ago

Calmer than you are.

[–]GoMrJoe -1 points0 points ago

I'm an atheist and even I have to admit that many of us are assholes. Try to call them out? Expect downvotes.

[–]whitepepper 0 points1 point ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJfZYb4bipo

Nobody knows/ What happens when you die/ Nobody knows/ What happens when you die/ Believe what you want/ It doesn't mean you're right/

That is a fact of life/ That is a fact of life

[–]crazybusdriver 0 points1 point ago

I feel this meme has been posted about /r/atheism waaay too many times.

[–]knowvember 0 points1 point ago

As an atheist I feel that other atheists are making us out to be hipster assholes... STAHP!

[–]CannaMontanna -1 points0 points ago

"How I feel about r/atheism ALL THE TIME." FTFY

[–]the_cuteness 1 point2 points ago

That is what /r/atheism is for! For a bunch of people to come to a place to vent the anger they have. To seek support in people who understand that anger or fear or anxiety. Even if it's just the ability to post something that would ruin friendships on facebook, but that you need to get out and say to someone.

I don't really visit /r/atheism anymore, but I used to live here. This place was a haven for me. All of it, especially the most douchey posts. I felt the same way you feel now. I had a time when I sort of looked down on r/atheism.

I thought that it was just a bunch of people shouting to each other about how much they hate that they have been lied to their whole lives and how it's bullshit.

I was right about that, but I was wrong about looking down on it. I think this should be a safe place to be a bit of an asshole. Around people who are feeling the same way, and kind of want to be assholes towards their old belief systems as well.

[–]biggn001 0 points1 point ago

This was funny the last 27 times I saw this make it to the front page.

[–]moccajoghurt 0 points1 point ago

Your counter-arguments sound really good... e.g.

"Your tone is what's wrong argument is just a thought-terminating cliche."

What most don't seem to comprehend at r/atheism is that the output of this subreddit is incredibly low-level. Your output mainly is mocking and pseudo-intellectual quotes with fancy squiggle. Day after day after day after day, ...

That's why you can't say the mass is trying to terminate your thougts. The mass would actually love to see some thoughtfulness in here.

This subreddit is for high-school kids who are circle-jerking about how religion sucks.

Bring back some intelligence and deep thoughts in here and people might accept this subreddit.

[–]bconeill 0 points1 point ago

I have to agree... Criticize the institution all you want, but it's crossing a line when you try to tear into someone just for posting a Bible verse on facebook. One of my close friends and a person I have immense respect for on a philosophical and humanistic level is actually pretty deeply religious (actually, he's hoping to become a pastor)-- as it turns out, you can believe in a God without thinking he hates gay people, or wants you to deny evolution.

If my first interaction with him had been "Oh you believe in a god? You're halting the progress of society and should feel bad," my life would be a lot worse off right now, because I'll say it again-- he's a pretty cool guy.

It's all about the way in which religion is utilized, which is something /r/atheism seems to forget pretty quickly. Before you post your "hilarious" facebook conversation for oodles of karma, just try to consider whether the person you're harassing actually deserves it. I'm happy to admit theism in general isn't doing us a whole lot of good, but that doesn't mean that the individual theists themselves aren't.

[–]omgnomgnome 0 points1 point ago

1/10 internet troll 11/10 getting attention like a three year old going into mom and dad's cocktail party and dropping his pants.

[–]Treme 0 points1 point ago

I'm too lazy but someone should make a FIXED one for r/religion or r/god .... A pic of Walter saying:

"Shut the fuck up Donny...you're like a child wandering into the middle of a movie wondering what the fuck is going on!!!!!!!"

[–]Everything_Is_Irie 0 points1 point ago

Hmm, wouldn't say we're assholes. Its a forum dedicated to the non-religious. Calling out hardcore religious people may seem assholish, but you're argung with closed minded people who actually firmly believe this shit. There's no tip toeing around here, especially a forum of atheists.

[–]Helplessromantic 0 points1 point ago

I really hate how apologetic r/atheism is, sorry if that makes me an asshole, but it seems like every post i see now is something like this.

[–]bilboslice 0 points1 point ago

Ridiculous. There is no other recourse than to be an asshole. We can't reason with them, and we sure as hell shouldn't praise their lack of critical thinking skills. And you can't ignore a problem this massive and just expect it to go away. And I'm fairly certain that a genocide is out of the question. I'm one of those who believe that we should constantly ridicule them until the ones who are worth the weight in brain cells finally decide to start thinking for themselves. Fuck the rest, they're already to far gone anyway.

[–]Hankers13 0 points1 point ago

Lol at the people saying this post isn't really true. First off, do you guys understand what the word "sometimes" means? It doesn't mean all the time, or most of the time, or anything of that nature, it means "sometimes". I am as atheist as the next guy; I love debating my religious friends, or just discussing things about the subject, and every once in a while, when it is deserved, I get a little more mean with it. However, not that all of them are bad, (here is where that "sometimes" word comes into play) but sometimes you know that people are just being dicks. They are provoking the argument, they are getting way too offensive with it, and it almost seems like an attempt to show off how atheist they are. Once again though, sometimes it is deserved. Sometimes, in fact most of the time if you ask me, it is perfectly reasonable for them to do it, because of the other party. It all depends on the circumstance.

tl;dr please learn what the word sometimes means.

[–]Amryxx 0 points1 point ago

Well obviously, r/atheism is populated by people, and some people are assholes. While I agree with OP's statement, I don't really see the point in stating the blindly obvious.

(and no, being a dick is no way to conduct yourself, with or without religion)

[–]Zinglon 1 point2 points ago

This is exactly how I feel when listening to religious nutjobs, or when readong their posts.

...well, except for the "you're not wrong" part.

[–]darkangelx 0 points1 point ago

I am an asshole and I will continue to be an asshole as long as religious fucktards try to turn their religion into my government and my laws.

Keep your batshit crazy stuff to yourself, and I assure you, you will not see the inner asshole that is me.