With my creationist friends... : atheism


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[–]complex_reduction 15 points16 points17 points 1 day ago

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[–]kingplayer 0 points1 point2 points 19 hours ago

[–]GrindTimeFanboy 0 points1 point2 points 19 hours ago*

I mean, this IS why Reddit hates r/atheism. Sure, there are stupid people who get butthurt when their intelligence is threatened, but do you honestly think that's the majority of Reddit? Now I realize that this is r/atheism and expressing our disbelief is entire the point of being here, but please... consider the following:

The thing that makes being an atheist great isn't that we happen to be "right" about one specific aspect of human existence, even if it's an extremely important one. The thing that makes being an atheist great is that it's just one example of how we strive to embrace facts and not just ideas that feel right. That's the nut of why it's so easy for posts here to seem petty. I'm willing to bet that damn near everyone holds at least one belief or opinion that the rest of us would consider "childish" or "contradictory". It just isn't necessarily a religious belief. Nobody goes out of their way to gather in groups and mock our weird phobias, or our delusions about our love life, or our unrealistic career expectations, and they certainly don't feel entitled to make sweeping character judgements based on those things. So when we go from "your beliefs are wrong" to "you're lifestyle is wrong because you're stupid and afraid" it seems remarkably hypocritical. We're stupid and afraid of things, too, and the rest of Reddit knows that. It's obnoxious as fuck to be around someone who comments on other people's flaws but never reflects on their own shit. Why do you think the Catholic Church is so annoying? AW SNAP!

EDIT: Just want to clarify I'm not knocking this post in particular, or even all posts like this in general. It just seemed like a good context to say something I've been thinking about lately.

[–]complex_reduction 1 point2 points3 points 19 hours ago

The purpose of this subreddit is that virtually anything goes, so long as it's relevant to "atheism, agnosticism and secular living".

I think the reason Reddit hates /r/atheism so much is that they seem to misunderstand the purpose of this subreddit. They seem to believe that /r/atheism is supposed to be populated purely by philosophy PHD's discussing the meaning of life over self-posts and tea and that anything "childish" or "immature" has no place here. This is clearly incorrect and clearly reflected in the rules of the subreddit.

It's obnoxious as fuck to be around someone who comments on other people's flaws but never reflects on their own shit.

I do not believe that atheism is similar to the things you have described - "... our weird phobias, or our delusions about our love life, or our unrealistic career expectations ...".

Reddit (western society as a whole?) is plagued with the notion of false balance; that atheism and other "beliefs" stand on equal ground logically and that fact and fiction should stand in equal merit so long as nobody is "offended". This is all demonstrably false. Whether or not somebody elects to retain theism or embrace atheism, a rational person, even a theist, would agree that when it comes to reason and logic, no religion or similar understanding based on presumption or "faith" has any grounds whatsoever to stand upon.

I do not believe atheists to be "superior" to theists, but I do believe that coming to an atheistic or evidence based conclusion is the only logical course of action. I believe that anybody who claims atheists, scientists, etc are "arrogant" etc for saying as much is wrong. I do not believe it is arrogant to come to a conclusion by evidence rather than faith, nor do I believe it is arrogant to claim fact should take precedence over fiction.

Religion, phobias, love, hope - none of these things are based on logic. Atheism is. I don't believe that you can draw a parallel, for example, between somebody with a phobia criticising a religious person for having illogical beliefs, because organised religion is demonstrably false and continued faith in the face of that evidence is purely elective on the part of the theist. People cannot control their phobias.

[–]GrindTimeFanboy 0 points1 point2 points 18 hours ago

People can and should be able to post whatever they want here. I'm simply suggesting that:

1.) Being correct and being a dick aren't mutually exclusive.

2.) If you post content you know will offend someone, you give up the right to act confused when they don't like you anymore. We at r/atheism seem to have trouble with that concept sometimes.

3.) Being right about one specific issue doesn't give you the right to make generalizations about the character or intelligence of someone who disagrees with you. I think there's a lot of oversimplification of people who embrace religion. Certainly they're wrong, but on an individual level we don't know why they've come to the wrong conclusion. Why make assumptions? They might have very complex motivations for living the way they do, and when we write them off collectively as "stupid" or "scared" it's dismissive and condescending. Nobody likes being talked down to.

That's all I'm gettin' at.

[–]complex_reduction 0 points1 point2 points 18 hours ago

1.) Being correct and being a dick aren't mutually exclusive.

Agreed completely. That being said, many people apparently perceive a claim to truth as being inherently dickish, so what are people supposed to do?

2.) If you post content you know will offend someone, you give up the right to act confused when they don't like you anymore. We at r/atheism seem to have trouble with that concept sometimes.

Mockery and parody are well established and historic forms of criticism. Atheists and theists are, ultimately, at odds with one another. I would say that making fun of each other through animated GIF's lets off steam that might otherwise be channeled into, say, burning people alive at stakes, etc.

3.) Being right about one specific issue doesn't give you the right to make generalizations about the character or intelligence of someone who disagrees with you. I think there's a lot of oversimplification of people who embrace religion. Certainly they're wrong, but on an individual level we don't know why they've come to the wrong conclusion. Why make assumptions? They might have very complex motivations for living the way they do, and when we write them off collectively as "stupid" or "scared" it's dismissive and condescending. Nobody likes being talked down to.

I did not mean to imply that theists are stupid or scared, just willfully ignorant, which while often a symptom of stupidity or fear, do not necessarily originate there.