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He's right. (x-post from r/images) (imgur.com)
submitted 11 hours ago by bronxwasborninsweden
[–]arsenale 60 points61 points62 points 8 hours ago
"Did you know that the president of China is a scientist? President Hu Jintao was trained as a hydraulic engineer. Likewise his Premier, Wen Jiabao, is a geomechanical engineer. In fact, 8 out of China's top 9 government officials are scientists or engineers." http://politics.slashdot.org/story/11/05/19/0219254/8-of-chinas-top-9-govt-officials-are-engineers
[–]youngchul 24 points25 points26 points 7 hours ago
Outside of the US, I'm pretty sure it's common to have a very varied parliament. Where I live, there are all types of people, from no education but work experience, to highly educated people, all coming with suggestions from their point of view.
[–]zurtrip 14 points15 points16 points 5 hours ago
In Australia we are dominated by lawyers and career politicians. Very few scientists or engineers.
[–]Amir616 7 points8 points9 points 2 hours ago
same in Canada
[–]FJT 18 points19 points20 points 7 hours ago*
They have more engineers and scientists for a few reasons as I recall. One is China has an affinity for large infrastructure projects (Three Gorges Dam). Another is engineers and their technocratic views are more of a match for the Communist Party system and focus on economic rights instead of human rights.
Edit: One more I thought of. Unlike US counterparts, Chinese politicians don't need to be telegenic, so engineer/scientist types that don't really like meeting with the public don't really have to in China.
[–]Second_Foundationeer 6 points7 points8 points 5 hours ago
That's because China's culture valued intelligence for the past thousand+ years. The bureaucratic examinations allowed poor people to move into wealthy government positions, provided that they were "smart" and studied the scholarly texts. The real difference between the modern and ancient days is that instead of memorizing Confucian texts, "smart" is thought of more as medical/scientific/engineering kind of stuff, so that explains why people don't mind "smart" government officials in China.
Compare that to the US where people bash on politicians for being too educated.. that'd explain it.
[–]Lord_Bumberchute 629 points630 points631 points 11 hours ago
NDT talking about politics and education.
This is atheism related, how?
[–]JustBrowsing4Chan 484 points485 points486 points 8 hours ago
I come to /r/atheism to suck on Neil deGrasse Tyson's big black cock and if you don't like it you can just leave.
[–]camnui 18 points19 points20 points 7 hours ago
I have to admit... I have wondered what it looks like....
[–]cookies32 36 points37 points38 points 7 hours ago
Well it's big and black for starters.
[–]MadxHatter0 43 points44 points45 points 6 hours ago
Covered in stars
[–]Biggle 15 points16 points17 points 6 hours ago
people call it the milky way
[–]I_ROPE_HORSES 26 points27 points28 points 5 hours ago
nah bro, people call it alpha centauri and it's on a collision course with your mom.
[–]justsaysblackpeople 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
black people
[–]VodkaGimlet 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago
I just spit my vodka gimlet all over the bar. You owe me like $2.50.
[–]BlckMrkt 278 points279 points280 points 8 hours ago
He's NOT talking about god.
[–]electric_paganini 120 points121 points122 points 8 hours ago
And thus on topic! Carry on.
[–]itsasillyplace 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago
This fucking guy right here. Imma use this argument next time a bitchy redditor starts bitching like a bitch on r/atheism
[–]pluto14 5 points6 points7 points 7 hours ago
/r/Spacedicks is about as far away from God as you can get. Is r/Spacedicks about atheism?
[–]thefatalepic 12 points13 points14 points 7 hours ago
Yes, it is. Now, you understand perfectly.
[–]Mrs_Mojo_Rising 3 points4 points5 points 8 hours ago
I found this to be the closest thing i've every had to a relgious experience: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pPLukd6l7pM#!
[–]infanticide_holiday 10 points11 points12 points 8 hours ago
Because NDT that's why.
[–]Ebelglorg 35 points36 points37 points 8 hours ago
At least it is not religion bashing for once.
[–]EMCsq 10 points11 points12 points 7 hours ago
ON the contrary he held a presentation on intellectuality and religion. He said intellectuality should not be a reason to deny religion and vice versa
[–]Lowbacca1977 18 points19 points20 points 8 hours ago
Except... that at least makes more sense here
[–]Blue_Falcon 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago
You should join me on /r/onlyatheism/.
[–]acaellum 12 points13 points14 points 8 hours ago*
While i agree it would fit elsewhere, ill try and decipher motives :)
(Although this argument falls short because /r/atheism would obviously be about atheism RELATED things.)
/r/atheism has, as all subreddits do the larger they get without enforcement, a catch all for anything that kinda relates in the smallest of ways. (notice how /r/funny and /r/pics are used almost completely interchangeably). In this case more torwards, science with half circle jerk and left leaning, then science related with circle jerk and left leaning, then semi science related with full on circle jerk and left leaning post plus anything to do with left leaning politics. So while it isnt /r/atheism as it SHOULD be, it does fit in with what has been posted.
[–]bradfuck 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
This is /r/atheism, NOT /r/antitheism
A point most folks don't seem to get here.
[–]MarcusHalberstram88 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago
Thank. You.
NGT is self-proclaimed agnostic.
[–]fallingwalls 5 points6 points7 points 7 hours ago
Hey, Its got NDT and that equals max karma in r/atheism.
[–]ueptvoovtpeu 4 points5 points6 points 8 hours ago
Anything circle jerky is now /r/atheism material. Didn't you get the memo?
[–]hobblygobbly 9 points10 points11 points 8 hours ago
Here's the video.
[–]underdabridge 713 points714 points715 points 10 hours ago
So shocking. People with an interest in passing laws study law. Horrifying.
[–]blackjackjester 48 points49 points50 points 8 hours ago
You need a law degree to write laws that hold up to scrutiny. You don't need one to pass law and know what should and should not be law.
[–]meh100 32 points33 points34 points 8 hours ago
All the lawyers in the Congress are not literally writing up the laws and they have advisers like everyone else.
If these people don't have enough time to read the bills, what makes you think they're writing them?
[–]kestert 50 points51 points52 points 7 hours ago
I disagree. I've studied science and law at uni and now work for a politician and I think a deep understanding of how the law works is crucial to being a good politician.
If you don't intimately understand how the law works, how can you possibly know if a proposed law is good or bad?
In my state of Tasmania, Australia. Our upper house (eg Senate equivalent) just voted down a Bill for Same-Sex marriage. The politicians, who aren't lawyers were swayed partially by a legal argument that stems from a lack of understanding of our Australian Constitution. Because they weren't lawyers, when they were given the differing opinions, they weren't able to weigh up which argument was actually better and they got it wrong.
[–]Lokismoke 8 points9 points10 points 6 hours ago
This is one hundred percent true. The way it should work(and I emphasize Should) is that politicians write laws with the assistance of experts in the case a special knowledge is required. Engineer's are awesome and everything, but they haven't studied the intricacies of our common law system like a lawyer has.
[–]djsjjd 5 points6 points7 points 4 hours ago
Agreed. When NDT lets a lawyer run a chemistry lab, we'll consider letting a scientist be a lawmaker.
[–]quasimotor 12 points13 points14 points 7 hours ago
And if you don't intimately understand science how can you legislate around scientific issues? Funding stem cell research, exploring space, protecting ecosystems, endangered species, etc.
Works both ways.
[–]kestert 20 points21 points22 points 6 hours ago
Interesting fact about lawyers though: They're apparently the group least likely to ask for a second opinion on their doctor's advice.
Good lawyers will trust the experts. The problems you're bringing up aren't about politicians not understanding, they're about politicians being more interested in satisfying other political interests than making an informed decision at all. That's not because of what their career was, it's because they're bad at their job.
[–]Zifnab25 20 points21 points22 points 9 hours ago
:-/
It's a little more than that. Not all lawyers go on to be politicians, just the rich and well connected ones. I think NDT might be better served noting them as "lobbyist", "lobbyist", "lobbyist", "Son of a former politician", "campaign staffer for another elected politician".
It's not just "lawyers become politicians because its all law". It's more like "rich, well connected people regularly go into law and politics."
[–]Chinese_redditor 14 points15 points16 points 8 hours ago*
You'd be glad to learn about Cross-benchers in the UK House of Lords then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbencher.
Appointed by an independent commission, not tied to any party, many of them professors, economists, scientists and doctors, and their only role to criticise government bills. For example, Zoologist Lord Krebs, chair of the Lords Science and Technology Committee.
A good proportion of the House of Lords are also scientists too, just tied to and appointed by government. For example, GP Dr Sarah Wollaston (Conservative Party)
edit: It's not democratic but it's a good way to appoint specialists into Parliament.
[–]maxkennerly 4 points5 points6 points 5 hours ago
Al Franken has a B.A. in political science and worked as a comedian. Todd Akin (of "women's bodies shut down rape babies" fame) has a B.S. in engineering and worked as an engineer.
Which would you trust more on issues of science policy?
[Ed: in case context isn't clear, I agree with underdabridge.]
[–]IgottaQ3012 164 points165 points166 points 9 hours ago
You don't need a law degree to pass a law. Many of the Founders and framers of the Constitution didn't have law degrees.
Laws cover a wide range of topics. I think Neil is trying to say why don't we have engineers and scientists writing, editing, and passing laws that require (or the efficacy of the law is extremely related to) an understanding of science. Sure, you probably want a lawyer to write up the final draft. But that is no reason for all the members of a governing body to be lawyers. For example, in the Senate you would only need 10% of the politicians to be well versed in law (a few for each party). I don't think anyone would argue that diversity of thought isn't lacking in our highest governing bodies.
[–]ortcutt 218 points219 points220 points 9 hours ago
None of the founders had law degrees for the simple reason that there were no law degrees yet, but many of them were lawyers at some point in their lives and had studied law. Hamilton, Jefferson, etc.... Of the 55 framers of the Constitution, 32 were lawyers.
[–]haleym 30 points31 points32 points 8 hours ago
None of the founders had law degrees for the simple reason that there were no law degrees yet
Actually, law degrees date back to the 11th century (in fact, they were the very first degrees in the history of European academic tradition, pre-dating degrees in other scholarly fields by about 2 centuries).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_degree
[–]Jimmy__Rustle 51 points52 points53 points 8 hours ago
Not all Lawyers had degrees in law back then. FDR took the bar exam and became a lawyer without ever going to law school.
[–]redpandaeater 20 points21 points22 points 7 hours ago
Jackson also never went to law school but apprenticed and practiced law as well.
[–]Jimmy__Rustle 3 points4 points5 points 7 hours ago
Calvin Coolidge also passed the bar exam and became a lawyer without ever going to law school.
[–]dulceestdesipere 13 points14 points15 points 7 hours ago*
But how many US academic institutions handed out law degrees in the 18th century?
I'm not completely sure how one became a lawyer back then, but I think one could just study for and pass the bar to become a lawyer without having a law degree (if that even existed).
[–]surfinfan21 12 points13 points14 points 7 hours ago
What's crazy though is that lawyers have a wide range of backgrounds. Many lawyers have backgrounds in science. I.e. IP lawyers.
[–]erosharcos 11 points12 points13 points 6 hours ago
Find me engineers and scientists who want to be in congress and I'll vote for them.
[–]Alexi_Strife 1 point2 points3 points 4 hours ago
Yeah, I think they are mostly too busy doing the jobs they love than getting sucked into a corrupt system that is beyond repair.
[–]AGayViking 15 points16 points17 points 7 hours ago
go vote for a scientist or engineer running for office, then.
[–]MrT-1000 6 points7 points8 points 4 hours ago
Scientists and engineers do not work well in office... they use reason, logic, scientific facts/research to base their claims for change/progress. If government were actually run like this... we'd actually get something done
[–]rocketvat 13 points14 points15 points 8 hours ago
Yeah, it's two hundred and fifty fucking years later. Get a new talking point.
[–]utcoco 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
Given how our current Congress is behaving, I think the Founders might have been on to something...
[–]Gr1pp717 14 points15 points16 points 8 hours ago
unfortunately they deal with a much vaster topics than "passing laws." While it is all ultimately written in the language of law, where those ideas come from is the problem.
We could just as easily have engineers, scientists and otherwise incredibly smart, detail oriented people figuring out the details, and using the lawyers as interns to write up the legal jargon outlining it.
[–]DoesntWorkForTheDEA 11 points12 points13 points 7 hours ago
isn't that why they tend to have people speak before congress on such matters and why they have comittees which dedicate themselves to talking to scientists or whatever their commitee is focused on?
[–]wpiman 0 points1 point2 points 6 hours ago
The old Soviet Union was run by scientists and engineers. Just saying.
Signed, an engineer.
[–]protendious 5 points6 points7 points 7 hours ago
Yeah I know. I mean, I think there should be committees made of experts in relevant fields that the lawmakers can consult on issues, but let's leave the lawmaking to the people that studied it. It's also unlikely that someone who studies science would want a position like this, because well, they studied science, so they probably wanna do something that relates to... well.. science.
[–]herbertportillo 5 points6 points7 points 7 hours ago
The point he was making was that a court case isn't determined by the truth, it's determined by who argues best. So, when Congress is full of lawyers, instead of seeking the opinion of engineers and scientists and the rest of society, they just argue and whoever argues best passes laws.
It was on Bill Maher, I only know that's he point he was trying to make because I remember that episode. I love HBO :-)
[–]dangeraardvark -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 hours ago
Aaaand the top rated comment misses the point entirely. Par for the course. Move along.
[–]zoeypayne 12 points13 points14 points 9 hours ago
Rush Holt, FTW
[–]DaBake 8 points9 points10 points 8 hours ago
Rush Holt!
[–]genzahg 6 points7 points8 points 9 hours ago
The scientists and engineers are there. They advise the people who studied law and business so that they can apply that knowledge to their knowledge of law and business in order to make decisions.
It's more useful for a law-maker to have a thorough background in law than it is science. When they need to know scientific information, they can just ask.
As much as it sucks, we need professional politicians. Sure Construction Worker Joe says he can do a better job than Politician Jeff, but more than likely he would fail.
[–]spankymuffin 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago
Really, we need people to actually vote for and care about who represents them in Congress, local and federal.
[–]psenker 11 points12 points13 points 9 hours ago
Angela Merkel has a PhD in Chemistry. Upvote Germany.
[–]Remi305 86 points87 points88 points 8 hours ago
What exactly does this have to do with Atheism?
[–]Chumbaniya 68 points69 points70 points 8 hours ago
I've stopped asking this question. The real question is: what does /r/atheism have to do with atheism? The answer is the same as the answer to your question: pretty much nothing.
[–]Ebelglorg 6 points7 points8 points 8 hours ago
You mean atheism doesn't mean bashing every religion?
[–]Jimmy__Rustle 22 points23 points24 points 7 hours ago
This has nothing to do with atheism.
Everyone here is a brave PhD atheist genius scientist so they like to discuss the wisdom of Neil deGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan daily as all brave PhD atheist genius scientists do.
[–]learn2die101 64 points65 points66 points 10 hours ago
Lawyers and businessmen making economic and law based decisions. Doesn't sound that bad to me...
The real problem is whom we elect, not what their profession is. Sorry, NDT.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 21 points22 points23 points 8 hours ago
Probably better if economists are making economic decisions than businessmen.
[–]dulceestdesipere 8 points9 points10 points 7 hours ago*
And that's why we have the Federal Reserve Board of Governors.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago
Whose board is picked by the President by my understanding.
[–]meh100 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
It is a problem if certain professions, especially the more knowledgeable and relevant ones like science, are not represented, unless we can assume that people with economic and law backgrounds have a good enough background in science. But we can't, because by-and-large they don't. Because science is not at all a prerequisite to becoming successful in economics and law.
[–]pedreiro 31 points32 points33 points 9 hours ago*
How to farm karma: 1 - Get anything that has NDT on it
2 - Post it to /r/atheism
3 - ????
4 - PROFIT
[–]Ebelglorg 9 points10 points11 points 8 hours ago
This is so true and that's why its getting downvoted.
[–]gryphonlord 5 points6 points7 points 8 hours ago
Representative Rush Holt, the representative from my area, is a scientist
[–]36542854877 4 points5 points6 points 9 hours ago
Meanwhile in Canada:
Law, law, law, law, farmer, law, law, law...
source
[–]tossnear 5 points6 points7 points 6 hours ago
I personally think every single profession should be done by scientists.
I mean, clearly someone who spends his whole life studying a genus of spiders is the most intelligent person in the world, and should literally do every single activity.
[–][deleted] 11 hours ago
[deleted]
[–]Elf_Retch 48 points49 points50 points 10 hours ago
Scientists and engineers choose to be scientists and engineers because that's what they want to be.
It's also a completely different skill set. Just because you're good at math and science doesn't mean you'd know the first thing about being in public office.
[–][deleted] 10 hours ago
[–]scrash 14 points15 points16 points 8 hours ago
Well congress is supposed to be representative of the US. His point is that there is very little diversity.
[–]kestert 15 points16 points17 points 7 hours ago
I don't think Congress is meant to be representative of the US, I think it's meant to represent the US.
[–]Epicwarren 3 points4 points5 points 6 hours ago
Because the rest of the US is scientists and engineers? Why aren't plumbers and IT technicians employees in political office? Wouldn't that be more representative of the US?
[–]sheerheartattack 4 points5 points6 points 8 hours ago
If I'm honest, NDT is a professional circle jerker. He's no doubt qualified in intellectual discourse...but more often than not, he opts instead for clever platitudes. Which explains his popularity on reddit.
[–]ibhalf 4 points5 points6 points 7 hours ago
Reddit hates sound bites, except the sound bites Reddit loves.
[–]blackjackjester 2 points3 points4 points 8 hours ago
Except you don't need a degree to represent a population. Good luck working in an ER with a law degree. On the other hand, a doctor is more than capable to represent the needs and wants of their constituents.
[–]alwaysmispells1word 6 points7 points8 points 8 hours ago
Actually, much as I respect the man, he is wrong.
I want laws being passed and shaped mostly by people who have studied the law, and understand it.
I mean, I certainly want physicists and enginers doing work on space programs. I prefer my doctors to have backgrounds in health. Why would I want my laws shaped by anyone but experts in law?
[–]GregorMendel 10 points11 points12 points 9 hours ago
That's not really true. Check out the breadown of the 111th congress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_111th_United_States_Congress
[–]MuffinMopper 6 points7 points8 points 6 hours ago
If you look at that table...
About 58% of congressman have law or business degrees. 73% of senators have law or business degrees. In both cases its a majority.
[–]mase_face 10 points11 points12 points 9 hours ago
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ATHEISM!
Can we please start sort or reform on this subreddit? Mods? Some boundaries please?
I really enjoy reading good posts on /r/atheism, but this is just getting silly.
[–]Had_To_Switch 27 points28 points29 points 10 hours ago
They are busy doing science and engineering shit like they are supposed to be doing, NDT. Holy shit. Ever since that non golfing shit he's been losing me a little bit.
[–]IgottaQ3012 12 points13 points14 points 9 hours ago
There is definitely a reason why lawyers and businessmen strive for public office more than scientists and engineers. Personality and mind set certainly have a lot to do with it.
No one is supposed to be doing anything. Why shouldn't we have engineers and scientists be a part of public policy formation and be able to do their own thing. Bennie Frank did it.
I think most people would love to take a larger part (and have more control) in the political realm, but no one wants all the shit that comes with a public life. The media and the celebrity culture really hurt the potential pool of candidates. If you enjoy having orgies every weekend and toking up, you probably won't be seeking office anytime soon (no matter how qualified you are).
[–]SpruceCaboose 4 points5 points6 points 8 hours ago
I think he is just trying to express frustration that science, math, engineering, etc is being "attacked" by politicians who have no idea of the topics they attack. It wasn't phrased terribly well or in the most thought out way, but NDT probably was speaking off the cuff.
And you could always get engineers and scientists into politics. Most people of those professions aren't doing them in a professional capacity til they die, so there have to be at least some people with science/engineering backgrounds who could go into politics.
[–]larg3-p3nis 19 points20 points21 points 10 hours ago
Funny I was thinking about this today as an example of when NDT is just plain wrong. Call me crazy but I'd like the people in charge of law-making to actually know and understand the law. Maybe NDT thinks Law is a useless humanities study along with Philosophy, which he also seems to despise. For an admittedly smart guy he sure is pretty close minded about a lot of things.
[–]micebrainsareyummy 18 points19 points20 points 9 hours ago
I don't know. Perhaps the fact that only people with law degrees are making laws is why understanding law-making requires a law degree. Having more variation in leadership might make some of the laws more understandable by the general population. Of course, a non-lawyer would have to have a good layman's understanding of law as well as a really good law scholar to consult.
[–]rosencrantzisdead 9 points10 points11 points 8 hours ago
People tend to dislike laws because of their content. That part doesn't require a law degree. But laws require a form to be executed. And proper form requires a law degree.
For example, anyone can think of law saying "No loud music after 10pm in my neighborhood." The hard part is writing the law to deal with some issues:
What does "loud" mean? Could be decibel ratings. Could be a judgment call by the police. Could be decided by a judge. A good law would specify.
What qualifies as "music"? Could just be musical instruments. Could apply to any sounds. Could apply to just musical instruments.
When can you have the music on again? I said "after 10pm" but didn't specify until when.
What's the neighborhood parameters? And does the law apply to music that can be heard in your neighborhood but comes from other places?
It gets even more complicated than this with more complicated laws. Lawyers have to consider jurisdictional issues, past court decisions, how their law meshes with local, state, federal, and even international laws, and more.
I think a non-lawyer could still figure out the content, but it's difficult to understand how the form affects the content if you're constantly asking lawyers about the form.
[–]micebrainsareyummy 4 points5 points6 points 8 hours ago
My point is, because of the form the content is being chosen by one group of people. It is not impossible for a non-lawyer to fill the position if he or she chooses a legal consultant wisely. Most of the people making the most complicated laws are not doing everything themselves. They have a staff. Part of that staff could be a lawyer who adjusts the content of the law to fit the appropriate form. It is not much different than having someone on staff doing research and gathering background information.
[–]ClockIsTickling 5 points6 points7 points 8 hours ago
Law school's focus is on training lawyers, not lawmakers. There is a difference. It is something of an Americanism to think politician == lawyer. I don't think there is any other country on Earth that has nearly the proportion of lawyer-representatives we do.
[–]utcoco 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
Lawmakers don't really make laws. They have teams of experts who do all that.
[–]Valsalvation 2 points3 points4 points 8 hours ago
Just as the lawyers and businessmen who hold office need to periodically consult with scientists and engineers to understand the whole picture, scientists and engineers who hold office could absolutely consult with lawyers and businessmen when they need input. It's not as though the person holding office is doing his entire job by himself. He has subordinates who contribute a significant amount.
[–]narwhal420OAG 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
In Europe the politicians are engineers and scientists. Even China has engineer politicians.
[–]romulusnr 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
I posted this long ago to my FB. As I was chair of my group's endorsements committee, I've met a lot of local politicians and some of them are on my FB. One responded to this image with:
"Having lawyers make laws? Gee, that's like having surgeons do surgery!"
In other news, two engineers I was pushing for this election (Darcy Burner being one of them) both failed in the primaries.
[–]thorizzle117 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago
This is pretty dumb.
[–]DeamonKnight 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
there is a reason why Neil, there is a reason why. 1. politicians are full of shit 2. a decent scientist worth his weight is not 3. as soon as decent scientists get into the political arena they will become covered in shit 4. there is no escaping shit in politics. for it is the sewer of ideas. 5. scientist are not geared for shit clearing/ shit dodging 6. they are not good at flinging shit
[–]SaneAids 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago
I think Douglas Adams wrote that the only person who could do any justice as president, is the kind of person who would never want to be president.
[–]crj123082 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Those who can, do...those who can't, legislate.
[–]kescario 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago
Scientists and engineers are too busy actually contributing to society.
[–]yes_thats_right 3 points4 points5 points 4 hours ago
No, he's not right.
There is a reason that members of the legislature usually come from legal backgrounds and that is because this arm of the government is responsible for legislation, i.e. the law.
Why would scientists, with no legal background, be better suited for developing law than lawyers?
It is much better than lawyers shape the law and that they do this based on information provided by scientists, mathematicians, statisticians, doctors etc.
[–]ryantheyovo 6 points7 points8 points 8 hours ago
Ron Paul
[–]DrSmoke 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago
And yet he still acts retarded.
[–]blackjackjester 5 points6 points7 points 8 hours ago
A lot of people here seem to be of the belief that "lawyer" means "lawmaker". What is a law? It's a rule. Our laws are the rules set by which to run our country. Does a lawyer, by study and profession, somehow gain better expertise in how to create rules? I bet most parents would disagree. "Rule making" is universal across all professions. Saying that "Lawyers are there to make laws" is dumb since the only connection between the two is the word.
You do need lawyers to WRITE laws - because those laws needs to stand up to scrutiny.
The best argument I can come up with for the contrary is Patents. By the "Lawyers write laws" argument, Lawyers should also be the ones making patents. Good luck on that - Engineers and Scientists make patents - lawyers just write the patent to stand up to review. It is not the lawyer's job to make the technology - it is their job to secure it. The same way it is not a lawyers job to make the rules - but their job to document and analyze them.
I agree with NDT - Congress is not a profession that requires a law degree to be in. You are a rule maker, and a public representative - and I don't know how having vast knowledge of law helps you in that capacity - other than being trained to put up with the bullshit of other lawyers.
Also - what does this have to with Atheism?
[–]DJAXL 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago
I think Neil deGrasse Tyson has made it pretty clear that he's not an atheist. So why does he keep ending up on r/atheism?
[–]slightlyasleep 6 points7 points8 points 7 hours ago
Because we're fucking retarded.
[–]zacomer 4 points5 points6 points 7 hours ago
WHY THE FUCK IS THIS IN R/ATHEISM
[–]spacemonkey514 3 points4 points5 points 9 hours ago
Death to the infidels who insult the great prophet Tyson! Glorious upvotes of rational atheism!
[–]ortcutt 2 points3 points4 points 9 hours ago
Legislators write laws and need to understand the existing laws and regulations. Doing that can be learned on the job, but it actually makes a lot of sense that someone whose job revolves around laws and regulations would actually know something about the law.
[–]Givemedvotes 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
ATHEISM DOES NOT EQUAL SCIENCE. OP is a faggot
[–]overused-meme-alert 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
OP is a fag
AWUGAH
.
[–]Alexandur 1 point2 points3 points 9 hours ago
Err... you could also wonder why there aren't more lawyers in the engineering field, but that would be a silly thing to wonder.
[–]Sozin91 1 point2 points3 points 9 hours ago
Why are all the people who operate on brains, brain surgeons? Where are the mechanics and accountants? Where is the rest of life?
[–]fknbastard 0 points1 point2 points 9 hours ago
Kind of wish an economist like Paul Krugman would be in office but I imagine that it'd ruin him long term.
[–]Quizzelbuck 1 point2 points3 points 9 hours ago*
Why does he say that if he won't run him self? People have called for it.
[–]SolusLoqui 0 points1 point2 points 9 hours ago
What was this from?
[–]Domian 0 points1 point2 points 9 hours ago
It's also easiest for them to seamlessly get back into their previous jobs after serving their terms.
Taking a prolonged time out from your normal job is a bigger issue for other professions.
[–]dwyqxz 2 points3 points4 points 9 hours ago
I think his point is none of our politicians have any sort of background in areas that they are still passing legislation on.
Yea, scientists have degrees in areas of science and politicians have degrees in political science (or law or business or w/e), but most science doesn't have a direct impact on the general population (which includes people with backgrounds in all fields), it's much more indirect via R&D that gradually becomes new technology. Which isn't usually determined "good" or "bad" by the people who discover it as it is, but rather by those who choose to use it the way they personally see fit (which is usually, again, politicians). Politics by its nature impacts everyone directly through the legislation that's passed. So how can men who know little to nothing about the laws of physics and nature be responsible for determining the value of the space program (I take it this is NDT's main concern)? Or those who have absolutely no background in biochemistry or biomechanical engineering shut down stem cell research based purely off of irrelevant ideologies?
So yea, it doesn't make sense for scientists to enter into politics, but that doesn't mean politicians shouldn't have to inform themselves on subject areas they'll most certainly have to deal with time and time again. And NDT didn't enter the limelight until he became this political figurehead and science advocate that we're all familiar with. He has his roots in science and research (studied under Carl Sagan at one point, I think Cornell?), but he's managed to incorporate both of these aspects into his life quite successfully.
[–]SgtOddball 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
Gettin' shit done.
[–]AJB115 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
My interpretation of his point isn't him simply complaining that our politicians are nearly all lawyers. The issue is that it affects much of our policy. In the US, we have the Department of Energy, Nuclear Regulatory Commission, NASA, and countless other federal government agencies that are funded and directed by lawyers. These are organizations that require heavy science and engineering backgrounds, yet lawyers are the ones holding the purse.
Our government is making decisions to invest in companies like Tesla Motors, Solyndra, United States Enrichment Corporation, SpaceX, and others. Science advisors alone are not enough. Some of these companies are winners, and some are major losers backed by crony capitalism. We need politicians with science backgrounds having a fair say in these important issues as congressmen, senators, and governors.
[–]clownparade 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
Interestingly enough, in Wisconsin Ron Johnson used similar idea to defeat Russ Feingold. He has a pretty good TV ad where he said all washington has is lawyers, like Russ, and I am not one, and since the mindset of people was yea lawyers suck and washington isnt working, Wisconsin voted that dummy in.
[–]eagle0100 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
wait, politicians have professions??? since when?
[–]straydog13 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
yeah! all science belongs to atheism!
[–]lizlemonaid 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
Please see former congressman Vern Ehlers. Former physicist who served for almost 20 years. One of the nicest, smartest and level headed politician I've ever met.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vern_Ehlers
[–]Henos 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
Hmmm, yes, he's right!
Government spending and legislation shouldn't be administered by people with experience in law and business, I mean thats outrageous!
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
I'd be happy to have some economists in there.
[–]ikantspeell 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
I'd vote for him.
[–]flashvenom 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
see this is why I (gulp) dislike reddit. Posts like this get me all riled up and soon after slightly depressed and feeling helpless... but then I find a picture of a silly pussy cat and all is ok.
[–]Metsa -1 points0 points1 point 8 hours ago
What does this have to do with atheism you idiot?
[–]davianda 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
Isn't that kind of like asking why there aren't any scientist lawyers, or engineer airline pilots?
[–]bomount -1 points0 points1 point 8 hours ago
Then why doesn't he run for office?
[–]detlefcliff 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
Bill Nye for President!!!
[–]TheGreaterPublic -1 points0 points1 point 8 hours ago
this is beautiful
[–]cptqwashi -1 points0 points1 point 8 hours ago
Doing the useful jobs.
[–]duchovny 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
If someone wants to become a senator or other political figure then why the fuck would they study some sort of science or engineering program instead of law/business?
And why is this in r/atheism and not r/politics?
Downvoted like it should be.
[–]Dungareedoo -1 points0 points1 point 8 hours ago
And and, how does this with the belief that there are no gods? Keep it on fucking subject people!
[–]timeless1991 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
Doctors. He forgets doctors.
[–]dangeraardvark 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
BTW, good job taking an offhand comment constructed in a way to make a rhetorical point as if NDT was making some grand declaration on the way things ought to be. I'm pretty sure he knows why politicians tend to be lawyers. He doesn't need a snotty college student giving him a sarcastic internet lecture on the history of lawyers in politics.
[–]10erik01 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
Ron Paul was a medical doctor..Ronald Reagan was an actor..there's plenty of other examples
[–]pawnzz -1 points0 points1 point 8 hours ago
I remember in the Zeitgeist Addendum someone saying that politicians really have no means of actually solving problems, they simply legislate them away. The only people who ever solve anything are scientists, so why don't we have more of them working in government?
[–]bhig3 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
Are any scientists running for these positions?
[–]dr_orpheus89 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
You need experts to inform the law specialists, that's the key. I'm not opposed to non-law graduates becoming reps, but it helps to have a background in law. As a law student, it would be hard for someone without a background in law to write a statute with the correct language for it to be properly interpreted by the courts. I want more engineers and scientists, but don't denigrate the lawyers in the process. They're needed!
[–]themedicman 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
Why are all the posts on Reddit by...redditors? Where's the somethingawful posters, the 9gaggers, the imgurians? Where's the rest of...life?
[–]Sabu113 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago
Understanding the minute details of how to execute a study in a particular field doesn't make you necessarily better suited to interpretting the results from a variety of fields. The ideal congressman would be a renaissance man or an economist.
I say an economist rather than a natural scientist because so much of economic approach is readily applicable to a great deal of public policy and so much bullshit can be made if you don't understand the assumptions of the model.
[–]Jimmy__Rustle 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
There's one engineer in politics
[–]kestert 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
You mean to say that a lot of the people whose job it is to write laws are in fact people who have had careers in law? How is that not a bad thing?
[–]Sir_Negative 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
lelelelel XD
[–]spungie 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
I think if that man was President of the United States thing's would not only be better for America but better for the Planet.
[–]_SanD_ 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
And what has this picture to do with r/atheim ? Nothing.
[–]CaptainClearDay 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
What profession do all these programmers have?
IT, IT, IT, IT, IT, education, IT, IT, IT.
Where are the anthropologists? Where are the microbiologists? Where's the Rest of....life?
[–]AdmiralSkippy 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Why the fuck is this in /r/atheism?
[–]walking_strange 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
On the other hand, it stands to reason that lawmakers should have a good understanding of the law. This is also why they have cabinets and advisors, to inform/counsel them about subjects they don't grasp well enough to make an informed decision.
[–]massaikosis 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
well, neil, run for something! D.Tyson-2016!!
[–]iCaughtEmAll 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ATHEISM?????? If bronxwasborninsweden can answer this question, I will fly to wherever he lives and pay for an escort to give him fellatio.
[–]Scott_The_Phallas 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
He is agfuckingnostic.
[–]ienjoyrunning14 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Why is this in r/atheism? common misconception that being an atheist doesn't also make you a scientist
[–]ffz_ 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
RON PAUL! It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
[–]CT2902 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Every time I read one of his quotes I read it in his voice and it's spectacular
[–]Her3tic_UK 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Could say the same thing about the 'War On Drugs'.
[–]DoctorNeuro 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
Ron Paul is a medical doctor, an OBGYN I think.
[–]djereezy -1 points0 points1 point 7 hours ago
scientists are too busy figuring shit out... politics cant be figured out.
[–]Waja_Wabit 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
...there's an r/images?
[–]LOVES_TO_SPLOOGE69 -1 points0 points1 point 7 hours ago
engineering and medicine are more intimidating
[–]callmeRichard 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
The engineers are running China. Seriously... go look at there top politicians. Engineers make up the majority.
[–]Tahrnation 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
What profession do all of these botanists have
biology biology chemistry biology.
Where are all of the communications majors?
I guess what I'm saying is, if you're going about the business of making laws, having law as your profession makes sense.
[–]roy_boy_22 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
it's the same problem with teachers - why do they get some bullshit teaching degree instead of majoring in the subject they intend to teach?
[–]UncleDrunkle 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
This has nothing to do with Atheism...just because hes this subreddits hero does not mean it should be here...
[–]greasyfart 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Funny how r/atheism seems to think that anything that comes out of certain people's mouths seems to warrant praise and linking to to the almighty idea of there might not be any god. Seems a bit ironic.
[–]Biwin -1 points0 points1 point 7 hours ago
Us scientists have better things to do than get into politics.
[–]Orchidomegaly -1 points0 points1 point 7 hours ago
The scientist are isolated in labs away from human interaction where they belong. If they have people skills then they get a tv show like bill nye. Bill Nye is awesome. TV show > Politics
[–]yvan369 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
Laws are incredibly complicated. Not to say that scientists and other professionals aren't perfectly capable of understanding them, but it takes years of intense study to do so.
[–]LikeWizeCrakka 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago
How does this quote relate to atheism?
Not trying to be a dick, just wondering why this was posted in the atheism sub.
[–]quasimotor 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
This is clearly a statement made for rhetorical effect. Don't over analyze it.
Here's the point: too many politicians (and Americans in general) are completely scientifically illiterate. Therefore they cannot possibly make reasonably informed decisions about matters of SCIENTIFIC import, like stem cell research, space exploration, etc. Instead we are governed by anti-intellectual (read: anti science) religious zealots. Effectively relinquishing our leadership role I'm the world. Example: We stopped funding Fermilab with the Higgs within reach. Instead, within months the credit, reward, (joy) and future funding goes to the scientists in Europe. Cause we don't give a shit about understanding the world anymore. We've given up the pursuit that has led us to whatever prosperity we currently enjoy. Now 28th in education globally. Pathetic.
[–]literallyagooch 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
Man, sometimes he can miss the point so damn spectacularly.
[–]grandmatakesasquirt 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
Why the hell would somebody go to engineering school or med school to become a politician. I think its fairly obvious where all the scientists are. I would be worried about any scientist who is also a politician because that probably means they are a really really bad scientist.
[–]JingGuily 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
This is like going to a plane manufacturer and asking where are the politicians.
[–]masterofmeats 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
It appears that a fair amount of people in Congress are actually educators. There is also a large amount that were legislative staff or state legislatures. There is also 1 physicist, 1 chemist, 6 engineers, and 1 microbiologist. Here is a document with a break down of occupations of the 112th congress.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41647.pdf
[–]pittguy 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
This is one of the rare occasions I disagree with Neil. We live in a republic, the engineers and scientists elect the senators and congressmen to represent us. That's how our government works. Just like I don't want a congressman making my chipotle I don't want an engineer in Congress.
[–]joey1405 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
What about Herbert Hoover? He was an engineer...
[–]Always_Swims_Naked 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
As a lawyer I resent this.
[–]fani 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
Odd statement from NDT. For a man of logic, he failed to exercise it here.
Of course congress which deals with law making if filled with lawyers. Supreme court is filled with judges.
Just as any other field. A hospital is filled doctors and nurses. Where are the engineers, truck drivers, rest of .....life?
Bad NDT. For just this once.
[–]nothinrhymeswblorang 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Legislators (read: law-makers) are often lawyers for a reason. They understand the interconnectedness of statutory law (what they do) and common law, and where the two necessarily complement each other. They are trained in how to write laws.
Scientists, engineers, etc. are indeed important parts of the legislative process. Hence the pervasiveness of hearings involving these experts.
The US Congress is broken, but it isn't because many of the legislators are lawyers.
[–]Miss_anthropyy 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago
I wouldn't want a dentist removing my appendix.
I don't want an astrophysicist making my laws.
Besides, there is a somewhat diverse background in the chambers (more so in the House, which favors specialties, than the Senate). Representative Rush Holt, PhD, a physicist, hails from my home state of New Jersey. :)
[–]logicallyillogical 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
What if I told you, most scientist do not like public speaking.
[–]Gibblestein 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Eight out of the top nine government officials in China have engineering or scientific backgrounds and I think China is doing pretty well for themselves. I agree with this post, people with science backgrounds are plenty capable of helping run the country
[–]kvlt616 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago
Sociologists
[–]SexWithNoBabies -1 points0 points1 point 7 hours ago
Unfortunately, the scientists and engineers are doing real jobs instead of getting sucked into policy-making.
[–]BiBoFieTo -1 points0 points1 point 7 hours ago
Engineers would be right at home in Congress. It's almost all men.
all it takes is a username and password
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is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
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