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Sums it up pretty well. (i.imgur.com)
submitted 7 days ago by BlueElephants
[–]Ozymandiazzz 354 points355 points356 points 7 days ago
There have been countless protests in the Arab world against the Syrian regime. In Egypt they almost sacked the Syrian embassy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYlhbLW3tLc
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/04/syrian-embassy-london-protests
This cartoon is funny, but ignorant.
edit: added another link
edit2: spelling
[–]kostiak 126 points127 points128 points 7 days ago
Actually, instead of protesting, a lot of Arabs from all over the arab world came over to Syria itself to help the rebels fight their war.
[–]p222 27 points28 points29 points 7 days ago
you're right http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_SYRIA_MILITANTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-19-16-56-22
[–]Wxnzxn 16 points17 points18 points 7 days ago
Which, to be a bit cynical, probably worsened some things there, and made the conflict a lot more about religious and tribal differences than getting rid of a dictator and his military/secret police.
Too many cooks spoil the broth, and even if the insurgence is successful in getting rid of Al-Assad, I think it'll be a long time before there is truly peace in Syria. I can only hope that I'm wrong.
[–]kostiak 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
Didn't comment on whether it made it better or worse, just about the fact that the Arab world doesn't look at the conflict with inaction. But yes, you might be right that it might have made it worse.
[–]Wxnzxn 4 points5 points6 points 7 days ago
True, I didn't want to make it seem like you were wrong, or taking position for or against it, just wanted to comment on the issue in general.
[–]OKImHere 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Why does everyone on Reddit act like every response is a challenge?
[–]penkap1 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Even without outside influence, you cant remove the religious, sectarian nature of the Syrian conflict. Assad is supported by an Alawite minority, and much of the FSA is made up of the majority Sunni community that has been oppressed by Assad and the Alawites for a long time.
[–]Eugene_Dubs 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
The religious and tribal differences have complicated the Syrian uprising and made it more difficult to actually achieve it's goals, but I think it is a bit too much to say it has lessened the over arching driving force which is to kick Assad out.
Additionally non-Syrians coming to help in the uprising, whether out of pure sentiments of solidarity or with an outside agenda they are hardly to have been the catalyst that sparked tribal/religious differences. Assad (and his predeccesors), like most dicatators and autocrats, has been more than happy to use tribal conflicts to divide Syrians attentions away from his rule and on to each other. The influx of foreign fighters has certainly probably exasperated tensions, but may or may not have really been the cause of them. I'm also inclined to think given the enthusiasim that the Arab spring has instilled in people that these outside forces are much more likely to have altruistic intentions, even if they potentially may be providing a complicating factor. Such things are not unheard of, the Spanish civil war (against Franco) saw thousands of volunteers form regiments to fight against the fascists.
Of course an "ideal" system is not going to come immediately out of this uprising (if it succeeds). Getting rid of Assad will be like getting rid of a toxic container in your house that had given you cancer, you will still have to cure the ailments but it is a much easier task when the source those ailments is gone.
[–]trollwarIord 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
The revolution in Syria hasn't been a unified cause for a long time now and for some there's always been some religious stigma attached to it. Being that I'm first generation Syrian American and have been to Syria I can tell from firsthand experience that the muslims in Homs (I'm not saying this is unique of muslims in Homs rather I'm talking about them specifically because their city suffered the most damage from this civil war) didn't come off as people who want democracy. I am part of population of Syrians that is "culturally" Christian. What I mean by this is not many people publicly denounce their religion there and those that do are still seen as being associated with it anyway. Being that Homs was the closest major city to the place my family and I were staying in, we were there a lot. Apart from wearing some sort of religious symbol or verbal communication, the most common way muslims in the city could find out we were Christian is by the fact that our women weren't covered. In addition to giving them strange looks, they would sometimes openly criticize them without speaking directly to them. The most common being "Look at what she's wearing" in a demeaning way sometimes being followed by an insult that's along the lines of calling the woman a whore.
Most minorities support Assad. I personally think its because he protects those groups from discrimination by the vast majority and not because they prefer a dictatorship. Furthermore, I think they fear that Assad can only be replaced with a leader that will make living conditions more unfavorable for minorities. Basically, they have a rational fear of the country becoming an islamic theocracy.
I don't entirely agree with the way Assad has been dealing with the revolution, but I do think that things will only get worse if he falls. Unfortunately, the revolution was destined to fail from the start.
[–]dryrainwetfire 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
which isn't necessary a good thing, you shouldn't pick sides in a civil war.
[–]breakbread 42 points43 points44 points 7 days ago
This cartoon also perpetuates the ridiculous notion that this stupid movie is somehow at the center of all of this.
[–]thebaron2 4 points5 points6 points 7 days ago
How do you explain the attacks on other countries who don't have the same type of history as the US with the middle east?
While I agree than general relations between the US and mid-East certainly don't help, there have been equally vicious attacks on countries like Sweden and France where this same history doesn't exist.
This article mentions 100+ protestors outside the French embassy in Tehran because of Mohammad cartoons in a weekly publication there. The same article mentions the "al Qaeda-inspired gunman who killed seven people, including three Jewish children, in the southern French city of Toulouse in March..."
The Swedish cartoonist Lars Vilks had a frickin' BOUNTY put on his head after his cartoons came out.
You can even go pre-9/11 if you want back to Salmon Rushdie. Here's his Wikipedia page where you can read about the failed bombing attempt on his life way back in 1989 because he wrote a book!
Like I said, we have a heated past with the middle east that certainly doesn't help, but we are clearly dealing with a population that can be set off by a "stupid movie" or even a stupid drawing!
To ignore this is dangerous, IMO.
[–]feroxium -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago*
There have been equally vicious attacks on countries like Sweden and France where this same history doesn't exist.
France was not a small player in the medieval crusades. ;)
Might seem a bit far-fetched, but the jewish/arab conflict or the chinese/japanese conflict go back centuries as well. Some opposing countries/cultures might even be allies for a while, but old wounds are easily reopened, and every conflict just builds upon the previous one.
And just like many Europeans or Americans have no idea where middle eastern countries are located and what their histories are, there are many people there who have no idea how western countries differ from each other.
[–]grimm121 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
THat's just silly. Not one person involved in the crusades is left alive. To punish someone for what their ancestors did is ridiculous.
[–]hfgiugug 10 points11 points12 points 7 days ago
they don't want to acknowledge that the decades of american violence brought upon the muslim world is actually the deep reasons behind the outbursts... some people always reboot history to the point that fits their understanding (9/11 became day 1 of american history, embassy riots became day 1 of american relationship with arabs...)
[–]thebaron2 7 points8 points9 points 7 days ago
I'll ask you the same question that I asked the OP; forgive the copypasta but I doubt you're rechecking the thread so you probably wouldn't see my response to OP:
[–]Eugene_Dubs 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
It was pretty short sighted, even for mainstream media outlets, to automatically start baying "Muslim Rage" at protests turned riots at US embassies (particularly Libya) when it had only been a few months since the US had been bombing the country.
It's also pretty shortsighted to view any anger at western depictions of Islam as purely religious given how the US ideological mainstream has used Islamic/Muslim depictions to justify it's foreign policy, and Europe has used it to justify it's immigration policies.
[–]puffybaba 9 points10 points11 points 7 days ago
But isn't it? Remember how the muslim world reacted to that cartoonist awhile back?
[–]freeyourballs 0 points1 point2 points 6 days ago
Exactly. The reaction is completely off the hinges compared to the stimulus.
It would be like telling women that it is there fault for being raped because she had some skin exposed. What are women supposed to do? Wrap themselves up from head to toe with only their eyes ...oh wait....right.
[–]ersatz_cats 11 points12 points13 points 7 days ago
Exactly, except you give the comic too much credit saying it's funny. It's 5th-grade level juxtaposition with things that aren't even true.
[–]VendimionX 4 points5 points6 points 7 days ago
this is inaccurate, it's not only arabs its muslim street protesters and they hate animals so a dog would not be present
[–]Sugreev2001 7 points8 points9 points 7 days ago
I was about to say the same thing.Most Muslims,particularly in Arab Countries,consider Dogs unclean...on the same level as pigs.A camel would've been better suited lol
[–]Deadhippie 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Arabs feel like dogs are unclean because they are usually not domesticated in the parts where they are from so dogs are wild and run loose with diseases etc
[–]silent_soliloquy 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Mohammed preferred cats.
[–]GotKwestionz 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
I thought he preferred children...
[–]MxM111 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago*
Also, the dog is not a muslim. He/she is an atheist.
[–]wisdumb 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Also ignorant because Muslims hate dogs and would never own one.
[–]spacemonkey514 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
I have yet to see a political cartoon that is actually true. Political cartoons are somewhere between "t-shirt" and "bumper sticker" as legitimate ways of conveying ideas about complex socio-political issues. Yet, they always manage to make it to the top of r/atheism.
[–]CromStrongOnHisMtn 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4m4wbYc08k
[–]TrotBot 88 points89 points90 points 7 days ago
"The truth is that the numbers actually taking part in the protests were quite small. In Tehran for example, no more than 500 took part in protests chanting “Death to America”; in Lebanon no more than 200 people took to the streets; in Jerusalem around 300 protested; in Morocco the reports indicate that “hundreds of Salafists burned US flags”. The biggest reported demonstration was in Jordan, where it was claimed 2000 turned out. According to Al Jazeera the total number of people across the whole of the Middle East and beyond that came out to protest last Friday after prayers was around 5,000. This is in no way a “mass movement” of reaction. It is in fact very small and is actually being hyped up by the world media to look far bigger than it really is."
[–]DMDorDie 23 points24 points25 points 7 days ago*
http://www.france24.com/en/20120917-thousands-march-beirut-nasrallah-hezbollah-chief-calls-protests-film-muhammad-usa-libya This report has tens of thousands in Lebanon. Some have it into six figures.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19660294 This report has thousands in Islamabad, Pakistan (which, of course, isn't the Middle East).
http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/protests-in-kashmir-turn-violent/ Thousands of protesters in Srinagar, and a general strike (also not the Middle East).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19602177 Several thousand in the Sudan
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-09-13/middleeast/world_meast_yemen-us-embassy-protests_1_protesters-and-witnesses-security-forces-embassy-wall Thousands in Yemen (but only hundreds breached the embassy!)
EDIT: And please note, I'm not saying these represent a huge portion of the publics in the Islamic world.
But let's say we had a protest all over our country. Let's say the numbers were substantially smaller than these numbers, but they were in many different cities, just like these protests. And let's say there was much more limited rioting, many fewer deaths and injuries, and no major security breaches. We'd call it "Occupy Wall Street".
[–]Croxxie 7 points8 points9 points 7 days ago
"Several thousand in the Sudan" could be true. I left just prior to this but speaking to friends back there it seems that last wekend saw a significant amount of protestors.
EDIT: On a side note, it appears Youtube has been blocked in Sudan.
[–]Cyberslasher 21 points22 points23 points 7 days ago
Hyped up.
Because the news knows they get views for "FUCK MUSLIMS, AMIRIGHT?"
[–]TrotBot 5 points6 points7 points 7 days ago
Exactly, and even here in r/atheism, I'm seeing all sorts of popular posts about how irrational and evil muslims are, when this is a very small minority that is using the movie to gain relevance, on both sides.
Islam is a religion like any other, and we fight against all religions and their fundamentalists, but it seems for some that fight is an excuse for a darker hatred. The media is using this to whip up exactly that kind of hatred, and the christian fundamentalists who made the film are looking for exactly that kind of response against muslims.
[–]daftmau5 4 points5 points6 points 7 days ago
It's similar to the EDL or BNP doing demonstrations and then people in the Middle East thinking that all English people are racist and xenophobic
[–]TrotBot 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Exactly.
[–]kilo73 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
The Muslims that are protesting are as Muslim as The West borough Baptist Church is Christian.
[–]Sepulchural 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Deleted prior comment, sorry, mentally slow of me to not grock from your context that you were speaking as an atheist. Myself has been calmed per your orders.
[–]neanderhummus 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Actually it is a cultural thing, you know how we are in a culture where,'sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me"? Yeah, they don't have that. Even the educated Pakistanis and Saudis I talk to are using words like, "hurts those who are islamic' and and that they are told by Muhammed to defend all religions, which means attack anyone who attacks any prophet anywhere. Its not a deep darker hatred, they literally see it as a physical attack on their faith and have absolutely none of the "rolleyes and move on" that you get in the west. These are college educated smart people by the way. Literally no sense of any humor at all about this.
[–]rathead 3 points4 points5 points 7 days ago
we must seek the truth... and the world turns to sean hannity for answers.
[–]PtitSeb 4 points5 points6 points 7 days ago
Here is an attempt to show the difference between the Arab Spring demonstrations and last week's riots. I haven't read it really thoroughly, but the ratio seems to be something like 100:1.
[–]Fauxvoice 47 points48 points49 points 7 days ago*
Oh Lebabon only had 200 people protesting? That's so interesting because this Reuters article talks about the thousands protesting right now.
Edit: ""They slandered the purity of his birth, slandered his faith and his morals, slandered his Quran," Nasrallah told tens of thousands of cheering supporters, who had marched through southern Beirut's Shi'ite suburbs to protest against the film"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/18/us-protests-lebanon-hezbollah-idUSBRE88G1EO20120918
[–]SalishSailor 12 points13 points14 points 7 days ago
As atheists I'd think we'd be critical enough to realize that there may be more to the story than just ignorant "death to america" fanaticism. I mean, of course, I guess I'm an idiot for thinking this way, because the media never lies or misinterprets anything.
[–]jacklocke2342 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Nasrallah is treated as the last remaining emissary of god in Lebanon (this still resonates where I live in a majority shia lebanese city in America). If he says take to the streets, chances are a large number of the shia in Lebanon will do as they are told. He even came out of hiding to publicly call for a response (rare for him to do such a thing).
First off most outlets weren't even viewing it as "death to America" type events, they put it as simply religious fanaticism. Second, even the few outlets that acknowledged that the protests turned riots were probably more motivated by hostility to the US (or anti-Americanism as most put it), refused to acknowledge that maybe there are some actually good reasons why people might be pissed off at the US, in a, "why are they mad at us?" sort of way.
[–]EmmC92 36 points37 points38 points 7 days ago
That is most definitely NOT a Reuters article. That is Russia Today. RT has had allegations of exaggerating certain events by the likes of The Southern Poverty Law Center, the Economist, Human Rights Watch, and so on. I am not saying that the network is lying but their reporting should be taken with a grain of salt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)
[–]carlcon 16 points17 points18 points 7 days ago
Reuters article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/17/us-protests-lebanon-idUSBRE88G0YL20120917
May not agree with the "hundreds of" thousands article, but certainly in the thousands, and certainly more than the top comment is suggesting.
[–]RightousRepulican 16 points17 points18 points 7 days ago
If only there wasn't video evidence or something.
[–]dumnezero 4 points5 points6 points 7 days ago
You actually need to be an expert to count people from watching pictures of crowds.
It's not that hard to make a crowd look bigger or smaller with a camera/video shot if your chief editor says, "the corporate board likes/don't likes this protest make it look bigger/smaller". Unless there are millions in the streets like in Egypt then you kind of have no choice.
[–]Fauxvoice 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Yeah your right, I messed up. Upvoted ya. Regardless the protests were larger then 200 people.
[–]Infin1ty 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
I believe this is the link you were looking for. Regardless, there's nothing on Reuters regarding this protest, at least not that I can find.
[–]ZanderTirade 7 points8 points9 points 7 days ago
Nah, man, there's only 200 people in that video. Plus, they're not real Muslims. Also, I'm going to say "Islamophobe" now.
[–]SaltyBabe 3 points4 points5 points 7 days ago
They're fake muslim?
[–]ZanderTirade 10 points11 points12 points 7 days ago
According to a lot of apologists, yep. I probably should have ended my last post with /s, sometimes it's hard to tell when someone is being legit ridiculous or just kidding. There's clearly more than 200 in that video, every religion excuses those who do bad things by saying they're not true XReligionists, and I'm just sick to death of seeing the word "Islamophobe" lately.
[–]Adapt2Reason 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
I had a Muslim man tell me that all the Uganda Muslims fighting were actually Atheists because real Muslims would not commit violence...
[–]unvorsum 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
Whatever the camera points at is all that exists. Those protesters filled entire frames! What's that analogy of looking around a dark room with a flashlight? I think it's about consciousness, but it could be applied here in a way: If you go into a dark room and ask a flashlight to search for a part of the room that does not have light on it, the flashlight would be forced to conclude that there is light everywhere. In this case it's a camera and what the camera sees has people assuming that is all there is.
[–]Grimnirsbeard 3 points4 points5 points 7 days ago
5000 people protesting in numerous cities over a youtube video, I would say that is still significant even if it is not as massive as the media wants us to think. This is especially when people, however small a number, are being murdered because of it. I understand that these people are a minority, but just because the number of people being killed is in the double digits does not take away from the fact that this is happening. I have never heard of this kind of international response from any other religion over criticism and as long as it still occurs then posts like this one are not wrong.
[–]penkap1 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
People are not being murdered 'because of a video'. Radical extremist groups who seek to use the video as an excuse to advance their own political agenda have killed people. You're merely perpetuating their agenda by conflating their actions with the larger muslim community. It's akin to saying all Americans support timothy McVeigh or Abortion clinic bombers.
[–]mofoqin 12 points13 points14 points 7 days ago
That and the fact that a US Ambassador and 3 others were murdered. This story is being hyped because that is actually kind of a big deal.
[–]gimletglass 4 points5 points6 points 7 days ago
Except that the murder of the the ambassador was planned in advance and at most used the protests as a cover. Read past the headline sometime.
[–]mofoqin 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
I've read past the headlines but I haven't seen anything conclusive so I go by what's been confirmed. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
[–]lediablerouge 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Yes, they planned to murder him by smoke inhalation, the most reliable of assassin's implements.
[–]slif_831 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
wasn't that a pre planned and coordinated attack that wasn't related to the video at all
[–]ersatz_cats 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
It sure was. It was planned to coincide with the 9/11 anniversary, well in advance of the video.
[–]Fandorin 5 points6 points7 points 7 days ago
Are you fucking kidding me? There have been 54 deaths associated with these protests so far and you dare insinuate that this is minor and insignificant?
[–]penkap1 6 points7 points8 points 7 days ago
Citation needed.
[–]fuckinlovecats 3 points4 points5 points 7 days ago
why was this downvoted?
[–]penkap1 9 points10 points11 points 7 days ago*
Because facts get in the way of the narrative.
eta: and if they actually offered citation, it would show those deaths are being attributed to planned attacks by known terrorist groups and not the 'protesters'.
[–]Fandorin 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_diplomatic_missions_attacks
Right side of the page there's a summary column. Deaths are broken up by country with links to news sources at the normal bottom citation section.
[–]TrotBot 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
More people died in Bahrain when the pro-US government slaughtered its own people, who were demonstrating by the hundred thousand. More people died in Tunisia, and in Egypt, during their revolution, where again, hundreds of thousands were demonstrating against American backed dictatorships. Is it unfortunate people died? Yes. Is this coverage proportional to its importance on a scale of "small events" to "revolutionary earthquake". Absolutely not. The coverage is exaggerated, and is stoking the fundamentalists on both sides, which is its purpose. They are intentionally feeding the trolls.
[–]carlcon 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
How did this get upvoted? It's in quotation marks, so that's enough proof for us to accept it? Bullshit. Thousands upon thousands have marched in Beirut alone. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/17/us-protests-lebanon-idUSBRE88G0YL20120917
[–]DMDorDie 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Well, in fairness, it does have truthiness. Only one day (Friday) was mentioned, and the big protests in Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia and the Sudan had already happened, and the big protest in Lebanon was yet to happen. And other large protests were occurring outside of "The Middle East".
It's the "No, baby! I didn't cheat on you last night in our apartment!" defense.
[–]analrapist5 -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
They are the 1%
[–]lordofall10 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
I think that murderers arent being brought to justice is the issue. If a thousand people get recorded for murdering an ambassador, you'd expect a just people to turn them in, especially the ones not wearing masks.
[–]prince_nerd 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
According to this article, 20,000 muslims took to the streets in Chennai, India.. As an Indian, it makes me sad to see this happening in my country.
[–]staythepath 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Meanwhile, China and Japan still hate the shit out of eachother.
[–]PenguinEatsBabies 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Are you fucking retarded? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPt-7g_TKcQ
[–]embrigh 50 points51 points52 points 7 days ago
I can explain this. Arabians do not give a flying fuck about other Arabians.
You could probably make a fairly accurate flowchart that goes something like this. The tribes in southern Yemen all hate each other, and they collectively hate the northern Yemenese, whom both despise the Saudis, who despise people from Oman, who all hate Iran, and so forth. There is massive violence for local reasons, it's why when Iraq fell it became quite dangerous there because everyone could suddenly settle scores. Ironically enough Saddam kept the peace, too bad he was a mass murdering psychopath.
[–]kiwifuel 43 points44 points45 points 7 days ago
An old Pashtun proverb.
Me against my brother, me and my brother against my family, my family against the clan, the clan against the tribe.
And so on.
Paraphrased of course, but you get the idea.
[–]Croxxie 9 points10 points11 points 7 days ago
One of my favourite proverbs. My friends elderly pakistani father says this at every opportunity.
[–]daren_sf 6 points7 points8 points 7 days ago
Serious question: Why?
Humans get more done by working together rather than against each other. So I'm curious how this 'mind set' would have developed.
My first thought would be extremely limited resources (water, food, etc.). Hence it's 'every man for himself'.
[–]mortalkonlaw 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
This is exactly how I handle college sports.
[–]chuckles2013 -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
It's the same bullshit in the Mafia: nothing is more important that 'the family'. Then one brother kills the other to protect the family honor. Then revenge must be taken.
[–]SalishSailor 17 points18 points19 points 7 days ago
I can explain this too; the cartoon was made by someone with a political agenda to make the arab world look as ignorant as possible, instead of someone who might want to explore the issue with any amount of intellectual honesty.
Don't get me wrong here; I hate idiotic Islam as much as I hate idiotic Christianity. But my innate skepticism (the same skepticism that led me to atheism) makes me wonder if we're being somewhat misled about the issues erupting in the middle east.
[–]paradizot78 12 points13 points14 points 7 days ago
This illustrates how much of the muslim world is actually rioting:
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/247744_521594047858065_12997608_n.jpg
Why is it getting blown out of proportions in media is a very good question.
[–]ordinia 6 points7 points8 points 7 days ago
Your math is wrong. 9,000 / 1,211,157,707 is less than 0.001%, not 0.01%. Thus an even smaller fraction of muslims are rioting than this table would have you believe.
[–]paradizot78 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
sorry, not my math. just sharing this photo.. but, good catch.
[–]DonkeyDongRacing 7 points8 points9 points 7 days ago
Agenda? On r/atheism?
Someone stop the twitters
[–]milkmymachine 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Weird right? A political cartoon with a political agenda!
[–]embrigh 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Well I'm referencing what my cousin has told me, who's Yemenese. He is referencing his experience living there and he's also Muslim and he has quite a bit to say about this. Now granted he wants an Islamic spring more than an Arab spring, but he gets upset that the Saudis won't help anybody and they are crazy rich but everyone flips their shit to point the finger at Israel. While he hates Israel, he told me that he also hates the fact that the Saudis can just "unite in hatred" and not have to actually help anyone. He told me if they really cared they could give a lot more relief to the Palestinians, but the idea that they would help one another is a pipe dream.
You are correct that there is something more behind the surface, but the problem is that the majority of the denizens of the middle east may actually have the same views as the comic strip. Sure the people on the top love to push the right side but that's because they don't have to deal with left side.
[–]laforgevasion 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
sound kinda 'stiff-necked' to me. no no, don't arrest me! but wait, the first amendment says th-ahhhhh...
[–]redbeardo 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Ah yes, and many hate lannister house as well.
[–]chuckles2013 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
It's not an excuse, but in order to keep the peace in Iraq, Saddam had to be a mass-murdering psychopath.
[–]dumnezero 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
not to mention the abandonment of palestinian refugees...
[–]MikeMan557 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
So they're the idiot slimeballs
[–]BazouzaBazouzi 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Arabs bro not Arabians
[–][deleted] 7 days ago
[deleted]
[–]ThisReallyOldLilLady 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
You guys really should listen to this guy.... He is, after all, the Lord Jesus Christ....
[–]econ664 10 points11 points12 points 7 days ago
A lot of the criticism of muslims is well deserved. But what some people don't seem to realize is that the flap about the video was just a pretense to show hatred for America and the west. Yeah, some people are batshit crazy but a lot of people will just grab onto any reason to violently protest America.
I've noticed most people grab onto the "America is bombing our country, or countries like us" reason.
[–]mememonkey 19 points20 points21 points 7 days ago
People really believe this sort of propaganda? Oh yeah, Muslims aren't upset about the 28 people Obama killed with drone attacks in Yemen last week, they're upset about this movie. Fuck off.
[–]Fooza 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
This is also what I heard. However it is so damn ahrd to get real information anymore i never know what I can trust.
[–]Irishguy317 6 points7 points8 points 7 days ago*
As it turns, the video was not the reason behind the initial attacks, which were preplanned, even prior to the release of the trailer (which has been around for some time prior to the riots and killings). The trailer was used as an excuse by the state department, and the Muslims to follow, to release their rage.
[–]sshan 5 points6 points7 points 7 days ago
http://informalinfo.blogspot.ca/2012/02/poll-100-doesnt-like-being-bombed.html
The US has killed about two orders of magnitude more Muslims than died in 9/11. That could be part of the reason.
[–]I-exist 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Only 32 Muslim died during 9/11 so i think its even higher them that.
[–]GoodOnYouOnAccident -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
If 100 people were trying to kill you, would you kill them to save your life? I sure as fuck would. Obviously not all of the Muslims that have been killed are complicit in terrorism/a desire to destroy America, but many are, and unless you think our military enjoys intentionally killing civilians for fun (I happen to not think this), then in most cases it is the fault of the people that we're fighting for endangering the civilians. Should we be fighting them in the first place? I think only if they attacked us first. So... Afghanistan? Yes. Iraq? Hell naw.
[–]MaFknSimba 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
December 7th, 1941: 2,402 Americans killed August 6th & 9th 1945: 90,000–166,000(Hiro) & 60,000–80,000(Naga) Japanese killed Lets say 120k in Hiro and 70k in Naga: 190k total/2,402= ~80 deaths per American loss (not counting lives lost in actual combat of WWII)
September 11th, 2001: 2,996 Americans killed
If someone has the numbers of civilians casualties from the "War on Terror". I will be very happy.
BTW: im not trying to take a stance, just figuring some shizniz out.
[–]wamsachel 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
How many of the middle east deaths have come from Muslim on Muslim sectarian violence?
[–]ionlyvoteup 9 points10 points11 points 7 days ago
This is horribly wrong. I am really saddened by all this anti-islam hate recently on Reddit. It's kind of scary - if you ask me, we're the ones acting like the second part of that picture (replacing the word Americans with Arabs). They have been protesting constantly but it does not get any media coverage at all (besides channels like euronews)!
I'm actually so disappointed with the bias-ism on Reddit these days. I can't even explain how sad it makes me and, more importantly, uncomfortable.
A quick google search shows you how ignorant the comic is. EDIT: Ozymandiazzz has explained it already.
[–]LaBamba00 5 points6 points7 points 7 days ago
Cartoonist's page: http://www.cagle.com/2012/09/the-arab-street/
[–]ScottHouser 10 points11 points12 points 7 days ago
Are you really so dumb that you think the only reason they hate us is because of one stupid video?
[–]omniforce 7 points8 points9 points 7 days ago
Of course not, but considering it is the only reason they are citing while protesting, it's kind of hard to look past.
[–]doree 9 points10 points11 points 7 days ago
They actually really liked the West before that hit Youtube
[–]mslade 3 points4 points5 points 7 days ago
They actually are a unanimous group that all think the same thing.
/sarcasm
[–]mrlanious 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Yeah and they're all plotting plans to unfreedom us on our own turf. 'Mericah!!!
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
That's right. They've got a whole bunch of other idiotic reasons aswell.
[–]ScottHouser 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Yeah, what a bunch of retards being mad at the US for botched drone strikes killing their civilians.
[–]Aiyon 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Interesting thing happened at school today. Our forms have to do assemblies, and myself and a friend suggested this topic. The teacher said we couldn't, because they couldn't risk a similar "retaliation" occurring against the school. The 2 responses to him were basically:
This is an in-school assembly. Unless you're scared that there's extremists in the school, I don't understand the problem.
We have a CCF. We have guns. Only an idiot will attack, especially considering that given 1, they would be a member of the school and know we have people capable and willing to use the rifles.
Is this not a fair argument? If they're willing to attack us, we should be allowed to defend. We have lethal and non-lethal rifles, we'd use the latter unless necessary.
[–]mrlanious 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
What a shallow and uninformed way to think about people and situations probably this cartoonist knows nothing about first hand. It's one-dimensional and generalising. Thumbs down.
[–]StoicJim 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Yes, ALL Muslims are like that. Way to foster a stereotype. Good job.
[–]Blzbba 2 points3 points4 points 7 days ago
TL;DR - Muslims suck
[–]bubaduba 10 points11 points12 points 7 days ago
I have to say that I think some members of /r/atheism (and for that matter, reddit at large) have shown their true colour in reaction to this whole incident. The argument no longer seems based on the effects of religion but has devolved into more or less overt bigotry.
The irony is that the murders have become a pretext for indiscriminate "hating of muslims" in much the same way as the videos are for hatred of the west. On both sides, the true issues are concealed by simple vilification of the "enemy" leaving neither capable of facing their own flaws.
[–]Irishguy317 14 points15 points16 points 7 days ago
As opposed to something you're more comfortable with, like hating Christians?
[–]stuckinmo 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
You can only criticize white peoples' religions. Anything other than that is bigotry.
You have to be tolerant of intolerance otherwise you're a bigot for not supporting bigots.
[–]Irishguy317 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
I was hoping this was bubaduba's reply. Plus one nonetheless.
Yes, this is our true color. We speak our mind about idiotic Bronze Age religions and we don't give a shit if you're offended. If you don't like it, then storm an embassy.
[–]SmallHandsT-Rex 3 points4 points5 points 7 days ago
Atheist motto: if its drawn, it must be true!
[–]four24ever 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
irony
[–]ZeroGSpaceCow 3 points4 points5 points 7 days ago
I thought muslims weren't supposed to have dogs?
[–]bamp 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
It's because they can't keep their paws off that tasty bacon!
[–]mattman59 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Technically the prophet said dogs (like pigs) are unclean but in many parts of the Islamic world, dogs serve too many purposes to be shunned. Most of the urbanized mid east owns cats, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi all cat people. On the other hand you go to a place like Afghanistan where a Kuchi dog is your entire early warning security system.
[–]kiwifuel -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
Ironic that they chose Syria, hundreds are being slaughtered daily.
[–]DonkeyLickingIsWeird 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
That's the joke.
[–]sparr 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Why is the guy on the left not present in the second frame?
[–]mab3oos 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
it's this way because they're allowed to protest against the US. For Arab dictators, who are supported by the US, letting the people protest and vent their anger at the US is an easy choice. But, it's hypocritical to support protests calling for an end to a dictator by people led by a dictator.
[–]LastAssMartian 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
What happened to first guy in the image ?
[–]Confusedandlost123 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
um... i get the point, that there are larger issues that they should concern themselves with, but it's worth noting that they aren't sleeping over Syria. there is an all out civil war going on there, with arms and deaths on both sides. Also, there is major political moves by surrounding muslim nations either in support of Assad, or of the people's movement. our media just doesn't publicize it because there's no 'hit home' message
[–]gagarinparty 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
This is bullshit. It leaves out context, like the drone strikes all over the Arab World. This shit doesn't happen in vacuum, you know.
[–]Highsinburg 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
It wasn't because of the video, just say'n.
[–]cuddles666 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
The riots aren't about the movie. It's just an excuse for political factions taking advantage of the situation to kill foreigners.
[–]josebolt 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
I thought that they are not to fond of dogs in the middle east?
[–]Punkwasher -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
We gave them internet, so they could shop online, chat with each other and watch porn... you know... to calm them down a bit...
but it just made them ANGRIER!!!
[–]Randompaul -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
They wouldn't have a dog, they hate dogs.
[–]lord_gif -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
Good job dude, now they'll be sending nukes on us.
[–]primus202 -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
Just shows how anti-American some people in that region are such that they care about some random guys ignorant video rather than the actions of a government in their backyard.
[–]JLord -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
As soon as a non-Muslim does something it seems to provoke far more violent responses than anything done by other Muslims. Almost as though they are looking for any excuse to harm non-Muslims.
[–]dcawley 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Nothing says racial and religious tolerance like portraying all Muslims as wearing burqas, turbans and fez hats. You know, like Sallah!
[–]HugeNJapan -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
Your daughter come to my house and she KICK MY DOG!
[–]buckybone -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
Muslims killing Muslims isn't anything new or special, it's been happening since Islam's founding. America is just a neon light that they can all aim at.
[–]gguy123 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
To be fair... USA.. same way.
"50 US soldiers died today when an Afghan. ...." In other news Chic Fil A owner announces..."
[–]ak2402 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
It does sum it up pretty well in the way that those on the right part of the picture are the same ones who are causing those thousands of deaths in Syria!
[–]Dentyme 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Im sorry, couldn't read the whole thread on my phone.
But does any one know why it became such a big fuzz as it acutely is. It seems like other things that could've provoke even bigger reaction have been made, and yet no reaction.
Then again, this might have been the last drop in the glass.
[–]OFTandDamProudOfIt 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Thank God I live in America, where there are no hardball religious nuts and no one ever riots.
[–]omgnomgnome 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
That's what Fox news wants you to believe. 1000 people act up and one billion people are going about their business. Feeding hate is a multimillion dollar industry in the US.
[–]CheFlegel 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Armed rebels*
Unless they are supposed to be mad at the rebels, because they should be. Fighting in the middle of civilian populated areas, thousands of video exerts of them abusing the civilians in the civilian areas they set up their base of operations.
[–]chodesniffer 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
I still have no idea what video everyone is so upset about.
[–]sweet_brunette 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
just gonna insult the islam on reddit no prob man..
[–]atb1183 -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
where's the guy on the ground, dead from smoke inhalation?
(too soon?)
[–]silverss92 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
The biggest flaw with the photo is that there would be no dogs. Muslims do not have dogs as pets since prophet said you cant pray covered in dog fur. Cats are okay.
[–]saberishungry 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Muslims can't have dogs? If that's true, TIL.
I'm honestly curious why, as I don't know much at all about Islam. What's the difference between a dog shedding and a cat shedding on you in relation to prayer?
[–]iforgotagain42 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Fun story: know how the crazy churches like to bus people out to voting stations for free on elections and rallies...
The Arab world does this too. Except its usually apparently done along the lines of: come get on the bus, we need a protest, free lunch with sometimes even cash bonus for being crazy.
Source: former Iranians and Jordanian friends.
[–]okan931 -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
can somebody explain why /r/atheism is such a dickhead against religions....
[–]Buttercupsman 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
No that dosen't sum it up well at all... I sure a lot of you would like this to be true, because it's easy... It's easy to believe that, because of their religion, the entire muslim community reacts this way, but that is a childish and skewed way of looking at a very complicated situation.
[–]monopixel 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
What happened to the guy on the left?
Nice, r/Atheism, perpetuate a right-wing american talking point that is a lie.
[–]Vranak 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago*
This comic betrays at utter contempt for or disinterest in what's really going on there. Why would Libyans be upset about what was happening thousands of miles away across many national borders in Syria? They've got their own problems to worry about. Stupid.
[–]Airazz 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Sorry, but this picture is fucking stupid. There's no way a muslim like that would allow a dog to be near him.
Case in point.
[–]Salmontaxi 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
"atheism" wat
[–]rpad 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
I think most are missing the point. When the 9/11 anniversary came, the world was prepared to commemorate the terrorist attacks, which would have been a big publicity against Muslim extremism. Instead of that, the Muslims fired up their protests about an irrelevant youtube video. Great way to wash away the relevance of 9/11. And then you hear western leaders trying to act sensitively to the apparently pointless Muslim outrage. I'm sure some extremists are laughing their asses off right now. "They tried to commemorate the thousands of dead from 9/11 and earn some sympathy in the world, but we reversed that by protesting about an irrelevant video." This is like a spit into the face, or by internet vocabulary, its a huge trolling.
[–]bradwasheresoyeah 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
The guy in brown got the hell out as soon as people started yelling.
[–]jaber2 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
It's ok for moslims to kill other moslims, as long as they say the other side is against islam.
[–]jxj24 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
So where is the single guy from the first panel who doesn't have a hooked nose? Even the dog has one.
Although to be fair, we have no idea about the woman's nose. Nor about pretty much anything else about her, either...
[–]SloppyPuppy 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
This picture is wrong because Islam forbids having a dog.
[–]hello3titties 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
False. Muslims cannot own dogs.
[–]Reljin 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
"These protests are a bad image for Egypt," said a Cairo street vendor named Ahmed. "Of course I'm against insulting Islam, but it's the undereducated, poor people who are out here causing problems."
"All I want for Egypt is security and stability," he said. "And as you can see this isn't it."
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-09-12/middleeast/world_meast_egpyt-us-embassy-protests_1_protesters-attack-black-flag-american-flag/4
[–]guess_twat 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
"almost sacked the Syrian embassy" - That sums is up pretty well, since they did attack an American embassy and kill an ambassador.
[–]GoodTimesDadIsland 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
oh great, another dumb anti-islam thing made by an ignorant white man.
[–]Food_Negotiator 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
This is so off it's sad. Thought people of reddit were more informed then this..
[–]ST34 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
WHY.... This sums up nothing.... The Arab countries are in ruins because of their love for Syria..... Other than that.. The countries must take responsibility for the excessive freedom of speech it gives.... I am not saying that what happened to the embassies is justified, but why must you allow someone to act as a catalyst.... Invoking death should be a crime in my pov
[–]Koletrainwreck 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
What's going on with that guy and his dog on the angry side.
[–]GhostOfImNotATroll 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
The thing is, a good chunk of conflict in the Arab World is Arab states vs. other Arab states. Of course, the US and Israel do fuel most of that conflict, but it's worthy to note that most of the Arab states don't exactly like each other either. But, as all states do, they will unite behind a common enemy the same way the US and USSR teamed up in WWII (for comparison).
[–]Hugh-Jaardvark 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Very true, very depressing. Why would anyone be more annoyed about a shit film of an historic figure than the current maiming and killing of their 'family in faith'.
[–]taurus45 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Seems 100% correct to me..
[–]Turtley 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
That's some ignorant fucking shit, right there.
That makes me angry.
[–]HerpityDerp 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
Well... this definitely ain't gonna end anytime soon....
[–]poorbowelcontrol 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
This cartoon while funny is not a satire of reality, but a caricature of the west's distorted perception of a culture we have no understanding of.
[–]Amryxx 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
I don't know what it actually sums up, because over here we have fundraisers, campaigns, etc. to help out Syria.
Although come to think of it, I'm not sure which side said campaigns are supposed to be helping. Probably the rebels, but I do remember a press release about six months ago by the Syrian ambassador.
[–]GotKwestionz -1 points0 points1 point 7 days ago
Have muslims seen this?
[–]RightWingWrite 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
One question... why is he an "idiot slimeball"? he's simply an inidividual expressing his own opinion. Oh wait... I'm on a communist website.
[–]StoneTech 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Please, tell me more about how all 300+ million arabs feel about genocide. (Just because it isn't reported in Western media doesn't mean there's no outrage)
[–]Piss_Lizard 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
umm... what? Who do you think is fighting in the FSA?
[–]rageblock 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
can anyone tell me what this is about i haven't watched the video and stuff
[–]yyx9 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Serious question; where is the place that manufactures the "bowling ball with a fuse" bomb? I think it's highly inefficient. I mean, it doesn't disguise itself well, it seems hard to handle / maintain while running (Batman could do this well) and generally awkward. I've seen this illustration of a bomb my entire life, and I have no idea where it comes from.
[–]vladAKAdaddy 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
lets take the extremists and stereotype according to them, very "rational" of you folks
[–]Mendetus 0 points1 point2 points 7 days ago
If you honestly think the violence is one-sided you need to read some books. Just to clarify before I get "history is written by X" try international.
[–]johnturkey 1 point2 points3 points 7 days ago
Why is the guy who made the movie a Slimeball?
Comedy often offends the weak minded.
[–]thyhorrorcosmic 1 point2 points3 points 6 days ago
it irritates me that people are being condescending to the dude that made this film. regardless of your opinion on this dudes level of intelligence or his demeanor, the fact remains he had every inalienable right to make it.
[–]Softice4 0 points1 point2 points 5 days ago
Silly cartoon. Dogs are not so dumb
all it takes is a username and password
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is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
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