this post was submitted on
1,433 points (64% like it)
3,244 up votes 1,811 down votes

atheism

subscribe1,181,083 readers

3,888 users here now


Help Atheist Organizations!

Voting is done:

SSA: #47 with 4387 Votes

FBB: #56 with 3162 Votes

CC: #81 with 2248 Votes

Thanks to all who voted! (full results)


Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here. Please read our FAQ.

Please link directly to any images or use imgur to avoid being flagged as blogspam

Recommended reading and viewing

Thank you notes


Related Subreddits <--the big list

GodlessWomen YoungAtheists AtheistParents
BlackAtheism AtheistGems DebateAnAtheist
skeptic agnostic freethought
antitheism humanism Hitchens
a6theism10 tfbd AdviceAtheists

Events
10/5-6 NAPCON2012 - Boston
3/28-31 AA Convention - Austin
Giving
DWB/MSF fundraiser
Kiva lending team
FBB's Appeal to Freethinkers to Fight Cancer
Camp Quest
Ex* Groups
ex-Muslim ex-Catholic ex-Mormon
ex-JW ex-Jew ex-SistersinZion
ex-Bahai ex-Christian ex-Adventist
Assistance
Coming Out
Atheist Havens
Start an Atheist Club at Your School

Chat: #reddit-atheism on irc.freenode.net

Watch: #/r/atheism on reddit.tv

Read The FAQ


Submit Rage Comic

Submit Facebook Chat

Submit Meme

Submit Something Else

Read The FAQ

a community for

reddit is a source for what's new and popular online. vote on links that you like or dislike and help decide what's popular, or submit your own! learn more ›

top 200 commentsshow all 220

[–]8rekab7 93 points94 points ago

I work in a physics lab.

Believe me, you do not want a physicist to speak at anything other than a conference.

[–]cn1ghtt 24 points25 points ago

Even then....

[–]rickscarf 9 points10 points ago

But, comic sans!

[–]russlo 16 points17 points ago

Cosmic sans.

[–]RICKisFunny 3 points4 points ago

Because this comment had only four upvotes, i'll explain the joke!

[–]Ragnarok94 1 point2 points ago

Oh dear... Why?!

[–]LonelyBrotha 0 points1 point ago

I saw this posted before and one of the top comments was just this.

[–]odious_fruit 107 points108 points ago

I began my eulogy for my mother with this quote from Richard Dawkins:

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here."

[–]johnterrancecloth 86 points87 points ago

If I quoted Dawkins at my mother's funeral, I'd be buried with her.

[–]Andy284 14 points15 points ago

If it was because of religious reasons, you could probably get away with it if they didn't know who it was from, as it has a vaguely pro-life tone if you don't know the context.

[–]mash3735 33 points34 points ago

worthit.jpg

[–]sirwatermelon 9 points10 points ago

If I may be so bold, I doubt that those who are so strongly opposed to Dawkins would know his work well enough to pick his quotes out of a line up.

Quote, just do not attribute, it's a eulogy not an academic paper.

[–]Coolfuckingname 0 points1 point ago

Nicely put my friend.

[–]EmperorKira 10 points11 points ago

TL:DR; be glad your mother didn't swallow.

[–]Creampied_Ur_Mom 0 points1 point ago

Indeed.

[–]goodtide 3 points4 points ago

That's actually pretty clever. Come on guys.

[–]Jineran 2 points3 points ago

Cum on guys FTFY

[–]Dahggboerh 21 points22 points ago

One of my good friends just died in an accident, and thinking like this has really helped me come to terms with things in my own way and without having to participate with all of the people who are saying that he's in "heaven" and is "looking down on us" or "he is with god now."

I too, want this read at my funeral when I die.

[–]DODODklum 0 points1 point ago

The problem is, humans aren't their bodies. They aren't even their brains. humans are the proccessing of information that happens in the brain. When this processing stops, you are no more and you will never be.

[–]Exigeuse 21 points22 points ago

I wasn't very orderly to start with.

[–]Binon 4 points5 points ago

...I was about to fix that for him..."not a bit of you is gone, you have just tended more towards equilibrium."

Talk of entropy will be down-voted.

[–]QuasarMonsanto 15 points16 points ago

When I die, I want a typesetter who knows what the fuck he's doing.

[–]HBNOCV 59 points60 points ago

This text makes me kind of sad.

Of course the energy will not be destroyed. Of course the atoms of your body won't cease to exist. But a person is not the atoms that make up the body surrounding it, nor the energy, but an extremely complex arrangement of these two. Only the intricate and beautiful formation of neurons within our brains are responsible in forming consciousness, intelligence and finally personality. The moment that the body fails, the beloved person is erased. This is what the spouse, what the mother is grieving about, not the destruction of the deceased one's physical form.

People die and then they are gone. An atheist is - sadly - forced to accept this as a matter of fact. It is this understanding however that should give us the power to make the most of the life we have right here, right now. Therefore in my opinion, this quote is esotericism and won't help us in any meaningful way.

[–]officepolicy 16 points17 points ago

It is very common to separate our consciousness, intelligence, and personality from the rest of the matter in the world. But our thoughts, our feelings are just expressions of our environment. Whatever you can define as "yourself" was conditioned by the environment it came out of. Thus it is also fair to say that whatever came after you is a continuation of the conditions you imparted on the universe. A physicist only applies this theory of conservation to matter and energy. A Daoist would apply this thinking to all phenomenon that can be experienced.

[–]prostaglandin 0 points1 point ago

While it's fair to that say our matter and causal ripples in the universe exist indefinitely, there are a number of metaphysical stances on identity and personhood--all well-argued--that are at odds with each other. I should point out that those stances tend to separate "us" from our bodies, as you pointed out. TL;DR there's no consensus on this issue because it's philosophical.

BTW I'm a materialist

[–]Iazo 0 points1 point ago

That's a monist approach to the world, but does not take into account the theory of information.

A person is information, and information can be destroyed. Once a person is dead, the information that they contained is simply gone. It does not 'go' anywhere.

[–]officepolicy 0 points1 point ago

"A person is information," that is a very odd statement to me. Sure the information they kept in their brain is gone in that form, but that information affected their actions, which affects others' actions. They may have even taught some of the information to other people, and so the causal chain goes on and they are still an essential link.

[–]Iazo 0 points1 point ago

And? The original information is still gone. Not to mention that, depending on how accurate quantum theory is, there is a possibility that the original information can never be inferred from its consequences alone.

[–]EscherTheLizard 7 points8 points ago

I knew there was a good reason why I found this unsettling, and you just articulated it. Thanks.

[–]howbigis1gb 3 points4 points ago

Aye. I'm a strong agnostic and I don't think there's any reason to believe in the afterlife. People seem to ignore the fact that what is being mourned about is the loss of information.

Like in the sand. Information can indeed be created and destroyed.

[–]pauly_pants 0 points1 point ago

Even when we're alive, there is nothing constant. All cells die and are replaced. Even the connections that our neurons make to each other change.

[–]BraveFrakingToaster 0 points1 point ago

I also have to agree that this is much less an atheist/scientific quote, and much more a New Age movement sentiment. That implication is that energy is life force, not the scientific concept we use to account for all motion and action. There's a certain sadness i get when it subverts the mystery of consciousness in a meat machine to just call it all energy...>This text makes me kind of sad.

[–]imtoooldforreddit 0 points1 point ago

tldr: yolo!

[–]CoryM_91 8 points9 points ago

Someone posted this to /r/WTF? WTF!?

[–]aroondeep 0 points1 point ago

It seems they delivered.

[–]reese_ridley 18 points19 points ago

we're made of star stuff

[–]Camizow -2 points-1 points ago

Read in Carl Sagan's voice. :) Edit: Accidentally spelled his name wrong. Feelin' the shame.

[–]-Hastis- 9 points10 points ago

Blasphemy! He misspelled his holiness name!

[–]MrGreenapple 5 points6 points ago

We should burn down the embassy of a random country that has no relation to him now, right?

[–]-Hastis- 2 points3 points ago

Of course, because Carl Sagan never told in his holy books that Correlation doesn't equal Causation (I know, it's a stretch)... oh wait he did.... No embassy burning then... ='(

[–]MrGreenapple 1 point2 points ago

Disappointing. Everyone knows how we atheists love to violently destroy things when we are insulted.

[–]sirwatermelon 1 point2 points ago

Like keyboards as we beat on them furiously in our #atheistrage.

[–]smarty_skirts 5 points6 points ago

I'm printing this out and putting it in a file somewhere labeled "When I die" -I want this read at my funeral!

[–]helalo 6 points7 points ago

dat energy

[–]SuperDestructo 8 points9 points ago

Sorry to be the wet blanket here, but am I the only one who doesn't find this comforting? It's not the physical deterioration that makes death painful for loved ones, it's the fact that they will never be able to interact with them again and that the deceased cannot enjoy life any more. "All the energy and vibrations of the departed are with you and we're all made of star stuff." So what? The matter that made up my body might be destroyed, but everything that made me me will be. It's no different than if I were alive as a vegetable, never to recover.

[–]Jo-Diggity -2 points-1 points ago

There is a difference between death and the end, my friend. You exist now even though at one point you didn't, doesn't that suggest that you are more likely to exist in some form of consciousness once more after you die, than you are to die and never exist again?

[–]SuperDestructo 3 points4 points ago

I think you're on the wrong board to discuss consciousness after death...

Consciousness is made up of a bunch of electronic pulses and chemicals in your brain. Without those, your consciousness ceases, as do you. So will I ascend to another form of consciousness after my brain has shut down and decomposed? I see no evidence to suggest that I will.

[–]TheCollective01 1 point2 points ago

I think I know where he's going with this. Before you were born, there was no evidence that you would have existed. Before the spark of life began, there was no evidence that there would have ever been life at all. So who's to say the idea that there is some sort of higher consciousness isn't plausible, just because there's no evidence for it?

[–]SuperDestructo 1 point2 points ago

You just addressed the reason why I don't believe in that. Until there is evidence for it, I'm not going to find it plausible. I don't think there is some mystical otherwordly super-consciousness that we come from, because what makes consciousness is largely reliant on your brain and various electronic pulses and chemicals.

Consider how easily the mind is swayed by chemicals. I've seen someone become a completely different person from mental illness. Tell me, if he dies before he gets better, which consciousness lives on? The sane one or the insane one?

[–]Jo-Diggity -1 points0 points ago

This board objects to the idea of prescribed religious ideology. This is a discussion about consciousness.

You spoke of the physiology behind consciousness. Let's go with the idea that consciousness is a result of hardware, and can boiled down to 1's and 0's.

0 = off; not existing, unconscious

1 = on; existing, conscious

Your claim states that 0 manifests from 1. Starting at birth (1), we are alive and conscious, and when we die(0), we shut down and cease to be be aware for the remainder of time. A perfectly reasonable claim, one many agree with and I respect that 100%.

My claim is that 1 manifests from 0. Starting before birth, we emerge from 0 to become 1, and then become 0 again after life ends. This leaves open the possibility that we can become 1 again after going back to 0. I'm not saying that's what happens, I'm saying in my claim that it's possible.

I'm also not saying you're wrong and I'm right. I would like to convince you to entertain this possibility as one of many, for I think that there's a benefit in keeping your mind open to all possibilities. It's a depressing notion to think that we go away forever. Heaven might be a fairy-tale, but that doesn't mean that an eternity of nothing is the only other option.

[–]SuperDestructo 0 points1 point ago

Let's go with the idea that consciousness is a result of hardware

This is the key idea. If I had a lot of important data on a computer and you threw it into a wood chipper, would you ask me to entertain the idea that my data might be floating around in some sort of ether? No, the parts are destroyed beyond repair; that data, like consciousness, is gone forever. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

I would like to convince you to entertain this possibility as one of many, for I think that there's a benefit in keeping your mind open to all possibilities.

All possibilities, you say?

[–]Zaph0d42 5 points6 points ago

Ah, but this makes a fundamental mistake. What "we" are is not the constituent matter, not the body that we walk around in. No, we, conscious, intelligent beings are just that, a consciousness, and nothing more. The body is just a case, a machine we use to manipulate the world according to the consciousness's will.

And sadly, when the consciousness can no longer be supported, it is truly gone.

Keeping the matter around is about as useful as saying "Hey, your Grandfather died, but we still have his amputated arm living in a jar! So he's still alive!" Nope. Those are just parts of you.

If you lose your arms, are you less "you" ? Are Quadriplegics missing part of their essence, their mind, or their soul? No. Absolutely not.

So the body may die and it matters not at all. Your body is not who you are.

You could lose your entire body and be a brain in a jar, and you'd still be "you". If we could transfer your consciousness to a machine, we could do than and then "kill" your body, and you'd still be "alive". So your body really isn't who you are. What you are is something different, something aware. A personality.

On the bright side, if a single butterfly beating its wings can cause a hurricane, imagine what the things you've done will cause. Every action, every word you've ever spoken, effected someone, who then effected someone, who then effected someone. Everything we do constantly cascades out and effects reality. Those effects, that cascading ripple, will NEVER, in the entire history of existence, EVER go away. What we have done has forever changed and will forever continue to change reality. Each one of us, though we may pass, will effect the universe forever.

[–]notworthwhile 1 point2 points ago

Aside from your bright side, I'm right with you. I don't ascribe to the belief that a butterfly can literally cause a hurricane, but everything before managed to capture all of my thoughts entirely. Kudos.

[–]aroondeep 0 points1 point ago

Marshall Erikson will go mad reading the last line.

[–]LtStiles 1 point2 points ago

Right in the feels

[–]FranBunnyFFXII 1 point2 points ago

Wow that is amazing...

[–]YehergenShmergen 3 points4 points ago

I'm sorry, but I can't figure this post out. Is it sarcastic or what? Does anyone here believe those things would actually comfort anyone?

[–]thetheist 0 points1 point ago

I understand what's going on here, so I'll be happy to explain it to you. The word "energy" has two definitions that are being abused and conflated here.

Here's the first sentence. You actually don't need to read beyond this to understand:

You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died.

The first "energy" is a reference to the physical property of energy. This is something that can be measured in joules, essentially. The second "energy" is spiritual mumbo jumbo and meaningless drivel. "Your energy" has no real scientific meaning. Imagine that you went to a psychic and she said, "I can feel your energy." That's what this "energy" is.

The author of the quote is a journalist, not actually a physicist, but he is a smart enough guy that he is likely intentionally misleading the reader because he thinks that the non-religious would be happy to find comfort in spirituality.

But most of us here read the first energy as the physical property, and the second one as "whoop-de-fucking-doo who cares if your energy doesn't die. are we going to make our cemeteries into power plants?".

Just imagine that the target audience for this is your strange hippie aunt who did acid one too many times in her youth, and it'll make perfect sense.

[–]EricTboneJackson 10 points11 points ago

You crashed your car? Its OK, all its atoms are still there!
You have no water to drink? Its OK, water is just energy and you're surrounded by energy!
You ran out of gas? That's OK, all the energy from the gas you burned is still in the Universe!
Your child died? Its OK, the energy that made him will go on forever.

Conservation of energy is not comforting. I don't give a fuck if the matter/energy that made up a loved one still exists, I wasn't in love with his/her atoms, I was in love with the precious configuration of that matter/energy which gave rise to a singular consciousness. It's that I miss, not the matter/energy.

[–]BuddhaLennon 1 point2 points ago

Yeah. Heaven or hell or entropy or stripper factory, dead is gone.

[–]ArenBonner 1 point2 points ago

"You're just less orderly". I'm sure a religious person would laugh at this, but I thought this was truly beautiful.

[–]FluffsMcKenzie 2 points3 points ago

Seriously, more beautiful than anything I've ever heard at ANY religious based funeral.

[–]LongAssAnecdotes 9 points10 points ago

TLDR: The most beautiful thing I ever heard at a funeral came out of a 'childrens' book.


Not too long ago, one of my favorite teachers from high school passed away. It wasn't a huge surprise, given his age, but it was a major blow - he and I had always talked about getting together for a day outside of school, going for coffee, and just shooting the shit.

He was, if anything, unorthodox in his teaching methods: he was not afraid to get loud, to be ridiculous, to be stern, or to step in and defend. He was, as I'd heard more than one person say, 'an old-school motherfucker.' Above all else, at least when he was on the job, he was a teacher, in the most literal sense of the word.

On my first day of class with him (the last class of the day), sophomore year, he pulled me aside after the bell. "Your name is (last name)?" He asked, much more a statement, but still checking having seen it both on his list and on my emergency info card.

"Yes sir," I said, knowing what was coming.

"Your mom and dad are listed as (different last name)."

"My mother remarried," I replied.

"Is your father (dad's full name)?"

I confirmed that he was. It was the only reason I had known what to expect. I had heard countless stories (and have a few of my own, now) about this man growing up - a man who had graduated, got his teaching degree, traveled around to a few different notoriously 'troubled' schools before returning to his own high school and settling down - that it was something like meeting a grandfather I'd never seen. He had something of a reputation for singling out 'the diamond in the rough' for every class. In '79-'83, that was my dad: '04-'08, it was me.

He put a huge, gnarled, hand on my shoulder, and had to bend down to look me in the eye.

"I want you to know, no matter what happens at this school, if anyone ever messes with you, or you ever need help, you have an ally."

He was the first teacher to be so utterly frank with me about being a resource for help, and the first to tell me to my face that he could see through my shit - and he did. My emotional masks didn't work with him, and when I got into trouble - whether other teachers knew it or not - he was there to pull me aside and check in with me, or just make sure I was doing alright.

He always referred to me by last name, and made it clear to me that he would not accept anything less than his highest expectations of me. I became one of his easy favorites, always 2-3 weeks ahead on my assignments, always attentive, etc.

My father called me one day while I was out with friends to let me know. He'd heard through my teacher's son, on facebook of all places. The funeral was set for just a few days later. Cancer. He didn't tell anyone he was getting treatment, or that he even had it, until the very end.

I dressed how I thought he would have liked to have seen me dressed for the event, and accompanied my father. The funeral home was crowded with hundreds of people, and cars were lined up down the street for lack of parking. Many more sent their regards and well-wishes. This was a man who had, with a rough-edged approach and a gruffness that sometimes had people comparing him to a troll, influenced thousands of lives for the better.

The cancer had eaten him up: he looked strangely small in the coffin, and the mortician hadn't done the best job with the makeup, but there was no doubt who it was. Those scarred, blunt-tipped hands were the same. It was the second, maybe third, time I've ever seen my father cry.

I felt my eyes water many times as an endless stream of people came up to the front to speak and share memories - his family, people who had been on teams he'd coached, and many, many students. Every time I felt like I was about to cry, it was like I could feel him sitting nearby, up on a shop stool, arms crossed and laughing. "What's wrong, (last name)? Don't tell me you're gonna cry." I'd just smile instead, shaking my head.

I was doing alright until the last speaker came up, and finally, after all else, read his eulogy - the final part of which was the last few paragraphs of 'The Watership Down.'

I lost it - after hearing so many people speak, I couldn't help but feel it was the perfect analogy for the influence he'd had on so many. It has always been one of my favorite endings, both for its mythic feel, and the way it neatly wraps up everything heroic and wonderful about the protagonist into one, big, meaningful punch-in-the-heart. Even as the tears rolled down my face, swearing under my breath, I still felt like he was laughing - one last "gotcha!"

Maybe it's silly, I don't know - I'm crying as I type this, partially because how much that ending has always hit me, but a lot because I'm so glad I got to meet the man, be a student under him, and be a living testament for two generations of how much of a difference a good teacher can make in a kid's life. I still harbor some guilt over never going back to visit him - some part of me kept saying, "I'll make plans. I'll call." The final lesson he taught me in death was that if there's someone who really matters to you, make the time now. One day it's going to be too late.

I miss you, Mr. M - and I'm sorry we never got to get that coffee. Thank you for being in my life, my father's life, and the lives of so many others.

[–]necromancerdc 0 points1 point ago

Quote?

[–]LongAssAnecdotes 1 point2 points ago

I can't seem to find my copy (probably at my mom's house), but thankfully I was able to get the last two pages though 'look inside' on Amazon. I should warn you - the ending will likely not have a lot of impact for those who have not read the entire book, as context is what really gives it its oomph.

Spoiler alert - for those of you who haven't read the book, the whole story long, you hear short tales about what is more or less the god-prince of rabbits, a being who our version of b'rer rabbit and various Lepus trickster gods is implied to be based on. His stories of escape, survival, cunning, etc. are a lifeline for the rabbits to one another, a kind of shared culture of inspiration, hope, prankishness and heroism above and beyond the norm. These stories are interspersed with tales of the Black Rabbit (their death spirit) and the actual story of The Watership Down in which the rabbits are on an exodus to escape man-made death and find a new home, facing many trials along the way.

At the end of it all, when a new warren has been established (mind you, after an epic journey, many struggles, death, narrow escapes, but through all of it their leader fighting for them, for others who are afraid to fight, or too weak, or small, etc), the epilogue closes the story by showing that after a lot of hardship, all the sacrifice has payed off: a new generation of rabbits has been brought forth, living in peace, happiness, and relative safety. There is a line; "And sometimes, when they told tales on a sunny evening by the beech trees, he could not clearly recall whether they were about himself or about some other rabbit hero of days gone by." which is referenced in the movie when Hazel - the protagonist - passes by some much younger rabbits telling a story about the prince of rabbits (god/prince), and it is recognizably one of the adventures Hazel and his companions had on their journey. The implication here is that all the stories you've heard are true, all tales about past heroes that became myth, and so survive by adding the lives and great deeds of the dead into one anthology about the best, most exemplary rabbit. Their legacies live on through the living, who remember their actions, and teach their own young. The very last bit of the book, which was read at the funeral, was this:

One chilly, blustery morning in March, I cannot tell exactly how many springs later, Hazel was dozing and waking in his burrow. He had spent a good deal of time there lately, for he felt the cold and could not seem to smell or run so well as in days gone by. He had been dreaming in a confused way - something about rain and elder bloom - when he woke to realize that there was a rabbit lying quietly beside him - no doubt some young buck who had come to ask his advice. The sentry in the run outside should not really have let him in without asking first. Never mind, thought Hazel. He raised his head and said, “Do you want to talk to me?”

“Yes, that’s what I’ve come for,” replied the other. “You know me, don’t you?”

“Yes, of course,” said Hazel, hoping he would be able to remember his name in a moment. Then he saw that in the darkness of the burrow the stranger’s ears were shining with a faint silver light. [1] “Yes, my lord,” he said. “Yes, I know you.”

“You’ve been feeling tired,” said the stranger, “but I can do something about that. I’ve come to ask whether you’d care to join my Owsla [2]. We shall be glad to have you and you’ll enjoy it. If you’re ready, we might go along now.”

They went out past the young sentry, who paid the visitor no attention. The sun was shining and in spite of the cold there were a few bucks and does at silflay [3], keeping out of the wind as they nibbled the shoots of spring grass. It seemed to Hazel that he would not be needing his body any more, so he left it lying on the edge of the ditch, but stopped for a moment to watch his rabbits and to try to get used to the extraordinary feeling that strength and speed were flowing inexhaustibly out of him into their sleek young bodies and healthy senses.

“You needn’t worry about them,” said his companion. “They’ll be all right - and thousands like them. If you’ll come along, I’ll show you what I mean.”

He reached the top of the bank in a single, powerful leap. Hazel followed; and together they slipped away, running easily down through the wood, where the first primroses were beginning to bloom.

(Richard Adams, The Watership Down, p.480-481)


[1] This should be obvious, but it's one of the identifying traits mentioned repeatedly through the book for this mythic figure.

[2] This word means something like 'officers' or 'lead rabbits.' It's basically like if Jesus/Odin came down to collect you personally instead of the reaper, and asked you to come be one of his personal friend/soldiers.

[3] Eating/nibbbling

[–]GreenPlasticJim 2 points3 points ago

I want a speaker of the dead at mine.

[–]Keksi 0 points1 point ago

*Speaker for the dead FTFY

[–]Popcom 2 points3 points ago

The energy, and atoms may not be destroyed, but you are. I don't get why this would be so great at your funeral. Death sucks, and is final.

The person is still dead. Their memories, hopes, dreams, love, all gone. What physically made them isn't "gone" but why does that really matter? What made them who they were, what defined them as a person, an individual, the very reason for the love you bore, is gone.

If this gives you comfort for the inevitable end that's great, but IMO this line of thinking should be a rally call to enjoy life, and be grateful for the time we have and those we share it with.

[–]Jo-Diggity -1 points0 points ago

The point is that nothing is truly gone. All the parts that make up your life will continue to exist after death. If given enough time, these parts will reform to create other realities that you can be a part of. There is even a slight chance that they reform to create this exact reality again. The longer time goes on, the greater the chance that we get to see today's reality in its exact physical form. If time goes on forever, and the transformations we see continue on forever in that time, this small probability becomes a certainty. There's no guarantee of this of course, I threw out some big "if's" there, but there is so far nothing in this process of life, death, and time that suggests finality, and that is the good news.

[–]Kitzie 0 points1 point ago

The person is dead, but their energy's influence is not. The point I see being made is that the influence can even be measured, and not just believed to have existed. Finding comfort in that the person's energy "lives on" is just one way of grieving. It's a way of releasing the person as transformed energy, rather than just dead and gone. There are many ways to grieve; I happen to find this comforting when thinking of those I have lost.

[–]ebertd83 0 points1 point ago

I couldn't help but tear up the entire time I read that. It demonstrates what draws people to religion and the supernatural in the first place: a fear that something or someone you love could completely abandon you by dying.

[–]Ody0genesO 2 points3 points ago

No. I'm not going to have a lecture on physics at a funeral. I also don't want any preachers lecturing my science classes.

[–]d3pd 2 points3 points ago

Death of a loved one is rarely something to be happy about. To be unhappy about it is to accept reality. Let this unhappiness at the thought of losing people drive us not to embrace death, but to conquer it.

[–]secular_bride 2 points3 points ago

This is exactly why I created /r/secular_ceremonies, to collect these sort of quotes. I'm saving this one.

[–]Nicholas0817 0 points1 point ago

Subscribed. Thanks!

[–]dakdestructo 2 points3 points ago

Fuck you science. These are just excuses for why I'm not immortal yet.

[–]cam_pete 2 points3 points ago

im sorry but the only thing i was thinking the whole time is that it is highly uncommon for your parents to attend your funeral...

[–]DannyVinyard 0 points1 point ago

This is so inane. This should not be comforting, at all, to any logical person. If you find this inspiring, it probably means you're stupid.

[–]manuel_robot_cleaner 5 points6 points ago

I'd like a person who doesn't repost to speak at my funeral.

[–]EscherTheLizard 2 points3 points ago

I read the very first sentence, and I slightly cringed because it seems disingenuous to equate the totality of a man to his baser elements, especially in this context.

[–]BuddhaLennon 0 points1 point ago

Why disingenuous? Materially speaking, this is what we are: atoms and energy.

[–]EscherTheLizard 2 points3 points ago

I don't believe in a soul, but I do know that life and human beings are greater than the sum of their parts. Atoms and energy alone are nothing special in my estimation. They are ubiquitous throughout the universe. It's the combinations of these things that makes a difference, especially between living and non-living things and thinking and non-thinking lifeforms. I feel like this eulogy trivializes that and coming from an atheist (I assume as much since it was posted in /r/atheism) seems like a slap in the face.

[–]Harabeck 2 points3 points ago

Nothing is lost; be still; the universe is honest

Time, like the sea, gives all back in the end,

But only in its own way, on its own conditions:

Empires as grains of sand, force as coal,

Mountains as pebbles. Be still; be still, I say;

You were never the water, only a wave;

Not substance, but a form substance assumed.

The last two lines there being the most relevant, of course. I am not the atoms and energy that comprise my body, I am the specific form of those components. When you think about it, there are probably very few bits of me left from when I was a child. Those atoms have been replaced, yet my existence was continuous from then til now. The atoms that were your body when you died just happened to be there at that time.

[–]dadtucks 1 point2 points ago

A person is not just a set of atoms. A person is what we call a particular sequence of configurations of atoms.

[–]stop_resisting- 0 points1 point ago

New desktop Background.

[–]Joolio 0 points1 point ago

This is more beautiful a sentiment than any provided by religion.

It also has the plus of being true.

[–]tlaloc23 2 points3 points ago

"Hey, it's okay that your loved one died because now energy is being released as his tissue decomposes." -Somebody

"So the fuck what?"-My reaction, if I were hearing this in the eulogy of somebody I care about.

EDIT: Convince me that the laws of thermodynamics are a "good" thing, and I will be closer to accepting your consolation. I need evidence that this person's energy is being put to good use.

[–]AaronHolland44 2 points3 points ago

You need evidence energy is being put to good use? There is no 'good use' for energy in the universe, there is only use.

[–]tlaloc23 1 point2 points ago

Right. I don't think there is any evidence to support a claim that energy is put to good use either. So, referring back to the original post, why should it matter that my energy is being recycled?

[–]AaronHolland44 2 points3 points ago

When you die the universe smiles and uses your energy to bake cookies. Is that better?

[–]tlaloc23 2 points3 points ago

Perfect. Put it in my eulogy.

I like cookies.

[–]AaronHolland44 1 point2 points ago

Hey, who doesn't? Unless they're macadamia. Fuck macadamia.

[–]BuddhaLennon 2 points3 points ago

Is this any better or worse than "Your loved one is in heaven, singing with the angels"? Or the more likely alternative, given all the prohibitions and proscriptions in the bible: "your loved of is experiencing a soul-rending torment that will continue for all time because the translation your church chose to use got something slightly wrong."

At least the physicist's speech is true. I will be burried in the dirt, to rot and return to the universe that gave me life. All that I am will end, save the impressions I have left on others.

[–]ColdShoulder 1 point2 points ago

I will be burried in the dirt, to rot and return to the universe that gave me life.

In fairness, you won't return to the universe. You are already a part of it.

[–]AaronHolland44 1 point2 points ago

Touche

[–]BuddhaLennon 1 point2 points ago

Fair comment. Only, once dead I've officially capitulated to entropy.

[–]EricTboneJackson 4 points5 points ago

Is this any better or worse than "Your loved one is in heaven, singing with the angels"?

Define "better". More comforting? The outright lie is probably better on that score, hence the popularity of religion.

More truthful? They're both bullshit. Saying "your loved one's energy cannot be destroyed" is a shameful bit of equivocation. When we speak of a person's "energy1", we're talking about the vitality of the person's personality, their consciusness, that ephemeral thing which we refer to as a "person", which is not atoms they're made of (or the energy5 they contain), but an emergent property of a particular arrangement of atoms.

I could give a fuck that their atoms (and therefore energy5) still exist, the person (i.e. a particular arrangement of atoms) is gone forever.

Two different means of the word "energy", deliberately conflated in an empty-headed, New Agey bullshit way.

[–]tlaloc23 0 points1 point ago

Sounds about right.

[–]tlaloc23 0 points1 point ago

The statements about thermodynamics are accurate. And yeah, I do not believe that the alternative statement about singing with the angels is accurate.

But I don't understand why this leap between accuracy and truth is being made: that leap being made where we accept the conclusion that it is a good thing (or not a bad thing) for this death to have occurred, and for the energy which was contained by the body of the deceased to be released back into the earth that nourished it.

[–]Ask_Them_Why 0 points1 point ago

Why I am dead before my parents? This is life, and that's what happens. Instead they should talk about they life I lead. My impact on relatives, friends, community, humanity and world in general. Hopefully there's something good to be said.

[–]rdhotchilipprs84 -1 points0 points ago

Apparently physics doesn't think you'll outlive your parents...

[–]jtCuevas 1 point2 points ago

The E.N.D.: The Energy Never Dies

[–]Rayman8001 0 points1 point ago

That. Is. Beautiful.

[–]strineGreen 0 points1 point ago

Do you* ftfy

[–]tylerd3 1 point2 points ago

...and in the end all of our energy will endure the fate of the big freeze.

[–]lezapper 1 point2 points ago

got something in my eye...

[–]Amryxx 0 points1 point ago

Well, being an orthodox Muslim, no one's going to give speeches at my funeral. We're not fans of impromptu modifications to the prayers.

And I'm dead anyway, what do I care? You can have orgies on my grave as far as I am concerned.

[–]sirwatermelon 0 points1 point ago

You can have orgies on my grave as far as I am concerned.

Can we hold you to that?

[–]Amryxx 0 points1 point ago

Well, I am worm food. At that point, what am I going to do, rise from the grave?

(if I do manage to do that though, I hope the ladies in said orgy aren't bigoted against the vitally-challenged)

[–]d3pd 1 point2 points ago

Yeah, but they don't get to meet their loved ones again, do they? This is emotionally manipulative, meaningless drivel.

[–]sirwatermelon -1 points0 points ago

Indeed but it sounds much better then "THEY ARE FUCKING DEAD! You will never see them again, EVER! They have been OBLITERATED! Hope you said what you needed to BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FUCKING HEAR YOU NOW!" which is the raw truth of the matter. If there is ever in life a time for nice sounding lies, half truths or gibberish it's when we have to burry our own.

[–]gnualmafuerte 1 point2 points ago

I don't think lying helps at all. Deal with the pain when the time comes, and move on. Tricking yourself into believing nonsense is not the way to go. Also, people are terrified of being sad. And they are terrified of other people being sad. They feel the need to console you. Why? Let me cry, let me fall in despair, let me suffer, let me be sad, when I have a good reason. The death of a loved one is reason enough to be as sad as a person can be. Why would you rob someone of that moment? There, there, it's not so bad? Yes, it is. Now stop lying to me and let me be sad, it's part of life. I'll get over it, I'll move on, but now I have to cry. "Don't look so frightened, this is just a passing fade, one of my bad days"

[–]d3pd 1 point2 points ago

If there's one time when one shouldn't be given manipulative platitudes, it's when a loved one dies. Why do I say this? I say this not because sadness and absolute despair are good things, but because they are a psychologically appropriate response to an awful situation. Don't misunderstand me; people shouldn't be treated in a heartless manner and should be given friendship and assistance when they lose someone, but masking over what are genuine and appropriate emotional responses is psychologically unhealthy.

On a more grand scale, let this unhappiness at the thought of losing people drive us not to embrace death, but to conquer it.

[–]KyleDrewAPicture -1 points0 points ago

Come to think of it, it would make me feel better if someone told me this after losing a loved one :)

[–]omgnomgnome 0 points1 point ago

I'll be dead and beyond caring. No matter what I wish, my relatives will do what they damned well please. They'll stomp all over my will, they'll do whatever Jesusy thing they want, they'll say things about me that they think are true, but are not. And I won't care, because i'll be dead.

I just hope that someone takes in whatever pets I leave behind.

[–]LunchMasterFlex 0 points1 point ago

If you do it right, your parents shouldn't be at your funeral...just sayin'.

[–]DashingLeech 1 point2 points ago

It's a great quote, but I'm not sure I completely agree with its sentiments. It only refers to the mass and energy of a person, yet these aren't what make you you. You likely don't contain any molecules you had in your body even a year ago (and certainly many more than you had as a child). Same idea with any energy you contain.

Rather, it is the information pattern that makes you you, and as the quote states at the end, that information is lost when you become less orderly.

However, there are some good copies of parts of that information still around. They are in the minds of your friends, family, and acquaintences. They've created a model of you in their head and it continues to affect the world through them. And each one of them has a little unique bit of you that others do not, from their own personal experiences with you.

That, to me, is what I want spoken at my funeral.

[–]WalterWhite_Jr 0 points1 point ago

One of my favorite quotes from any movie was from The Day The Earth Stood Still:

"Nothing ever truly dies; the universe wastes nothing" -- Klaatu

[–]Londonsawsum 0 points1 point ago

Damn...Just as I learned my friend from middle school committed suicide a few days ago...

[–]kalimashookdeday -1 points0 points ago

Fuck that NdGT quote. This was fuckin bad to the motherfucking ass. To the mother fucking max.

[–]scout124 -1 points0 points ago

I just lost a friend, and this made me cry a little. It also made me feel a little better.

[–]Akhotnik 0 points1 point ago

How is possible there are hundreds, possibly thousands of faith based musicians and artists, yet no one sings, writes poetry, and paints about our universe!?

[–]hezod -1 points0 points ago

This is gorgeous.

[–]stewedyeti 1 point2 points ago

If a physicist speaks at my funeral he better not use British thermal units as a measure of heat. We have SI units now for a reason.

[–]alittler 0 points1 point ago

Thinking Atheist podcast?

[–]Roommates69 1 point2 points ago

Am I the only one who doesn't want to die before my parents?

[–]midwesternliberal 1 point2 points ago

THANK YOU! I scrolled all the way through hoping someone else noticed this. The mother/father thing was weird.

[–]Thonarr 0 points1 point ago

My grandmother just passed away so this hit me right in the feels. Not even gonna blame the onions.

[–]hydrohawke 0 points1 point ago

Goddammit /r/atheism

I'm just about to leave you and then you go and come up with something like this

[–]teachmetonight 0 points1 point ago

This is lovely, but I plan on outliving my parents, thankyouverymuch.

[–]craybatesedu 1 point2 points ago

Maybe I'll have someone who isn't obsessed with the illusion of immortality speak at mine.

[–]liberterrorism 1 point2 points ago

Personally I wouldn't want a priest or a physicist speaking at my funeral, or anyone else who didn't know me personally.

[–]ronconcoca -1 points0 points ago

"your energy has not died" yeah sure...

EDIT: my problem is with the word "your"

[–]factionleader 0 points1 point ago

That was great.....but why the fuck am I dying before my mother?

[–]caostheory 1 point2 points ago

This post was so much more exciting when I thought it read "want a physic to speak at your funeral?"

[–]xmagusx 0 points1 point ago

Makes me think of this bit from Third Rock From The Sun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDG0yBe4goY

[–]ehazkul 0 points1 point ago

cant read from the thumbnail. soooo sick of space backgrounds.

[–]jsimon8 -1 points0 points ago

love this, want to make a will just to put this in it right now haha

[–]YossarianAarfy 0 points1 point ago

I think my mother would be more comforted to hear that I was in heaven. Sorry to interrupt circle jerk

[–]BTabbey 1 point2 points ago

I highly recommend listening to Aaron Freeman reading this in his own words. I still remember hearing this the day that it originally aired on NPR. It resonated with me so much that was so moved transcript, printed it out, and have kept it in a safe place. I still read or listen to it when I lose someone close. As a scientist, I have found it one of the most comforting musings on death.

[–]dadtucks 0 points1 point ago

When my loved ones die, their underlying sets will remain the same, but they will have the discrete topology, and that will be worth crying about.

[–]kent0036 0 points1 point ago

"How can we honor the memory of a man like Leonard Hanlin? Well... [long pause] He was governed by the laws of physics, as are all living things. It is a scientific fact that hearts and clocks slow down as they approach the speed of light, the point at which matter is converted into energy. Dr. Hanlin's heart approached that speed on Friday evening at 7:57, according to the coroner, converting his matter into energy - into pure, white light. Though he is no longer with us, he is all around us."

-Dick

[–]craigsanders 0 points1 point ago

I saw an interview with the real-life Morrie from Tuesdays With Morrie. This was just a short time before Morrie's death, and the MS had progressed to the point that Morrie knew he was going to die soon. The reporter asked him whether he was afraid of ceasing to exist or not. Morrie responded with a story about two anthropomorphic waves. I can't find the actual clip at the moment but the story goes something like: A wave is going along, minding its own business, when it notices that it's being pushed into the shore, where waves ahead of it are crashing and disappearing. The wave begins to freak out, and becomes incredibly sad that it's going to very clearly suffer the same fate. At that moment another wave passes by the initial wave, also minding its own business, floating along happily. The First Wave calls out to the other, and warns it of their inevitable demise. The Second Wave seems not very upset by the news. The First Wave says "how are you not freaking out right now? You're about to stop existing in just a few moments. What's wrong with you?" The Second Wave responds "Don't you get it? I don't exist right now. Neither do you. We're both just part of the ocean. After we crash, the water that comprises us is still here, the beach is still there, the ocean, which we are, is still here. New waves will form and crash, and there's nothing any one wave can do about it" The First Wave realizes the Second Wave is right. They crash.

This is kind of how I feel about death. If we consider the universe as a whole, and the fact that we are all part of this one object, it takes the edge off of the idea of death when you realize that the object of which we are all part, will still be around long after we pass. While it's very easy to think of ourselves as separate from each other, and from inanimate objects, distant planets and stars, from cats, from laptops, and from the silicon in your mother's fake breasts, we are all part of the same underlying substrate: the universe. That which comprises us, forms us, binds us, and ultimately destroys us, that which is us, and is everything else, isn't going anywhere.

Edit: sorry about the bad grammar. i'm bad at grammar

[–]DarkAncelot 0 points1 point ago

I don't care what happens in my funeral, you know why? because I'll be dead.

[–]efrique 0 points1 point ago

I care now, because I'd like the people who bother to turn up not to have a shitty time while they do it.

So one thing is I'd like mine to be short. Say a few words, say I was crappy if you feel the need, maybe play a little music, nuke whatever's left of me, bam, outta there and have a couple of drinks or go watch a movie or play Settlers of Catan - whatever sounds like fun.

I won't care at the time of course, but the idea that people will put up with being bored rigid for a couple of hours? I don't need that.

[–]efrique 0 points1 point ago

Given the piece of shit minister that spoke at my grandfather's funeral and took it as an opportunity to proselytize, saying barely a word about the man in the coffin, or indeed anything pleasant at all, I'll take a Sagan or a Krauss or a Tyson at mine, no trouble at all. I'd think it was the greatest thing ever. I mean, especially Sagan - how many people get a zombie at their funeral?

At least they could be relied on say something uplifting and interesting, rather than miserable, shallow and self-serving.

[–]Austinangelo -1 points0 points ago

I'm a christian. This is beautiful.

[–]dkz -1 points0 points ago

This is deeper than any religious eulogy you'll ever hear. I want a physicist to speak at my funeral.

[–]phedman 0 points1 point ago

I thought that it was eerily profound

[–]WhitePostIt 0 points1 point ago

We are stardust, and to dust we shall return.

[–]neogenesis38 0 points1 point ago

I thought the idea behind the reasoning in this is cool. But it was the last lines that were unsettling. The post says 'you'll just be less orderly.' "The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it but the way those atoms are put together."

[–]TheIrateGlaswegian 0 points1 point ago

All of the funerals I've ever attended in the past have been a priest talking for half an hour about religion, followed by a pitiful 2 minutes dedicated to the deceased. I'm not a big fan of this.

So I had a Humanist speak at my dad's funeral. Religion wasn't mentioned once. Stories were told about my dad, and had everyone laughing. I'm smiling just remembering it. Everybody that attended came up to me afterwards and told me it was the best funeral they had ever been to.

[–]SyntheticSocks 0 points1 point ago

Gene Ween said that?

[–]yomish 1 point2 points ago

Based on the speed that the universe is expanding, there actually will be an end to all atoms and all matter. So we won't all go on exisisting "forever," as the universe will eventualy approach absolute zero and all subatomic particles will break apart.

See here

[–]supermunkey91 0 points1 point ago

May I request hologram Carl Sagan please?

[–]Fourwindsgone 0 points1 point ago

this is beautiful and similar to what I was telling a friend earlier. Thank you.

[–]HydrogenxPi 0 points1 point ago

Dear God, not this picture again. Lol at all you stupid fucking atheists making up science just like the religotards do.

[–]catailcataclysm 1 point2 points ago

I want a speaker for the dead to speak at my funeral...

[–]crimsonking1 0 points1 point ago

i posted the same thing without the cool background and got 4 upvotes :(

[–]lhommealenvers 0 points1 point ago

Just one thing, Aaron Freeman : I prefer to die AFTER my parents.

[–]thateenageatheist 0 points1 point ago

Heard this on the Thinking Atheist. :)

[–]BurningFishies 0 points1 point ago

This is incredible.

[–]Tr0llphace 0 points1 point ago

i'd say I want one of the notable scientists of today to speak at mine, except I intend to outlive them.

[–]clearsimpleplain 0 points1 point ago

Ray Bradbury wrote something once about how the light from the Earth will keep travelling through space forever; so if someone with a super powerful telescope a million light years away were to be looking through it a million years from now, they'd see the people who were alive today playing baseball, weeding gardens, living, and in that way we live forever.

[–]Monkey_D_Keroro 0 points1 point ago

i wish i could upvote this some more

[–]Mr_Dr_Prof_Derp 0 points1 point ago

Well there is heat death sooo

[–]AdamRouse 1 point2 points ago

scientific proof of reincarnation right here.

[–]androidmonster 0 points1 point ago

And this is very lovely. <3

[–]Itwas81andIwaspunk 0 points1 point ago

Recall Roy in Blade Runner as he speaks his final words:

All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

I lost my father to cancer far too soon this past year. I think of all his memories and experiences throughout his 59 years that were his and his alone, completely subjective and the sole property of his mind. I still carry the times we had together but like his memories, it's just energy in a mind creating what we experience as consciousness.

Yes, the effects this energy has will ripple throughout time and will leave a permanent effect on the order of existence. But when you see static on a television, do you see order?

There's nothing to interpret, no emotional response, no different than the energy scattered from a beloved's moments in time.

We lose something very human at death and to see what was once your father become no more than static is depth of emotion that is rarely reached. While beautifully stated, cold logic isn't an appropriate approach to one in grief, regardless of their religious stance. In months and years, yes.

[–]Gangstuh_Nugget 0 points1 point ago

I hate seeing these kind of posts. Energy is not the same as having a concious. Sure your pieces are still flying around everywhere but what good does that do to anyone? You're still dead and can't experience the world no more.

[–]smoothchaos 0 points1 point ago

"Your sobbing mother"......??? We lost him at a young age.

[–]ThatKendoGuy -1 points0 points ago

Somehow the widower transitioned from man to woman O.o

[–]cryptobomb 0 points1 point ago

Honestly, that's just too much. If you let that guy speak at a funeral you can be certain that everyone will be pissed as hell. This pretentious bullshit doesn't belong at a funeral where people grieve and say good-bye to their loved one as she or he were. I'm all for science and against religion but if that guy showed up at my dad's funeral he'd be eating grave stones.

[–]energirl 0 points1 point ago

I want a physicist to speak at my funeral..... because he's my only sibling and my best friend.

[–]vocabulator9000 0 points1 point ago

I was saying something very similar, earlier this week on another Reddit post.

I would rather go where THESE people are going. If that is simply back to dirt to eventually become some new form like a sedimentary layer, or earthworm poop that gives nutrient to plants that feeds people or animals who haven't died yet. That is pretty cool to me. The energy of my atoms will not cease until the universe collapses in on itself or some other universal scale event. I may never again be conscious of my existence but I am still a part of the universe that is AMAZING. The energy of my atoms has always been and will always be. It simply became conscious of itself at one infinitesimal moment. If there really is some kind of (As yet unexplained)phenomenon driving the order that exists in life and even in chaos, then that phenomenon is already in me and I don't need to earn its acceptance.

I like when smart people say interesting stuff that I have realized as well.

[–]calger14 0 points1 point ago

No. I would just want them to know the truth.

[–]tibiafibula 0 points1 point ago

Jeez I hope my mom ISNT at my funeral

[–]GoldenWreckage 0 points1 point ago

So is nobody going to ask the question of why the physicist is explaining all of this to my parents? Or did I miss somebody in the comments who picked that up as well?

[–]richertai 0 points1 point ago

Ill say the same thing that I said last time. Its not the particles that we mourn but their configuration. We mourn the loss of a point of view and perspective that emerged from that ever-shifting configuration.

[–]sn0m0be 0 points1 point ago

Love this.

[–]Jellyfishrythum 0 points1 point ago

Sounds good to me as long as they have more of a heart than Sheldon cooper

[–]BuddhaLennon 2 points3 points ago

I wonder if this is supposed to be a theists poke at atheists, or a sincere statement by an atheist. Either way, I really like it, and I would like a physicist to speak at my funeral. Only there would be no pulpit. That's for preachy bastards to look down on people from.

[–]AaronHolland44 -1 points0 points ago

Shameless plug: r/pantheism

[–]LiFeWaStEd7 1 point2 points ago

Read this in my Chemistry class this afternoon, teared up like a little bitch

[–]Blistero 0 points1 point ago

Me too, although I was nowhere near a Chem class.

[–]mrkreeg 1 point2 points ago

I'd want the physicist to explain why my spouse got a sex change in the middle of my funeral...

[–]planetyonx 0 points1 point ago

This is stupid. Your particles and energy are arbitrary and your consciousness no longer exists.