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Help Atheist Organizations! Voting is done: SSA: #47 with 4387 Votes FBB: #56 with 3162 Votes CC: #81 with 2248 Votes Thanks to all who voted! (full results)
Voting is done:
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God's Law (i.imgur.com)
submitted 3 days ago by Prizoner35
[–]Nemocyte 84 points85 points86 points 3 days ago
The analogy's interesting but fuck that would make a good sci-fi movie
[–]Corrinth 59 points60 points61 points 3 days ago
You might be interested in reading George Orwell's '1984' if you haven't already done so.
[–]heb0 29 points30 points31 points 3 days ago
And follow that up with Brave New World. Both books are great, but I feel like Brave New World is a bit more thought-provoking.
[–]JaredOfTheWoods 8 points9 points10 points 3 days ago
We by Yevgeny Zamyatin was the forerunner to both of those books
[–]heb0 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago
Thanks! I'll make note of that one. :)
[–]TheOneFreeEngineer 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Its a harder read though, engineers are not the best writers
[–]boardin1 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago
Add in Fahrenheit 451 and you've got yourself a real party.
[–]heb0 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
...and, after that, read Anthem to round it out!
(just kidding, don't read Anthem)
[–]Zhumanchu 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Follow those up with Perdido Street Station or Embassytown for a more modern take of dystopia.
I found Brave New World to be hard to read. Not a fan of Huxley's style - feels very stiff once he starts discussing his ideas. Worth it for the thoughts, through.
[–]Corrinth 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Haven't read that one. I'll add it to my list.
[–]kngkeeper 7 points8 points9 points 3 days ago
Seconded. Amazing book.
[–]TH0UGHTP0LICE 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago
No no no, just read the Newspeak dictionary. It's double plus good!
[–]DragonTycoon 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
I feel so depressed when I read that book, and watch 2001. Makes me feel like we've progressed so little...
[–]Beasty_Glanglemutton 6 points7 points8 points 3 days ago
I was gonna say the same thing, only it sounds to me more like an '80s action movie. "They tried to give God a raw deal...nobody gives God a raw deal". Title on black: God's Law. November 15th.
[–]bluebroham 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dreadnought
I know it's a nerdy tabletop game, but I immediately thought about the Dreadnought's backstory.
[–]JamiHatz 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Ha, same. *high five
[–]paradoxburn 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Welcome to cyberpunk, where every form of media is about this.
[–]Gh0st11 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
Lol, "but fuck".
[–]rkyeun 138 points139 points140 points 3 days ago
Bad analogy. They don't shovel you into a furnace to incinerate you.
They give you an immortal robot body. That feels infinite pain.
[–]owlsrule143 24 points25 points26 points 3 days ago
Good enough though. Point is, hell is ridiculously harsh and heaven is unrealisticly too-good-to-be-true.
[–]slightly_bald 25 points26 points27 points 3 days ago
Read through the Bible sometime. You'll find that most the things you think you know about religion are entirely made up. Heaven and hell are barely mentioned in the Bible and hardly described. The rapture is really part of post-millennial dispensationalism, which is a fancy term for "we searched through the Bible and found this code".
Half of the stuff posted on here cracks me up because it shows that there really isn't that many people in the world who have actually read a Bible.
[–]hex_m_hell 7 points8 points9 points 3 days ago
The concepts of heaven and hell come from Zoroastrianism... these concepts don't really exist in Jewish tradition.
[–]kingbane 4 points5 points6 points 3 days ago
kingdom of god is mentioned a fair bit in the new testament. and the stories about jesus mention it quite a bit. course if you're talking the bible as a whole then yea... the word heaven or mentions of heaven aren't nearly all that often. the bulk of the old testament are weird rules and oddball stories about shit that never happened that's supposed to teach you something about god. either that his wrath is awesome, or that you have to act a certain way.
though if you step away from literally meaning that heaven isn't mentioned often, there is a subtext for heaven in a lot of the bible. all the threats and anger shit, mentions of rewards etc.
edit: follow up, if i remember right actual mentions of heaven in 1 way or another is a little under 300 times? not entirely sure but it's somewhere in that vicinity.
[–]JustAMinuteAnHourAgo 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Kingdom of God doesn't actually refer to Heaven specifically, but a state on earth in which there is peace and people live they way God wants them to. (from a Catholic background) like the mission of Jesus' followers is to build the Kingdom of God. other mentions of heaven and hell are also open to interpretations, but some. like everlasting life, really aren't, so let's just call this a draw
[–]kingbane 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
i wasn't entirely disagreeing with you. it's all up to interpretation to be sure. the bible is quite long and it goes ALL OVER the freaking place.
[–]Dritte 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Most of it is not even interpretations... Most of it inferences. For example, I will save you and give you everlasting life.
People take this to mean: Well, I am saved, so I still exist. I have to exist somewhere, with this new found eternal nature. I guess that place is heaven. Then, they try to glean what ever else they can from scattered verses to support their claim.
[–]owlsrule143 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago
I admit I haven't really read it
[–]slightly_bald 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
I have and it's a mess. And it's a big part of why I'm an atheist today.
[–]Daedatheus 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago
You're absolutely right, but remember that this is a refutation of existing beliefs, not necessarily the bible. If a huge number of people believe ridiculous concepts about the existence of heaven & hell, it is worth the refutation whether or not it's in the bible to demonstrate just how ridiculous it all is. More Christians could stand to learn what's in their own scripture.
[–]MiaowaraShiro 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Does it matter if it's in the bible if people believe it to be true anyway?
[–]SingularityGuy 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
But that is what is taught. It doesn't matter what is written, if that is not what people believe. Not many religious people follow what is written in the bible anyway.
[–]ThatIsMyHat 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
To be fair, I'd be pretty mad at Christianity if it were anything at all like how /r/atheism imagines it to be.
[–]sparr -12 points-11 points-10 points 3 days ago
We (evangelical atheists) care less about what's written in the bible(/torah/koran) and more about what people of those religions believe/do. The fact that the two are so completely out of touch is just more fuel for hilarity / sadness.
[–]complex_reduction 7 points8 points9 points 3 days ago
... evangelical atheists ...
Seriously?
Evangelical: Of or according to the teaching of the gospel or the Christian religion.
I mean, yeah, it is synonymous with "zealous enthusiasm" but ... seriously? That's the image you're trying to put across? That atheists are zealots?
[–]philogos0 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
I think it was a combo of parody and a term to describe our passion for reason. Anyway, it's all just words. Take from them what you will.
Edit: seriously.
[–]Human237 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
The term does make me throw up a little in my mouth, but I considered that a personal problem.
[–]sparr -6 points-5 points-4 points 3 days ago
Would you prefer evangelistic?
Evangelism: the practice of relaying information about a particular set of beliefs to others with the object of conversion.
[–]gmick 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
An eternity praising and worshiping some petty, selfish and insecure "god" doesn't sound too-good-to-be-true to me. Sounds more like Hell and Hell.
Many atheists, myself included consider the supposed Heaven to be a terrible place. Interestingly, based on passages mentioned in the bible, someone did the math and found out that hell is about 450 degrees C and heaven about 550 C
[–]crazyjkass 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
The mean cubic area between a new-born infant and an adult is about 1/20th metre; the bulk of the damned above is equal to the mass of a sphere of radius 705,504 metres; that of the earth is 6,366,200 metres...
I'm getting a kick out of this.
[–]Fernando_el_Justo 5 points6 points7 points 3 days ago
I heard that your soul is cast into the lake of fire along with the Devil and all his followers and you're just done existing whereas if you're down with Jesus and all you get to go to heaven for eternity.
But who knows what's true? Everyone seems to say something a little different.
[–]I_like_your_reddit 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
That is true. God doesnt just want to shove you in a furnace. He wants you to suffer forever.
[–]inoffensive1 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago
I was raised Christian, and it was always explained to me as "eternal death," as in, you die and spend eternity dead instead of chillin' in Big G's Hood.
[–]rkyeun 13 points14 points15 points 3 days ago
Luke 16:22-24 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’”
Jesus seems to disagree with you about the nature of Hell.
As I was taught (which may or may not be biblically accurate, I admit), torment happens until judgement day, and when all souls are judged and the old world passes away and the new world takes its place and eternity kicks off, hell gets snuffed out and is no more forever.
[–]rkyeun 11 points12 points13 points 3 days ago
Revelation 20:7-10 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Hell continues after the apocalypse and judgement.
Matthew 18:8 "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, and be cast into the eternal fire."
Jesus says the fire is eternal.
[–]andersontucker 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
That sounds pretty far-fetched.
[–]inoffensive1 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
...
I'm confused. Were you expecting rationality from religious people?
[–]Popcom 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
JW's still don't believe in hell despite this lol
[–]traffician 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
thanks for being the first person to clue me into the j-dub disbelief in a literal hell. that really blew a hole in a major assumption.
They consider use of the name Jehovah vital for proper worship. They reject Trinitarianism, inherent immortality of the soul, and hellfire, which they consider to be unscriptural doctrines. They do not observe Christmas, Easter, birthdays, or other holidays and customs they consider to have pagan origins[…] —WP
the furnace to incinerate is just there because so many "moderate" christians claim that their version of hell isn't eternal torture it's just separation from god, and for christians that's torturous. there's also another bunch that say you just get annihilated out of existence so long as you were a good person.
the furnace is there to get around the fact that alot of christians make up extra shit to try to justify the utter cruelty and inequity of heaven, even without hell.
[–]rkyeun 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
I know why apologists don't believe the Bible, and how they justify pretending they do.
[–]kingbane 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
true, just saying the furnace is there to put the lighter side so some christians can't discount it outright by saying "well that's not fair i dont believe in torture hell bad thingy!"
[–]rkyeun 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
To the extent they don't believe the Bible, I will applaud them for bring less Christian.
i dunno... the less christian christians kind of annoy me. it's obvious they dont believe the whole bible so why keep calling themselves christians? they muddy the crap out of it to make it more inclusive so they can fool more people into their religion. just be honest about it, their beliefs are batshit crazy stop trying to sugar coat it so it's less batshit crazy. at least the crazy hardline christians are honest about their religion and their beliefs. the "moderate" one's are just lying to themselves mostly. it's not entirely their fault of course, there's a certain level of brainwashing and cognitive dissonance involved. it just irks me.
[–]Alexi_Strife 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Also I would assume the robot people would be walking proof that faith in the government gets you the loot.
I see the point this is trying to make, but I'd gladly convert to scientology if it meant I got a sick, immortal robot body...WITH CHAINSAW ARMS.
[–]tlaloc23 11 points12 points13 points 3 days ago
Yeah, Pascal's wager is totally spiritual extortion. Whether extortion is bad, I'll leave to more capable moralists.
[–]juggernaut1107 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago
Humans are greedy, violent animals. If anyone understands where to judge a human, I could only suggest the thing that created us.
[–]tlaloc23 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago*
You know what, I'll agree with you. But I'm left with my inability to accept that suggestion, because I have no evidence which leads me to the conclusion that such an entity exists.
That being said, I'm left wavering. At this point, it seems there is nobody who understands where to judge a human.
[–]juggernaut1107 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
I agree. I don't see any possible way to judge a human. I feel like there's something beyond our conscious understanding, as a guess. I've had some pretty mind-shattering ideas while stoned out of my mind.
[–]tlaloc23 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
I guess that's a possibility. But it won't help us order society.
And there are plenty of ways to judge a human. I just doubt that any of the theoretical approaches to justice are "accurate" the way a theory of thermodynamics or gravitation might be.
[–]juggernaut1107 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
"When freedom and opinions exists, there will never be complete order in the world."
-juggernaut1107
[–]tlaloc23 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Yeah, but I can't even find a suitable framework to justify the belief that "freedom" and "opinions" are fundamentally good things. Sure, I like having them. But so what?
If anything, I'd say it's not even close to a good thing. You give voice to people who don't think for the good of the world, or otherwise think on behalf of their religious views; your result is chaos.
But I wouldn't suggest to silence them. It's just the wonders of our world.
But what does the good world look like? If I knew that, or just knew somebody who I was suitably sure does have that knowledge, I would be set. I would know exactly what needs to be done, exactly how people should be judged.
Religions offer that. Or, at least, religious institutions offer that. Confidence in personal and societal direction. That's pretty compelling stuff, speaking pragmatically.
You shouldn't feel responsible for that kind of thinking/judgement. I see my job as a human to help as many neighbors in as many ways as I can. Make everyone's life better.
Religions don't always offer that. I am, however, proud to state that I found a church relatively recently that offers exactly that. It spreads the message of acceptance and peace above everything. I believe my preacher's vision of the world is the closest thing you could come to a "good world".
And believe me, I'll be the first to tell you that every church attendee will tell you that about their pastor. But I have respect for all humans, in many different ways. A good world consists of individuals that put their neighbors ahead of themselves.
That's the closest I can get to describing a good world. Pretty unrealistic, right? And I can't even begin to awe myself over the complications that politics would bring.
[–]kilo4fun 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
We evolved our moral framework as social creatures. It's a common misunderstanding that humans are the only creatures that possess morality. We're just the only ones who possess a concept of human morality. Other social creatures have their own social codes and do met out punishment or rewards based on following their own codes.
[–]Ajinho 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
equally true when replacing
freedom and opinions
with "the human race"
You know, I always wondered what it truly meant when the bible states that man was made in god's image. If not in body, then it is easy to see why humans are so selfish, jealous, and violent. Because they are just like god.
[–]juggernaut1107 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
That's a depressing thought. Most atheists would just laugh at your face and say there is no God.
Are you a different denomination of atheist?
I do not believe that there is a god, because there is no evidence for god to exist that I can see. I guess you could call me a deist, if I'm using the word correctly, but even though I don't believe, I do enjoy having debates under the assumption that god is real.
But at the same time, you only eat up everything atheists say. The only thing that enables you to believe that they're more educated than the average person is the fact that they don't believe in God. Strangely enough, for argument's sake, you also assume they're right in everything they say about God.
I think an equal scenario in my shoes would be to head on over to my church and ask someone if I should become atheist.
I am not more educated than the average person. I am more reasonable and logical than the average person. Logic dictates that I shouldn't be basing heavy decisions on strong feelings or voices in my head. I don't believe in Santa Claus for the same reason I don't believe in god. Santa might exist, but believing in him is irrational. God might exist, but I'm not going to believe in him until he gives me some real, tangible evidence. And he hasn't.
[–]Irrelephantless 6 points7 points8 points 3 days ago
Wait...you get a robot body?
I want mine to be a Marilyn Barbo-bot..with chainsaw hands.
[–]fearloathingwpb 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
I'm gonna be an Adrienne Barbeau-bot
[–]RICH_LITTLE 9 points10 points11 points 3 days ago
Fuck yeah I want a robot body that would be awesome.
[–]natholomew 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
I'm sold on the smile that would be frozen on my face despite my emotionless state. Not creepy at all!
[–]Blitztwist 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
I picture it like being Bender with out the few sad parts. Just black jack and hookers.
Well, do I have a video for you! [http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/596083]
[–]TH0UGHTP0LICE 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
O'Brien: What are your feelings towards Big Brother?
Winston: I hate him.
O'Brien: You must love him. To obey him is not enough. You must LOVE him.
[–]LittleBitTX 6 points7 points8 points 3 days ago
All I could think was "CYBERMEN"!!!
[–]Mrcopolo199 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
DELETE DELETE DELETE
[–]Really_Hates_Canada 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago
Sounds like Canada.
[–]the__itis 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
Isn't this just Christianity without Christ?
[–]I_like_your_reddit 9 points10 points11 points 3 days ago
It is Christianity, including Christ. God is the government, Christ is the figurehead. If you dont worship the figurehead, you get punished forever.
[–]the__itis 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Not really, this is saying if u ever doubted the government (doubted Christ). That's not analogous to Christianity.
[–]I_like_your_reddit 11 points12 points13 points 3 days ago
Ahh, yes, the widely practiced version of Christianity where accepting Christ's claims of divinity and salvation are totally optional.
[–]the__itis 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
I meant the biblical version where even Peter denied Christ 3 times ;)
[–]I_like_your_reddit -1 points0 points1 point 3 days ago
You can doubt all you want, but if you dont accept Christ you will suffer forever. Nice job on twisting the op to fit your weak argument, though.
"if you have questioned the government" there is no equivalent stipulation in the Bible, further supported by the example given. I advise you not to pursue a career in law ;)
[–]I_like_your_reddit 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
TIL Christians dont have to accept Christ to be "saved" .
being saved permits doubt according to the bible
[–]not_a_duck 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Romans 24:22-23 - Hast thou faith? Have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
[–]Pileus 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
You know, it's the position of a certain denomination that while Jesus is a certain path to salvation, it's not necessarily the case that Jesus is the only path to salvation. That particular denomination is the Roman Catholic church. In addition, encyclicals like Redemptoris Missio are very friendly to the theology of universal salvation (i.e. everyone goes to heaven), and Pope John Paul II was noted for his benevolence toward the concept.
So while it's a very easy and comfortable claim to make that all Christians believe that you must accept Jesus as Your Personal Lord and Savior™ or else you get a one-way ticket to Brimstone Resorts for the next eternity, it's not a correct one. It is quite possibly the case that most Christians do not believe that doctrine; it is for a fact not the official doctrine of the single largest denomination of Christianity, and Orthodoxy tends to have equally nuanced views of soteriology. People preaching fire and brimstone in the 21st century is a largely Protestant thing.
[–]I_like_your_reddit 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
Tht isnt true at all. They dont believe his death and ressurection alone is the path to salvation, but they most certainly believe that accepting Christ and his commands is necessary.
Also, just because pushing threats of hell is no longer popular in the mainstream church doesnt mean it suddenly isnt part of the religion. You remind me of people who try to claim that the Bible isnt anti gay.
[–]Thunder_Dan 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Yes, but you can still have doubts. I think you forget that they forgive doubts if you ask for it. And doubting Christ isn't only doubting his existence. You could doubt teachings or advice given, but you would still be expected to perform even if you doubt. The whole unconditional faith thing.
[–]F0RTRE55 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Now imagine a world where government didn't exist. Analogy completed.
[–]Grumpy_Atheist 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
Or, imagine a world where the government doesn't invade the privacy of your mind, and doesn't torture you for thinking the wrong thoughts.
The argument isn't that government or order is bad; the argument is that government needs limits and a little more of a logical thought process. I hope this helps.
[–]HarryPalmsBlueBalls 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Fuck yes!
[–]raspberryrocket 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
1984
[–]Bitingsome 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
It's also the west in another 20
[–]tartarusdepths 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
This is actually a very clever way of phrasing the inherent contradiction of Christianity and classical liberalism. I'm going to show this to my friends who think Obama is a dictator; see how they react at the end.
[–]Audiovore 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Relevant video, Yahweh is a psychopath.
[–]Zugzwang522 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
This analogy is fucking perfect
[–]mrwalkway32 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Yeah. Cause it's been ALMOST a month since this was last re-posted.
[–]CarmeTaika 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
If I'd known reposts were this much of a karma farm, I'd be doing it too.
[–]heterosapian 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Personally: I'd happily support a corrupt government regime to get an immortal joyous robot body...
[–]Lastchimp 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
it's clearly more appealing than dicking around on a cloud, playing harp in white snuggie
[–]KDIZZLL2 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Too bad satan is the god of this world and he hates humanity, do some research atheists.
[–]malevolentduality 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Why does Satan hate humanity? I would think Satan would hate God more. Thus, would love more human souls to help him destroy god's heavenly kingdom.
[–]KDIZZLL2 -1 points0 points1 point 2 days ago
He hates the Creator and everything he created(humans/animals).
[–]malevolentduality 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
Based on what concrete evidence? Did Satan appear to you and specifically said this?
The concrete evidence is all around you.
Subjective.
[–]bastianbalthazarbux 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago
YOU JUST GOTTA BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[–]heyfockhead 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Dr.Who episode..
[–]dfc1987 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Because its GGGGOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDD
[–]Captain_Aizen 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Sorry, you lost me at 'dystopian' : (
[–]berserker87 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Dude. Immortal robot body? Fuck yeah.
[–]CGeeryProjected 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
That actually sounds great!
[–]Card_Captor_Sakura 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
OP didn't even mention the one free get out of hell card some church goers hand out.
Live a life of sin and redeem card to enter heaven.
[–]svenniola 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
thats a really great point.
[–]MineTorA 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
That's God's law? Interesting
[–]Charles_H_Bronson 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Robots? WUT?
[–]timlars 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
I'd actually like it that way. Shame it's impossible.
[–]zoodpy 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Wait a tic. No one ever mentioned I'd get a sweet robot body. Ive made a huge mistake.
[–]painperdu 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
God can take his stupid heaven and stick it up his ass!
[–]superpastaaisle 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
This sounds like a pretty sweet deal actually.
The issue is that God doesn't exist, not that it is such a terrible thing to go to heaven for leading a good life.
[–]PacoTaco321 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Most governments are heavily flawed as well.
[–]OompaLoompa4Life 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Is...it?
[–]c0nques7 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Do you even understand Christianity, or is just what you've "heard" from redditors?
[–]waltdisneysbambi 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
warhammer 40k - I thought about how that universe could be an example of technology surpassing religion, time passes but then those things use technology to starts killing the fuck out of everything just like before, so then religion is reinstated to keep moral and organization. its like the two switched places.
What I learned from a fictional universe: things will kill each-other regardless and thats interesting. it didn't matter if tech was their god or some deity.
[–]videogameboy76 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Bad analogy - there would be tangible proof of immortal cyborgs/imprinted robots.
[–]rude_awakening 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Is that metropolis in the first picture. Ah and with the pateiot act we're halway there.
[–]Crackerpool 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
You had me at immortal robot body.
[–]HarleyBrooke 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
I didn't think it was that bad... Until it was compared to religion.
[–]ashleytylerbree 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
Cybermen anyone?
[–]coyote1284 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
You are incompatible. You will be deleted.
[–]TheRedditor560 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
That's to Catholics. You probably don't care but I myself am a Baptist. So that would mean yeah we can do nice things but It won't get us to heaven. What Catholics believe isn't in the Bible. For Baptists the only way to get heaven is to accept that Christ is the saviour
[–]coyote1284 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
I'd take simply being 'incinerated with the trash' over being turned into a Cyberman, but the appropriate analogy would be that they would transfer your consciousness to a simulation where you are constantly being tortured for disagreeing.
[–]Ghostmuffin 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
That kind of does sound like the government. They would do that if they could.
[–]lastlambda 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
That first picture is a shot from the movie Metropolis, a movie made in the early 1900s. I only know about it because /r/movies had a post about it being restored recently, thought that may be a nice fun fact as the movie looked pretty interesting.
[–]Mad_V 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago
Who the fuck would not want to feel pain Or sadness anyways? This has always confused me so much. What is happiness without sadness? If there is no such thing as sadness than how can there be happiness? I like sadness. I like pain. I like feeling human. Good without bad isn't good at all, there can't be one without the other.
[–]larpas 12 points13 points14 points 3 days ago
I find this to be a stupid argument. When you're happy, you don't compare it to your worst experiences. You compare it to how you feel on average.
Hypothetical scenario as an example:
"Yay I just got promoted! This is so much better than when I found out my wife was cheating on me!" No. That's not how it works.
Think of happiness as a spectrum. 1 is very unhappy. 5 is normal. 10 is very happy.
You can experience happiness without sadness to compare it too.
[–]emsharas 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
While that's an interesting point, the problem is when you are incapable of feeling anything below a "5" i.e. incapable of being sad, then the scale shifts to only cover the range of 5-10 with a "5" experience being your worst experiences. In other words, your happy memories will still be compared to your worst experiences. This then raises the question, what is sadness if not the simple comparison of your best and worst experiences? A 7.5 experience would then be your average, normal state.
[–]dudley-vs-mothy 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
I was thinking about this the other day. I agree with your whole scale thing. I was also thinking, say we actually cracked immortality like robot bodies or whatever, would we still be alive? Life is the opposite of death, so if we can't die can we still live? Or would we simply just exist?
[–]SiS-Shadowman -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 days ago
Actually, I only know that I feel happy exactly because I feel better than during my bad experiences.
[–]Lilyo 4 points5 points6 points 3 days ago
That's not true. You know you feel happy because the brain releases certain chemicals that your body likes and that stimulate you in certain ways. You are biologically happy. When you're sad your body releases other chemicals that affect your differently.
What he said is true. You know you are happy, cause you feel different than when you are sad or normal, not because of what your body is doing. The biological processes cause the symptoms of happiness, but without comparing it to other feelings, we wouldn't really know the value of happiness.
[–]Itisarepost 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Couldn't an omnipotent being just make you always feel happy? Heaven doesn't necessarily need the same rulebook as earth.
[–]nxtm4n 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Happiness and sadness are caused by, essentially, the same chemical reaction: dopamine and serotonin. Sadness is low levels, and happiness is high levels. Orgasms release lots of these chemicals. These hypothetical robotic bodies would constantly be feeding the brain slightly high levels of dopamine and serotonin, with the amount increasing over time as your brain gets used to the previous levels. Thus, you could in fact be completely happy, all the time, without sadness.
[–]Zenith042 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
It would eventually require more dopamine than your brain's dopamine receptors can handle.
[–]Blindocide 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago
not if you're a heaven robot.
[–]nxtm4n 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Cybernetics can fix that!
[–]Help_I_Lost_my_face 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Freaking repost... still get an upvote.
I don't believe you...
[–]canadianIBslave 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
I like the first pic (referance to the 1927 movie "Metropolis")
[–]juggernaut1107 -1 points0 points1 point 3 days ago
If only we actually knew how God dealt with non-believers. What if this whole time He's actually been sending everyone to Heaven.
It would definitely be an awkwardly pleasant conversation at the pearly gates.
[–]kechuchuchu -1 points0 points1 point 3 days ago
That does sound like the perfect government.
[–]owlsrule143 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
This is really really really old, but not only has it been a long long time since I've seen it, but it's fucking awesome so have an up vote
[–]deja-vu-comment -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 days ago
.
[–]octonana 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
I would like benders body and possibly personality or programming
[–]aceoftrachs -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
Burn!
[–]mariobro18 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
the analogy is interesting but flawed
[–]Italian_Barrel_Roll -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
Shit... I sorta liked the idea of this and then got to the end >.<
[–]Dormant123 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
I don't care that this is a repost. We need this posted here every week so we can be reminded to use that as an argument.
[–]JMarburger -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 days ago
dude, nice. something new in r/atheism! I am impressed
[–]fosterco -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 days ago
Cause the Bible says "question God/religion and you go to hell"....where?
[–]Meanas 5 points6 points7 points 3 days ago
Even if questioning God doesn't get you to hell, there are plenty of other silly things that will get me there.
[–]fosterco 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Then a silly story board can be made about that and discussed. Why make things up then?
that's the only unforgivable sin. so you can start looking there. google?
[–]fosterco -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
Thanks, I did google it. The only unforgivable sin seems to deal with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, or, to put it another way, to actively reject the Word of God in your heart. This doesn't seem the same as questioning.
[–]Blindocide 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
a rational discourse!? in my reddit?
it seems to be that you are correct, at least for the time being. I'll have to ask my ex-fundie friends whether or not the bible says questioning god is a sin.
i did google and found that what you said, that not accepting Jesus, is unpardonable. which, yeah. is like, the basic tenet of the whole thing.
[–]fosterco 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
A pleasure to discourse with you sir!
[–]afropologist 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Who said anything about the Bible?
It said God's law. Presumably this has something to do with the Bible, as it is the word of God. Where else are you getting God's law?
[–]afropologist 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
I see no reason to believe that anyone actually receives "Gods law" since I see no reason to accept the claim that God even exists let alone that he has given laws to people. But I can answer the question of where I think people are getting the beliefs which they have in regards to the laws of this supposed god:
1). Subjective interpretations of any number of theological texts other than the bible, but also including it.
2). scripture-independent theological discourse.
The latter being a far more common source.
It doesn't matter what the bible (or any other theological scripture) actually says. What matters is what people interpret it to say. A great many people have interpreted the bible to say that you must accept God or burn in hell. I read this post as calling that idea into question.
Well, yeah, but the Bible still seems like the primary source.
And I think there's a big difference in questioning and actively rejecting.
I agree with you that there is a big difference between questioning and rejecting God. Unfortunately there are plenty of people whose subjective interpretations count them as one and the same (i.e questioning God = showing pride toward God; showing pride toward God = sinning; sinning lands you in hell; therefore questioning God lands you in hell). Not saying that it's an acceptable or accurate interpretation of the bible or any other theological text, but it is a common enough line of thinking to warrant criticism.
Then it would be perfectly fine to point out the foolishness of people who took such drastic steps to forbid people trying to learn more about the workings of their religion. That's where the criticism belongs, not in general attacks against Christianity as a whole.
[–]afropologist 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Sure, it would be. But that's not happening here. Relevance?
What's happening here is a gross misstatement about Christian beliefs in order to achieve cheap points. So I think a discussion about those misstatements is very relevant.
You seem to think that there is some homogenous body of belief that can be generalized as what all Christians think about divine law; and since the post does not represent what you understand that belief to be, you find it to be a "gross misstatement about christian beliefs". The problem with that is there are lots of different interpretations of biblical doctrine (and not just among Christians but also Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Bahai's, etc.) and one quite common one is the notion that questioning god = hell-worthy sinning. This post questions that notion specifically. It does not say that that is the only interpretation, and it does not say that it is what all Christians think. Therefore it is not a gross misstatement of the beliefs all Christians in general, but a criticism of a popular and very specific mode of thought.
And again, biblical ≠ christian necessarily.
You cannot possibly be that stupid, this has to be a troll.
Sorry, not a troll. Don't recall Jesus being averse to people asking him questions. He answered quite a few.
[–]I_like_your_reddit 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
He didnt mind questions, but if you didnt accept his answers you would be sentenced to eternal torture.
[–]fosterco 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Yeah, that sounds exactly like Jesus. I remember him threatening people with eternal torture a lot.
Read the book of John sometime.
I have. And while I know it has a more philosophical feel to it at times, I've never seen anything that sounds like threats of eternal torture. If you had any verses I'd be interested.
for one, take the much loved "john 3:16" and keep reading. What happens to those that don't believe? This theme repeats throughout the book.
While it is true that Christ himself never directly threatens with eternal torture, the New Testament is full of examples of the kinds of people and actions that will disqualify one from entrance into heaven. And we all know what the alternative is. So when he says you will not receive salvation, he is saying you choose hell by rejecting him.
Yeah, but that's more about stating fact than threatening. I know there might not seem like a difference sometimes, but he is not saying nor even closely implying "do this for me or I will do this to you."
It is exactly the same. Hell exists for a reason, and it is the only alternative to heaven. Unless you somehow accept that this all powerful creator of the universe made everything except hell, and that there is nothing he can do about it. Just because Jesus doesnt directly threaten people doesnt make him a great guy, it just makes him a passive aggressive asshole. Especially considering that he and "the father" are one and the same. "let me save you from what I am going to do to you"
[–]Vranak 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
When is /atheism gonna graduate to reading Nietzsche and Kierkegaard I wonder.
[–]dudebot 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Well the thing is, God is not a government. He is the embodiment of all that is good in humanity. He cannot sin. Wouldn't you want a world that lived under the Ten Commandments?
Just my opinion feel free to object.
[–]devious83 -2 points-1 points0 points 2 days ago
Stop referring Christian god as god. Here is the real God: Everything in existence was created by God, and all life is, is a way for God to experience each individual aspect of Gods creations. So when you want to do all kinds of fucked up shit, as long as you are being yourself and giving it all your heart, you are doing it right. You can be good, bad, or anything in between, doesn't matter it is all the creation of God. Enjoy every aspect of it. So to refer back to the OP, yes a Christian God like this exist, but only because we are choosing to experience that aspect of the grand creation. ;)
tldr: God is you enjoying whatever you makes you feel good.
[–]myusernameranoutofsp -6 points-5 points-4 points 3 days ago
I'm pretty sure Christianity implies that God is a perfect being, making this whole argument irrelevant. I'm basing this on a few scholarly Christians' opinions, and I know there are tons of different theological theories on the subject, but I'm pretty sure a great majority of them imply that God is a perfect being.
This becomes: Imagine a dystopian future, where you have a pretty cool dad that isn't wrong about anything and gives you a hand when you are in trouble...
I'm an agnostic atheist, I just think this is a bad argument.
[–]chirs3 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
Imagine a dystopian future, where you have a pretty cool dad that isn't wrong about anything and gives you a hand when you are in trouble...
Unless you are gay or don't believe in him.
[–]heb0 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
But this exactly what the above image describes, friend. Except we like to think of him as our big brother. :)
[–]repr1ze 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
The image above implies that said government is not perfect. Besides, if there was an all knowing perfect government that made no mistake, why wouldn't I support it?
I would state my religious/non-religious affiliation but I'm sick of that being a requirement for not getting downvoted.
Besides, if there was an all knowing perfect government that made no mistake, why wouldn't I support it?
I'm glad you came around, friend. It is all for our own good. :)
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